If you were to fight in a war.

[D1337]

What war would you fight in? It doesn't have to be well known wars, it could be small skirmishes between 3rd world countries. Also add why.

I would personally want to fight in WWII. It was the last major war before countries started using cheap tactics, such as bombs, nerve gas, napalm, mostly automatic weapons.

yes, i know WWII involved 2 nuclear bombs, and a few automatic guns that could be carried.

Plus if i was ever wounded or died, from a gun shot, I would be content with it because most likely my killer had a great deal of skill and it wasnt from some fool who ran around shooting from the hip.

Basically everyone supported the war, unlike today. If i went to war i would be wanting support from the people in the states, not people questioning if going to war was the right thing to do.

Environment, I may not live in Europe but from what ive seen the place looks beautiful in every season.

I could keep on making a list but i dont think most off you would read it all =/
BTW <3 Band Of Brothers.

[simon275]

Interesting thread.

I would maybe be a British SAS operator involved in the rescue of British Hostages held by the West Side Boys in Sierra Leone. As it was as successful operation.

Or maybe a member of the # 1st Special Forces Operational Detachment-DELTA and take part Operation Just Cause hunting down Noriega.

And just to represent my county been a member of the Australian SAS and been involved in Battle of Tora Bora.

I really prefer modern war and would be a special forces operator.

Although flying a A-10 Thunderbolt II in the first gulf war and knocking out some tanks would of been cool.

[Bucko]

I'd want to be involved in The War Against Terrorism, simply so I could say I'd been involved with TWAT.

[xRyokenx]

I'd want to be involved in The War Against Terrorism, simply so I could say I'd been involved with TWAT.

Damn Straight. lol :D

That and most of those too involved in it just so happen to be that too, lol.

[Luke122]

War of 1812.

No further comment. ;)

[DaveW]

This is an interesting thread, but at the same time, a lot our members are ex soldiers who may, upon reading this, be very offended.

War isn't something you should want to be a part of. If it's a matter of standing up for your rights, and saying "What cause do you believe in enough to go to war for", then I would be all for your question.

As it is, it seems that your question poses nothing more than an almost childish desire to kill things, or possibly the dreams of a serious adrenaline junkie. Either way, I wouldn't be surprised if you soon discover you've offended a lot of our members.

However, despite the possibility of a flame war, i'm not going to lock this thread for the simple reason that TBCS has proved, again and again, that it can handle a discussion like this; so instead, i'm going to ask you simply why you want to be in any war in the first place.

Oh, and another thing. This:


Basically everyone supported the war, unlike today.

Is possibly the most ignorant statement I think I've ever heard another human being utter. Do you honestly think men who were torn away from their families, drafted into a war to fight an enemy they never knew, supported the war?

Threads like this destroy my belief in the human race.

-Dave

[xRyokenx]

I'm actually trying to ignore the war, not because I"m stuck up or anything, but because whenever it's brought up in a discussion/debate, it always turns into an argument, it's too controversial for me to really touch. But yeah, from what I can imagine (I think it's quite accurate... otherwise I wouldn't say this), war really is hell... I'd hate to be in one and my sympathy goes to those directly involved (and in command of those) with combat...

[Bucko]

I think most everyone would actually respect and support the troops (past and present) and their families throughout this time of war.

It's the reasoning behind going to it in the first place that stirs up the debate and can be a touchy subject.

I wouldn't want to go to war because I'm a conscientious objector (read: too damn scared to go fight).

[D1337]

I see in no way could this offend a war veteran, unless some starts making jokes about wars, but that would be his childish fault and not due to the topic. Plus im not making anyone read this thread, if you have a strong feeling towards war then by all means you dont have to read any post in the topic.

I never said lets go around a fight each other pointlessly. All wars have a reason. Im talking about fighting in a war to protect your country, its citizens and your right.

I have no desire to kill anyone or anything, but i would if they posed a threat to me or a civilian. I didnt even mention whether i wanted to be someone on the front lines, a medic, a pilot, etc.

Why would i want to be in a war in the first place?
Read above.

During WWII If you werent over in Europe fighting, then most likely you were in a factory producing goods for the army,navy etc.
If people didnt support the war, do you really think they would be producing goods to fuel it? Ask any WWII veteran whether they think that fighting in that war was the right thing to do.

How do you not know your enemies? We knew what was happening in Europe, long before we got into the war.

Both my granddad's fought in WWII and i respect them. One was drafted the other joined to help stop the plague that was destroying countries and murdering innocent people.

PM me if you want me to destroy your belief in the human race more, otherwise you might as well lock it for going off topic.

[Airbozo]

What war would you fight in? It doesn't have to be well known wars, it could be small skirmishes between 3rd world countries. Also add why.

I would personally want to fight in WWII. It was the last major war before countries started using cheap tactics, such as bombs, nerve gas, napalm, mostly automatic weapons.

yes, i know WWII involved 2 nuclear bombs, and a few automatic guns that could be carried.

Plus if i was ever wounded or died, from a gun shot, I would be content with it because most likely my killer had a great deal of skill and it wasnt from some fool who ran around shooting from the hip.

Basically everyone supported the war, unlike today. If i went to war i would be wanting support from the people in the states, not people questioning if going to war was the right thing to do.

Environment, I may not live in Europe but from what ive seen the place looks beautiful in every season.

I could keep on making a list but i dont think most off you would read it all =/
BTW <3 Band Of Brothers.

Couple things on this;

No I would not _choose_ to fight in a war, but if forced, I would choose a war that had honor. That pretty much excludes any war fought with guns. IMNSHO the honor went out of war when you no longer had to look your enemy in the eye as you killed him. War has become too easy for this (among other) reason.

I'm with Dave on the comment about _everyone_ supporting the war. This is utter rubbish. The comment about questioning the war is also _way_ off track. A true patriot will _always_ question their governments actions (even if they agree with them), and with out a doubt _should_ question the entrance into ANY war.

Europe is a beautiful place. But the war you chose was a deadly one and the sight of bombed out buildings and dead civilians all over the place would mostly detract from that beauty. You have been watching too many war movies... ;)

Support for the troops? Absolutely! This in no way signifies support for war, just the individuals whose lives were destroyed by the decisions of the leaders who got them into the mess.

I have done my military time in the Navy. I am proud of it. I feel it was one of THE most significant things to happen in my life for the way it made me see my fellow Americans (from all over the country), how it made me see people from other parts of the world (from Korea, to South America, to Papua New Guinea (and more)) and the conditions they live in. I was shot at several times (yes even in peace time) and have stories I can never tell anyone. I personally feel that _every_ American should HAVE to serve at least 18 months in the military or Job Core just for those experiences. (not the being shot at ones...)

[Eclecticos]

I'd go for the Braveheart, or 300 type war. .With swords and armor and all that good stuff.

[DaveW]

During WWII If you werent over in Europe fighting, then most likely you were in a factory producing goods for the army,navy etc.
If people didnt support the war, do you really think they would be producing goods to fuel it? Ask any WWII veteran whether they think that fighting in that war was the right thing to do.

Of course it was the right thing to do, the Nazi war machine was sweeping across Europe gobbling everything in it's path. People did what they felt had to be done. That doesn't mean they wanted to be there.

Almost none of them wanted to be there. Some people thought it would all be a bit of fun, get a uniform to impress the girls, show Johnny Foreigner a bit of pistol smoke and he'll go running home. Suddenly, it's no so fun anymore, and a lot of kids died signing up for a war for these reasons.

Your reason seems to be:


Im talking about fighting in a war to protect your country, its citizens and your right.

Fair enough. In that case, it's for each man to decide if he wants to take up arms and fight for what he believes.

What does that actually have to do with your question, about which war you would want to be in? Are you saying you believed fighting against the Nazis was the greatest cause? Because when you say things like:


It was the last major war before countries started using cheap tactics, such as bombs, nerve gas, napalm, mostly automatic weapons.

yes, i know WWII involved 2 nuclear bombs, and a few automatic guns that could be carried.

Plus if i was ever wounded or died, from a gun shot, I would be content with it because most likely my killer had a great deal of skill and it wasnt from some fool who ran around shooting from the hip.

It doesn't sound like you believed in the cause-you sound more like you think this war was the most exciting or fun.


How do you not know your enemies?

He's a guy on a battlefield with a gun. You don't know his name, his normal job, his age, his history. You don't know if he's a decent guy, a family guy, a loner. All those soldiers knew was that they had to shoot them or be shot first. Most of the soldiers in WWII knew that and only that.



PM me if you want me to destroy your belief in the human race more, otherwise you might as well lock it for going off topic.

I don't think so,not yet anyway. I want to actually hear from some of the many soldiers on the boards, to find out what they have to say on the matter. Try to keep it civilized.

There isn't anything personal in this D1337: I'm +repping you for sticking to your guns here. I'm not here to pick a fight, i'm just here for the debate. :)

-Dave

[Airbozo]

There isn't anything personal in this D1337: I'm +repping you for sticking to your guns here. I'm not here to pick a fight, i'm just here for the debate. :)

-Dave

This is one of the main reasons I am proud to be part of TBCS!

And D1337, I am not offended by the topic.

[XcOM]

i would always fight to defent what i belive what is rite, i would always defend my country to my last breath.

If i could be in any war, i would like to be in any of them where we didn't go to war for our own means, basicly, where we only defned our rites, or helped other defend there when they wern't able to do so.

[Bucko]

The object of War is not to die for your Country, but to make the other bastard die for his.

[XcOM]

The object of War is not to die for your Country, but to make the other bastard die for his.


oviously the object is not to die, but i would feel honour to die for my country and what i belive in.

if i were to go to war, kill so meny people, oviously i would feel for the ones that were forced to fight against there will, but i would feel my job done if i stoped just one peron wanted to destry everything that i stand for.

[xRyokenx]

I'm not really all for killing... unless of course the person could cause a massive amount of damage while alive, but even then I frown upon it. With most people I'd rather try to talk to them and show them my side and have them show me theirs so we could possibly come to a truce... that's just me though, and most people despise being negotiated with.

[D1337]

It doesn't sound like you believed in the cause-you sound more like you think this war was the most exciting or fun.


Every war the US has fought in was "to protect your country, its citizens and your right."

I thought it was obvious and decided to start the thread on a lighter note.


He's a guy on a battlefield with a gun. You don't know his name, his normal job, his age, his history. You don't know if he's a decent guy, a family guy, a loner. All those soldiers knew was that they had to shoot them or be shot first. Most of the soldiers in WWII knew that and only that.


drafted into a war to fight an enemy they never knew, supported the war?

I made my comment to see where you were going with that original statement, since i was sorta confused.

So are you saying it would be better to personally know who your killing? IMO that would just cause the soldiers to stutter when it came to killing an enemy.
More US soldiers would have been killed.

purely hypothetical:
Say a neighbor pulled a gun on you, most likely you would go into shock, but if you didnt and you pushed him down the stairs, and broke his legs or something would you go get his weapon and kill him? Most likely not.

Switch the scenario out with some random thug, most likely you wont hold back.

yeah it may not be the best example but you get what im pointing at.

[Airbozo]

Every war the US has fought in was "to protect your country, its citizens and your right."

This is a matter of opinion. IE: The war in Iraq does not fall into the above statement.


purely hypothetical:
Say a neighbor pulled a gun on you, most likely you would go into shock, but if you didnt and you pushed him down the stairs, and broke his legs or something would you go get his weapon and kill him? Most likely not.

Yes I would. He will be back, next time he will not give you a second chance. ...and I consider myself more of a pacifist, until Me or my family is threatened, then all hell breaks loose.
(Besides, he would then sue you for breaking his legs and in this country would probably win)

Switch the scenario out with some random thug, most likely you wont hold back.

True.

yeah it may not be the best example but you get what im pointing at.

Yes.

[DaveW]

So are you saying it would be better to personally know who your killing? IMO that would just cause the soldiers to stutter when it came to killing an enemy.
More US soldiers would have been killed.

Perhaps if we knew our enemies, we wouldn't need to have war. A little understanding could avoid a lot of conflict. However, I understand that arms must be taken up in certain cases.



Switch the scenario out with some random thug, most likely you wont hold back.

Sorry, but I wouldn't shoot a guy with broken arms/legs no matter who he was. Call me merciful, but I always hold back. I would do just enough damage as needed to be done.

EDIT: Also, I think you may be missing the subtle point in that the people you're shooting are just the same as you. They've been put in the same ****ty situation. That's why you end up with things like the Christmas Truce. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christmas_truce)

-Dave

[Omega]

The object of War is not to die for your Country, but to make the other bastard die for his.

...Hello General Patton.



Anywho, I wouldn't want to fight in a war, but I most definately do support our troops and everything they're doing because all they really are doing is following orders.

[D1337]

Also, I think you may be missing the subtle point in that the people you're shooting are just the same as you. They've been put in the same ****ty situation. That's why you end up with things like the Christmas Truce.

If you thought some of my other comments are childish.. then youll love this excuse.


They started it.
Could there have been peaceful resolves to most of these wars? Possibly. They took the initiative to start killing people and/or invading countries.
Once the killing has started, the US wont negotiate any longer.

speaking about general wars, not just iraq or WWII

(off topic: if anyone knows where to buy semi transparent white plexi sheets/acrylic pm it to me please. I can only seem to find sites with opaque stuff.)

[jdbnsn]

Anyone know the reason America joined the conflict in WWII?

[Bucko]

Anyone know the reason America joined the conflict in WWII?


Wasn't it the bombing of Pearl Harbour that brought the USA into the war?

[jdbnsn]

Unofficially, the straw that broke the camel's back was the interception of a coded message from Hitler's intel staff to Mexico. One of the cardinal rules in the code breaking days was never send two different messages in the same code, and that's exactly what they did. The U.S. intel de-codoed the message and it was encourging Mexico to plan an invasion of the U.S. from the south while support from Germany would come from the east crippling U.S. defenses. The official version of why we went to war against the Nazis was the sinking of a pasenger ship with American citizens aboard. We did declare war against Japan due to Pearl Harbor though.

[nil8]

Simple: I wouldn't.

I've been around enough violence and death to know that romanticizing the notion holds absolutely no appeal to me. I use force as needed and nothing more than needed, even when I'm angry.

There is nothing sweet, wonderful, awesome, cool, happy, or enjoyable about people killing each other. It happens. It will always happen as long as their are humans. It doesn't change the fact that it's something that will stay with you for your entire life and you can never remove it from being part of you. In a very real way, it taints you. It can haunt you.

[Airbozo]

The sinking of the Lusitania....
Big Business...
Propaganda...
An intercepted message from Germany asking Mexico to join them in the war and fight against the US...

Pick one or two or more.

Damn Jon, give a guy a chance eh? heheh ;)

[D1337]

If your gonna use it, you might as well call it by its proper name. The Zimmerman telegram. Of course I dont think that the US would have fought japan and then got out of the war. (yes i know they hit japan after Euorpe) But if they hit japan first and never received the telegram, i would be willing to bet they would've moved onto Europe anyways.

You dont just go to slay a two headed monster, then cut off one head and quit, while the remaining head attacks the villagers.

Why are you jumping between wars.

It still doesnt disregard the fact they were attacking countries, just because we "officially" join into a war because of a telegram doesnt mean thats the only reason. If the telegram was never sent Im sure are allies would have been pissed if we decided not to get involved. You just dont let allies get crushed by another country, and dont do anything about it.

[jdbnsn]

Good points on all accounts. I was only referring to the specific trigger that lead us into motion. But I agree with most everything you said.

[Airbozo]

...and one account of the situation was that the Lusitania was just fodder for the German U-boats. Knowing that the American people would then approve of entering the war since the Germans had attacked US citizens. Before the sinking of the Lusitania, most Americans were extremely hesitant to fight in a war that had nothing to do with them, (or so they assumed) on a continent far away...

EDIT: And yes, our allies were already pissed that we took so long to enter the war...

P.S. I never gave a rats ass about history in school. It was only when I joined the Navy and was required to know certain things about naval history that I discovered how interesting it is.

[SgtM]

...and one account of the situation was that the Lusitania was just fodder for the German U-boats. Knowing that the American people would then approve of entering the war since the Germans had attacked US citizens. Before the sinking of the Lusitania, most Americans were extremely hesitant to fight in a war that had nothing to do with them, (or so they assumed) on a continent far away...

EDIT: And yes, our allies were already pissed that we took so long to enter the war...

P.S. I never gave a rats ass about history in school. It was only when I joined the Navy and was required to know certain things about naval history that I discovered how interesting it is.

Same here AB. Both of my grandfathers were in WWII. One of them even helped load the bomb that we dropped on Hiroshima. I wish I would have talked with them more about their experiences.

Personally, I'm glad that I served during peace time, and was never shot at. However, if the call had come in (and in 1997 it almost did -we were put on a 48 hour standby), I would have been ready to go. Our troops in country right now weren't waiting on pin cushions to go and fight. As a matter of fact, if you could interview every one of them right now, the percentage of people who actually WANT to be there would be very small. Keeping that in mind, they also know (and I feel very strongly) that if we had not deployed our troops, we would be fighting this war in our own back yards.

I hate the fact that so many of our young men and women have died during this conflict, but comparitively speaking, it is a relatively small number. Whether or not I feel that the cause for was is justified, I will ALWAYS support and respect the troops on the ground. I have thanked quite a few for thier service. They are very humble about it (as was I) and thank me in return for paving the way for them.

The fact remains that there is absoultely nothing spectacular or romantic about having to kill someone, no matter what the circumstance is.

[D1337]

As a matter of fact, if you could interview every one of them right now, the percentage of people who actually WANT to be there would be very small. Keeping that in mind, they also know (and I feel very strongly) that if we had not deployed our troops, we would be fighting this war in our own back yards.


The majority doesnt want to be there, who would. They get paid whether they are defending the country (by going on the offence) or back in the US training and what not.

Most of them have been in the middle east way longer then they initially thought. Though it should be expected that most wars last several years longer then predicted.


In my opinion one of the reasons why we havent seen any big terrorist acts in the US since is because it would only warrant the government to push the war further since the US has the majority amount of forces in the middle east it would be a bad idea.