A man trying to cure cancer finds out how to burn saltwater

[DaJe]

It's sad that the government will probably eventually try to kill him and destroy his ideas.




Here's a compilation of news videos


h6vSxR6UKFM





And here's an article


http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/07252/815920-85.stm




For obvious reasons, scientists long have thought that salt water couldn't be burned.

So when an Erie man announced he'd ignited salt water with the radio-frequency generator he'd invented, some thought it a was a hoax.

John Kanzius, a Washington County native, tried to desalinate seawater with a generator he developed to treat cancer, and it caused a flash in the test tube.

Within days, he had the salt water in the test tube burning like a candle, as long as it was exposed to radio frequencies.

His discovery has spawned scientific interest in using the world's most abundant substance as clean fuel, among other uses.

Rustum Roy, a Penn State University chemist, held a demonstration last week at the university's Materials Research Laboratory in State College, to confirm what he'd witnessed weeks before in an Erie lab.

"It's true, it works," Dr. Roy said. "Everyone told me, 'Rustum, don't be fooled. He put electrodes in there.' "

But there are no electrodes and no gimmicks, he said.

Dr. Roy said the salt water isn't burning per se, despite appearances. The radio frequency actually weakens bonds holding together the constituents of salt water -- sodium chloride, hydrogen and oxygen -- and releases the hydrogen, which, once ignited, burns continuously when exposed to the RF energy field. Mr. Kanzius said an independent source measured the flame's temperature, which exceeds 3,000 degrees Fahrenheit, reflecting an enormous energy output.

As such, Dr. Roy, a founding member of the Materials Research Laboratory and expert in water structure, said Mr. Kanzius' discovery represents "the most remarkable in water science in 100 years."

But researching its potential will take time and money, he said. One immediate question is energy efficiency: The energy the RF generator uses vs. the energy output from burning hydrogen.

Dr. Roy said he's scheduled to meet tomorrow with U.S. Department of Energy and Department of Defense officials in Washington to discuss the discovery and seek research funding.

Mr. Kanzius said he powered a Stirling, or hot air, engine with salt water. But whether the system can power a car or be used as an efficient fuel will depend on research results.

"We will get our ideas together and check this out and see where it leads," Dr. Roy said. "The potential is huge.

"In the life sciences, the role of water is infinite, and this guy is doing something new in using the most important and most abundant material on the face of the earth."

Mr. Kanzius' discovery was an accident.

He developed the RF generator as a novel cancer treatment. His research in targeting cancer cells with metallic nanoparticles then destroying them with radio-frequency is proceeding at the University of Pittsburgh Medical Center and at the University of Texas' MD Anderson Cancer Center in Houston.

Manuscripts updating the cancer research are in preparation for publication in coming months, Mr. Kanzius said.

While Mr. Kanzius was demonstrating how his generator heated nanoparticles, someone noted condensation inside the test tube and suggested he try using his equipment to desalinate water.

So, Mr. Kanzius said, he put sea water in a test tube, then trained his machine on it, producing an unexpected spark. In time he and laboratory owners struck a match and ignited the water, which continued burning as long as it remained in the radio-frequency field.

During several trials, heat from burning hydrogen grew hot enough to melt the test tube, he said. Dr. Roy's tests on the machine last week provided further evidence that the process is releasing and burning hydrogen from the water. Tests on different water solutions and concentrations produced various temperatures and flame colors.

"This is the most abundant element in the world. It is everywhere," Dr. Roy said of salt water. "Seeing it burn gives me chills."

[xRyokenx]

Good doomsday device if you get a big enough one, but I highly doubt anyone's stupid enough to do that, even if they are crazy enough... but whatever.

Cool thing though, that'd be an awesome fuel for transportation, except it would put oil companies out of business, and we can't have that now can we? Whatever. I still want a salt water powered car... how efficiently does it burn?

[Outlaw]

But researching its potential will take time and money, he said. One immediate question is energy efficiency: The energy the RF generator uses vs. the energy output from burning hydrogen.

Assuming this is what you were talking about. They still have yet to determine it. Either way it is still awesome that it can be done. Now just to get it in cars. Just imagine...."I need to stop at the salt station to fill-r-up" or "we need to get some sea salt from the grocery store, I wanna top off the car before the trip". lol

[DaJe]

Or "hey, let's go down to the beach and get some fuel to drive home".

[Outlaw]

You people and your ocean beaches. lol I'm on lake Michigan. My beach contains everything but salt. lol

[crenn]

What about Australia?!

[xRyokenx]

Actually... it makes you wonder how many of the beaches would be taken over by stuff for collecting salt, etc. That and how fast would we go through it? What kind of effect would it have on the environment? Kinda need to go through that schtuff before just all out using it.

[Outlaw]

Actually... it makes you wonder how many of the beaches would be taken over by stuff for collecting salt, etc. That and how fast would we go through it? What kind of effect would it have on the environment? Kinda need to go through that schtuff before just all out using it.


In my opinion...
As much as I would like to use the other options over oil, we don't have to worry about that yet. "People" are paid to keep the alternative fuels from being widely used. Until we actually run out of oil, we will continue to use and pay the rediculous prices for it. There are plenty of other options out there that are just as good as what oil can be used for.

[Quakken]

The thing is, if it weakens the bond between the hydrogen and oxygen, why not just do that at the beach factory and ship the stuff to states.

Also, if it works better than electrolysis, then just do that to water and ship the hydrogen fuel for fuel cells (or ship it like it is and just burn it with the oxygen mix).

If the energy output is somehow greater than the energy input, then we have found a cure for what we will do once the oil runs out.

And from what i've seen, i actually think it might work with just water. I don't see what adding NaCl would do to make the molecule more apt to break apart. But who knows, i'm not a chemist.

If it's better than electrolysis but still not more than 100% energy efficient, then why not use NUCLEAR power to make hydrogen, put it in fuel cells, and use THAT for our cars?

the possibilities are great for this. But although it's great, i don't think burning the ocean is the answer. I'm sure it would be hundreds if not thousands of years away, but we may just cause an impact if we start to burn the ocean. It would get shallower, making it slightly hotter and worse for the ecology, we'd have less water which would speed the impact of heating the water to make hurricanes more prevalent. Sure, it would take probably over 100 years, but hey, we always thought that oil was limitless in 1907, we surely think water is limitless in 2007.

We'll see how it turns out.

[xRyokenx]

Law of the conservation of energy dude...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conservation_of_energy

Basically, you cannot create or destroy energy, just transfer it to something else or change forms (kinetic, thermal, etc.).

[DaJe]

As far as we currently know anyway.

[xRyokenx]

Yeah... it'd be interesting to see how everything supposedly changes if we find different...

[Quakken]

I wasn't saying he was destroying energy (if it was me you were replying to). At least, i didn't mean to. I know you can't create energy (short of fusion, but that's different)


anyway. Glad i could clear that up.

[Omega]

Law of the conservation of energy dude...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conservation_of_energy

Basically, you cannot create or destroy energy, just transfer it to something else or change forms (kinetic, thermal, etc.).

Damn you and your beating me to it.



Also: This. Is. Huge.

But will probably be stomped ALL OVER by the big oil companies who won't thrive once saltwater is a viable fuel source. Think about it. What would you rather do, go to the beach/store and buy for cheap / get for free the stuff you need or pay some capitalist pigdogs? [/commie]

[xRyokenx]

Instead of those idiots doing stuff to prevent it, why not spend some of your billions so that you can stay with the game and help further things? Instead of spending money to destroy stuff that'll keep us going when you're gone, why not invest in it so you stay (like we really need these guys around when the oil's gone, but meh) around after your precious black gold is burnt up and gone? Seriously.

[Omega]

Instead of those idiots doing stuff to prevent it, why not spend some of your billions so that you can stay with the game and help further things? Instead of spending money to destroy stuff that'll keep us going when you're gone, why not invest in it so you stay (like we really need these guys around when the oil's gone, but meh) around after your precious black gold is burnt up and gone? Seriously.


Because of a few simple things.

Instant Gratification. Why spend money now to make it tomorrow when you can just make it today?

Greed. They don't care for developing new fuels. They only care about the fact that in about 10-15 years, their money source will probably be gone.

[xRyokenx]

Because of a few simple things.

Instant Gratification. Why spend money now to make it tomorrow when you can just make it today?

Greed. They don't care for developing new fuels. They only care about the fact that in about 10-15 years, their money source will probably be gone.

BAM! Hit the nail on the head. People can be so short sighted sometimes... and not care about the future as they believe they're gonna be dead by then or that it doesn't matter... but yeah, I live in the "now", but plan for the future.

[Omega]

I hardly "plan" for the future, but I know it exists, unlike, well, you know. ;)

[xRyokenx]

Well, I make a general plan and save up money and all... that's why I still have a lot of my college fund left and didn't blow it on a Hummer, a new gaming rig with the most expensive (not necessarily the best) parts, etc. Note: I don't have THAT much either..

[OvRiDe]

Can you buy stock in Salt Water yet?? :D

[xRyokenx]

No... but I can throw money into the ocean if that helps. :D

[danthegeek]

I wish oil would run out. Atleast then we would have to convert to new sources of energy. Then companies would be in competition with the new "abundant"/different sources and prices should be lower. (Supply and Demand)

[Omega]

I can see it now

some dude with a huge empty water tank just filled it with salt water

holy ****, ROBIN WILLIAMS WAS RIGHT.

Robin Williams talked about how in ten years water will like freakin' gold. "Hey man, you want some water? Oh, and if you want it cold, I got ice, mother****er."

ALL PRAISE THE PROPHET ROBIN WILLIAMS

[crenn]

IF oil did run out, we'd have:

a) a major energy crisis
b) no new computers as computers need machines to make the parts, which need oil.

[Omega]

Not all lubricants are oil based.

I've got plenty of experience with water and silicone based lubricants.

*shifty eyes*

[DaJe]

There are also other sources of oil aside from the naturally occuring stuff.

[Quakken]

I think what we're missing here is the fact that this doesn't put out more energy than is put in. Sure, it's a completely clean emission free process, but all the energy put into the RF is less than can be possibly output by the burning hydrogen.

but again, if it is more efficient than electrolysis for seperating water into hydro and oxy, then he's got something there.

[.jrauck]

Lets just hope his workshop doesnt "blow up" with all the scientist in it :D

Question for you guys that know about everything... when he burns the salt water does that process just burn the salt and evaporate the water, or does it burn both?

[Omega]

Lets just hope his workshop doesnt "blow up" with all the scientist in it :D

Question for you guys that know about everything... when he burns the salt water does that process just burn the salt and evaporate the water, or does it burn both?

It seperates the hydrogen and oxygen, hydrogen burns, oxygen probably helps fuel it (but I'm not sure)

the salt probably helps lower the amount of energy needed to make the molecules break up like that because of some crap I learned last year that I can't remember.

[xRyokenx]

...because of some crap I learned last year that I can't remember.

Heh heh. Hilarious.

Chemistry was fun, my teacher was awesome... had him for Physics too, but some crap was going on with his daughter (she was around 13-ish) and that ruined the class, he was too depressed to really teach. Meh.

But yeah, Chemistry is fun, I should take that again some day...

/OT :banana:

[Canadian Eh?]

I read about this earlier. This fuel would be perfect for people like me who live in newfoundland because every side of the province is sorounded by the Atlantic ocean. This put a lot of people out of jobs tho, since the offshore oil industry in Newfoundland is a huge Buisiness. All in all the tho, he kinda hit two birds with one stone. Found a way to potentially kill cancer cells, and found a fuel source that is practically everywhere

[xRyokenx]

It would be kinda cool if he got a Nobel prize or some other sort of award, this is huge imo. I can see the military jumping on this if they find some practical way to use it in such big equipment. Like that'd be awesome for smaller boats, just get something that collects (and filters/whatever if necessary) and you have unlimited fuel.

[Aero]

Not all lubricants are oil based.

I've got plenty of experience with water and silicone based lubricants.

*shifty eyes*

LMAO, that made my day Omega, + rep.


you dirty mf.

[Omega]

LMAO, that made my day Omega, + rep.


you dirty mf.

I've also had experience with mineral oil lubricants, for milling and such

[Quakken]

Too bad after further review i have found that through the "laws" or physics, there isn't any way this can create any extra energy.

but I still think we can use nuclear fission to split the ocean and power our cars this way.

Any hydrogen energy "solution" is really just using the hydrogen as a sort of battery, you have to put in energy to get it out of water, and it puts out just as much.

[Omega]

Too bad after further review i have found that through the "laws" or physics, there isn't any way this can create any extra energy.

but I still think we can use nuclear fission to split the ocean and power our cars this way.

Any hydrogen energy "solution" is really just using the hydrogen as a sort of battery, you have to put in energy to get it out of water, and it puts out just as much.

We've already discussed this, the law of conservation of energy.

But as a method of getting hydrogen that takes less energy than other methods, this actually has viable uses. Hydrogen Fuel Cell cars might get phased out (they generate electricity and run off of that) and replaced with hydrogen combustion cars, to which the byprodouct is water iirc.

I have no idea how practical any of this is, however. It is cool though.