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Spaceroach
08-07-2005, 04:41 PM
Hi folks, it's your friendly neighborhood Space Roach... I've been planning a mod for a while that I think I should run by you all to find out if it's do-able or even worth doing at all.

What I propose is an (almost) airtight plexiglass case, sealed against dust and the elements with caulking and weather stripping. There will, howver, be airflow - three high-powered exhaust fans. And this is where it gets a little funny. There will be no intake fans - indeed there will be no intake apertures over 60 mm. The idea is to have the fans try to suck out more air than is coming in, creating low pressure inside the case.

Cool air is ducted directly to the CPU and immediately out through one of the fans. From the front of this case straight through the back, this air never enters the rest of the case.

The hard drives will be mounted in 5.25" bay coolers, and will be compartmentalized from the rest of the case with a piece of plexiglass. The hot air will be pulled out the top.

Finally, the rest of the case will be cooled by an aperture in the bottome of the case, the air sucked out through the PSU.

I have included a (crude) diagram for reference:
http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y75/spaceroach486/fumash.jpg

I thank you all in advance for any advice you give me.

Zeus
08-07-2005, 09:07 PM
I am no expert, but it sounds to me like there is not enough cool airflow for all your other computer components. I understand you are trying to minmize dust, but, if you are trying to sacrifice temps in exchange for cleanliness. You are going to end up with a clean fried PC.

If you want to get rid of dust inside your pc. Just get some canned air or an air compressor and routinely blow that dust out.

sXenoG
08-07-2005, 09:35 PM
as reccomended by another modder if you want to keep dust out go get some pantyhose was reccomended and said to work fairly well. I like your idea tho. Ive never been very good with my cooling havent suffered cuz of it as of yet. My sony vaio did in fact have NO intakes what so ever and had but 1 exhaust. It ran just fine for yr and a half without ever cleaning it.

But because everyone loves cooling ill advise against this method. Someone was selling an a/c for you pc in this forum it uses thermoelectric properties to cool look ugly but you could probably mod these to get temps down as well as filter them for gust just a thought tho. I think frozen cpu were selling them :)

Spaceroach
08-08-2005, 02:29 AM
Well, the idea is to have active exhaust (with fans) and passive intake (just holes). If I can get some high CFM fans exhausting lots of air out, newer, cool air will naturally be sucked in to replace it. That's how my vacuum cleaner works, and that thing moves a *lot* of air at high speed.

Plus a lower pressure inside the case will cause the air to conduct heat better (I think... I haven't been to science class in five years). My only concern is moisture and condensation, because I think that's another low-pressure phenomenon. Where's Bill Nye when you need him? :D

Anyway, whether I put fans in em or not, all intakes will be filtered thoroughly. I really hate dust. My current ugly old case (it's vintage 90's!) is sealed off (except for the filtered fans) with the Handyman's Secret Weapon - good thing this case has no window. The dust isn't so bad now, almost acceptable. I never heard of using nylons though, and I'd feel weird buying them.

Anyways, there will be more fans *in* the case over the hotter components..

slaveofconvention
08-11-2005, 05:27 PM
In my experience, and also in a lot of posts i've seen, generally balanced airflow is better. I'd certainly suggest an intake fan on your duct to make sure you get optimum air movement. The idea of the duct is definitely a sound one though. Your processor will almost certainly benefit from having a source of air that hasn't been pre-warmed by your other components.

What kind of hardware do you have? The amount of cooling you need varies massively depending on the kit in the box - for example, if you're running a big overclocked Pentium 4 and a 6800 graphics card, you might even benefit from MORE than you have planned (especially if you live somewhere ambient temps are high) whereas if you're running a 754pin sempron with basic graphics, in an air conditioned office, you'll be wasting your money there...

crazybillybob
08-11-2005, 05:47 PM
Dude....I've been Air cooling my case for 3yrs now (I've got like 6 fans on the case alone) needles to say it's not a quite rig, but it's clean...I have no filters or what not and there is little to no dust on anything. My wife and I are not pigs but we're not neat freaks either. (We also have 2 cats and a dog in the house!).

The whole negative pressure thing sounds good in theory but it an't going to work. Air cooling is a balancing act .....Too much Air=Hi temps (why, it doesn't stay around long enough to pick up heat...It's a transfer it happens quickly but it's not instantaneous!) not enough air (you plan)=Hi temps (Why, the air hangs out too long and becomes as hot as everything else)

If your super scared of dust you need a Aluminum case (with A large heat sink onto the Proc....Hay there's some small form factors that do this....The sides of the case are Aluminum heat sinks, and they use heat-pipes to pull the heat from the proc and pass it to the heat sinks. they cost about $300us ea).

The last thing....If your so worried about dust WHY PLEXI? that's like wearing white to the truck pulls and being a crew chief!!!! your asking dust to show up (I'm not explaining Static electricity to day....use google and look it up!) :eek: Basically your making a dust magnet...

This like the 3-4 thread this week about air cooling....I think I've said the same thing each time (with more or less detail) So check a few other posts in the nook and you may get more info. ;)

Crazybillybob

Shane33
08-11-2005, 10:20 PM
To create lowpressure in your case your would need very powerfull fans to suck out the air. Standard compuer fans are not that powerfull, it will blow as much air as it gets, but it wont suck air. If you have no intake fans your exaust fans will move less air, and your case will heat up. If you can't stand dust just get some fan filters, they cost something like 99c at newegg.

Spaceroach
08-12-2005, 02:29 AM
Thanks for all the advice folks. I intend to act on it.

The system I plan on building will be an AMD 64 4000 with dual 7800gtx's. I may or may not OC but based on your advice I think I'm going to try my first water-cooled setup. Though I'm personally leery about liquids around my computer, the general consensus is that it's perfectly safe as long as you're careful. Now I have to go and research as much about water cooling as much as possible.

Thanks again,

Spaceroach

Archimedes
08-12-2005, 06:11 AM
Water cooling isn't really too hard. There's a few things you need to remember, when you're setting up the system:


Minimize/eliminate kinks in the lines. Kinks = lack/loss of flow.
Vent the system beforehand. Best way to do this (I've found) is to use a spare PSU to power the WC pump, and keep the reservoir higher than everything else (to establish plenty of postive suction head to the pump). Keep the reservoir open and the inlet to the pump covered with water, so that you expell the air in the hoses/rad/coolers out. Most importantly, be patient during this step; it takes time to get all of the air out. YMMV.
This should go without saying, but tap water=bad. Deionized water and anti-freeze, or any of the products available specifically for watercooling is far better.

Shane33
08-12-2005, 08:10 AM
Why dont you look at the Gigabyte galaxy water cooling system (at least i think that is what it is called). So far every one that has reviewd it has given good grades. Its a entry level water cooling kit, very easy installation and great performance. If you want the simplest water cooling for the cheapest price, but would still hold its own against air, look at the Cooler master mini aquagates. Only cools CPU though, but you don't have to worry about refilling or nothing else that is usually associated with water cooling. For your system i would try a preasembeled one, especially if your going to intall it on a newly upraded system. I would go for the Amd 3800+ duel core, amazing overclocks for stock cooling, nearly to 4800+ duel core speeds, really cheap price, best buy on the market right now for AMD... but who would buy intel anyway.

Spaceroach
08-12-2005, 04:56 PM
Right now I'm looking at some Danger Den products, they seem quite reputable for their quality though they don't seem to have kits, only pieces. Plus all their stuff can fit 1/2 inch tubing, which is what I plan on using. I might try building my own rad setup if I can find a radiator of appropriate size. *imagines enormous external radiator with a 12 inch turbine*

The reason I'm not going with dual core is because I can't see how I'll ever need it. I don't multitask, don't do any DV editing or multimedia. I just play games, maybe watch DVDs. The 4000+ (San Diego) seems to bang pretty hard in comparison to its buck according to the reviews I've read, and will overclock comfortably to 2.6 or 2.7. If there comes a time when I absolutely need dual-core, I'll cross that bridge when I come to it.

Intel still makes processors? lol

Shane33
08-12-2005, 09:09 PM
I don't know, if i was in your position i would take a hard look at both 3800+ duel core and the 4000+. But if its for gaming, then yeah the 4000+ is the choice. Look at swiftech products too. They come in kits aswell as individual products. They got a new Cpu block that is simply amazing. Costs a 100US though, it uses micro jets. Kits are always cheaper so check out the kits before you buy individual.

slaveofconvention
08-13-2005, 12:08 AM
If you really are paranoid about leaks and safety, and who wouldn't be with components that are going to cost as much as the ones you're planning, you may as well spend a little extra and buy some specialist non-conductive fluid for the cooling system. It just goes in as usual instead of the water, is as (or more) effective than normal water, and it can spring as many leaks as it like, spray all over the inside of your shiny new pc when it's going along at max load, and do no damage whatsoever (unless it ALL leaks out then you have no cooling) - it is theorthetically possible (altho expensive) to completely submerge your electonic in this stuff with no damage - thats not meant as a suggestion - but it doesnt conduct electricity at all so there is no risk of shorts

Spaceroach
08-13-2005, 04:57 PM
Yeah, I read about that 3M stuff and the total immersion... that's a little too overboard for me (but I still think it's pretty damn cool)... I may get nonconductive fluid for this setup if it's priced reasonably. I don't want to go too bonkers with the overclocking. From what I could find out, the 4000+ San Diego is almost exactly the same as an FX-55, minus 200 megahertz, and is very overclockable. I figure I'll be able to walk it from the stock 2.4 up to about 2.7 or 2.8 with no stability problems, as long as I'm watercooling. (I just checked my idle temp on the 2600+ I have right now, 51 degrees celsius. :eek:)

As for multicore processing, I'm going to hold out on it for a year, and if I find I need it by then I'll upgrade (four-core CPUs are in the works according to the rumors) to one. But only if it means faster gaming.