cooling without overkill

[amberella]

welcome to my first post here - be gentle. :p

i have my default (actually works) comp and 5 others in various states of disarray about my apartment. instead of moving them all (i'm moving to nyc in oct) i figured i'd pull the decent parts into one box and use it purely as a rather low-traffic server. of course, as i started doing this i got the hankering to replace my big, old clunky boxes with a new micro case and trick it out just a little for fun. i've never built a system from scratch before, though, and i need a little guidance.

basically, i'm wondering exactly how much cooling is ENOUGH cooling for my needs. i don't plan on having a video card for gaming or constantly streaming off the cd-rom or anything particularly intensive (i'm certainly not overclocking anything), but i do plan on leaving the system on 24-7. i bought my microATX case today, 3 hrs before one of my friends said "do not use a micro case for running a server... or if you do, put in ridiculous air flow" lol. so now i'm a little worried. i know i have space to add more fans, but as of right now the only ones i was planning on are an 80mm intake on the front and 80mm outflow on the back. there's also the fan on the CPU heatsink, obviously.

does that sound like enough?

thanks for your insights, and i plan on posting pics as i go, as i'm pretty artsy and i think i've got a pretty good idea for the theme. ;) well, that and because there's a sorry lack of female representation on these forums!

here's what i'm putting in the box:
mATX sempron 2800+ mobo
CD-R
3.5" Floppy & 8-1 Card Reader
2 HDDs
5.25" Fan/Light controller
230W mATX PSU


amberella

[Aero]

hmmm... Well, let me first say Welcome. Also I fully support the "others in various states of disarray" approach to computers :p.

Ok, it looks like your set up might run alittle warm. The 2 HDD's will generate some heat and the CPU will warm up fast in a tight space. But I've never built a miniATX before. I would recommend getting a good heat sink and making those 80mm fans as high air flow as possible, unless your worried about sound, in which case a few 120 mm would be good, Again, try for high air flow. And good luck, put up a worklog once you get this going.

[snefan]

yeah i would go for 120mm instead of 80, they move more air ;)

and maybe a 80 in the top if theres enough space? (warm air goes up you know :P )

but def. a 120 in the front and back

[amberella]

thanks for the help so far. unfortunately fans in the top are a no-go: the space in that micro case is already too tight up there.

i'm with you that switching to 120s would be benificial (and i will do so in the rear), but i'm adding extra drive bays down the front so that i think 80 might be as big as i'm gonna be able to fit in there. do you think it's a better idea to (a) get an actual hard disk cooler or (b) put a 120 in the side of the case where there IS room (or i guess (c) both a and b.... i hate those kinds of multiple choice questions though...).

i've just been reading about the whole balanced airflow thing and i don't want to have it all out of whack and accidentally blow up the universe.

amberella

[Malatory]

If there is only room for 1 120MM fan is the back, and use a 80 in the front. check to see if you can use an Xp90-C (Heavy but all cooper tends to be) or the XP90.

If you are going to be in the idle state more often than not, Then watch the temps for a feww days and also make sure you place stays under 75 Degrees as well.

[slaveofconvention]

I really wouldn't worry about it too much. Despite some people thinking too much is never enough, a good dual 80mm airflow should be enough for the system you're looking at. Semprons are not great heat producers (especially not the socket 754 ones - you didn't say if you were on 754 or Socket A), and if you're concerned, you could always underclock it (drop the FSB a little)- you won't need a huge amount of processor power if it's just a small fileserver for use with your own other PCs - most modern cases actually place the front intake fans directly in front of the hard disks. I would recommend, if you have 3 hard drive bays, you leave a gap between the hard disks, but other than that, I don't think you have to worry.

I built a low-usage fileserver in a full tower case when I was in Australia - ambient temperature were around 90 degrees most days (no, I'm not exaggerating - its bloody hot in Northern WA - Western Australia) and that had 6 hard disks in it, and only had 2 80mm intakes (1 in front of each 3 drives) and a 92mm exhaust, and it ran just fine.

[slaveofconvention]

i've just been reading about the whole balanced airflow thing and i don't want to have it all out of whack and accidentally blow up the universe.

amberella

One other thing you might want to bear in mind, something which a lot of people actually forget about when considering balanced airflow - the vast majority of PSUs actually vent hot air out of the case too - so you may well already have one exhaust in your system...

[Chapel]

The big thing i know about airflow is that out is that out is better than in. No not overkill I would have one in over your cpu/gpu then 2 out in the back and one out in the front. Now if its noise that concerns you then i would get variable speed fans and some foam for the inside.

[amberella]

so many different opinions - this is great! i've been designing and re-designing my initial plans while i wait for some things i ordered ... there's definitely a delicate balancing act between sound/space/airflow/appearance considering that i'm going to be working with a micoATX case, much of which will be acrylic, that i want to leave idling 24hrs a day. on top of that, my design idea involves a lot of coverage of components for a really clean, blank kind of look - so lots of variables to consider. all your insights have been invaluable!

here's the quick & general idea of the layout i'm going for: side view (http://amberbaldet.com/uploads/plans_side.jpg) front view (http://amberbaldet.com/uploads/plans_front.jpg)

anything gray is an actual component, the purple is covers i'm fabricating. (they're not going to be purple, either, that's just for clarity... ). the grid pattern is going to be a mesh that will allow plenty of airflow around the motherboard but visually obscure it. i'm hoping to get the plug ends inside the "boxes" but i know space is super tight so that's iffy. i've drawn it as though it will work out ok.

so in regards to this cooling thread, i'm think i'm gonna go with an 80 intake in the front and 120 out in the back as suggested, but since i'm having a somewhat enclosed area for the drives (there will be some ventilation holes and the bottom is open) i figured a HD cooler would help blow air out of that space. as mentioned, when you add the built in ventilation on the PSU and CPU heatsink, i think everything **should** be ok. i'm also thinking about adding an intake in the top front of the case to blow down through the drives and out through the bottom HD cooler.

thoughts???

oh and i almost forgot:
Semprons are not great heat producers (especially not the socket 754 ones - you didn't say if you were on 754 or Socket A) it's 754. i didn't realize there was an appreciable heat difference btwn the Socket A and Socket 754 so i didn't mention that initially. ;)

as soon as all the crap i ordered gets here, i'll start that worklog.

:D amberella

[slaveofconvention]

Foam really doesn't make a lot of difference to noise produced by fans unfortunately - it's better suited to reducing noise caused by internal components.

The main reasons for the lower heat levels produced by the 754 is twofold (if you really care) - 754's are based on the Athlon64 manufacturing process, Socket A's on the Athlon XP process - the A64 process is more refined so produces less heat anyway - on top of that, the 754 chips have a MUCH larger surface area as they have a heat spreader whereas the Socket A's don't. The 754's also have a much bigger overclocking potential - mainly BECAUSE of the lower heat output and more refined process. (Ok, shutting up now cos I'm starting to bore ME!)

As Chapel mentions, too much going out is better than too much going in - if you have too much exhaust, the air is pulled in thru vents etc so it remains fairly balanced - if you have too much intake, hot air tends to stagnate inside the case, NOT a good thing. If you're planning on an 80mm intake and a 120mm exhaust, plus the power supply fan, you actually already have more exhaust than intake so should be ok.

The components you mentioned before really arent going to generate a lot of heat - the 2 main sources of heat in any system are usually graphics and the cpu - as I mentioned before, the 754 semprons (good choice by the way - easy to upgrade to A64 if the need arises) do not produce much heat (well not compared so some processors anyway) and as you arent using high end graphics, I'd say you're going to be just fine - which means you can stop worrying about heat and concentrate on the more interesting design parts of the project.

I notice from your design sketch that you arent going to be able to have the intake blowing straight onto the drives which is a shame - I'd suggest going without the HD cooler initially, measure the temps and see if you need it or not - 60mm fans can be noisy (and worse they tend to whine instead of drone so its even MORE annoying) so I'd only put it in if it is NEEDED - of course, the final decision is up to you.

Have fun with it - altho I'm sure you will :p