Another keyboard mod?

[Outlaw]

I just did a quick google search before posting this. Don't have too much time. Leaving in a min, so I hope you guys can help. I didn't see anything in the quick search where just the characters were lit up. I don't care for having the open space around the keys lit up, just the character themselves. Anybody do this or see it done?

I would plan to use some smaller led's and a crap load of wiring. Not sure if using a dremel or something to just melt the letter out of the key. What do you think would work best?

Any input is appreciated. BTW this would be on a Merc Gaming Keyboard (http://lib.store.yahoo.net/lib/xoxide/iz-merc-keyboard-2.jpg) I do not have any lights on anything else as it is all stock. I was thinking of maybe white for the letters then red or blue where the gaming pad is.

What do you guys think?

[Spawn-Inc]

sounds like a tedious task, but one with great rewards. i would find a old keyboard and practice which is the best way to cut out the characters. once cut try to find some kind of liquid that dries solid and clear, then you could just dip the keys in and have a smooth finish. i think i would use a dremel to attempt such a feet with this attachment (http://www.aircraftresourcecenter.com/tnt1/001-100/TNT020_Dremel_Mini-Mite/images/dremel-3.jpg)(number 2).

[jdbnsn]

I would like a keyboard like this too and thought of how it could be done. Never really came up with anything useful but I'd love to see you figure it out. And maybe sell me one.

[Scotty]

There's always this link (http://www.artlebedev.com/everything/optimus/)

Awesome in EVERY way! Except the price, i wouldn't mind one though.

[Roughhouse]

I am working on the same thing for my mod (http://www.thebestcasescenario.com/forum/showthread.php?t=10867). I will be posting some updated images later tonight. Anyway I am placing a ton of LEDs in the base of the keyboard, then I am using my Dremel to cut holes in the top of each key. Once this is done I am gluing a small piece of transparency to the top of each key. I am then sanding down the edges of the transparencies to blend to the key. I have to do this carefully so that I don't peel the transparency from the key. I am also sanding the top of the transparency to frost it so that the light diffuses through the key. What I then plan on doing is placing a small sticker the shape of my letters on the keys. Then I am going to paint all the keys. Once I have the right amount of paint I will then remove the stickers and clear coat the whole key. I plan on also placing a remote start, remote DVD eject and a switch fro controlling the Keyboard lights.

[Roughhouse]

One other thing. As for the clear liquid, you could try two part epoxy. Will dry clear, but with a slight yellowish tint. Or you could try some casting resin. This is some neat stuff. I just picked some up, but I think it has lots of potential. You should be able to find at any craft store ie Hobby lobby.

[tinker]

There's always this link (http://www.artlebedev.com/everything/optimus/)

Awesome in EVERY way! Except the price, i wouldn't mind one though.

Yea those things would be amazing. OLED in each button. Really expensive and its been in the making for several years without any official release.

Back to the main topic though. That sound like it would be really difficult. My mine worry, aside from the hours and hours of tedious work would be making sure none of the LED got in the way of the key functioning. If you want to try it more power to ya and I hope that you can do it.

An alternative would be the Saitek Elcipse.

http://fluidpc.com/components/Saitek_EclipseII.jpg

[Outlaw]

The first keyboard is way too expensive. The last one here just before this post is what I don't want. I just want the characters to light up. I go on the computer quite a bit in the dark and I don't usually need to see the keys I type with, sometimes you get that one odd character that you wish you knew where it was. Roughhouse, good luck with that and I will have to watch the progress. I really don't want to take more time then needed. I was hopefully just going to cut the letters out with a bit similar to Spawn Inc's. Just need to go the hardware store to pick one up. As long as the key doesn't get too chewed up, I don't think I should have to worry too much about clear coating it. I figure I will also need a fairly small file to sand the edges down but overall be able to just mod the lights into it. Sounds that easy in my head anyways. :D Thanks for all the quick responses.

+rep

[jdbnsn]

I know exactly what you mean by just the characters being lit, thats what I want too. I have a slide-out keyboad shelf on my desk and as a simple solution I ran a molex outside the case and used it to power one of those EL wires which I taped under the desk top to glow over the keyboard. It didn't work all that great but helped a little, but I'd really like what you are making. You should find a font that is fairly simple and print out all the characters and use an exacto to make stencils. Then maybe transfer the stencils to a stronger material like a thin but firm sheet of plastic and use an engraver to outline your characters so it's easier to not file outside the lines. And for a thin file, maybe a really thin strip of metal like a coping saw blade with high-grit sandpaper fixed to one side?

[Outlaw]

Thanks jdbnsn. I popped a couple of my keys out with a pen and there seems to be quite a bit of room for a 3mm if not a 5mm led. The only problem is the one website I was able to locate led's on is going to cost me a min. of $50 (US) just for the bulbs (min of 130 bulbs) (http://www.superbrightleds.com/led_prcs.htm#5mm). I was just looking a little more closely at the lettering, and it seems pretty small. Going to be tricky to get the keys to come out good.

Does anybody know about the luminous and viewing angle and what would be a good rating to use in the keys?

[jdbnsn]

I'm sure you can get a better deal on LED's than that, take a look through the wiki under modding suppliers.

[SgtM]

Jon beat me to the suggestion, but here's a direct link:
http://www.thebestcasescenario.com/modwiki/index.php/List_Of_Suppliers

[Spawn-Inc]

*cough* LSdiodes.com (http://lsdiodes.com/) :):) $0.45 LED's with only 2.00 Shipping.

[Outlaw]

Thanks for the links. LSdiodes.com is under construction so I couldn't see any pricing. The other sites I went to were more then superbrightleds.com (http://www.superbrightleds.com/led_prcs.htm#5mm). The cheapest white led was .49 and the cheapest red led was .24. I didn't look to see any specs on them though, just that they were the cheapest. And I think I found the drill bit I am going to use. on the left. (http://www.starglass.com/images/carbidebits.jpg)

[Spawn-Inc]

still?!?! i hope there not going out of business...

ya thats a bit i would use too, or the ball. it depends on which does the better job. but like i said use a old keyboard or go around your neighborhood on garbage day and look for keyboards to practice on.

[Ninjutsu PiloT]

I like this idea, and not to hijack the thread but I have a wireless keyboard, lets say I was to tinker with lighting, can it remain wireless or would the LEDs suck too much battery power if its even possible to attach them to the circuit somehow. I know LEDs are efficient but I don't know how efficient

I am a huge electrical noob

[Outlaw]

I have the keyboards to practice on. Old Emachine PS2 one.. lol. I got 2 of the bits on the left from a science and surplus store for $2 so I don't think I would be at a loss with them. Also they are pretty tiny and could probably do the job quite well as long as I can keep a steady hand.



And Ninjutsu, I think you could keep it wireless if you were able to have some other internal power source like a couple of 9v's but don't know how long that would last depending on how many bulbs and space you needed.

[Spawn-Inc]

you could steal the power from the batteries but i would for sure add a switch, but it will decrease the life, not sure how much but it will affect it a bit. depending on how many you use will also affect it.

[Outlaw]

Ninjutsu, I think you could keep it wireless if you were able to have some other internal power source like a couple of 9v's but don't know how long that would last depending on how many bulbs and space you needed.

[Outlaw]

Spawn... I went to LSDiodes again and it says "LSDiodes Optoelectronics has closed up shop :(
We may open again to liquidate some inventory but other than that it appears as though we have come to an end. We would like to thank everyone who helped us become the popular supplier that we were. If you any questions or concerns or would like to see if we still have an item you need in stock, shoot us an email at sales [at] lsdiodes [dot] com."

[Spawn-Inc]

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO what will me and SGTM recommend now??

dammit that sucks, i will have to look at ordering from them if they open for liquidation.

[Outlaw]

If they were cheaper, yes that does suck. lol

Before I go buying any LED's. Should I go with the 5mm or the 3mm, is there any significant difference (other then the 2mm size)? Also what should I be comparing so I don't spend more on a bulb I don't need or spend to little for a bulb I didn't need. Being that this isn't that cheap (for me) I don't want to spend that kinda money on something that will just get put off.

[Spawn-Inc]

they had 5mm leds for .45 cents i think.

i think i would go with the 3mm, if there cheaper, otherwise 5mm will work just fine. the smaller ones you could have dropped in then poured some model cement or something that work stick them in place and dry clear.

before you put them in i would sand the tops with 200-300 grit sand paper to give them a diffused look.

out of these two green led's i would go with the first one for the wider view angle.


RL3-G3530 Green 3mm LED
3mm Green Super Bright LED
525 nm / 3500 mcd / 30 Degree Viewing Angle


RL3-G4518 Green 3mm LED
3mm Green Super Bright LED
525 nm / 4500 mcd / 18 Degree Viewing Angle

[Outlaw]

Thanks. The 3mm aren't cheaper but would probably fit better. I don't think I have anything around that size that I can set into the key to see how it would fit. So.. I want to look at viewing angle? Should I look at the mcd's at all? I don't know how bright I should get if I am going to diffuse it.

[Spawn-Inc]

i think any standard led should do well, i'm not sure how much of a difference there is when it comes to different MCD's. i just bought my leds acording to size and colour, i never really had an option at LSDiodes. i'm not sure how big your going to cut the letters but if the angle is wider there is less change of a bright spot on it, sanding them should also help.

you said you have a old keyboard, grab the leds from that and try it out on a cut key.

[Outlaw]

I do have an old keyboard, but don't have any led's yet. I didn't want to buy any until I had an idea of what to get.

[Spawn-Inc]

but doesn't it have any led's, for the numlock, scroll lock and caps lock?

[Outlaw]

ooooooo.......that way. lol I thought you were talking about the led's I wanted to use. Yeah, they have those. I will try it tomorrow after my job interview. Thanks. BTW I plan to use white (Clear) and red LED's unless someone can tell me why I shouldn't.

Thanks!

[Spawn-Inc]

ya, just mess around with them to get the look you want and see if there bright enough, if they are then you can get way with what ever any site has to offer.

and you shouldn't use red LED's because it won't match my theme, then again this is yours so put any colour you want!

not sure if you thought of this but you can get double and triple colour LED's, it would mean more wiring but then you get choice of colour. but they usually cost more. i would stick with the one colour though, makes things much simpler.

[Outlaw]

Thanks. The reason I am using red is because my keyboard has the gaming pad on it and I want to keep them separate from the regular keyboard which I was going to do in white just to light it up and not make it look like a rainbow. Using superbrightleds.com pricing they are a $1.50 a bulb. Not really what I want to spend. And They only had a Red/Green/Blue bulb. Maybe if it were different colors. But I really don't need all the different color choices. Right now I don't have any ccfl's in my case (no windows) and don't have anything lighting up. I was thinking of taking my neons out of my car and putting them in the front of my case to light up the grill. Not really sure yet though.

"and you shouldn't use red LED's because it won't match my theme, then again this is yours so put any colour you want!"

^^This is why I come to the forums, to get other peoples opinions and ideas.

Thanks for the input.

[Roughhouse]

Well if you go with colored LED's I know at Jameco.com you can get them for about 20 cents apiece. That is where I have gotten all mine and haven't seen any issues. They use UPS for shipping. As for mounting them I would recomend mounting them as far from the key surface as possible. This will give you light a better chance to diffuse. Alos it might be a good idea, but time consuming to paint the inside of the keys white. This will help reflect extra light around inside the key.

[Outlaw]

Thanks for the link. 18 cents for a Red on that I think is 3mm.18cent Red LED (http://www.jameco.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?langId=-1&storeId=10001&catalogId=10001&productId=197616)

have to cut it short, got another interview.


BTW ++++++REP (only 1 time though, lol) Thanks again.

[Roughhouse]

actually that is a 5 mm. T 1-3/4 is 5 mm and T1 is 3 mm.

[Outlaw]

Thanks. I was wondering what that meant since it really didn't specify how they "sized" them. I donno if I just not looking hard enough or that I am looking too hard but all the white(clear) led's are 50+ cents a piece and the red ones are as low as 14 cents. Anybody know why the clears are so much more? I might have to change the coloring or swap the colors so I can keep the cost down. I don't feel like ordering 100+ leds at .50 a piece.

[Outlaw]

I tried the LED from one of my keyboards. I just removed the cover so the LED was exposed then it didn't light up when I hit the caps button to turn the light on. I tried using a 5v line directly to it, but it kinda pulsated and really did light up like I thought. The LED was still connected to the keyboard (the keyboard was not plugged in to the pc).

[Spawn-Inc]

interesting, i would just desolder, or cut if the leads are long enough, it and test it with the 5v line from a psu. if you have a free floppy power cable the led's tend to stick in the connector quit nicely.

[Outlaw]

Cool. I'll have to try it. Probably have to desolder since they aren't long enough. I do have a free floppy connector to use also (no floppy drive). Thanks

**update**
I was going through the wiki of LED suppliers and found THIS (http://www.ledsales.com.au/cart.php?target=category&category_id=3) The red 3mm LED for 3cents caught my eye and I was wondering if the specs would be any good for my application? ...and same for the clear (Osram) LED right next to it (10cents a piece). BTW these are the ones 2nd row from the top and the first 2 from the left side. Thanks again.

[Spawn-Inc]

those are only 30-60 MCD, i would go with the 6000mcd one at 0.25 4th row down first one. and go with the 6000mcd white ones. you can always undervolt them should they be to bright.

[Outlaw]

Cool thanks. So I will probably be going with these for thewhite/clear (http://www.ledsales.com.au/cart.php?target=product&product_id=25&category_id=3) ones and these for the red (http://www.ledsales.com.au/cart.php?target=product&product_id=135&category_id=3) ones.


But just after doing that. I noticed the AU after the .com. Mother!!!!!! this sucks!

[Spawn-Inc]

assuming your going with 10 or more then its only .69 (white) and .54 (red) at super bright led's.

how many are you looking at getting? one for each key?

[Outlaw]

Yes. I plan for 1 LED per key unless there is a better way to do it. I counted and just to round up to make sure I have enough and if I break any somehow I would get about 120(counted 100) white and 45(counted 34) or so red. I don't know if it would work, but I saw a thing on one of the websites that used 1 or couple LED's but had fiber cables coming off it. I donno if that would work if I were able to get small enough ones that I could shape them to the letter, but not sure if they would hand the bends.

[Spawn-Inc]

if you buy 100 white's it will nock it down to .63 cents a led. ok so now that i actually realize it would cost $63 for a 100 led's i would check out ebay. i got 100 infrared leds (3mm) for 21 or so shipped.

unless you can get clear keys then 1 led per key is the best option i think. using fiber optics i would be a lot more work IMO.

[Outlaw]

I agree with the fiber route. As usual, I forgot about ebay. I will have to take a look when I get home. Thanks!

**UPDATED**
I didn't get a chance to look at ebay yet but found this LEDTronics (http://www.ledtronics.com/) (which isn't listed in the wiki). From what I saw it looks like they need to be ordered in a minimum quanity of 250. Can someone else see if they can find something that maybe I over looked?

6000mcd (around that)
3-5mm in size
upto 12v (going to run off of PSU)

[Outlaw]

I was looking on ebay and the cheap LED's, lot of 100, are in hong kong....should I still consider going with them? Also I remembered talking to one of my friends and him mentioning the stealth version (http://webstore.ideazon.com/product.asp?pf_id=KW1NAE1-X1XP201) of my keyboard. I was thinking if I could just get replacement keys for my keyboard and swap them out. All I would need to worry about doing then is the wiring and LED's.

[Spawn-Inc]

ya i would contact the company and find out if you can get those keys, assuming they are clear, which makes sense.

edit: here (http://www.thebestcasescenario.com/modwiki/index.php/List_Of_Suppliers#LED.2FLighting) is a list of suppliers

[Outlaw]

Thanks for the link but I have already gone through it at least once. I don't think I missed any of them. From the pics, it looks like the character is clear with the rest of the key black. As long as they connect to the keyboard the same (don't see why they wouldn't) it will save a lot of time.

[Outlaw]

A friend of mine had suggested El Wire (if anybody else has, sorry). It is very flexible, bright and can be cut and re-used. Does anybody have direct knowledge of using this? I am probably going to be using several short segments of this and am wondering if there is anything I need to know about power requirements or if I need to run different power wires or just any heads up I need.

[Spawn-Inc]

it runs off an inverter (12v hook up via a molex), rendermandan used it in his turbine project, just send him a pm, or go through his worklog. here is a link (http://www.thebestcasescenario.com/forum/showthread.php?t=9129&page=8) for where here started using it.

[Outlaw]

If there is pictures, i'll have to look when I get home. Thanks for the link!

[Spawn-Inc]

yup, lots!
i'm not sure how it would effect the lighting though, i'm not sure if there would be enough space in between the keys and layout (the printed circuit board for the keys). but i'm not sure where your thinking putting it, so i will wait it out for that.

[Outlaw]

Depending on how I can get the keys cut out, I was planning on putting the El Wire in the key or somehow mount the wire below the key and get it to light up under the key.