Shhhh ! Someone is listening (NOT)

[Crazy Buddhist]

So ... worried about privacy? Don't want the feds or your neighbourhood jerk tapping the phone? There is an answer: Skype. Even if the authorities could gather the data from a skype call, with current computing power it would take over 10,000 billion billion billion years to decrypt the call.

From Slate: (http://www.slate.com/id/2095777)


Skype, which now boasts 7 million users, specializes in such encryption. The company's system is designed to thwart potential eavesdroppers, legal and otherwise. The difference begins with how the networks are designed: Both Time Warner and Vonage offer VoIP services that run through centralized networks. For instance, when I place a call through Vonage, it starts by going to a centralized Vonage computer, which in turn looks up the phone number I am dialing and routes the call over to the traditional phone system. This is a classic instance of a "hub and spoke" network. But Skype, built by the same people who brought us Kazaa, is a totally distributed peer-to-peer network, with no centralized routing computers (http://www.skype.com/skype_p2pexplained.html). (That's possible in part because Skype calls can only be sent and received by computers—you can't call a friend with an analog phone.) As a result, the company's network looks more like a tangled spider web, and the packets that make up your voice in a Skype call are sent through myriad routes to their destination. Part of the brilliance of the Skype software is that it has learned to use desktop PCs as "supernodes," each sharing some of the load needed to route Skype calls quickly to their destination. From the caller's perspective, this is all invisible: The call just works.

Since it's exceedingly difficult to follow the path that a Skype call makes through the network, law enforcement agents would be hard-pressed to figure out where to place a tap. But even if they could, the company has built in such strong encryption that it's all but mathematically impossible with today's best computer technology to decode the scrambled bits into a conversation. Here's how Skype explained it: "Skype uses AES (Advanced Encryption Standard)—also known as Rijndel—which is also used by U.S. government organizations to protect sensitive information. Skype uses 256-bit encryption, which has a total of 1.1 x 1077 possible keys, in order to actively encrypt the data in each Skype call or instant message." The point of all this mumbo-jumbo is that Skype uses an encryption algorithm* (http://www.slate.com/id/2095777#Correct) known as 256-bit AES. The National Institute of Science and Technology states that it would take a computer using present-day technology "approximately 149 thousand-billion (149 trillion) years to crack a 128-bit AES key." And that's for the 128-bit version; Skype uses the more "secure (http://csrc.nist.gov/CryptoToolkit/aes/aesfact.html)" 256-bit standard. Since computers have a way of quickly getting more powerful, the institute forecasts that "AES has the potential to remain secure well beyond twenty years."

Moreover, Skype says, the company does not keep the encryption "keys" that are used to encode each Skype transmission—each one is generated and then discarded by the computer that initiates the call. So government agents couldn't force Skype to turn over the keys needed to decrypt a call either.

[p0Pe]

nice Oo

[xRyokenx]

I'm glad I bought a premium account... I might even get my own number on there soon. :)

[Crazy Buddhist]

"Even though the Patriot Act has increased its ability to eavesdrop on Americans, companies like Skype are giving everyday people unprecedented freedom from government monitoring."

:)

[Airbozo]

"Even though the Patriot Act has increased its ability to eavesdrop on Americans, companies like Skype are giving everyday people unprecedented freedom from government monitoring."

:)

I expect this to change (if it has not already). The feds are requiring back doors into all encryption methods or they will ban them. Last year I saw a blurb about this in the renewal of the Patriot act (whoever named it that should forever loose rights as a citizen of the US). I will have to check to see if it was included in the renewal or not.

A TRUE patriot questions all the actions of their government.

I have not used skype in a long time, but stopped using any of the internet voice calls due to the crappy quality. I hated having to ask "what?" all the time. I thought it would be a great way to talk with the folks, but it was more trouble than it was worth. It was easier at the time to find that one spot in my backyard that the cell phone worked.

Is the sound quality any better now?

[chaksq]

I expect this to change (if it has not already). The feds are requiring back doors into all encryption methods or they will ban them. Last year I saw a blurb about this in the renewal of the Patriot act (whoever named it that should forever loose rights as a citizen of the US). I will have to check to see if it was included in the renewal or not.

A TRUE patriot questions all the actions of their government.But can the feds regulate non-American companies? I doubt it. Skype is based in Luxembourg not in the US so Skype as a company still remains out of the jurisdiction of the Patriot act. Even if they could bypass the encryption they would still have to find the calls as with Skype they are peer to peer.

I must be a true patriot because I have some serious questions on our government.

I also think I'm going to get a Skype number soon. Eventually for sanities sake I've got to leave this country, maybe not all the way, multiple citizenship sounds like quite a nice arrangement.

[crenn]

Wait the world isn't just USA? And here I thought Australia was mini america!

As for countries... there is always one huge flaw of countries.... their governments.

[Airbozo]

But can the feds regulate non-American companies? I doubt it. Skype is based in Luxembourg not in the US so Skype as a company still remains out of the jurisdiction of the Patriot act. Even if they could bypass the encryption they would still have to find the calls as with Skype they are peer to peer.

I must be a true patriot because I have some serious questions on our government.

I also think I'm going to get a Skype number soon. Eventually for sanities sake I've got to leave this country, maybe not all the way, multiple citizenship sounds like quite a nice arrangement.

Since the US government has classified encryption as "munitions" it falls under the all encompassing arm of "National Security". Basically gives the US feds free reign to do what they want (almost).

This dates back some time too. Remember the t-shirts that had an encryption algorithm printed on one side and a joke about national security on the other side?

An article from '96...
http://www.gcn.com/print/15_3/31644-1.html

[Trace]

Wow, I have to get out of the USA. Any countries you would recommend?

How much is skype?

[crenn]

I don't recommend Australia or Britian.

[chaksq]

How much is skype?I think it's free for just peer-to-peer, you can pay a small fee for calls to normal phones. Not totally sure on that so look up their website.


I don't recommend Australia or Britian.
I'm curious as to why not? I was leaning heavily toward Australia for a future move.

[Trace]

I may do an exchange student trip to Australia. They didn't have Britain, my first choice.

[Crazy Buddhist]

Few points from the above:

Skype is free peer to peer cheap to call phones from too (i.e. 1p/2c per minute UK to US)

At the moment the FCC just passed a ruling that "Free World Dial Up" do not have to make their VOIP calls traceable. Jury is out while their is an enquiry into technicalities.

Skype is based in Luxembourg and the software was designed ground up to be secure. It is not subject to the Patriot Act or US export restrictions.

Anyway you Americans are gonna vote in a sensible choice next year. .... Aren't you? ... please? ....

;)

Matthew

[Scotty]

But in that many years they will be able to crack it in a day? Sweet, i can't wait till then.

Thats seriously well encrypted.

[Crazy Buddhist]

I may do an exchange student trip to Australia. They didn't have Britain, my first choice.

UK is the most surveillance heavy country in the world.

[Scotty]

The UK is the worst place in this world.

Ok maybe not the worst but its definatley not the best.

[Trace]

USA is close to the worst. SO how is Australia?

[crenn]

Some things are more expensive than they should be. Example, PhysX cards

http://www.staticice.com.au/cgi-bin/search.cgi?q=PhysX
Roughly AUD$300

Now we go to America, eg Newegg.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/ProductList.aspx?Submit=ENE&N=2000380048+1305521460&name=AGEIA
About USD$130 or AUD$147.90

As for other reasons, Australia has:

-A government which sucks up to other countries
-Very crap broadband
-Drought
-High prices (I was listening to some internationals on the train one time.... complaining that it was a lot colder than they thought and the drinks were expensive)
-Crenn

[Helix666]

-Crenn

*crosses Australia off his list of places to visit*

j/k j/k :P

And CB is right. Britain has the highest ratio of CCTV cameras to people in the EU, if not the world. (So don't forget your tinfoil hat when you come to visit... ;) )

[p0Pe]

come to denmark:) under 1$ for a beer, a decent goverment, loads of cheap houses, and not to forget: ME!

[Drum Thumper]

Anyway you Americans are gonna vote in a sensible choice next year. .... Aren't you? ... please? ....

;)

Matthew

If we had a sensible choice, I would say yes. We're down to an astronaut, a woman who is willing to wave a white flag, and Ron Paul.

Sadly, I think Billary is gonna be back in office. With Obama as her VP.

[xRyokenx]

I might vote but I doubt it... I've got a lot of crap going (wr)on(g) in my life right now... too much for me to care about politics and I'm not just throwing one out there without doing some research. I can only hope someone reasonable gets voted in... because even though I'd love to move to Canada I'm just not up for the confusion of trying to move to another country right now, lol.

[Cannibal23]

this is complete nonsense. there is already government legislation that in laymans terms says something to the effect of ; if a type of encryption is commercialy available it may not exceed (some government agnecy) ability to decrypt.

there was even a company (cant recall the name) that got shut down because they developed a strong encryption that the government was not able to decrypt and refused to show them how.

also if they really wanted to tap your "call" they could just do it at your isp and capture packets being routed to your IP address. yes im a jerk... sorry

[Crazy Buddhist]

Legislation where? With what jurisdiction? Clearly not Luxembourg.

CB

[luciusad2004]

This makes me want to develop my own encryption scheme. But I would rather not go to jail for not sharing it w/ the government.

[Crazy Buddhist]

this is complete nonsense. there is already government legislation that in laymans terms says something to the effect of ; if a type of encryption is commercialy available it may not exceed (some government agnecy) ability to decrypt.

....

also if they really wanted to tap your "call" they could just do it at your isp and capture packets being routed to your IP address. yes im a jerk... sorry


1. Newsflash: US Gov doesn't run the world

2. Yes you are being a Jerk: read the article quoted in the first post. Even if they trapped the packets they can not decode them.

[Airbozo]

1. Newsflash: US Gov doesn't run the world

2. Yes you are being a Jerk: read the article quoted in the first post. Even if they trapped the packets they can not decode them.

1. - This would be a newsflash to the US government...

2. - I wonder what computer system they were basing their calculations on. I remember a couple of years ago at the Super Computer trade show, that IBM, SGI, Cray and NEC were touting each of their systems ability to de-encrypt specific bit length algorithms in a week. I will see if I can find the articles.

BTW even though they would not be able to decode the content of the packets, they could still see where it came from and where it was going.

[Crazy Buddhist]

1. - This would be a newsflash to the US government...

2. - I wonder what computer system they were basing their calculations on. I remember a couple of years ago at the Super Computer trade show, that IBM, SGI, Cray and NEC were touting each of their systems ability to de-encrypt specific bit length algorithms in a week. I will see if I can find the articles.

BTW even though they would not be able to decode the content of the packets, they could still see where it came from and where it was going.


1. It might be a news flash for George Bush but not for people with a brain.

2. No idea. Something very fast though.

Seeing where it came from and goes to doesn't tell you what was said ;)

[Airbozo]

1. It might be a news flash for George Bush but not for people with a brain.

Hehe, too true! Problem is, Shrub is just a puppet and it is the puppet master(s) who still believe this. (to the detriment of all Americans)

2. No idea. Something very fast though.

Seeing where it came from and goes to doesn't tell you what was said ;)

Yeah That important piece of info IS missing, but if you suspect a person of a crime, just knowing who they are calling is a huge piece of the puzzle.

There are several conspiracy theory's going around that the last outage of skype's service was due to the installation of monitoring equipment. It's all been unproven and discounted so far.

Pretty soon in the US, we will all have to be labeled as criminals until proven otherwise...

[Crazy Buddhist]

Yeah That important piece of info IS missing, but if you suspect a person of a crime, just knowing who they are calling is a huge piece of the puzzle.

Sometimes not knowing what was said could be a lifesaver. As you wrote:


Pretty soon in the US, we will all have to be labeled as criminals until proven otherwise...

What happens when they start their shoot first ask questions later policy in these circumstances?


There are several conspiracy theory's going around that the last outage of skype's service was due to the installation of monitoring equipment. It's all been unproven and discounted so far.


Those theories are rubbish. If Skype had done that after the public statements they have made they would be laughed out of court and sued out of business in a day.


Read this PDF book to understand what type of people run your country. (http://members.shaw.ca/jeanaltemeyer/drbob/TheAuthoritarians.pdf) (1.35Mb)
(Website - "The Authoritarians") (http://home.cc.umanitoba.ca/%7Ealtemey/)

[J-Roc]

1. Newsflash: US Gov doesn't run the world


Yet...

On another note, as far as i am aware US pesidents can only serve 2 terms in office. So kick his ass good bye.

On yet another note, register to vote then dont... You absolutly cannot in no way shape or form complain about the government unless you first register to vote. By not voting if that is your choice, you still have a voice.

[Drum Thumper]

Yet...

On another note, as far as i am aware US pesidents can only serve 2 terms in office. So kick his ass good bye.



True, but any President can declare Martial Law and suspend all government activities in the name of 'National Interest' as well.

I highly doubt he'll do it, but honestly, I would not be the least bit surprised if he does.

[luciusad2004]

Yet...

On another note, as far as i am aware US pesidents can only serve 2 terms in office. So kick his ass good bye.

On yet another note, register to vote then dont... You absolutly cannot in no way shape or form complain about the government unless you first register to vote. By not voting if that is your choice, you still have a voice.

Really? And here i thought our constitution guaranteed free speech. I think i have EVERY right to whine about my government whether I'm registered or not. Now whether or not people will take you seriously, thats a different story. But my ideas are not invalidated simply because i choose not to vote.

You are right about the 2 terms thing though. If all goes the way it should, Bush is gone. I predict a Democrat. America seems disgruntled w/ the way things are going. But maybe thats because i live on the internet and don't actually follow the news.

[chaksq]

True, but any President can declare Martial Law and suspend all government activities in the name of 'National Interest' as well.

I highly doubt he'll do it, but honestly, I would not be the least bit surprised if he does.This wouldn't surprise me either, although I doubt its likelyhood. If that were to happen I am out of this country within the day of this happening, possibly less than a few hours. I'll leave everything behind if I have to, I absolutely refuse to put up with any of that kind of BS.

[DaJe]

Alright, now you already know I've been using Skype for a long time. I'm even talked to you on it. And on a sie note, the article says 7 million users, but I've seen over 10 million on at one time. Now, onto my question. Do you have any idea if I'd be able to use Skype in place of my regular phone service? Something like, use it with my current phone number and a cordless phone, and just paying Skype rather than my current phone provider.

[xRyokenx]

You can get a Skype Phone and it works just like a cell phone or whatever but can only be used in a wireless network...

[DaJe]

Well that's just fine. I just want to be able to use the same number I have right now.

[Eclecticos]

Its all an Illusion.

http://img337.imageshack.us/img337/9393/opticalillusion01kq4.gif

[luciusad2004]

??? Whats the illusion? I don't see it