Global Warming - Duh

[TheGreatSatan]

Yeah right. Yesterday it was 73 degrees in St Louis. Eight hours later it was 20 degrees! Last night it snowed in Jerusalem! Global Warming, NOT!

[Zephik]

Maybe all of the "pollution" we are putting into the air is acting like a mirror and reflecting the suns rays from penetrating the earth, thus resulting in colder temps.

Meh, I don't particularly know for sure nor do I really care, but I just thought I'd share that thought I'd just had after reading your post.

But I agree, I don't think global warming is happening. I think the earth is fine. It could be cleaner and better kept, but its not in immediate danger or anything. I don't think it ever will be aside from a meteor or something of that nature.

[Spawn-Inc]

i don't think we should be as worried, but at the same time if we don't change our nasty ways something bad is bound to happen.

[Luke122]

I think calling it "global warming" is the wrong thing to do, as we certainly arent seeing warmer temps.

What we are seeing is "climate change".. honestly, the only places that are warming are the arctic and antarctic. Now despite that, 1-2'C warmer at the poles can have pretty dire effects on the rest of the world's weather.

As mentioned in another thread, the main problem is the shifting of ocean currents, which help to regulate temperatures around the world. As they shift, weather patterns change.. in some areas the weather change can be catastrophic. Imagine if suddenly all the major food producing regions of the world dropped in temperature by several degrees. Uh oh..

AL GORE WAS RIGHT.. about something or other.

Are these changes the result of increased pollution and "greenhouse gasses"? I'd love to see proof.. but at the same time, the correlation between increased emissions and pollution, and the radical changes in the environment are simply too strong to be ignored, even if there isnt 100% satisfactory scientific proof.

That's like saying that if everyone in the world bought a gun, and suddenly gun related deaths increased exponentially, they cant be related, just because you dont see people getting shot by other people, or people deny shooting each other. Just because you cant prove the two are related, doesnt mean they arent.

I hope that makes sense..

[Helix666]

How long ago was the world supposedly heading for another Ice Age?

The world has a cycle, caused by a slight wobble in it's orbit (or something). Now, correct me if I'm wrong, but the world was getting warmer around the Roman times. Then it got colder again.

IMO, while pollution is bad and we should all try to look after the Earth (after-all, it's the only home we have), human beings haven't been on earth long enough to make the kind of major change that would be needed for the climate to be thrown out of it's cycles.
Hell, one good volcano can throw out more greenhouse gases than humanity has in the past hundred or so years. ;)

In conclusion, pollution: bad. Using 'global warming' as a scare tactic: even worse.

(Yes, I may have gone slightly offtopic here... And I didn't really do much (if any) research to back up my facts, but... meh.)

[Airbozo]

I saw a discovery channel show years ago on the history of the earth's climate. They took samples from all over the world including deep ocean beds and the arctic and antarctic ice packs. All of the research shows that there is a cycle to the earth's atmosphere with or without humans involved. In one such case, there was a sudden shift in the ocean currents (the A/C of the earth if you will) that happened over only a couple of hundred years (extremely short time period as far as the earth is concerned). The oceans became less salty, slowing the currents and increasing the temperature, which in turn decreased the salinity again (due to ice melting). The water vapor then enters the atmosphere, increasing the salinity of the oceans which in turn lowered the temperature causing more water to be tied up in the ice, which cleared the atmosphere allowing more solar rays in. The cycle continues despite what we do. Many theories exist for different cycles and one of the cycles (a sudden one) is also correlated to the disappearance of LARGE animals (dinosaurs). One of these cycles is also correlated to the eruption of the Yellowstone caldera.

Here is an mpg of a simple example;
http://aes.gsfc.nasa.gov/vis/a010000/a010000/a010031/oceanconvey.mpg

The Coriolis effect also effects ocean currents through the surface winds.

Really good link to more info;
http://www.classzone.com/books/earth_science/terc/navigation/visualization.cfm

[Luke122]

In conclusion, pollution: bad. Using 'global warming' as a scare tactic: even worse.

Ignoring pollution: MUCH worse.

Whether or not it's causing the climate changes we are seeing, there is still far too much of it out there.

[Aero]

Ignoring pollution: MUCH worse.

Whether or not it's causing the climate changes we are seeing, there is still far too much of it out there.

True, I don't really think global warming is as big of an issue as people think, just 30 years ago people thought the planet was cooling, I think there was some plan to lay charcoal ashes on the polar ice caps to warm them up or something crazy like that.

But either way, pumping sludge into rivers and such is disgusting. Now I'm sure we have all done things that would have the EPA rolling over in its grave, but its still something we need to try and combat, pollution can ruin many of our natural wonders 1000000 times faster than global warming, and its something that does need to be addressed.

[noopypoop]

AL GORE WAS RIGHT.. about something or other.



Yea but hes not helping.,.... he drives a bigass SUV

[Quakken]

But just because he's a hypocrite doesn't make him wrong.

Personally, It's not my job to worry about it. I'm not a scientist.

[Luke122]

It's everybody's job to worry about it!

[Quakken]

I'm not going to fret over something that I can't really directly control and that might not even effect me. That doesn't mean I'm not going to go out of my way to pollute more or emit more "greenhouse gases", but it also doesn't mean I'm going to start riding my bike to school.

[Luke122]

That's just the thing though.. if everyone just rode a bike to school/work, that would make a HUUUUUGE difference.

I know that it's hard to comprehend the whole "one person makes a difference" BS (yes, I have trouble with it too), but honestly.. if you do it, and one of your friends sees you doing it, and decides to try it too, then it's two people.

For a start, I've been replacing all my lights in my house with energy efficient ones as the old ones burn out. I'm also recycling everything I can.. cardboard, plastic, glass, paper, etc. I'm very careful about keeping the temperature in the house regulated, etc.

Not only do these few simple things help keep my bills lower (direct benefit to me), but they also result in less energy consumption which means less output from power generating stations.

I've also expressed interest (and urged others to do the same) to our utility companies about investing into wind and solar power, and constantly urge friends and family to invest in high efficiency appliances and hvac systems.

I ride my bike everywhere I can in the summer, and if it wasnt so GD cold right now, I'd be riding it to work too.

[Quakken]

That's just the thing- I am too much of a fat lazy american to ride my bike places (not to mention there are no decent bike paths to my house (like >1 foot shoulder on the side of the road to the town that I live outside of, a large dropoff on one side of the shoulder and time-crazed drivers on the other side).

Besides, why would I ride my bike when I have a fully fueled car to drive? Sure. It would be kinder to the environment if I didn't, but I only get one life and I am not going to be bothered by a possible theory. I'm 16. I have places to go and people to meet. Things to do. Worrying about things I can't control is NOT one of them.

Sure. It's bad for the environment. It's evil.


it's convenient.

[crenn]

Who knows America's green car of the year? :D

As for global warming, I have a personal solution. Force vegetarians (the ones that don't eat meat because it's cruel) to eat beef! Cows are one of the biggest greenhouse gas produces. As for transport, engineering is slowly coming up with an answer to that. Electric cars is one step, but there is some exciting concepts coming up using hydrogen fuel cells.

[xRyokenx]

I've heard a few things, dunno how accurate they are, from various people about how there have been really good electric cars but the car companies usually buy them out or do something to keep it from developing enough to be sold. That's prolly just speculative rumors or something. :neutral:

[Omega]

I hate to be "that guy" mainly because I'm pretty adamant this most of the stuff you hear is a load of tosh, but here goes:

Hardly anybody does anything because of this "well I'm not harming anything" mentality. That's the problem. Sure, your actions might change MAYBE 1 or 2 ppb concentration of the CO2 and stuff in the atmosphere, but if you do that, and your coworkers take note, and so forth, what do we get? thousands of ppb. Which adds up to single digits ppm, and ppm is the sort of big measurement (it's "parts per million" btw).

It's not even that hard, too. Buy a bicycle, and rather than driving somewhere relatively close, bike. Or walk, even. I live in a town that's about 7sq mi and I walk everywhere. Sure, it takes longer, but think about your benefit too: You spend less money on gas, you get more exercise, and assuming you live in a nice to look at place, you get to see the scenery.

And if you don't want to walk or ride a bike, you could at least drive effeciently:

Take un-needed weight out of your car. That stuff you have in the trunk that you NEVER use? Get rid of it. Emergency supplies stay, that box of audiotapes can go, old books, useless road maps, etc. Less weight means the engine doesn't work as hard, meaning it uses less fuel, less fuel = less pollution. Top Gear did the math and figured that by shaving your mustache, you can save five pounds (roughly $10) a year in gas. Think of how light a mustache is. Now think of how heavy that crap in your trunk is. It adds up, really. If you have a car with removeable seats (Like a honda element or some minivans), take them out when you don't need them. That's a lot of weight, too. roughly 20-45lbs apiece. That wasn't even hard, was it? Takes probably a half hour TOPS assuming you're removing seats too and the payoff over the course of a year more than makes up for it.

You can also take shorter showers, which saves gas for heating water. Don't leave the faucet running. Turn off lights when you're not in the room. Get LCD monitors and televisions. Get energy-efficient washers and driers, etc. Also, if you live on the west coast (PG&E FTW), then PG&E will take your old appliance and give you like 15% off of your new one iirc.

You could also carpool. If you deal with Bay Area transit (San Fransisco Bay Area and surrounding areas), take public transportation on spare the air days (for those who don't know what that is, it's when the transit authority gives everybody free transit to encourage people to use public transit and not put out as much emissions, they're a resounding success here in the Bay Area).


Aaaaall kinds of stuff. I could probably go on, but you get the idea.

[Airbozo]

Good list Omega.

You live in a beautiful town so walking is also a benefit to the senses.

If I could ride my bike to work I would. It would take me 3 hours or more just to get to work on a bicycle, then I would be covered in sweat with no place to clean off. I once toyed with the idea of taking the bus to work. Going by the schedules I would have to take 6 buses and it would take almost as long as riding a bike IF they were on schedule.

The SO and I have been cutting our electricity, water and gas usage in the house by replacing old appliances, storing rain water for the garden, setting the heater at 52 during the day and night and only letting it get to 62 when we are home. We are looking into solar, but with the current technology, we would only get a benefit from it for about half the year. And not the cold half when we need it most. In a couple of years it will be better.

My rant about conservation; Because we are conserving so much, there is basically no where to cut anymore. The local water company is expected to mandate a 10% cut in usage, or you will get a fine. There is nothing left for us to cut. The county will not let us pull water from the nearby creek to water our garden (a big source of our vegetables).

Hydrogen fuel: Hype. "." It currently takes almost twice as much energy to produce hydrogen fuel for the equivalent BTU's as a gallon of gas. This is not going to change any time soon.

Biofuel: Converting farms to grow enough plants to produce fuel takes away from the land needed to grow food to eat. Plus it is not that efficient. Yet. Just saw a special on this and there is a plant that takes almost no water or energy to grow. It is the prairie grass that grows wild in most of the plains of the US (before we dug it up to plant better feed for cattle).

One of my professors said it best; "Think of your actions as a drop of water. Alone it is not that significant, but when all those drops are combined, you have oceans and lakes. Add that drop to one pond and the ripple effect IS visible".

[Luke122]

About the biofuel thing..

I've been following a local project here in my town, and it's something I'll talk about quickly. The local agricultural college (www.oldscollege.ca) has purchased their own Canola press, and are mixing canola oil into diesel, at 20-80 ratio, for all their vehicles and equipment. The ratio is low enough that even in the cold weather (and lately, the EXTREME cold) there is no more gelling of the fuel than usual. There is also talk of a partnership with the town to offer the biodiesel to us to use in our heavy equipment as well.

Now when we talk about biofuel being very intensive to grow, and taking up lots of potential food production areas, I think we need to keep in mind that if we are using a mix of bio and regular fuel, that we can stretch that area much farther. Yes, it's not 100% renewable, but it's a good start.

The possibility of using 100% cooking oil (used of course, which is just discarded by restaurants anyways) in diesel engines is very real. There is however a very serious side effect here.. in cold weather, the cooking oil turns into a solid. Yup, cant pump a solid through a fuel line. So there needs to be a heater in the fuel tank to keep it in liquid form. In warm weather though, no worries.

I actually met a guy at a stop light in Calgary, driving an old diesel truck, and he was running it on recycled cooking oil, which he was picking up for free from local cafes. They didnt have to pay to dispose of it, so there were happy, and he was getting free fuel, so he was happy.

He just pumps it through a filter, and puts it into his truck. That's it! No modification to the truck or engine necessary.. pour it in and go. Another benefit.. the exhaust smells like french fries. That's how I noticed him in the first place. :)

[NightrainSrt4]

Funny how this is brought up as today we watched The 11th Hour in college. Very good movie explaining the issues at hand. How it isn't one thing that is causing all this. Its everything we encompass as a society. Very interesting movie if this kind of stuff interests you guys. Much better than Inconvenient Truth.

The movie starts off pointing out our bad things and then goes into things we can do. Yes they cover Global Warming, overconsumption, overpopulation, the oceans, the icecaps, consumerism, waste. Just about all the topics that truly define our issue. The bring up how much of oil price is tax and how a way to fight consumption of fossil fuels could be to lower income tax and raise taxes on fossil fuel type things. Thus keeping the tax income the same but yet pushing away from the things that are poor for the environment.

One thing that I wasn't aware of that they bring up, which Ill have to research to validate, is how much the US spends to import oil and such. We borrow 250billion dollars a year from other countries apparently. No wonder the value of the US dollar is falling behind that of other countries.

Here is the preview video we had to do an assignment on before hand:

The 11th Hour (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7IBG2V98IBY)

Check it out if you get a chance. Whether or not you agree with everything in the movie is one thing, but I guarantee you won't finish the movie without thinking about the topics at hand quite seriously.

Ohh and don't worry about Leo, he shows up like 4 times for like 30 seconds, just narrating.

[XcOM]

with regards to using cooking oil in diseal cars, yes you can, infact i know someone that has for years.

and with regards to the oil turning solid, thats the fat contect that goes solid, if you filter it out, and thin it down with a tiny bit of flamable liquid your good to go.

It never freezes or goes solid

[crenn]

Regarding hydrogen fuel, those type of generators are still experimental but do show promise. It takes a lot of energy to generate the hydrogen, but they're looking at ways to do it including using only solar power to generate the hydrogen, or use a 'multiplier' effect.