HTPC sugjestions plz

[J-Roc]

I am thinking of making myself a HTPC. The only major problem is that im on a tight budget. I dont really have a set limit but funds are low and i'd like to keep the cost very resonable.

I need a mobo & processor combo thats good for multimedia and networking. I was thinking of nanoATX cpu combo but i doupt i can find somthing that really suits my needs in that size. So i'll probly have to go with microATX. Its probly my best bet as i want to have PCI-E grafix. The case i plan to use also has 4 expansion slots so i'd like to take advantage of that for latter upgrades like sound and maybe a wireless card. Memory isint so important, i'd be fine with cheap ddr400.

The best that i've seen in combo packs with PCI-E is a ECS & sempron 3000. Im a little worried that the processor lacks a bit. But for $60 on newegg its more than resonable in price, however newegg doesnt ship to canada.


I also need a grafix card thats made especially for video out. I dont need HD but it wouldnt hurt. My current GPU degrades the video out signal and costs me $250. I want to keep the cost down on this but have perfect video out. I wont be doing any gaming so horsepower isnt too important. I just want to play video's and watch tv. I was thinking of getting an All In Wonder card with a built in tv tunner but you cant buy thoes new so i might have to look for somthing on ebay. Maybe there is a better alternative?

I can get cheap hard drives and value memory is almost dirt cheap so im not concerned with thoes. Just a cheap cpu mobo and decent gfx solution.

Shine on,
J-Roc

[mtekk]

Right now, miniITX isn't ideal for a budget HTPC (few have x16 slots, and those that do are $230) they are expensive as are their processors (mobile C2Ds are pricey). So yeah microATX is the sweet spot right now.


My current GPU degrades the video out signal

Are you saying that it only allows something like 640x480? That is usually due to your tv not supporting anything higher, you need a HD tv (720p) to get any descent resolution. My old ATI rage fury pro did TV out at resolutions even exceeding what the tv could map. Most graphics cards come with tv out now days, I usually look for HDMI out as it is convenient (Digital video + Digital audio). For these, anything on this page (http://www.newegg.com/Product/ProductList.aspx?Submit=ENE&N=40000048&Description=HDMI&name=Video+Cards) should work. I know it's Newegg, but other places should have these. I guess I'd recommend the MSI low profile (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814127301) one if you need a LP card, it will do HD and just about anything out to a TV (has HDMI, S-Video and a S-video to component adapter).

For a TV tuner, get a Hauppauge WinTV-PVR 150, or some other Hauppauge WinTV-PVR, they have a built in MPEG2 decoder (less CPU demand) and work with Linux.

[Luke122]

720p = 1320x768 if I'm not mistaken. (or is it 1360..? either way..)

[mtekk]

720p = 1320x768 if I'm not mistaken. (or is it 1360..? either way..)

720p is 1280x720
1080p is 1920x1080

we won't talk about 1080i as 720p is more or less superior to it.

[J-Roc]

Well the max resolution of my tv out is 1024x768. And on the tv, everything is blurred a little, i cant make out regular text at all. Its noticable in movies and video aswell. It looks like im watching beta tapes or somthing.

So they dont make combo devices like the all in wonders anymore? I'll i found was PAL AIW's so thats not much help.

I thought of another question too, are tv tunners capable of decoding satelite signals? Would i need to route a dish through a regular decoder box then into the tv tunner or could i hook the dish directly into the tunner?

[edit]
maybe i should mention that i plan to use my coax a/v tv as the only display.

[mtekk]

You don't really want an all in one device. One thing is none of them have a pci express x16 connection, and they were never very good for recording (AGP is nearly a one way bus and they never had a dedicated decoder). They seem like they'd be good, but you can due much better with specialized cards, and you can upgrade the video separate of the tv tuner with separate cards.

If you want to route from a satellite dish, there are versions of the Hauppauge WinTV family that I think you can directly attach the cable to, some even have dual tuners.

[J-Roc]

I'll have to do a bit more reasearch on the on the satelite stuff. I think the dual tunners arent really a necessity right now unless there is a way to pump signals out through the second line to an auxillary tv. I can burn that bridge when i come to it though.

I'm really at a loss with the tv output. Even the new 3870x2's tv out is only 1024x768. I am unsure if i can use that for a day to day baisis. I'll have to see if i can make the quality any better by adjusting the resolution and tweeking the settings. I have an older tv and reciever right now but i'd like to still be able to use this htpc with it and be able to upgrade the rest of my stuff at a latter date without much hassle.

I might have to settle with the sempron combo to leave extra cash for a video card solution then what i had originaly intended. As for that, would you sugjest a higher class last gen card or a lower class current gen card? An example would be a X1650 pro vs a HD3450

[jdbnsn]

I use my computer as a gaming and HTPC. For the home theater portion the setup I have is winXP media center Ed (there are plenty of others but this works fine for me) which makes cataloging media pretty easy. It works as a DVD player, TV, DVR, TIVO (same idea anyway), radio, CD jukebox, photo album, portable media synchronizer, and a few other misc stuff. I have my regular video cards and for the tuner I use ATI's TV Wonder which works great as a TV and AM/FM tuner. For the remote control I have one of these (http://www.vlsys.co.kr/). Soundblaster ties everything together for up to 7.1 digital, DTS, etc... It's a good system, but I've never used any of the alternative products to make a comparison.

[billygoat333]

dvi output is = to hdmi basically, so you can do full 1080p with your computer as long as your card + tv can handle it. (at least i assume you can...)

http://www.optimization-world.com/uploads/images/products/hdmi_to_dvi_28f_small.jpg

just need an hdmi input on your tv. also, i read somewhere that your card must support HDCP, but not sure about that.

[OvRiDe]

Ok, I hate to be the spoil sport but there is a flaw in your process.
Standard Definition Televisions have a maximum resolution of 640X480. The reason that its "fuzzy" when you use a 1024X768 resolution setting on your TV out, is because its trying to interpolate a resolution of 1024X768 on a screen that is actually 640X480.
Unfortunately I have been bit thy the exact same problem. Another problem is apparently it isn't possible to transfer an HD signal through the coax connection or a composite video input on the back of a TV either. Which is why all the new HDTV's have either Component in, DVI, RGB, or HDMI. I was checking with my cable company about the cable box, and even if you have an HDTV and you hook up the coax instead of one of the other "digital" connections, the cable box scales down the coax output to Standard definition. The moral to the story is if you could get HD on a standard TV (ie 420p and above) then there would be less of a market for people to upgrade to an actual HDTV.

I have been round and round with the same questions and problems, so here is my suggestion, or at least my 2 cents.

Get you a mid priced microATX that has the Nvidia 6150 Chipset. This will have an embedded Nvidia GeForce 6100 series GPU with TV out. I would get a fairly inexpensive AMD 64 Single core processor. Maybe a couple of gigs of ram and how much HDD you think you need, An optical drive, and a power supply. You can probably get away with a fairly small powersupply 300W or so. Last time I added up a similar parts list, I was able to do it for between 200-300 bucks. You will probably also want to add the TV Tuner card, and I agree with Haupauge. That should give you a good start and should even last you if you happen to get a HDTV as well.

Good luck and hope this helps.

[Bopher]

most of the TV cards out there will receive FTA satellite (free-to-air). Its broadcast in MPEG-2 which is why computers can receive it so readily. Direct Tv and Dish network you're going to need a box with a subscriber card inside. And last I knew Direct Tv charged you an extra $10 a month for the extra receiver. Plus the cost of the dual dish nub (I can't remember the exact name) and the multiplexer if you have more then 2 connections needed. Boxes you can get for cheap on ebay, multiplexers were about $150 last I knew when I was selling Direct TV for Circuit City. The nub you can actually get for cheap if you have a satellite tv repair place around who is willing to part with one. or I think they ran $25 average. But everything could be cheaper now and I don't know what they charge you guys north of the border. Hope any of this helps you.

[J-Roc]

Well i thought i had just the right stuff. Tiger direct has some good deals but horrible shipping. I found the perfect mobo & cpu for $134, however shipping is 90 friken dollars!!! I had all the parts picked out for about $250 and some change but shipping for the whole lot would be $150. What a joke! $400 is way too expencive. I can get shipping from NCIX for like $20 on any order but they dont have combo deals which makes the individual components a little more expencive.

Overide, so what your saying is that with my older tv, no matter what i do its going to be "fuzzy"? I tried adjusting the resolutions and turned on high contrast in the accessabillity menu. Nothing helps.

bopher, what all will i need to get satellite on the computer? I dont currently have satellite but my neighbor has a dish he doesnt use anymore. Cables are nothing, will i need anything else?

[Bopher]

If you want to use the dish and subscribe to a service you're going to need:

1) Dish pointed at the right satellite.
2) Subscription tuner box.
3) PCI tuner card for the computer.

basically the tuner card in your computer will be set to channel 3 or video in if you use the RCA connection. The you'll change channels on the tuner box like you would for TV.
Pointing the dish isn't to hard to do your self. The tuner box has a signal meter telling you how well it's receiving from the satellite. Makes a lot of noise and has a yellow bar the increases and decreases with the signal. Plus if you go with Direct Tv they have on the site a little app that if you put in your zip code or city, then it will tell you to point 180 degrees Azimuth and 18 degrees on the Elevation. Mine here in Scottsbluff, NE would be E: 41.6 and A:164.7. if you can read a compass you can adjust the dish yourself.

[J-Roc]

Update:

Well it seems ebay came through in a pinch. I found a Biostar TF7050-M2 & Athalon X2 3600 going for $50. Thats the kind of price range im talkin bout! The board has all the HTPC goodies and a few advancments over the 6150 chipset. HDMI & Svideo onboard. From the review i read, the onboard 7050 graphics is the best available right now. The board has all the features i need/want and everything is current. Dual channel 6400 memory, PCI-E slot, Raid, and it looks hella cool allthough the colors dont match the theme i was going for but it'll look way better then the standard run of the mill PCB. The layout seems perfect too, since im going to invert the board for a psudo BTX look. All the stuff seems to be closest to where i plan to have the other components.

For thoes intrested, here's the review (http://www.pcstats.com/articleview.cfm?articleID=2111)

I'll postpone(?) buying the other components, since i have 4gb ram in this machine, i'll take 2 for the htpc. I also have a 20Gb HDD i can use temporary to get it started. I'll toss in a crapy cd-rom. The only thing i need to get right away is a PSU, nothing fancy but i want it to be modular to minimize wires inside the case.

[edit]
Seems emulating a tunner box might be illegal in some areas, even the Free-To-Air ones. Oops... Bopher, check your PM's.

[J-Roc]

Well as would be my luck, i was outbid in the last 2 minutes of the auction by $2... OMG! You guys have no idea how ticked off i am at that. Never the less, i got to get somthing to start this thing. Once again i am forced to return to NCIX for price and availabillity. To date i've bought over $5,000 of computer products from them. I feel i deserve some sort of coupon or rebate for spending a fortune there.

Anyway, i had to change the board up a little bit because there was an open box mobo deal. The board's from Biostar still but has an ATI TA690G chpset insted of the Nvidia7050 one. I dont think it will make a big diffrence. ATI is more in-tune with tv out functions than nvidia anyway. Plus the X1250 grafix can use 512mb of system ram as opposed to 256 on the nvidia model.

I had to purchase a more powerful processor that i first wanted aswell. I couldnt find anything cheap or available on ebay so i once again turned to NCIX. There was a weekly special deal that i took advantage of. An Athalon X2 4200+ for $69. NCIX doesnt have anything smaller for AM2 dual cores than the 4200. I would have been happy with a 3200 or a 3400 if there was one available for less money.

Total cost of the mobo and proc with local pick up is $152 or about twice as much as i was willing to spend.

Thank god my mom loves me! I have to use her credit card because my credit is poor. She doesnt mind much but i still owe her for my Razer AC-1 so i'll be paying her off untill im 50yrs old :)


Do you think the AM2 4200+ 2.2Ghz will have more horsepower than my Core2Duo E6320 1.8Ghz?