Web Design Class

[Aero]

Ok, so I decided I would take a Web Design class this year in school. (I'm a junier in High School). So up untill Tuesday we were using HTML, and just making our own websites. BUT now we started using Microsoft Frontpage. I nearly fell asleep the first day. And well, if I don't find something interesting/fun/informitive, I tend to ignore it and do other things...like how I do my English homework in US History...but anyway. I'm thinking about dropping my webdesign, I don't want it to hurt my GPA if I goof off in it, and I can just take an extra class next semester. Wondering what you guys think.

[[DGN]Nexus]

haha.. I'm taking web page design too! My teacher is so dumb.. She has us doing web pages in MS Word. We did HTML for about 4 weeks, did a project the last one, my group was the only one that completed everything.

[Aero]

our teacher let us download a program called CONtext. (hes the first teacher that taught us how to get around the schools firewall). But Frontpage has a wizard for everything, that takes more time than imputing the code itself, which gets on my nerves.

[weirdguy]

Microsoft? I use staroffice/openoffice
free!

[Myrdhyn]

i once took a class like this in highschool for an easy a and ended up teaching the class b/c I knew more than the teacher (read: moron) did so she just said teach the class frames today or tables today or w/e then went and sat down and surfed the web

[Bionik]

Lmao. Dude,yeah dont take a CLASS..wdf is gonna learn HTML and WebDesign froma big retarded teacher..Lmao..just learn from your friends..ive learned HTML Advanced,Photoshop/Slicing,PHP,MySQL Quiieres,etc..all in about 1year of surfing the net..and reading stuff..btw go to these forums if u want to learn anything!
www.clantemplates.com ( go to forums )

[slaveofconvention]

I agree with some of the comments above - the best way to learn html or anythin web-based tends to be self teaching - maybe with a reference book for the occasional tip and lots of surfing - I had a non-elective web-design module in university and the lecturer took one look at stuff i'd already done and said "Well, you know more than me and you could teach this class, come back in 12 weeks for the review or if you're really confident, 13 for the final exam" and compared to what i know now, what i knew then was peanuts.

[FX]

Web design is more than knowing HTML, PHP, MSSQL or MySQL....much much more in fact.

Knowing the tools is good, knowing the languages you'll use is good, but that's not what web design is all about. A TRUE Web Designer isn't someone who builds website, but rather knows what it takes to build a complete solution meeting the client's needs, and what it's going to take to do it. Funny things about schools that "claim" to teach web design, they don't....they teach you how to build a website and the basics surrounding it.

The best way to look at it is, it's like being an Interior Designer for the internet. You need to know the market your client is in, you need to understand what their demographic is looking for, the image of the company, the product or service that they're offering; then in order to be able to give them what they're after, you need to know what technologies are available, the different ways the end goal can be achieved, what kind of applications you're going to need to accomplish that, and then it's time to put it all together. Yes, that's what being a Web Designer is, not programming in HTML, PHP, ASP, CGI, or knowing SQL and how to build a database. You need to know those things in order to know the best way to get the final result your client is looking for, but you don't need to be an expert in those things. Web Developer, Web Builder, Web Applications Specialist, and Web Designer are all different things, and come with different responsabilities and skillsets.

If you want to be a good Web Designer, take Marketing and Business courses in addition to your "web design" course if you can. Web Designers need to know what the client's needs are before they do, how to give them the solution they're after (the first time), and how to do it at a price that'll fit the budget of the client. Unfortunately, that takes time to learn.

I really wish schools would quit saying they're teaching something they're not. There are about 4 dozen true Web Designers in the US, and about half that in Canada. There's a ton of work, and very few people that know how to do it right.

[Aero]

well, I took the class to get an easy "A", but no that its boring, and stupidly easy, I want to switch out. I know the best way to learn this stuff is of the net, but I still need to stay in school, so I wanted your opinions on whether I should stay in the class or not.

[crenn]

When I did "E-Biz" in high school... it was meant to teach you how to make webpages and use flash MX. I mainly played Quake 2 and LeiroX in that class..... I knew about 20 times more than the teacher.... including how to get into the student webpages when the server screwed up. When we were doing flash...... it was a waste of time, all students had to learn as the teacher did...... It only took 2 minutes to finish a 2 page worksheet and then gaming for another hour and a half. I eventually aced the clas when I found a few flash self-teaching and semi-mastered flash using ActionScript. I got all A+s that year.

[slaveofconvention]

Well you said it's an easy A - so stick with it - at the same time, take the advice listed here in addition to your existing plans - while you're sitting with nothing interesting to do during the class, look into and work on the other aspects of design mentioned above - you still get your A and who knows, you might ACTUALLY learn something about Web Design in Web Design class (but only cos you took no notice *grin* )

[Aero]

well, the problem, is I have about 2-3 sites to create right now, not based on the class. And a vst majority of the class is copying paragraphs out of books. Now I type EXTREMELY slow when copying stuff out of books. I can type at a nice pace if I am comig up with the paragraphs myself, but I can't read and type. Its like my brain is a P4 3.0 GHZ computer, sepratly I can think (and type) fast, but add in another process, and it slows to a crawl.

[[DGN]Nexus]

heh.. this convo got interesting fast... :)

I use CONText at home to do HTML work, but we can't download ANYTHING at school without people, like the tech director/compy nazi sending me to ISS.. bad experiences from last year. Here's the story about that:

I was in Drafting class and we got a new Tech Director person. Well, once a few teachers found out we had Halo and UT GOTY on some computers at school, he freaked and deleted everything that we had, even though we used them in drafting class for the map editor, and gave everyone limited rights. Well, by giving us limited rights he also limited the features in AutoCAD and Rhino that we used in the class, that were necessary. Well he gave a few of us admin rights back, some moron put the games back on, plus World of Warcraft and all of the Steam games, therefore he killed it again and put fortres on the computers. I was able to remove fortres twice by going through the registry. He got mad, blamed me for going to innappropriate sites, and gave me 3 days of in-school-suspension. i don't understand what the problem was? :D oh, thats last year, hehe, called me a hacker. ;)

[DickNervous]

Scarab has it right. "Web Design" really is a very generic and mis-used term. What you folks are being taught is how to use the tools to build a website, and trust me, that is both a valuable and necessary skill. The part that tehy don't teach is what Scarab is talking about and is the more valuable skill to have.

Anyone can learn to use FP or Dreamweaver or any of the other tools. Anyone can learn HTML, CSS, DHTML, Flash, PHP, ASP, etc. You can even learn them by yoursaelf, though a organized and structured class is better because there are things that you will hack your way thought and come up with a way to achieve your goals that isn't optimal.

The design of the site, the look & feel, interface, colors, etc. is much more difficult. Sure some of it can be learned via marketing, business, and UI classes. But there is also a creative part to it that simply can't be taught. *That* is what makes it difficult. Want an example, just look at the Hardware fo Humanity (http://hardwareforhumanity.org) site or the site I made for my WoW guild, Letum Immortalis (http://letumimmortalis.com).

I know HTML, some PHP, and how to use Dreamweaver very well. I know how to do some stuff with Photoshop and other tools. And I built both of those sites by myself, and they came out pretty good. But just the other day someone sent me an e-mail with some suggestions on how to make the H4H site less confusing when it comes to purchasing the raffle tickets. Very simple stuff, but I didn't think of it. I am sure some of you could come up wiht ways to improve either site (and feel free to send them to me) and make them more user friendly and intuitive or attractive. Over 5 years of building websites and I still have problmes with the "design" part.

So what your schools are teaching you is how to swing the hammer and put the wall up. Now what you need to learn is how to draw architect the house.

[FX]

Very nicely put DN. (Just can't push myself to call you "Dick")

[DickNervous]

Very nicely put DN. (Just can't push myself to call you "Dick")

I know, it's tough associating someone as intelligent and nice as me with the Vice President by calling me the same name.... :D

[Malignus Wingnut]

Dreamweaver MX.

Seriously though, dude. If you're looking at web design more than casually, that is the program that I use, and I have to say it is the best website development software I have ever used.

[Rankenphile]

Dreamweaver MX.

Seriously though, dude. If you're looking at web design more than casually, that is the program that I use, and I have to say it is the best website development software I have ever used.

Agreed.

And I agree totally with DN on every point he made. A class is good practice for swinging that hammer, and you'll probably end up learning a valuable thing or two in the process in spite of yourself - such as learning to type and read at the same time. GO throught he motions, get the easy A and move on.

As far as the design thing, I find what works best for me is to have a partner that I trust with decent design sense. I'm an okay designer, I think, but it is SO much better to have a second set of eyes helping you out as you work on things, to help smooth out the interface, how things function. Always design for the lowest common denomitator, as you will most certainly encounter them. Not everybody has years of experience navigating the web and has been part of its evolution. Some people still think of AOL as "The Innernet". If you ask many people what their web browser is, they will answer "Windows" or "Microsoft". This is true, and as painful as it is, these are the people who will be viewing your site, along with the other ubar-leets. Always, always, always design for simplicity and ease of use. Incorporate multiple ways of doing something. Draw out your planned site map in a series of tiers according to where the function is found - are all of the primary functions of your site available clearly and easily on the first tier? Are all of the sub-functions of each primary function available clearly and easily from the second tier in their respective section? Does your site require a third, fourth, or even a fifth tier, and if so, how can you simplify?

I often get caught up in making assumptions that the design will lead people into where they should go intuitively, and always and up overlooking simple things. Hence the second set of eyes. And my test group? Always my parents. If I can, I'll get my grandparents to take a look at the site. Neither of them are "web savvy", my grandparents least of all. And if they get lost in the first thirty seconds of the site, I've done something wrong.

Sorry, I'm beginning to ramble, but this is some food for thought. My cardinal rule for design is simplicity and aesthetics are crucial. If it ain't pretty, and it ain't easy, then your intended reader will find the guy's website that is similar to yours, but is easier and prettier, even if it doesn't work nearly as well. Every time.

[FX]

"If the information is there, but the person who needs it can't find it, the information isn't there." - Me

[DickNervous]

"If the information is there, but the person who needs it can't find it, the information isn't there." - Me

Whoa, that is like, trippy dude. :D