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View Full Version : I Have A Few Watercooling Questions



Lancelot59
07-02-2008, 09:26 PM
Hello there TBCS! I'm still in the midst of designing my system and wanted to ask some questions about water cooling. (I'm using THIS (http://www.thermaltake.com/product/Chassis/fulltower/armorPlus/vh6000swa.asp) case.)

My main thing is about distribution. I've seen this product where the main line from a res goes in and then there are several outputs that can be opened or closed as desired with a small valve. I lost the link and can't find it anywhere. For my system I'm planning to cool the North bridge and CPU.

Secondly I'm planning on building my own reservoir, I've seen it done on this site before but I'm unsure of what materials to use or where to get them from. I figure I'd make it 12cm wide and 8-6 cm high and mount it in 2 drive bays. Probably cylindrical.

Thirdly, what would be the best way to place the components? My idea is that I put the res in the bottom two 5.25 bays and then sit the pump on the bottom of the case somehow. Probably in front of the VGA fan holder, and just angle the fan up once it's in there so air blows over it. Then water goes to the distributor and then to the water blocks. From there to another distributor like the one that goes from the pump to the rad at the top of the case and then back to the res.
Makes sense to me.

I'm a complete noob when it comes to case modding and things like this because I've never really done anything like it before. Any opinions appreciated.

J-Roc
07-03-2008, 11:49 PM
Any manifold (distribution block) will decrease your flow rate (making the water move slower) and less effeciently through the system. The only way to combat this is to use a high pressure/flow pump which will probly cost you a lot more then a conventional pump. Your best off to use Daisy Chain plumbing where you have one circuit where the output from one block gets fed to the intake on the next block. AVOID ANYTHING WITH VALVES! Turn the valve off accidentally and you component has NO COOLING! (exception would be a fill/drain port)

Lexan, plexi, and arylic are all good for making reservoirs. You just need some special glue to hold it together.

The placement of the components inside the case doesnt really matter a whole lot. Just make sure you plumb everything correctly. Typical scheme: Pump>Block1>Block2>Radiator>Reservoir then back to the pump.

Lancelot59
07-03-2008, 11:58 PM
Hmm, but wouldn't that mean that the next block in line gets warmer water, and hence less effective cooling?

Those materials are easy enough to get...I think. Would a two-part epoxy work for that sort of situation?

Also, I heard it was better to have the reservoir at a relatively high spot to help bleed air bubbles that form in the system. Or do they not really matter as much?

J-Roc
07-04-2008, 12:23 AM
i have my pump & res bolted to the bottom of my case and had no trouble bleeding the air out. my res has a fillport.

Cool the CPU first, it needs it most. The northbridge is natrually hot, probly +60c on the stock cooler. So cooling it down with "warm" water from the cpu is still going to cool it down to 30-40c which is a big help. If you add a GPU block, make sure its last. It generates the most heat out of any component and supplying it with 40c water is a massive improvment when it runs at 60-70c on the stock air cooler.

i cant help you with which glue to use for your reservoir. its not my area of expertice :)

Lancelot59
07-04-2008, 12:47 AM
So I'd have to include a fillport with the res I build.

You said a distributor trashes the flow rate. I guess because the water has to make sharp turns. But what if I used a smoothly shaped splitter, like a Y shaped one? Would that still restrict the flow?

J-Roc
07-04-2008, 01:12 AM
Fillport? only if you want to put fluid in... lol

Sharp turns will impeed the flow rate but thats not exactly what im talking about.

Assuming you use a standard pump rated at 500/Lh. when you split the line in two, each line will have a flow rate of about 250/Lh. If you use the daisy chain, the whole system moves at 500/Lh.

Does that explain it?

Cheron
07-04-2008, 04:58 AM
that is not completely true back sometime ago i tried parallel water cooling on two 6800gt gfx cards and the water would take the shortest route with the least resistance. this contributed in a 14c hotter GFX card than the other.

just my two cents.

yours Cheron

The boy 4rm oz
07-04-2008, 09:34 AM
Listen to the birthday boy, it is true lol.

Yes running water from the CPU to the northbridge will result in warm water going to the northbridge but this is unavoidable.

This is how my loop will be running:
res> 240mm radiator> pump> CPU block> 80mm radiator> GPU block> 120mm radiator> fillport> res

Have you selected any blocks or pumps yet? Got any brands in mind?

Also if you are going to be using the case you linked to I would recommend having the reservoir in the top drive bays to take advantage of the flip top res cover which the case is designed with. If you make the res with a built in fillport it will make it a lot easier to fill the system that way.

Lancelot59
07-04-2008, 01:37 PM
Assuming you use a standard pump rated at 500/Lh. when you split the line in two, each line will have a flow rate of about 250/Lh. If you use the daisy chain, the whole system moves at 500/Lh.

Ok that makes sense.


that is not completely true back sometime ago i tried parallel water cooling on two 6800gt gfx cards and the water would take the shortest route with the least resistance. this contributed in a 14c hotter GFX card than the other.

Well I'm not going SLI yet, and I think I might just let the GFX card cool itself with the included sink.


Listen to the birthday boy, it is true lol.
This is how my loop will be running:
res> 240mm radiator> pump> CPU block> 80mm radiator> GPU block> 120mm radiator> fillport> res

Have you selected any blocks or pumps yet? Got any brands in mind?

Also if you are going to be using the case you linked to I would recommend having the reservoir in the top drive bays to take advantage of the flip top res cover which the case is designed with. If you make the res with a built in fillport it will make it a lot easier to fill the system that way.
I'm not entirely sure that top hood goes all the way through. It says there's a toolbox, but that shouldn't be hard to remove. I haven't gotten the case yet. I'm still picking parts out for the machine it's going to house. I also plan to replace that top section with something bit better shaped. Once I get the case I can plan that though.

Now that you mention it I haven't picked any specific parts out. What do you think are some good brands?

Spawn-Inc
07-05-2008, 03:05 AM
you should always run series, the water dumbs the heat out so fast that it won't make a difference. it not only looks cleaner but is better in general. the only thing you need to worry about in terms of loop order is that the res is before the pump, the rest doesn't make any worth while difference.

Lancelot59
07-05-2008, 01:14 PM
Series it is then, so what are some good brands for pumps and water blocks?

The boy 4rm oz
07-05-2008, 09:12 PM
Ok ,Spawn can back me up with this.

Pumps:
Laing pumps are basically the best you can get. Both Danger Den and Swiftech copy their designs so if you go DD or Swiftech you are set. I recommend the Laing DDC series of pumps.

Water Blocks:
Danger Den, Swiftech and D-Tek and EK all make good stuff. Danger Den stuff is a bit pricey and usually is beaten by the D-Tek and Swiftech stuff. The EK blocks can sometimes be hard to find but perform very well, well worth the money. The Swiftech Apogee GTX and the D-Tek Fuzion (V1 or 2) are my pick.

Radiators:
The Swiftech radiators and the HWLabs Black Ice series are both very good radiators. The Swiftech slightly edging out the Black Ice radiators. For maximum performance from your radiator nothing goes past Thermochill or Feser Company radiators, however these both have a very steep price.

Hope that helps.

Spawn-Inc
07-05-2008, 09:44 PM
pumps - Swiftech MCP 655, or the MCP355 there are variants of those 2 pumps from other brands such as danger den, and i think laing is a brand. there good too.


for blocks (cpu) Dtek fuzion v2 is the best out there so far. other good blocks are swiftech Apogee GTX, Apogee, Storm. dtek Fuzion (first one), ek has some good ones too. Danger Den TDX is good as well i believe.

EDIT: ya go with what Tb4o said. he knows more about the pumps then me. i was unaware that laing was the design and swiftech copied them. and he also added the rads which i agree with, though me personally i don't like the black ice line all that much, but thats not a really fair statement on my part as i have no proof there bad.

The boy 4rm oz
07-05-2008, 10:34 PM
Yeah most of those designs are Laing, they were just copied and adapted. That's why the DD D5 and the Swiftech pumps have very similar specs.

Lancelot59
07-05-2008, 11:48 PM
Yeah most of those designs are Laing, they were just copied and adapted. That's why the DD D5 and the Swiftech pumps have very similar specs.
That makes sense.

I wouldn't think these parts would be so pricy.

The Feser Company's site made me lol. Such a funny voice. You weren't kidding about the high prices. I like the Black Ice and Swiftech rads. The EK ones are too far out-of-country.

The Apogee GTX and D-Tek blocks are fairly decent. The site lacked prices though.

I'm liking the MCR120-QP from Swiftech and some of the Black Ice ones. Black Ice has so much to choose from...I'm lost there. I need a 120mm rad.

For some pumps it said there was a RPM signal on a 3 pin connector, is there a separate control for these? I'm thinking either THIS (http://www.swiftnets.com/products/mcp355.asp) pump or it's close relative. That circular one is really expensive.

Also what are some good resellers for North America? I've never bought anything from any online stores before.

Spawn-Inc
07-06-2008, 01:18 AM
well i got a cpu only loop, with the room to add more stuff, for 290 and its pretty high end stuff from Jabtech. for some reason they have the pump you want (MCP355) the same price as round one you speak of, MCP655 so i went with that one.

here is a list of what i got.

1x Swiftech MCP655 Pump (https://www.jab-tech.com/Swiftech-MCP655-B-12-VDC-Pump-Without-speed-controller-pr-3803.html) = 69.99
1x D-tek FuZion V2 (https://www.jab-tech.com/D-tek-Fuzion-V2-pr-4155.html) = 63.95
1x Swiftech MCR 320 rad (https://www.jab-tech.com/Swiftech-MCR320-QP-K-Triple-120mm-Radiator-pr-3320.html) 53.95
12x ClearFLEX 60 Tubing 1/2" ID / 3/4" OD (https://www.jab-tech.com/ClearFLEX-60-Tubing-1-2-ID-3-4-OD-pr-2431.html) = 10.68
6x YATE LOON 120mm Case Fan (https://www.jab-tech.com/YATE-LOON-120mm-Case-Fan-D12SH-12-High-Speed-pr-3771.html) = 19.80
2x Pentosin G11 Long life Coolant Blue (https://www.jab-tech.com/Pentosin-G11-Long-life-Coolant-Blue-pr-3707.html) = 7.00


total = $225.33

there was some other stuff and shipping which made it come out to 290.


EDIT: i am going to add XSPC to my list for blocks, not cpu but video. i am really tempted to order a 9800GTX block as i have just ordered a GTX

it look soooooo frigggen sexY!!!!!!!

http://www.jab-tech.com/xcart/product_images/detailed/d_4405.jpg

Lancelot59
07-06-2008, 08:41 PM
Why bother with a 9800? Go for a GTX 280!

Also is special coolant really that good? Or can I just use radiator fluid from a car, or distilled water?

Also, are anti-kink coils really that useful? And what are the better types of tube material?

Spawn-Inc
07-06-2008, 10:15 PM
don't have the funds for a GTX 280 just yet... i got a smashed up car to fix.


as for coolant the G11 stuff is rad fluid from VW's. as for tubing i got 1/2" id with 3/4" od so it is hard to kink, the coils do work from what i hear but i just went for bigger tubing rather than coils. clearflex is what i used and its worked out good so far.

The boy 4rm oz
07-10-2008, 01:35 AM
A good alternative to the Swiftech radiator that Spawn listed is a Black Ice GTXtreme, a good contendor. Also AlphaCool radiators are a cheap but well performing alternatively.

Lancelot59
07-10-2008, 01:58 AM
Yeah I took a look at those. They seem decent.