The cost of building

[.Maleficus.]

After recently getting a new job selling computers at Best Buy, it's come to my attention that OEM computers are now getting to be very inexpensive (note that I didn't say cheap). Case in point - my mom's 6 year old HP just took a crap and she needed a new desktop. Of course I could have built her one but after thinking about it a bit, it seemed like a pretty bad idea. I told her about a deal we had going on a new Gateway and it was the obvious choice. Here are the specs.

--Note: My mom is a Spanish teacher who uses computers primarily for Word/Powerpoint and checking her email. Very basic use, though she does like speed.

Gateway GT5692 (http://www.gateway.com/systems/product/529668103.php)
AMD Phenom X3 8450 (2.1GHz) with a Coolermaster heatsink
4GB PC5300 (2x2GB, expandable to 8GB)
500GB Western Digital SATA HDD
DVD+/-RW drive with Labelflash
ATI Radeon 3200 with HDMI-out (256MB shared memory)
Random motherboard with AMD 780G chipset
15-in-1 card reader
Vista Home Premium 64-bit

As you can see, a fairly decent computer. With a free PCI-E slot, it wouldn't be bad at all for games, with a free PCI slot you could throw a TV-tuner in there and have a pretty nice media center, and for $550 you really can't go wrong. Vista Experience Rating gives it a 3.9 on graphics which is understandable, but everything else is at 5.2 or higher (scored two 5.9's). Turns out the 780G is actually a fairly decent overclocker as well, with 90-100% overclocks on the IGP (graphics core).

Here's what I'm getting at though; do you think I could have built something comparable (or better as the case used to be) for the same price? Vista by itself is a pretty good chunk of that, and since I don't currently own it it would need to be added to the bill. To make it fair, speakers/mouse/keyboard would need to be added as well, since I got them in the box.

So, can anyone do it (show me a parts list that's better or cheaper at equal performance)? Has building gone back to an enthusiast-only market? Is it now time to buy OEMs and swap out what you need for a little more performance boost? I'll have to pull the side off one more time to see if I can get a model number on the motherboard, but in the mean time, discuss! Being a system builder and OEM salesman, I'm quite torn on the issue. I love the feeling of pulling out a brand new motherboard, but if it's a waste of money I'm not being a smart consumer.

[Durrthock]

Just like I was thinking about my new computer (ill post spec's later) Your probably could have, but you wouldn't get the warranty or tech support, which can be helpful at times.

[nevermind1534]

Did that gateway have any mail in rebates? If it didn't, that's a sweet deal for a prefab.

[.Maleficus.]

Did that gateway have any mail in rebates? If it didn't, that's a sweet deal for a prefab.
Nope. Retail price is $549, which is why I jumped on it. Triple core, 4GB of RAM, 500GB hard drive and a Radeon 3200 with HDMI-out. I thought it was a pretty awesome deal.


Edit:

Just like I was thinking about my new computer (ill post spec's later) Your probably could have, but you wouldn't get the warranty or tech support, which can be helpful at times.
This is true, however manufacture warranties really only cover manufacture defects, ie, lemons. I did go ahead and buy a service plan through Best Buy but I'm only looking at this part-for-part. Can something like this (tower, keyboard, speakers, mouse) be setup for $549?

[moon111]

When I've done the calculating myself, the cost of a legal OS has been the real difference. If you're using old parts in the build, that too can cut costs. I bought/begged/rebuilt the parts to build a basic, non-gamer system, wrapped in a heavily modded case for just under $200. No OS. Of course I didn't buy anything from a computer store chain. Their 'sale' prices are all 50% more then elsewhere, the service is usually rude and perplexing. As for a warrenty, personally I rather buy a new motherboard. It's easier then to have to deal with endless hours on the phone with tech support just to get the chance to get a refurbished part that just keeps getting sent out until some frustrated soul gives up and just ends up keeping it. Then there's the certain satifaction one gets from building their own system.

[Tavarin]

The way I see the computer market, you save money as a system builder with high end gaming machines.
You can always build a powerful gaming machine cheaper than any manufacturer will seel it, and can even save as much aa $1000.
But as soon as you move into the sub-$1000 market the OEM system will always win in price, it's just the way the market works.

[nevermind1534]

I just saw an HP on newegg with re-certified ram in it.


When I've done the calculating myself, the cost of a legal OS has been the real difference.

My dad got an unlimited install xp from U-M, so I'm covered there, with xp, at least.


If you're using old parts in the build, that too can cut costs. I bought/begged/rebuilt the parts to build a basic, non-gamer system, wrapped in a heavily modded case for just under $200

I nuilt my parents' computer for $120. I used an OEM DVD burner that was previously purchased from Computer Builders Warehouse for $20, and was in their old computer, and a hard drive that was in a computer out of the trash with a dead PSU, so those didn't count towards the cost. I got a new case and power supply for free with a MIR and a $30 off combo with my motherboard.


As for a warrenty, personally I rather buy a new motherboard. It's easier then to have to deal with endless hours on the phone with tech support just to get the chance to get a refurbished part that just keeps getting sent out until some frustrated soul gives up and just ends up keeping it. Then there's the certain satifaction one gets from building their own system.

And the standard warranties aren't usually that long. I've seen a lot of dells where something breaks a few days after the 90 day warranty expires. Somebody even wrote into the paper about their $3000 ailenware computer that something broke in one day after the 30 day warranty expired. It sounded like the RAM, so it would have been an easy fix if he knew. I've also found that the extended warranties are usually rip-offs. The extended warranty might cover a part that would break, that would most likely be of lesser, or equal value, which is obsolete when it breaks.

[Durrthock]

My dell that Ive been using for almost 3 years is still under warranty and when its gotten messed up Ive asked them "if something is broken will they replace it" and the will, Equal or greater value.

[nevermind1534]

My dell that Ive been using for almost 3 years is still under warranty and when its gotten messed up Ive asked them "if something is broken will they replace it" and the will, Equal or greater value.

I was just saying that something that breaks is usually somewhat inexpensive to almost nothing. Some manufacturers are also beter about this than others.

[Dane Bramage]

part of my job is to maintain the "fleet" at my small office. when i got here, we had only one "newish" computer (a dell) and the rest were older than dirt. so, over the last couple of years, i have replaced them all. generally speaking, i can build a good sytem (using bare bones kits from tiger direct) for under 700 bucks, but that doesn't generally include monitor/key/mouse. why just today i saw this kit (http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/SearchTools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=3978475&CatId=332) at tiger direct. so... for 300 bucks, you can start with a pretty nice rig.

but really, it's a double edged sword. i like to hand choose my hardware and sometimes the good deals just don't have great components. take for instance the Gateway in the OP. it came with a "random" mobo... heh heh... never heard of that brand :think:

tho, in the end, for mid-range systems, you can't beat the deals that the boxed systems offer. my mom bought a gateway herself and is perfectly happy with it.

so really, i think you may be right. for the folks that just want a word processor/email client, a 500 dollar gateway is hard to beat.

[nevermind1534]

so really, i think you may be right. for the folks that just want a word processor/email client, a 500 dollar gateway is hard to beat.

Unless you use parts from the existing computer that you are replacing, or parts from the trash.

[FuzzyPlushroom]

As for that $500 Gateway...

Indeed, as a basic computer, with no existing bits/no time or interest in building your own, it's a good deal. But there are some caveats: the power supply is barely adequate as it stands, often forcing you to replace it (it's junk anyway, built down to a price) if you want to put in a proper video card or more than one extra drive. (Not much of an issue for most home users.) A self-built PC can also take almost any form - compact yet reliable, medium-size and nearly silent, gaudy or subdued. Prebuilt computers, however, almost invariably have a cheap look and feel to them (in my experience) - a friend of mine has a recent Gateway, and my current case, despite being fairly cheap, ten years old, and chock-full of missing screws and broken clips, is still considerably sturdier, better-built.

The hardware itself is a good deal - but you have to know what you're getting into.

[PartyLikeARockstar]

As for that $500 Gateway...

Indeed, as a basic computer, with no existing bits/no time or interest in building your own, it's a good deal. But there are some caveats: the power supply is barely adequate as it stands, often forcing you to replace it (it's junk anyway, built down to a price) if you want to put in a proper video card or more than one extra drive. (Not much of an issue for most home users.) A self-built PC can also take almost any form - compact yet reliable, medium-size and nearly silent, gaudy or subdued. Prebuilt computers, however, almost invariably have a cheap look and feel to them (in my experience) - a friend of mine has a recent Gateway, and my current case, despite being fairly cheap, ten years old, and chock-full of missing screws and broken clips, is still considerably sturdier, better-built.

The hardware itself is a good deal - but you have to know what you're getting into.


I couldn't have said it better myself. Ask anyone who's ever replaced a (literally) burnt-out Dell power supply.

[TheGreatSatan]

What's the Vista experience score on that triple core? The quad is 5.9

[halcyonforever]

I used to build computers for my friends and family because you could save a ton as parts over pre-builts. Really not so any more, I actually tell people to buy a prebuild that suits their need, and buy as much warranty as you want to keep the computer. I actually refuse to do builds anymore because I absloutely refuse to be their 24/7 customer service line.

Personal recomendation, never build a computer for family, anything breaks you will fix it long past the lifetime of the computer.

[TheGreatSatan]

I usually tell people to buy retail then upgrade the graphics and RAM if needed.

[nevermind1534]

I have quite a few dells that had burned out PSUs, because the fan failed.

[.Maleficus.]

@FuzzyPlushroom - The power supply is actually more than adequate; I've got this hooked up to my KillAWatt right now and I'm drawing 160W, which the 300W in here can easily handle. And a custom build can indeed take any form but aesthetics add a substantial amount to the cost. As for this case, it's quite sturdy and the stainless front looks pretty nice IMO. The case is all steel (and it's pretty thick) so this thing weighs a ton.

@TGS - The score on the CPU is 5.2, RAM is 5.9 and so is HDD. Video card is 3.9 but that's to be expected.

@halcyonforever - I feel the same way. I used to tell people just build one but now, if anything goes wrong I'm to blame and I don't roll that way. I can't give someone a warranty and I will not be a free support line, period.

[Xpirate]

Tech support from Gateway could not resolve a problem I had with the CD-ROM. I figured out how to fix it from Google. They also set up my PC to be single user, so when I tried to add other users, I had these horrible problems. Their tech support could not resolve those problems either. I had to have a long Google session to fix it.

Don't buy a ready built PC just because you get tech support for a short time. Usually, it is not worth it.

[xRyokenx]

My uncle got a package deal Dell with a Q6600, 6GB RAM, 650GB HDD, and a 350W PSU all for $500 by itself. Of course it was in a package so he got it for that price when he bought speakers and a really nice monitor with it. I slapped my old 8500 in there and it runs great. All in all he got a good deal as the parts for that system would probably have run about $500 and then tack Vista on the price tag and he probably saved about $50 or so with it. Depends on what you want to do, really.

I put a cart together on Newegg and it was about $520 for just the tower before the OS and I had a C2D (can't remember the model but it was mid range), 2GB RAM, 160GB HDD, CoolerMaster Centurion case, 500GB PSU, and a 3870 in it.

All in all, prices vary a lot. I personally won't be building another computer for a while (college) and plan on getting a Mac after college to make music on. We'll see what happens, lol.

As to that Gateway, I haven't had one before and don't know about how their service is but the specs look alright to me. Look around and see what else you can find, good deals just pop out of the woodwork, or so it seems.

EDIT: Another idea, throw a similar PC together on Newegg and see what the price comes out to be. I'm certain it probably won't be as cheap but you never know.

[nevermind1534]

500GB PSU

You mean 500W?


EDIT: Another idea, throw a similar PC together on Newegg and see what the price comes out to be. I'm certain it probably won't be as cheap but you never know.

I'll try that now. I'm assuming it has budget ram, a cheap PSU, and a mATX motherboard?

[nevermind1534]

OK, with $477.23, you can get everything, except for vista, with no mirs, but with a 640GB HDD. You can get a 750GB one for the same price with a mail-in rebate. You could then get an OEM copy of Vista. This is assuming that it has a mATX motherboard and DDR2 800. You could probably spend a little less on the monitor and speakers and everything else, though. That is for the $500 Dell.

[xRyokenx]

Yeah, I meant watts... lol.

I think it does have the mATX mobo and the DDR2 800... it still works great though.

[.Maleficus.]

Keep in mind folks - I haven't yet found the manufacturer of my mom's Gateway but her old HP had an Asus so they aren't all bad ;).

[nevermind1534]

But those boards that they used in that HP, if it's a socket 370 were prone to failure.

[luciusad2004]

I hate to say, I've been noticing this as well. I'll go on to newegg expecting to set up an awesome rig for dirt cheap only to find that it costs a bit more than expected. Then the next day ill browse through the adverts in the newspaper or whatever and find that i could easily get a decent rig for the same money or less than the one i was trying to set up via newegg. As mentioned earlier, the OS is often a deal breaker. I also find nicer power supplies and better mother boards tend to increase the cost quite a bit. If you just want cheap junk at a low price, you can build yourself a computer, but I don't know how long it will stay running.

Since i probably wont be in the market for $1500+ machine for a long, long time, I probably wont get a better deal building by myself. I'll still do it for the love of it though.

[FuzzyPlushroom]

...buuuuut you save money when you upgrade - or don't have to. OEM machines (aside from Dell and some HPs) tend to use bottom-shelf PSUs (remember (http://www.driverheaven.net/hardware-discussion-support/162908-another-dead-emachines-bestec.html) the (http://www.fixya.com/support/t338161-motherboard_taken_out_emachines_bestec) eMachines (http://sci.tech-archive.net/Archive/sci.electronics.repair/2008-01/msg00524.html) Bestec (http://www.wirelessforums.org/alt-comp-hardware/e-machines-t2898-desktop-24571.html) snafu (http://www.badcaps.net/forum/printthread.php?t=1336)?), motherboards, etc - and those that don't have onboard video are generally a bad deal, as once you get over the 600-700 dollar mark you can build a better system for your money. Additionally, if you wish to upgrade the case or motherboard, you'll often have to do both at once (which you'll likely want to, since both are built down to a price).

I was pleasantly surprised, recently, by an Acer - Foxconn mATX motherboard with Japanese capacitors and a vacant PCIe x16 slot, Fortron (FSP) 300w (I believe) power supply. (This was an unremarkable AM2 machine, dual-core 4400+ [which I ended up swapping out for my old 3500+] and two gigs of RAM.) Standard mATX layout, too, and it seemed fairly solid. Seagate HDD, for those of you who care. Based on that sample alone, I'd consider an Acer first off as a basic prebuilt machine.

[nevermind1534]

[QUOTE=FuzzyPlushroom;198794]tend to use bottom-shelf PSUs (remember (http://www.driverheaven.net/hardware-discussion-support/162908-another-dead-emachines-bestec.html) the (http://www.fixya.com/support/t338161-motherboard_taken_out_emachines_bestec) eMachines (http://sci.tech-archive.net/Archive/sci.electronics.repair/2008-01/msg00524.html) Bestec (http://www.wirelessforums.org/alt-comp-hardware/e-machines-t2898-desktop-24571.html) snafu (http://www.badcaps.net/forum/printthread.php?t=1336)?)/QUOTE]

Yes, this happened to my grandparents' computer. The PSU, motherboard, one of the two sticks of ram, and the keyboard were all dead, and all had to be replaced. Luckily, I had just purchased a motherboard/CPU kit cheap from newegg that fit in the emachines case. I just put their cpu in the new motherboard, and I'm still stuck with the celeron 2.5GHz that came with it.