LED Light idea

[steen]

ive been working on creating a Diablo themed case and i want the cut outs to have a fire effect so i decided to try my hand at making a custom LED circuit board but i know nothing about electronics and was wondering if anyone had a tutorial on it

im gunna use 60 LEDs (3 colors) and it needs to have a Molex connector to connect to the power supply

[rendermandan]

Sounds like a job for Custom_electronics_Man

[xmastree]

60 LED's? Fire effect? I'm guesing you want a dynamic display of some kind.

Hmm...
http://www.johnnyspage.com/LED%20Flicker.htm

[steen]

that link was somewhat helpful but i want to learn how to do it, do you guys know of a tutorial on how to make the etched boards and how placements work and what not

[crazybillybob]

Here's a link that might give you some ideas about how to create the fire effect. Light Show (http://www.kronosrobotics.com/pj_lightshow/lightshow.shtml).

as for a PCB etching tutorial... I wrote one for another mod site, but it will not be up till the site is update (some time in the next 6-12 months :( )
I'd have to look around and find one that would work for you, let me see what I can find!


CrazyBillyBob

[steen]

Here's a link that might give you some ideas about how to create the fire effect. Light Show (http://www.kronosrobotics.com/pj_lightshow/lightshow.shtml).

as for a PCB etching tutorial... I wrote one for another mod site, but it will not be up till the site is update (some time in the next 6-12 months :( )
I'd have to look around and find one that would work for you, let me see what I can find!


CrazyBillyBob

hell yes man! this is EXACTLY what i was looking for, and you need not worry about the etching tut i know how to go about that part

the last part i need some help with is mapping it out

im using 30 red leds 20 orange and 10 yellow that will vary in position and the board i plan on using it like 6x12
im just not sure how to make the schematics

also maybe you would know where to find colored PCB?? i would like a red one for this project

[Eclecticos]

LED Flame Fan Tutorial. Here (http://www.casemodgod.com/ModGuides/FlameFan/ledflamefan.htm) <=-

http://img375.imageshack.us/img375/9540/alieninferno15sk8.jpg

You you can buy Multicolor Red/Yellow LEDs
from KingBright (http://www.kingbrightusa.com/default.asp) for a cool fire effect.

[crazybillybob]

Steen,
The only thing is that none of the pics out there can drive 60 LEDs.
Your going to have to add and LED driver on to the output.

Here's simple Transistor Driver that should work for you. You'll need one for each of the outputs your using. I've got it shown with 20LEDs, that the most that you could use. If you use all 6 outputs on the athena , you'll only need 10 LED on each transistor which will be fine, less is always better then more :)

http://www.fccmonline.com/LanImages/temp/LED_Driverbw.jpg (http://www.fccmonline.com/LanImages/temp/LED_Driver.jpg)

I hope this makes since to you.

CrazyBillyBob

[steen]

Steen,
The only thing is that none of the pics out there can drive 60 LEDs.
Your going to have to add and LED driver on to the output.

Here's simple Transistor Driver that should work for you. You'll need one for each of the outputs your using. I've got it shown with 20LEDs, that the most that you could use. If you use all 6 outputs on the athena , you'll only need 10 LED on each transistor which will be fine, less is always better then more :)

http://www.fccmonline.com/LanImages/temp/LED_Driverbw.jpg (http://www.fccmonline.com/LanImages/temp/LED_Driver.jpg)

I hope this makes since to you.

CrazyBillyBob


ok i understand the picture a bit
but what do you mean by a LED drivers? like the athena chip?
so how many athena chips would i need for just the 20 leds?

p.s. i forgot to mention im powering it with the 12v rail thats on the power supply so yea

[crazybillybob]

Steen,
What I mean is that the AthenaHs Chip can only handle a max of 25ma per port with a total of 200ma per chip.
That pretty much means 1 ultrabright LED (ultra bright LEDs run from 20ma to 30ma each) per output (6 total).
If you want to driver 60 LEDs (or 20, or 12, or 24) you need to put the Transistor circuit I showed you on each of the AthenaHS's 6 outputs. The Transistor can handle more current and thus drive more LEDs (the Transistor is the LED Driver! the AthenaHS is the controller)
So you would need 1 AthenaHS ,6 2N2905 PNP Transistors, 6 160Ohms 1/4Watt Resistors, 60 100 Ohm 1/4watt Resistors.

You don't want to run this off the 12V rail.... there's no need, the AthenaHS runs @ 5Vdc only and the LED are 2-3Vdc. If your going to use the 12V rail you'll need a 5V regulator that can source about 2+ amps. Why do that when you've got a 5V rail on the PSU that can do that and more with no extra parts? If your using different LEDS (like the Strips used in Cars) let me know we can make it work it just might need a different transistor (but it will be more expensive and maybe harder to find... This circuit was made so you could go to Radio Shack and get the parts...Easy Simple)

As for the Red PCB I don't know where to get it so that you can etch your own. Some of the PCB fab companies have red as a choice if you order your design from them (which means you's got to draw it up in a cad software, either the one the PCB fab gives you or something like Egale cad or KICAD, then send the PCB fab co. your "Greber" files a special CAM file type so they can make your board.) One to 3 boards can run you $20 to $100 and most charge a setup fee ($20-$75) on top of that plus shipping. There are cheaper PCB Co, you just gotta look for them they may not have red PCB's for the lower cost though(hint www.Sparkfun.com (http://www.sparkfun.com/commerce/categories.php) BatchPCB.com (http://www.batchpcb.com/) PCBPool.com (http://www.pcb-pool.com/ppus/info.html))

I hope this helps ease the confusion about LED Drivers.

CrazyBillyBob

[steen]

Steen,
What I mean is that the AthenaHs Chip can only handle a max of 25ma per port with a total of 200ma per chip.
That pretty much means 1 ultrabright LED (ultra bright LEDs run from 20ma to 30ma each) per output (6 total).
If you want to driver 60 LEDs (or 20, or 12, or 24) you need to put the Transistor circuit I showed you on each of the AthenaHS's 6 outputs. The Transistor can handle more current and thus drive more LEDs (the Transistor is the LED Driver! the AthenaHS is the controller)
So you would need 1 AthenaHS ,6 2N2905 PNP Transistors, 6 160Ohms 1/4Watt Resistors, 60 100 Ohm 1/4watt Resistors.

You don't want to run this off the 12V rail.... there's no need, the AthenaHS runs @ 5Vdc only and the LED are 2-3Vdc. If your going to use the 12V rail you'll need a 5V regulator that can source about 2+ amps. Why do that when you've got a 5V rail on the PSU that can do that and more with no extra parts? If your using different LEDS (like the Strips used in Cars) let me know we can make it work it just might need a different transistor (but it will be more expensive and maybe harder to find... This circuit was made so you could go to Radio Shack and get the parts...Easy Simple)

As for the Red PCB I don't know where to get it so that you can etch your own. Some of the PCB fab companies have red as a choice if you order your design from them (which means you's got to draw it up in a cad software, either the one the PCB fab gives you or something like Egale cad or KICAD, then send the PCB fab co. your "Greber" files a special CAM file type so they can make your board.) One to 3 boards can run you $20 to $100 and most charge a setup fee ($20-$75) on top of that plus shipping. There are cheaper PCB Co, you just gotta look for them they may not have red PCB's for the lower cost though(hint www.Sparkfun.com (http://www.sparkfun.com/commerce/categories.php) BatchPCB.com (http://www.batchpcb.com/) PCBPool.com (http://www.pcb-pool.com/ppus/info.html))

I hope this helps ease the confusion about LED Drivers.

CrazyBillyBob

ok this makes more sense now that i have a list of materials
and my god father knows how to setup this stuff so ill get everything listed, and i have the LEDs ordered already so thank you very very much kind sir

last thing, how do i go about doing placements on the board itself? i have PCB Express and im just gunna use the toner trasfer method for this one

[crazybillybob]

Go download Eagle Cad. PCB Express will not let you output to the printer on a 1 to 1 scale (they want you to use there PCB mfg. service not make your own :) ) As long as your not making money Eagle is free, and there are tuts out there to help you do everything. Do you want the LEDs on the PCB or are you going to wire them up with lead wires? ( I might have some free time tonight and can whip out a PCB design for you to look at... it will be in Eagle though).

To design the board you need to place all the parts onto a schematic drawing (like the one I posted for the Transistor) with all the electrical connections. Save it and export it to the board router. once The board in the board program move the parts where you want them then auto route the traces... you'll have to make some traces your self.


I know it's vague best bet is to find a tut on google! It will help allot.


CrazyBillyBob

[steen]

Go download Eagle Cad. PCB Express will not let you output to the printer on a 1 to 1 scale (they want you to use there PCB mfg. service not make your own :) ) As long as your not making money Eagle is free, and there are tuts out there to help you do everything. Do you want the LEDs on the PCB or are you going to wire them up with lead wires? ( I might have some free time tonight and can whip out a PCB design for you to look at... it will be in Eagle though).

To design the board you need to place all the parts onto a schematic drawing (like the one I posted for the Transistor) with all the electrical connections. Save it and export it to the board router. once The board in the board program move the parts where you want them then auto route the traces... you'll have to make some traces your self.


I know it's vague best bet is to find a tut on google! It will help allot.


CrazyBillyBob


awesome sir! thanks for all the help and i will be sure to post pics and start a work log!

[crazybillybob]

Steen,
Ok, I've got a board laid out. When you look at the + output from the Transistors are in Groups by ports. The - are kinda of all over the place, it was tough to fit everything on to the board. Let me know if you have any questions.

Your PCB Layout (http://www.fccmonline.com/lanimages/temp/lightshow.zip) Remember it's in the Eagle format just unzip the files into a directory and open with eagle.


Good Luck!
CrazyBillyBob

[steen]

Steen,
Ok, I've got a board laid out. When you look at the + output from the Transistors are in Groups by ports. The - are kinda of all over the place, it was tough to fit everything on to the board. Let me know if you have any questions.

Your PCB Layout (http://www.fccmonline.com/lanimages/temp/lightshow.zip) Remember it's in the Eagle format just unzip the files into a directory and open with eagle.


Good Luck!
CrazyBillyBob


alright i looked at the sketch and it looks good, im sorry for sounding rather picky but do you think you can fit that only a 6x12 board??

lol sorry man i really am, you have been a great deal of help im just entrily new to this

[custom_electronics_man]

Don't get yourself into a mess of etching yourself. Just buy a prototyping board of many predrilled halls and solder leds + circuitry there. http://www.radioshack.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2102843&cp=&sr=1&kw=board&origkw=board&parentPage=search something like that just bigger. Or just a couple of them

[crazybillybob]

alright i looked at the sketch and it looks good, im sorry for sounding rather picky but do you think you can fit that only a 6x12 board??

lol sorry man i really am, you have been a great deal of help im just entrily new to this

I would be happy to have fit it a 6x12 board, it would have given me more room!
but the free version of eagle cad limits you to The max of this sized board. and I don't think I can make it much smaller :)
Elco_man has a point, perf board would work for this too (get the kind with the little copper donuts on the back It makes soldering in the parts easier).

Also, I'd wire this up on a breadboard or perf before etching, it's allot of work to find out something doesn't work (bad part, bad solder, bad design ;) )

CrazyBillyBob

[steen]

can you guys find a bread board that would be close to the size i need it?
and i got the full version of egale cad crazybob would you do the scematics for me????

[crazybillybob]

steen,
The schematics are done, the file extension for the schematics is .sch
The file is inside the .zip file posted here (http://www.fccmonline.com/lanimages/temp/lightshow.zip) (same file link I posted before)

as for a breadboard, Order a couple of these, From www.AllElectronics.com (http://www.allelectronics.com/make-a-store/item/PB-400/SOLDERLESS-BREADBOARD-400-CONTACTS/-/1.html) @ $4.00 ea their cheap!

These are only good for Testing, now the "Perf Board" is a permanent replacement for a PCB. Here's a good one for you (http://www.allelectronics.com/make-a-store/item/ECS-1/SOLDERABLE-PERF-BOARD-1-HOLE-PAD/-/1.html) the top and bottom row of hole are all tied together this is normally used for power to help with lay out. It's larger then the PCB but you'll need the extra space to fit everything in.

Hope this helps!
CrazyBillyBob