Fish Tank Media PC

[Karbon Killa]

Well, I have started this (http://www.thebestcasescenario.com/forum/showthread.php?t=15974&page=3) thread over in the ideas section not too long ago, and I have started to take it a step further and actually starting on it. It is my senior project for my school. Basically I wanted to make a media center pc that looks very pleasing to the eye, when most people don't even know its there until they look hard enough. I decided I didn't want another silver or black box under my TV. So I figured a fish tank next to it would look nice, and the idea basically started from there.

I started with this 1st drawing.
http://img126.imageshack.us/img126/7769/ssecomputeraquariumlayoya5.png
Then decided I didn't need the LCD off the back because it would be hooked up to my TV. Doh, lol.
http://img116.imageshack.us/img116/3430/ssecomputeraquariumlayowo7.png
Once those were drawn out, I needed to make a shape on how this was going to be, so I started with bringing out 3D sketchup, and got to work. I pumped out this basic first 3D design.
http://img387.imageshack.us/img387/865/render4xu8.jpg
http://img123.imageshack.us/img123/6671/render3sh1.jpg
http://img381.imageshack.us/img381/5596/render2cp8.jpg
http://img116.imageshack.us/img116/1951/render1hm3.jpg
http://img361.imageshack.us/img361/6830/render5eg2.jpg
After all of that, I needed to get the tank and start up the cycling of the aquarium. So I bought all of the necessary equipment to get this thing going, and got it up and running.
The tank when I first got it. It is a 26 gallon bow front.
http://img126.imageshack.us/img126/6030/dsc01984oj0.jpg
With some stuff (heater, tubing, plants, and chemicals).
http://img126.imageshack.us/img126/7525/dsc02000ub9.jpg
There isn't much in it right now other than fish and medicine. But if there was, it would be something like this (most recent picture before fish started getting sick).
http://img381.imageshack.us/img381/6374/dsc02075jz7.jpg

Well, as most of you don't know, I need someone in the community to help me with this. Not meaning the area I live in, but just someone out there to help me through the process, and to help to challenge me more and puss my project to the limit but without going overboard. That person is called a community consultant. We have to go out of our ways as seniors and try to find someone willing to take a look at what we want to do, listen to how we think we are going to accomplish it, and give their input. Well I have chosen someone who's company has been on the front page, and he has gladly accepted taking me under his wing, and helping me throughout this whole ordeal. I don't know if any of you guys remember this article, but this guy blew me away when I saw what he did. Here is the article (http://www.thebestcasescenario.com/frontpage/?q=node/252).

Since talking with him, and sharing ideas, my final render on this whole project is basically done. Just some few minor adjustments here and there for it to work. So the drawing board for the project is more than done, now I'm onto the real world part of making this happen. Here are the final renders.
http://img407.imageshack.us/img407/7675/fishtankmcwithres1ig6.jpg
http://img114.imageshack.us/img114/5023/fishtankmcwithres2uh9.jpg
http://img116.imageshack.us/img116/9269/fishtankmcwithres3ou3.jpg
http://img407.imageshack.us/img407/3370/fishtankmcwithres4xo0.jpg
And if you guys are wondering what that big cylinder is hanging off the side of what is supposed to be the "tank", is it an enclosed passive res that will have water from the fish tank flowing over it to keep the water cooling system cool. And if that isn't enough, there will also be a 120mm danger den black ice radiator used if need be. Here are some x-ray shots of the passive res enclosure.
http://img114.imageshack.us/img114/2959/resivour1jb9.jpg
http://img361.imageshack.us/img361/6886/resivour2if3.jpg
On the longer tube that is going into the tank, there will be a pump that flows the water upward and into the top of the cylinder, and that water will then flow downwards over the fins of the passive res, and hopefully cool the coolant down effectively. I am really getting into this project. All comments and constructive criticism is wanted here. I am wanting as much help as I can get here. So guys, tell me what you all think. :)

[sloppyc]

I actually had a similar idea after seeing some mineral oil PCs.

Consider abandoning the water cooling and filling the tank that the PC sits in with mineral oil? It would look like the fish were swimming around your computer's internals from the front. Especially if you have some fans spinning to put some bubbles in the oil.

[Karbon Killa]

I thought about it, but my consultant wanted to see me try it with the liquid cooling, and such. Also, there is another kid in my class that is doing the mineral oil thing, so that idea is down the drain.

[billygoat333]

this is pretty cool, very nice sketchups. I will be watching this one.

[sloppyc]

I thought about it, but my consultant wanted to see me try it with the liquid cooling, and such. Also, there is another kid in my class that is doing the mineral oil thing, so that idea is down the drain.
All the better. That means if/when I do it, it won't be a complete knockoff :P


The watercooling is equally interesting, I think. Good luck, looks like a great project.

[Twigsoffury]

Wouldn't you think all the fish "stuff" would pile up in the pump/blocks/radiator?

hope that kid gets the mineral oil with alkylbenzoyl as a listed ingredient.

plain ol mineral oil is a by product of making Gasoline. Mineral oil byitself is Quite Corrosive to non Cr-Steel,Alumnium It rapes copper and I've noticed it obliterates Thermal compounds in a matter of minutes. When he turns it on look around the heatsink and watch silver goop start flowing out from below the heatsinks.

I'd say it would take a couple months or more to start seeing physical Damage to the solder and PCB itself.
Wonder what happens to multi layer PCB like motherboards when the oil impregnates inside the PCB.

oooo shutters. don't try it with your rampage II mobo.

If you really want uber Cpu cooling. Pop The heatspreader off your cpu (yea they pop off with some gentle fighting) and mate your waterblock directly. just use ceramic shims. Direct Die cooling was the thing back with Athlon Xp's But its Extreeeemmmmely easy to chip the cpu itself. That being said the Rewards are great with Direct die cooling.

[Luke122]

Wouldn't you think all the fish "stuff" would pile up in the pump/blocks/radiator?
...
If you really want uber Cpu cooling. Pop The heatspreader off your cpu (yea they pop off with some gentle fighting) and mate your waterblock directly. just use ceramic shims.

I agree with the fish waste gumming up the works, but just to clarify, the water loop for the pc will be using the passive rad which will be cooled by the fish water. So the rad will get "poopy" but the rest of the system is seperate.

I would recommend AGAINST removing the heatspreader from the CPU. I would say that the risk of damage is just too great to justify it, unless it's old hardware, and you are willing to destroy it if something goes wrong.

[Twigsoffury]

I agree with the fish waste gumming up the works, but just to clarify, the water loop for the pc will be using the passive rad which will be cooled by the fish water. So the rad will get "poopy" but the rest of the system is seperate.

I would recommend AGAINST removing the heatspreader from the CPU. I would say that the risk of damage is just too great to justify it, unless it's old hardware, and you are willing to destroy it if something goes wrong.

Agreed. It's crazy dangerous.

Ahhh it explains it. I knew he wasn't crazy enough to send fish water through his stuff.


I bet it will be cool. maybe the fish will hang out by the rad since its warm.

[Karbon Killa]

Haha, yea. No poop in the w/c system, just water running over the rad/res.

I was thinking about doing direct die contact, but never pushed it very far. Every heatspreader that I have taken off of CPUs has always gotten me to scratch the hell out of the processor pcb. So therefor, none of the experiments I have tried with that, have always turned out to be keychains in the end. lol.

[Twigsoffury]

Haha, yea. No poop in the w/c system, just water running over the rad/res.

I was thinking about doing direct die contact, but never pushed it very far. Every heatspreader that I have taken off of CPUs has always gotten me to scratch the hell out of the processor pcb. So therefor, none of the experiments I have tried with that, have always turned out to be keychains in the end. lol.

if you look around just hard enough theres a small company that spits out Ceramic shims for Athlon xp P4 on up. There about 35-40$ (each one is hand cast) but it solves the problem of chipping the cpu.

Lazy man way out that i've seen is a piece of foam. But Ceramic is Very heat conductive (think plate in microwave) but electrictivly resistance. so it's drawing heat off the entire surface of the cpu instead of just the core itself.


Theres some neat new stuff coming out.

look to see new ibm uber cpus ship with direct die water blocks. they said something about not wanting to be cack blocked by aircoolings limitations.

i've heard rumors that intel may also follow suit with there "Extreme edition" cpus. offering some cpus only with intergrated blocks.

Some mighty cool stuff is around the bend.

[edit] I got a cpu keychain to. well actually its a northbridge. But we were busting caps into a old HP and the north bridge went flying off into the air and landed in almost perfect shape not but 10 feet from my feet face up.
Guess it was a sign from computer zeus that i needed to make it a keychain

[nevermind1534]

I guess I've been lucky; I've never chipped an athlon xp or Pentium III.

[Karbon Killa]

So I was wondering. I am going to water cool the water cooling system as we already know. How much GPH should I be looking at for the submersible pump that is moving the fish tank water over the res/radiator? Normal water cooling pumps are around 132GPH. Whats the lowest I can go without having the thing overheat? What I am finding online, is around 80GPH. I am just wondering if this would be enough or if I should just get a fish tank power head from work and make it into what i need.

[rithunder916]

I would be careful. The biggest Issue I see is that Fish don't like warm waters, So water above 82 degrees F isn't good. I would try to get either a marineland power head, or pump designed for the fish tank world. there can't be any oils or anything if this is going to be in contact with the fish. Just go to a Pet store and see what they have.


Mike

[danthegeek]

Actually, you shouldnt need very much water movement over the radiator. Water is much more effecient at removing/conducting heat then air. Just think of it how human body heat is effected. We loose heat much faster in 40 degree water then in 40 degree air. Atleast, i think this applies lol.

You may want to try just submerging the radiator in the water first without a pump. It may not be needed. The pump for the tank itself should create a strong enough current.

[Karbon Killa]

Well, I have the idea on putting the passive res inside of a pvc pipe, and having water run over it. And doing that, I would just have to have some sort of power head in the water attached to a tube that runs into the pvc pushing water over the res.if that makes sense to any of you. I found a power head at my work (I work in a pet store) that is like 160gph. And from what I've read, most w/c system pumps run at 132gph. So I think I'm going to try it out.

@rithunder916:
My fish are a bunch of tropical fish. They need they're water around 70-74 degrees. And if I leave my heater around 65, then try to have the res cooler warm up the rest of my water, it should work out great if my calculations are correct.

[Karbon Killa]

Ok, so I have just ordered all my acrylic from TAP Plastics yesterday. But I was wondering. Anyone know of a cheap place to buy a strip heater? TAP's cheapest one is like 60+ bucks. If anyone knows, please tell me.

Here's what I got.

Qty SKU Product Price Total
1 15118 Acrylic Sheets Clear 1/8" (.118 ) 2' x 2' 16.00 16.00
1 15062 Acrylic Sheets Clear 1/16" (.0625) 2' x 4' 22.00 22.00
2 00010 Acrylic Sheets Clear Sample 1/4" (.236) Sample 4" x 4" 2.00 4.00

Subtotal $42.00
UPS Ground/Handling $10.23
Grand Total $52.23



Comments/Instructions
Dave Freeberg okayed the change at the same price for these sizes.

from:
2'x4'x18"
2'x2'x1/8"

to:
24" x 27" x 1/8"
29" x 39" x 1/8"

[Outlaw]

Well, I have the idea on putting the passive res inside of a pvc pipe, and having water run over it. And doing that, I would just have to have some sort of power head in the water attached to a tube that runs into the pvc pushing water over the res.if that makes sense to any of you. I found a power head at my work (I work in a pet store) that is like 160gph. And from what I've read, most w/c system pumps run at 132gph. So I think I'm going to try it out.

@rithunder916:
My fish are a bunch of tropical fish. They need they're water around 70-74 degrees. And if I leave my heater around 65, then try to have the res cooler warm up the rest of my water, it should work out great if my calculations are correct.

Unless the PC runs constantly I would leave the heater set in the 70-74 degree range so if you turn the pc off, or if the heat transfer isn't as good as expected or depending on where you live in the US, it gets cold in your house, you wont shock the fish. Also (and it sounds like you are already just using an aquarium power head), watch out for the suction of the powerhead depending on the size of the fish.

What type of rad are you using in the cooler where the aquarium water is running over? You might want to watch out if it's painted or chemicals on the rad from anodizing. Make sure to clean it well and I would definitely monitor water specs for a while once it's setup.

GL and cant wait to see it all done!

[Karbon Killa]

@ Outlaw:
I am planning on leaving the heater around 70 degrees. My fish are oscars, so they dont need to be monitored around the power head, plus, I am making a little filter box that goes around the inlet of the powerhead, and also one around the outlet (that goes beck into the tank) so that if anything like that does happen, it all gets caught. Also, the rad that I am going to be using is this one " http://www.frozencpu.com/products/5746/ex-res-120/XSPC_Passive_500mm_Reservoir_-_Black.html?tl=g30c97s167 ".

@anyone else:
As posted before, I need to know of some cheaper yet effective strip heaters for acrylic. So if someone can help me find one, that would be awesome, and I will throw some rep your way for doing so. Thanks again guys, and I should have an update by this weekend. Acrylic comes in on Friday. W00t!!!

Also, just ordered the passive rad/res. So that should be here pretty soon.

[Trace]

To heat acrylic for cheap, you can use an electric stove or a heat gun.

[Remy]

Karbon,

I found this at Moddersmart for $37. I don't think you'll find anything else much cheaper unless you get lucky on eBay...

http://www.moddersmart.com/en/24inch-55-watt-plastrip-heater.html

[Karbon Killa]

Thank you very much Remy. +Rep for the find. =]

[Karbon Killa]

So I showed up at my house this afternoon, only to see a nice big thin cardboard box sitting aside my couch. MY ACRYLIC HAS ARRIVED!
http://img17.imageshack.us/img17/9018/dsc02309q.jpg
http://img25.imageshack.us/img25/5430/dsc02308p.jpg
The sizes compared to my couch.
http://img19.imageshack.us/img19/180/dsc02310x.jpg
The 2 sample piece that will be used as bolt mounts.
http://img8.imageshack.us/img8/9129/dsc02311z.jpg
http://img7.imageshack.us/img7/5851/dsc02312h.jpg
I really do NOT understand why UPS does not know how to read. All over the bow it has "handle with care" stickers, "glass" stickers, and "fragile" stickers. And guess what, they still broke my piece.
http://img17.imageshack.us/img17/8206/dsc02313t.jpg
http://img23.imageshack.us/img23/8523/dsc02314b.jpg
At least I am cutting off some excess of the acrylic to fit my exact dimensions, so the broken corner doesn't matter to the mod, but it still matters. I am sending UPS an email tomorrow morning, with pictures and all. Not expecting anything, but showing them that they need better service. I mean, what if I was using all the acrylic on something. Then I would be screwed.

I also went to Home Depot and the pet store I work at today and picked up some goodies. I'll let the pictures do the talking.

4x 8mm wingnuts:
http://img15.imageshack.us/img15/1478/dsc02320k.jpg
4x 8mm bolts:
http://img15.imageshack.us/img15/4035/dsc02323v.jpg
4x 1/2" barbs (inner threaded):
http://img25.imageshack.us/img25/388/dsc02321bcs.jpg
2x 1/2" threaded nipples:
http://img13.imageshack.us/img13/2040/dsc02324m.jpg
Power head:
http://img22.imageshack.us/img22/563/dsc02326.jpg
http://img12.imageshack.us/img12/606/dsc02327r.jpg
Perfectly fits a hose. :D
http://img15.imageshack.us/img15/9769/dsc02328a.jpg
2x 5/8" barbs:
http://img7.imageshack.us/img7/3849/dsc02329q.jpg
A little piece of sheet metal:
http://img25.imageshack.us/img25/6096/dsc02325p.jpg
1" drill bit:
http://img27.imageshack.us/img27/9558/dsc02322t.jpg
4"x2' ABS SCH 40 cut pipe:
http://img15.imageshack.us/img15/2725/dsc02331n.jpg
http://img11.imageshack.us/img11/5309/dsc02332e.jpg
2x 4 1/2" ABS SCH pipe ends:
http://img27.imageshack.us/img27/7683/dsc02330n.jpg

And that's all I got for you today. I am going to order the acrylic strip heater in the very near future. I also am getting some computer components donated to me for free by one of my tech teachers. Not sure what he is throwing my way, but lets hope its something good.

[DonT-FeaR]

interesting :) got a sweet quote from you remy bahahaha