New radiator source

[rithunder916]

ok, so i've been in the car world for about 12 years. In my time i have used many different things to make power. My most favorite was a turbo :) that awesome sound of a jet engine coming out from under the hood as you rev the engine is amazing! Typically i used air-air intercoolers to keep that charged air cool. There was one time though that I used an air-water intercooler. I was running through the guarage the other day and i found it! I orderd two air-waters for a big block turbo build. Then i was given a much larger intercooler, so i used that and sold one of the two intercoolers off. Well i found it, I'm going to clean it up some and take a few pics.


What i'm wondering is has anyone ever thought of this before?



Ok i cleaned it up, but i can't find my camera. So If you search ebay for air-water intercooler, there are a bunch of 70 dollar units, that's what this is. the core itself measures 4.5" x 4.5" x 10" with end tanks it's 4.5 x 4.5 x 12. that's a pretty large core. it's a single pass system, with 3/4 fittings on each end. I'm going to work on getting the sides off to show what it really looks like. Oh and this would be for a cm stacker!


Mike

[jdbnsn]

I've heard of people using heater cores as radiators for watercooling loops, not sure if that is what you are talking about or not though. I do know of one mod that used a turbo prop called "Forced Induction"

http://www.thebestcasescenario.com/jdbnsn/misc/forcedinduction.jpg

[rithunder916]

That is awesome but no, hang on i'll post a few pics from the internet.


LINKY (http://www.siliconeintakes.com/product_info.php?cPath=7&products_id=203&osCsid=2cb1192d42d44d0ab9520fcb130f3da1)
that's the one i have. The center area is a 10x4.5x4.5" radiator core. Basically the plan is to cute the end tanks off ("wings") clean it up some (paint it), mount fans to see what I can do. It's rated to cool 700cfm, soo i bet it will do nicely for a radiator.

[Spawn-Inc]

first off its aluminum. mixing metals is a very bad idea in watercooling

and cooling is not rated in CFM its rated in watts and the ability to remove them.

what your reading means you need a fan with 700 CFM to properly cool the rad. you are going to go def with that much cfm from a computer fan, which by the way can't push anything near that. the highest computer fan is a delta rated for 220CFM its LOUD.

the rad is so big that it will hurt your flow rates for a standard computer pump and you will loose cooling, not gain.

as far as car rads ending up in computers copper/brass heater cores only cut it.

[SXRguyinMA]

I've heard of people using heater cores as radiators for watercooling loops, not sure if that is what you are talking about or not though. I do know of one mod that used a turbo prop called "Forced Induction"

http://www.thebestcasescenario.com/jdbnsn/misc/forcedinduction.jpg

thats crazy! It woulda been neat if he had the exhaust side pull hot air from the case as well as push in fresh cool air :D

but then he would have had a tough time hooking up the bench grinder lol

[rithunder916]

Thanks for the input!!!

I have a few questions though!
First, why would it matter if i used aluminum radiator with a copper block. I am a fan of copper myself, but I have a copper radiator in my car, with an aluminum block.... Second is that the radiator is rated to cool up to 700 cfm of air flow from a turbo charger, not that I'll need a 700 cfm fan to cool it.

What is nice about that cooler is that it is completely indepedent from the cars cooling system. This core has been used twice, one in the gmc cyclone, which used a 12 lph pump made by jabsco, and the second the svt lightning/cobra, which used a 317 gph pump. So i believe as long as I stay between those numbers i should be able to get enough flow. I want also to build new end tanks, ones that are hollow and have 2 inputs and two out puts, that would give me the ability to use two pumps instead of one. Now, onto cooling this thing. I would probably wind up using 4 mid cfm fans, like say 110 cfm, two on front, and two on back. Or, A friend of mine has two 3" nascar brake cooling fans from his old sprint car he no longer needs. they both are rated at 175 cfm and are 12vdc at 3 amps max draw. With a custom mount made i could have these pullling air out. Lets see what else am i missing. I don't know, I'm sure i'll think of something later.


Thanks again!!


MIke

[Spawn-Inc]

i should have also added that while it is a no no mixing metals the reason car do it is because they run 50% antifreeze which only slows down the galvanic corrosion. generally speaking in computers you try to run distilled water and some biocide as the glycol will slow heat transfer.


since you already have it you can run tests but you will always have corrosion happening and can only slow it down. if the pressure drop ( i assume it is referring to the water side) is only .1 psi then it sounds like it has a chance. and as for the fans try it and see i'm not sure how tight the fin spacing is but as long as its less then 25FPI you will be fine with high speed fans and lower as the fpi goes.

[rithunder916]

Ok, now that makes sence. What if i were to run anti-freeze in with the distilled water/biocide mix? Also would it be possible to run a very light oil as the cooling liquid instead of the water? The pressure drop is on the air side. What makes these so nice for turbo charged applications is that there is very little resistance in the air flow. the water side of things will take up to 70 psi of pressure.


I'll have my uncle cut the end tanks off, and I'll get a cheap 12v pump that will put out enough water, and i'll see what I can do as for testing. IT would be awesome though to use this for a radiator!


Also for the noice issue, meh i don't really hear my computer anyway over the 1000w surround of gun fire :)



MIke

[Spawn-Inc]

if you run antifreeze be careful using biocide as it may react.

and your 1000watt system will not be on all the time. but you can always undervolt the fans.

[rithunder916]

True on that one, I was planning on using 12 v 30 am relays with a fan controller that will turn the fans on at x temperature. I can run just anti freeze see how that works.

I'll also look into other coolants/additives that would help.


Mike

[Spawn-Inc]

if there was no mixed metals then you can run plain supermarket distilled water and 2 drops of pt nuke for the best results. its what i'm using currently.

[rithunder916]

Ok, i'll have to keep that in mind, and i take it they don't make aluminum water blocks. Worse case this thing just goes back onto the shelf for some other project!


MIke

[Spawn-Inc]

ya some crappy companies do. koolance, Zalman, are ones that i can think off off hand that do.

[rithunder916]

I thought the koolance and zalman blocks weren't so bad. I will have to look into them. I know copper is the better cooler, but maybe an aluminum block heatsink would be a good idea to use with this radiator, and I bet i could find on cheaply....



Mike

[Spawn-Inc]

thermaltake is the worst but zalman and koolance love aluminum.

there stuff can be had for cheap so it should work out.

[rithunder916]

Awesome! that's what i thought! I'll have to look to see what I can do!


MIke

[Spawn-Inc]

i meant to say i am talking about there older/used stuff the newer stuff from koolance is overpriced alot.

[rithunder916]

Yea i've been noticing that stuff, I'll look around on freebay to see what I can find for used stuff, since this is just a test! I have a test bed, p4 3.2, 512mb ram, etc. I'll hunt around, and work something out!


MIke

[BuzzKillington]

A lot of good info Spawn. Very interesting read. Rithunder, be sure and keep us updated! Hell, even if it doesn't work it will surely be a fun experiment! Maybe a work log?

Also, welcome to TBCS. Some pretty cool people here.

[rithunder916]

Thanks! I'll be sure to post up my findings, I really hope it does, because these cores are rather cheap, and for their size, are huge for computer cooling! If it does, expect a case mod to fit this thing :)


Mike

[Spawn-Inc]

yes, i demand pics!!!

if i could find a copper rad that big that would be so friggin sick. i could cool the entire pc with it instead of having 2 triple rads for my cpu and gpu(coming soon).

[rithunder916]

I'll dig around and see what I can find for smaller copper radiators/intercoolers, maybe take a poke around a junkyard.

As for pics.

I have a few pics of the intercooler before it gets a trim.
http://img3.imageshack.us/img3/6538/intercooler2zx3.th.jpg (http://img3.imageshack.us/my.php?image=intercooler2zx3.jpg)http://img3.imageshack.us/img3/777/intercooler1fm3.jpg (http://img3.imageshack.us/my.php?image=intercooler1fm3.jpg) http://img3.imageshack.us/img3/intercooler1fm3.jpg/1/w640.png (http://g.imageshack.us/img3/intercooler1fm3.jpg/1/)

[Spawn-Inc]

well from the first pic it looks like the fpi is low which would explain the low pressure drop so you will be fine with low to medium (do to thickness) speed fans which means not alot of noise. so thats a +

[rithunder916]

yea, and I found an all aluminum water block for a decent price, so i'll probably pick that up, see how the rad cools things!


Mike

[Spawn-Inc]

sweet. i was really not thinking much of this idea but i really hope it works, it looks promising to say the least. hope the rad won't have to bad a pressure drop on the water side of things.

[rithunder916]

Now, here's a question, I have found an aluminum block, but that would be an un-fair test, seeing as I want to make this useable for all people. So i'll probably try to get a copper block instead, and use anti-freeze (20-30%) with distilled water. I want to try this with a more common water block, I was thinking the koolance 300 series, since I can get one for cheap, and don't care if i destroy it. I'll hopefully run all copper first, with the mix, then run the mixed metals, compare cpu tems, and post what I find!


Mike


I'll take any suggestions for blocks too!

[Spawn-Inc]

well what cpu is this for? if its a quad then the top blocks are the Dtek Fuzion V2 (i have) and the newer Swiftech Apogee GTZ. they range from 50-70

if you can get the koolance block cheap then go ahead, but what do you call cheap?

its not going to mess up the block quickly if proper precautions are taken such as antifreeze. its also a matter of just keeping an eye on things.

[rithunder916]

well the Koolance 300 i can buy from one of my favorite sites for about 15 bucks. it's a single core pentium 4 3.2


Mike

[Spawn-Inc]

ya then older blocks are going to work better for the most part. the newer ones are meant for multi core and quads.

pick up the koolence block and see what happens.

[rithunder916]

Sweet! I'll look at ordering tomorrow, just found an older p4 lga 775 thermal take block with all mounting hardware, since it works with both amd and intel, (939,940,am2) (lga775 and up) that would interest me much more, I have a socket 939 that i'm working on as we speak.


mike

I like have multiple projects going at once, keeps me occupied always lol

[Spawn-Inc]

since its a test its ok to use the TT stuff, but if the block has a plexi top be careful if you use it all the time. they tend to crack. but in TT's defence plexi tops tend to crack regardless of brand.

[rithunder916]

True, I'll have to look to see what i can get today, and Hopefully get this test started. I was thinking for running it for about a month long test, to see how badly the block and intercooler corrodes.

Mike

[rithunder916]

Ok good news! I dropped the intercooler off at my uncle's shop, he's going to try to cut those end tanks off for me. I also ordered a Zalman cpu heat sink, so that is on it's way. Now onto a pump, I'm looking at either a livewell pump, or a pentax quiet one pump. Both are realitvly cheap, and will serve other purposes to me than computer cooling!


Mike

[rithunder916]

Sometime in the next week i'll be starting testing. The CPU block will be in on tuesday, and I should have the intercooler back this weekend. Then just a run to the home depot and walmart to get the rest of my supplies.


I'll keep this updated.


Mike

[Spawn-Inc]

nice, can't wait to see how it turns out.

[rithunder916]

Alright, so it's in, the rad is being a B**CH!!! the alloy of aluminum they used in the end tanks is rather hard, so my uncle broke a saw blade, he's waiting for replacement, then will finish! The Zalman block I received is better than the one orderd :) So i can't complain! I orderd an all copper unit, and I got a Gold plated copper unit, which was the next model up! Awesome! I'll post up pics when I get around to it!

[Spawn-Inc]

broke the saw blade??? that seems messed up... what kind of saw was he using?

[DaveW]

According to wikipedia, Gold (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gold)has a thermal conductivity of 318 W·m^−1·K^−1, while copper (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Copper)has one of 401 W·m^−1·K^−1. I'm no chemist, it's been a while, but doesn't that mean that the gold plated sink will be less efficient at removing heat?

-Dave

[rithunder916]

It may, but since it's just gold plated, I'm sure it will be fine. He was using a metal band saw. I think he over heated the blade, I'm investigating as we speek, but one side is cut :)

[rithunder916]

Ok so It was Christmas, well at least my birthday haha! I got a call from my uncle....the Radiator has been cut to size :) Also my mother bought me a quiet one 2200 (2200 lph) pump at the local pet store that was going out of business. I bought a few parts to make the whole thing work with plumbing and soon testing will begin! Anyway a few pictures!


http://img25.imageshack.us/img25/8441/dsc0189za2.th.jpg (http://img25.imageshack.us/my.php?image=dsc0189za2.jpg)
http://img22.imageshack.us/img22/2295/dsc0188ve5.th.jpg (http://img22.imageshack.us/my.php?image=dsc0188ve5.jpg)
http://img21.imageshack.us/img21/5682/dsc0187tu5.th.jpg (http://img21.imageshack.us/my.php?image=dsc0187tu5.jpg)
http://img25.imageshack.us/img25/2448/dsc0186vn0.th.jpg (http://img25.imageshack.us/my.php?image=dsc0186vn0.jpg)
http://img10.imageshack.us/img10/977/dsc0185hm4.th.jpg (http://img10.imageshack.us/my.php?image=dsc0185hm4.jpg)
http://img9.imageshack.us/img9/6906/dsc0184mh3.th.jpg (http://img9.imageshack.us/my.php?image=dsc0184mh3.jpg)
http://img18.imageshack.us/img18/7779/dsc0183ld9.th.jpg (http://img18.imageshack.us/my.php?image=dsc0183ld9.jpg)

[Spawn-Inc]

man, its such a shame thats not copper/brass... that would be a frigging sweet rad. the fin spacing is perfect for medium speed fans. you could maybe even use low speed but it might be a bit to thick.

not sure how the pump will deal with the rad but if it has trouble i would switch those 90" elbow for some straight barbs if you can.

[rithunder916]

the pump i have has a max head of 10 feet at 2200 lph, so i'm sure it will be ok, the thing holds just over a quart of water, talk about cooling!! haha, I know I really wish it was copper, it would be so much simpler. I'm almost thinking of running a light oil in the system, which would keep corrosion at bay. I'm going to assemble the kit today, to begin testing. I need to build a res. now haha! I would replace the 90's with straight through, the only issue is that in the computer case, i'll be confined so 90's will be used anyway, however i might bump up to 1/2 fittings for the rad!

Mike

[Spawn-Inc]

well since the pump does 10' head and 2200lph you will be plenty fine. hell its 1000lph better then mine... what pump is it?

[rithunder916]

it's made by pentair i believe, quietone model 2200.


oh for the fans..I have a portable blower fan i picked up in the summer to move air around my room, I don't know what cfm it is, but it's got to be at least 300 cfm, i'll have that positioned to blow air through the rad.



Mike

[Spawn-Inc]

lol, this thing is gonna rock! 300cfm is overkill but it will be fun to see. you could get away with 50cfm i would say.

[rithunder916]

True, and I probably will go with 4 120mm fans, I'll take a pic tomorrow, but they fit perfectly on the front! like it was made for it. I want to see what this thing can do! So i'll be stopping by the store to pick up a few supplies, some hose clamps, anti-freeze, silicone, and teflon! then I'll measure how much liquid this thing holds, and make up my mixture! i was thinking 50/50, but i might shoot for 30/70.



mike

[rithunder916]

http://img8.imageshack.us/img8/5161/dsc0206ik8.th.jpg (http://img8.imageshack.us/my.php?image=dsc0206ik8.jpg)
http://img6.imageshack.us/img6/8279/dsc0205pb9.th.jpg (http://img6.imageshack.us/my.php?image=dsc0205pb9.jpg)
http://img13.imageshack.us/img13/751/dsc0207nv5.th.jpg (http://img13.imageshack.us/my.php?image=dsc0207nv5.jpg)


See like I said, They fit like a glove!

[rithunder916]

http://www.engineeringtoolbox.com/specific-heat-fluids-d_151.html

What a great place. Maybe I'll try cooling with milk next....hahah j/k

[Spawn-Inc]

Ammonia, 238oF me thinks... 1 and half times better then water.

and deadly! :)

[rithunder916]

HAHA, put a danger sign on the case! Use computer at your own risk HAHA that could be fun. Anyway I'm going to try to get this thing started this weekend.



Mike

[Spawn-Inc]

any updates?

[rithunder916]

Not off hand, I've been really busy with school lately, I hate finals week.