trading post

[jdbnsn]

Hello folks,

It's been a long time since we've allowed trading on the TBCS forums, it was shut down because of a couple of raw deals lead to flame wars. The admins have discussed it and we are still uneasy about it, but there have been so many requests for it we have caved to popular demand for now. Mind you, this is another test run, if it goes to hell again we'll just yank the Trading Post back out. I know it would be convenient though for many of you who like me have footlockers full of spare computer cables, cards, etc... and would like to offer them up to others in the community. So now you can, just be sure to read the rules and understand the consequences of your deals before hand. Enjoy!

-Jon

[Luke122]

Good stuff Jon! I hope things work out!

People, treat it like ebay.. be honest with descriptions and details, and be honorable with trades and shipping!!!

[jdbnsn]

We are discussing ways to help keep the trading post a fair, safe, and comfortable market. Things like a feedback system might help so we will do what we can to make it more secure. In the end though, you shop or sell at your own risk so be sure you trust whomever you trade with.

[knowledgegranted]

This is just my opinion, but I think you should try something that Special Ops Paintball is running for player to player sales and trades.

Someone posts what they are selling/looking (usually a set price) for, a player comes by leaves a post that they had PMed that player. Obviously its a simple system, but it works and it keeps other players from seeing offers.

The ebay/auction way to sell things in my opinion has never worked and on forums shall sometimes spark a war like you last problem.

Just a little bit of my $.02, but that SPECOPS paintball system works and I have bought 3 things off of other players before.

[Datech]

Maybe a second rep system that only displays in the trading post sub forum? That way new members would feel confident when contacting established members for purchases, and the guys with the footlocker of stuff would have a way to quickly let people know they won't ship junk (besides what the buyer requests).

The rep system for it would have to be modified in a manner that would either disallow or require approval for negative feedback. I.E a negative would automatically send a PM to an admin so they could find out what is going on before a flame war starts.

That, or we only do a positives system where it only displays, "Datech has successfully marketed 4 items" and "Luke122 has successfully marketed 134 items." A system like that wouldn't be overly complicated, and users wouldn't have to focus on item quality and price range, only that User A sold/traded X number or items and X number of buyers were happy with it.

[nevermind1534]

The ben heck forums have a feedback thread, and it seems to work out ok.

[Luke122]

Sorry, I should clarify what I mean by "treat it like ebay". Be detailed and honest in your description, photos, and shipping information (for sellers), and be throrough in verifiying, cover your butt when paying, and triple check payment and shipping details (for buyers).

I like the feedback idea, and I also like the PM idea (Seller posts, interested party posts a "PM Sent" reply to the thread, when item sells, seller posts "SOLD" and/or edits the original post. )

[knowledgegranted]

@luke122

Ah, see now I have to go back and change my post so I don't sound like an idiot :dead:. Thanks for the clarification on that though, I have seen forums that have small auctions like that and thought thats what you meant.

The Feedback sounds like a great idea, special ops paintball also has one and it works great.

[jdbnsn]

We are looking into a feedback plugin that works much like ebay's (buyers and sellers leave + or - and description of transaction). As of now, you can use any system you want for communicating your sales, or items needed. You can even open a thread like a store and make multiple items available in your first post, then just edit that post if something sells. As for reporting bad deals, until we get proper system set up, you need to handle these between yourselves, not posting them in the forums.

[Omega]

I will be heading up writing up rules and regulations for the trading post when I get home a few hours from now.

[crenn]

May I recommend that sellers and buyers use Paypal for transactions, it will offer a little bit of protection.

[simon275]

Yeah Paypal only and a feedback system are a must.

Also we need a buyer beware clause in the Terms and Conditions.

[NightrainSrt4]

If you can't add another feedback system, there is always http://www.heatware.com/. Several other pc forums use that, among other places. It works like ebay feedback in that you leave pos/neg feedback for items purchased. Each person just makes an account and leaves feedback after successful purchases.

It may not be perfect, but seems to work well. And on some other forums you cant get anything sold without sufficient heatware.

[jdbnsn]

We will do our best to make it safe trading environment, Omega has already put in a great effort at producing a list of rules/regulations to be followed that will further protect people. But all in all, this community is a very open and civil one. I'm confident that poor experiences will be rare here, and if I'm wrong, we just close it down so it can't happen again.

[chaksq]

I am not sure if this is in the rules but one thing a car forum I am on requires in their trading section is a great idea I think we should use here. Basically all for sale items are required to have a photo, the photo must include a piece of paper with the seller's username & the website as well as being dated to the month the thread is posted. If photo is not included the thread is locked until the required photos are posted, and then can be unlocked by the trade forum moderator.

[Spawn-Inc]

That, or we only do a positives system where it only displays, "Datech has successfully marketed 4 items" and "Luke122 has successfully marketed 134 items." A system like that wouldn't be overly complicated, and users wouldn't have to focus on item quality and price range, only that User A sold/traded X number or items and X number of buyers were happy with it.

but you also need to know of any bad transactions and some kind of message you can leave as to what happened, like ebay.

[Datech]

but you also need to know of any bad transactions and some kind of message you can leave as to what happened, like ebay.

I was thinking in terms of scale. Since this forum is relatively small, most bad transactions would hopefully be a one time thing that would be immediately reported to an admin and handled. I would think that if you had more than one intentionally bad sell on TBCS you would be shunned out of the Trading Post and off the site relatively quickly, as I doubt many of our members would put up with it.

I'm usually a very optimistic person, so I would like to think that the Trading Post would be a very friendly place for insiders and outsiders alike. My system would exist such that a new guy could come and see, "Oh, hey, Spawn has sold over 1000 items and he's still here, I don't have to worry about buying something from him. Oh, hey, Luke122 has sold 400 items, he seems to be a decent, generous person. Oh, hey, Datech traded 4 different things, I'll be careful with him but there probably isn't too much to worry about"

Once again speaking in scale and back to my pessimistic side, a public negatives system on a site like this could quickly lead to abuse if one or two people took offense to someone and decided to kill his credibility because the "Xbox 360, RROD, parts only" he traded for wouldn't run GTA4 out of the box. Yes, we all realize the buyer is probably an idiot, but if he doesn't make his comments public and decides to recruit three of his friends to use the negative system, it makes the seller look bad in a hurry.

Either way a negatives system probably wont hurt, I just hope that it isn't necessary on TBCS.

[BuzzKillington]

really looking forward to this!! I'm not sure how customizable these forums are but it would awesome to have a... shop type thing in your profile where you can display a picture/asking price then a feedback with reviews.

[jdbnsn]

most bad transactions would hopefully be a one time thing that would be immediately reported to an admin and handled.

Don't make that assumption. Like I said in the trading post, you trade at your own risk. We are working on some ground rules and advice to minimize the chances of you getting hosed, but ultimately it's up to you to settle disputes. Now on the other hand, if there is an outright scammer on the forums and it's clearly a one sided problem, I'd have no issues with handling that post haste.

[Omega]

Don't make that assumption. Like I said in the trading post, you trade at your own risk. We are working on some ground rules and advice to minimize the chances of you getting hosed, but ultimately it's up to you to settle disputes. Now on the other hand, if there is an outright scammer on the forums and it's clearly a one sided problem, I'd have no issues with handling that post haste.

This.


The big thing I'm pushing for with the Trading Post rules (for which I've been met by no opposition) is that TBCS isn't responsible if you get screwed. When the Trading Post was open before, staff would get involved and everything kind of degenerated when the entire forum was rallying behind the staff, who were posting IP addresses, physical addresses and so forth of the offender.

I'm on a forum right now where the policy is pretty much "If you get hosed, too bad. We won't deal with your problems".

Obviously banning/****listing people who repeatedly rip people off will be fine, but for a one-time offense, we probably won't get involved.

That being said, for feedback, I was thinking a subforum, with a thread for each user that has partook in the forum. ie: Jon starts a thread titled 'DaveW' where Jon and other people who have interracted with Dave can leave feedback such as "Shipped slowly" or "produce was as advertised, and at a good price", etc etc. pretty much a fully text-based system.

Right now, we're in the early phases, but I have a feeling once we get everything running at full steam that it's going to be an astonishingly well run system with very, very few fsck-ups; and I have the empirical data to prove it. I'm basing all of our Trading Post stuff like TurboBricks.com handles their for sale/wanted sections, and TurboBricks has an astonishingly effective system.

EDIT:

to quote from Ridemonkey.com:

"This classifieds section if for established Ridemonkey members. It is free. Ridemonkey staff has no involvement in the screening of users or ads, mediating disputes, or investigating bad transactions. It is YOUR responsibility to determine the legitimacy of an ad in these classifieds and to act accordingly. We suggest that you only deal with established Ridemonkey members that you know and trust. In other words, if you are new to this site as a buyer, then buyer beware. If you are new as a seller, Ridemonkey staff reserves the right to delete any ads we deem suspicious at any time."

That's essentially what I'm trying to get TBCS to adopt.

[Zephik]

I am not sure if this is in the rules but one thing a car forum I am on requires in their trading section is a great idea I think we should use here. Basically all for sale items are required to have a photo, the photo must include a piece of paper with the seller's username & the website as well as being dated to the month the thread is posted. If photo is not included the thread is locked until the required photos are posted, and then can be unlocked by the trade forum moderator.

Thats a great idea. Even if its not required, I think I just might do that anyways.

Maybe we should only let members who have been around for a certain amount of time or who have a certain amount of rep or some other form of credibility to be allowed to post their sales? Reason because I don't see any reason to let some person come in here, register to use the forum, then sell their stuff. That, or instead of not letting them post at all, we could let them post but only to an ebay page or something.

[jdbnsn]

Maybe we should only let members who have been around for a certain amount of time or who have a certain amount of rep or some other form of credibility to be allowed to post their sales? Reason because I don't see any reason to let some person come in here, register to use the forum, then sell their stuff. That, or instead of not letting them post at all, we could let them post but only to an ebay page or something.

I've been thinking about this too, and I might have a way to make that possible.

[chaksq]

Thats a great idea. Even if its not required, I think I just might do that anyways.

Maybe we should only let members who have been around for a certain amount of time or who have a certain amount of rep or some other form of credibility to be allowed to post their sales? Reason because I don't see any reason to let some person come in here, register to use the forum, then sell their stuff. That, or instead of not letting them post at all, we could let them post but only to an ebay page or something.
I believe that is another rule on the forum I was referencing earlier. A very good idea that I am in support of.