blu ray or hd?

[public_eyesore]

looks like blu ray already has a burner announced. Which do you think will be better?

http://www.engadget.com/2005/12/27/pioneer-brd-101a-blu-ray-burner-officially-announced/

[Dark-hobo]

Blu ray is far superior. They have the technology up to 40gb of storage on one disk now. It is like a second hard drive! Besides HD DVD still uses red lasers and that limits them the blu has a shorter wavelength and frequency so it can read smaller bits of data. The red is limited by size.

[Xato]

Blue lasers are sexy.

[wingman358]

BluRay because I'm a Sony fanboy. Also because you can theoretically have 100GB discs. Wouldn't that be so sweet?

[Xato]

100gb Rewritable too.

[abnoea]

all those who watch anime (myself) would absolutely LOVE to see 100gb disks..... =D

could fit almost 600 episodes on one disk.... amazing, eh?

[adreamtraveler]

*SLAPS HIMSELF*......wait...no i still don't believe it....*SLAPS HIMSELF A FEW MORE TIMES* ...wow man...this is not a dream..lol i can't wait!!....100GB per disc...it's gonna be like the 5th element pretty soon...lol man we have the technology to get 100GBs per disc....where are the hover cars??? hehe :D

[Dark-hobo]

100gb is far off though, maybe 2 years. Unless they already have the technology but are withholding it to make profit on lower tech bluray then realeasing high tech bluray and making more. Sound business strategy but tends to piss of the wiser consumers.

[crenn]

You can only get 100GB on blueray disc is you use triple layers. I read this before.

I think HD-DVD will be a poor man's Blu-ray but Blu-ray is going to be very expensive to produce. I'm in support of both..... I just hate one console using the blu-ray.

[Judgement]

one console useing the blu-ray as in u hate Xbox360 or PS3 because they both use/will use it

[Malatory]

Nice thing about Blue-ray is that Japan will be region 1 with the US so import of Disk wont require region free players. I been waiting for this one for about 6-7 years. As I had a customer that would and call to tell me about some of the improvements that were going on. If he wasn't breaking any NDA then he had some good inside sources. (I did find the information about 2-3 weeks later).

HD doesnt have region coding.

[Rankenphile]

100gb is far off though, maybe 2 years. Unless they already have the technology but are withholding it to make profit on lower tech bluray then realeasing high tech bluray and making more. Sound business strategy but tends to piss of the wiser consumers.

Unfortunately, the "wiser consumers" tend to be few and far between, and they know it.

Honestly, I love the idea of Blu-ray, but with Sony's horrible DRM track record, especially with the recent root kit scandal, I don't know how excited I am about it. Frankly, I was a bit of a Sony fanboy before all that, and it really made me take a look at some of their business practices. Now, I'm very turned off by them, as a company.

Regardless, no matter how excited we get, this is going to be one of those things that is decided by the mass market, will lead to market schizms in media for a couple years, and will only hurt the general consumer until it is standardized into one format, regardless of which format comes out the victor.

I mean, anyone remember Betamax? Same deal, except studios are already signing exclusive deals with one media or another, meaning if you want the premium content available on the new formats, you're almost forced to own one of each device.

[crenn]

lol. The 360 is using HD-DVD but not Blu-ray. I hate all PSs

[Hertzberg]

Yes, Xbox 360 is using HD-DVD. ps3 will come with Blu-Ray, Dont know what Revolution will come then though, And 100 Gig Disch have been annouced, So I will come in the right time

[public_eyesore]

xbox 360 will not use hd for games though, its just gonna be an add on to watch movies.

I heard that since microsoft made that decision thought that elder scrolls might be multiple discs, even up to four of them. lol

[Judgement]

Xbox 360 games are set to the standard 7.95GiB of storage available on a dual-layer DVD. Due to the limited space of standard DVDs, some games made for the system may span multiple discs. The Nintendo Revolution will use a proprietary disc of similar capacity while the PlayStation 3 will have the ability to use 25GB or 50GB Blu-Ray Discs, although Blu-Ray specifications are not finalized yet.

ok so Sony 1s up microsoft again WAY TO GO SONY (my 360s great and all but it was just microsofts BS way to make more money they could have easly just put all there games on the PC) Playstation all the way for me

[Dark-hobo]

so 100gb was announced? I missed that :P, cool.

[Rankenphile]

Yeah, MS kind of missed the mark by failing to incorporate the HD-DVD drive in their system at launch. Big mistake, imho. However, I'm positive they had their marketing goons and their engineering goons go over an dover the reasons for it before the final decision was made, so I'm not gunna stress about it either.

I used to be a big fan of Sony and the Playstation consoles. I still love my PS2, and will inevitably own a PS3 eventually, but I jsut really really feel like Sony burned the world and the consumer base in general with this root kit fiasco, and showed the world what they really think in terms of DRM, copyright and intellectual property ownership. Not only that, but their PSP is an incredible model of wasted potential.

Instead of focusing their attention on creating brilliant applications and games to make the system a standout, truly the next generation of handheld gaming systems, they've wasted it combatting "hackers" (modders) who are writing new applications for the system that they spent a large amount of cash to purchase. To Sony, writing new software for your PSP without approval for them is in direct violation with their EULA. To them, you don't actually own your system, you are licensed to use it until you break their user agreements.

They spent more time rewriting the OS on their damn PSP, doing nothing more than making it harder and harder for programmers to create their own apps and add-ons for the system, than they did actually upgrading it and incorporating a small percentage of applications that there was obviously a need for in the first place - people wouldn't write these apps (aside from the illegal software backup apps) if there wasn't a need for them on a system that had the potential to run it in the first place.

Microsoft did one thing right with the Xbox/Xbox360. They watched the active modding community, and while they never supported it, they didn't actively condemn it either. You can't use a modded Xbox on Xbox Live, that's no problem. It prevents cheating and all sorts of other illegal and potentially dangerous things. But they watched the modding community, saw that they had built an incomplete box, and incorporated a TON of the popular features that people were adding to their systems, such as Xbox Media Center, the ability to boot and restart your system from the controller, and much more.

Plus, that root kit thing, man, that was EVIL. There are thousands and thousands of systems out there now that were ruined, all because they wanted to play a CD on their computer. The only way to fix it is do do a complete reformat and re-install. Harsh.

[adreamtraveler]

Instead of focusing their attention on creating brilliant applications and games to make the system a standout, truly the next generation of handheld gaming systems, they've wasted it combatting "hackers" (modders) who are writing new applications for the system that they spent a large amount of cash to purchase.

that's so funny because even with all of the money that they spent trying to prevent stuff like that, it hasn't changed anything. my friends are constantly showing me new stuff that they got from the web for their PSP's...they are not happy about the fact that they can't upgrade their PSP software, but it doesn't compare to what they can get by being able to use third party programs.

i think it's so funny that companies try and try and spend millions of dollars trying to prevent reverse engineering. it's practically inevitable, people are always going to be curious and want to know how things work and how they can make it even better. companies should be hiring these people, not suing them. ...that's just my poor man's opinion though ;)

[wingman358]

Plus, that root kit thing, man, that was EVIL. There are thousands and thousands of systems out there now that were ruined, all because they wanted to play a CD on their computer. The only way to fix it is do do a complete reformat and re-install. Harsh.

Are you sure about that? Sony issued a patch that un-hides all the software which you can then delete. Even if they didn't, you can do a system restore. Don't get me wrong though, I'm 100% against the rootkit crap. I was really shocked by the whole ordeal which just kept getting worse.

Anyways, we're getting off topic.

I agree with Rankenphile; Microsoft really blew it by not incorporating HD-DVD into the Xbox360. It almost subtracts from their early release (as opposed to Sony).

[Rankenphile]

Are you sure about that? Sony issued a patch that un-hides all the software which you can then delete. Even if they didn't, you can do a system restore. Don't get me wrong though, I'm 100% against the rootkit crap. I was really shocked by the whole ordeal which just kept getting worse.

Anyways, we're getting off topic.

I agree with Rankenphile; Microsoft really blew it by not incorporating HD-DVD into the Xbox360. It almost subtracts from their early release (as opposed to Sony).

Positive. The patch doesn't remove the vulnerability at all, it only un-hides the files which were hidden. The root kit is in the OS kernel base, so it can never be removed without a complete system wipe. The vulnerability will always be there.

Huge mistake on Sony's part, and I hope desperately that they are held accountable for it.

[Dark-hobo]

@ Wingman358

The xbox 360 does have HD-DVD support but they are not going to use it for games. It is only be an added bonus for videos.

[wingman358]

@ Wingman358

The xbox 360 does have HD-DVD support but they are not going to use it for games. It is only be an added bonus for videos.

Not true. The Xbox360s that you can buy now are NOT HD-DVD compatible in any way. They contain standard DVD players, whether you buy the Core system or the Premium one. However, later versions of the Xbox360s WILL have the HD-DVD drives installed on them.

[crenn]

That is true. But I think people are able to get the new drives installed by microsoft for free..... I think.

[crenn]

Yeah, MS kind of missed the mark by failing to incorporate the HD-DVD drive in their system at launch. Big mistake, imho. However, I'm positive they had their marketing goons and their engineering goons go over an dover the reasons for it before the final decision was made, so I'm not gunna stress about it either.

As I said in my last post, I think I've read somewhere that Microsoft will provide free drives to unmodded Xbox 360 (does not mean changing skins AFAIK) as the technology isn't quite available currently


I used to be a big fan of Sony and the Playstation consoles. I still love my PS2, and will inevitably own a PS3 eventually, but I jsut really really feel like Sony burned the world and the consumer base in general with this root kit fiasco, and showed the world what they really think in terms of DRM, copyright and intellectual property ownership. Not only that, but their PSP is an incredible model of wasted potential.
I'm mainly a fan for sony laptops and their aibo. I've only recently started liking the PSP due to one thing. I am a major racing game fan, and most of the games are racing. So, currently the PSP doesn't reach out to all people, it only reaches out to people like me, who like these types of games on the PSP.

Instead of focusing their attention on creating brilliant applications and games to make the system a standout, truly the next generation of handheld gaming systems, they've wasted it combatting "hackers" (modders) who are writing new applications for the system that they spent a large amount of cash to purchase. To Sony, writing new software for your PSP without approval for them is in direct violation with their EULA. To them, you don't actually own your system, you are licensed to use it until you break their user agreements.
IF you actually update your PSP, their is a fake fireware update that allows you to combat this. It is like hardware, if you make unnessicary mods to say a DVD burner it's not covered by warranty if something goes wrong. Sony is just covering their arses so they can't get sued by people who use software which ruins their PSP. You do own the system, you can mod it how ever you want, but if something goes wrong, it's your own fault and not sony's.

They spent more time rewriting the OS on their damn PSP, doing nothing more than making it harder and harder for programmers to create their own apps and add-ons for the system, than they did actually upgrading it and incorporating a small percentage of applications that there was obviously a need for in the first place - people wouldn't write these apps (aside from the illegal software backup apps) if there wasn't a need for them on a system that had the potential to run it in the first place.
For just norma gamers this is not a problem as it fixes software bugs etc. But for modders like us, we want something more. You can use fake fimware updates to use their software. There is still a couple of flaws in the PSP, and hackers and modders are using this. Sony once again is trying to cover their arses. Also how long does it take to write a update or rewrite a entire firmware OS? Thijngs take time, sure sony could have added new features but they don't see the need too.

Microsoft did one thing right with the Xbox/Xbox360. They watched the active modding community, and while they never supported it, they didn't actively condemn it either. You can't use a modded Xbox on Xbox Live, that's no problem. It prevents cheating and all sorts of other illegal and potentially dangerous things. But they watched the modding community, saw that they had built an incomplete box, and incorporated a TON of the popular features that people were adding to their systems, such as Xbox Media Center, the ability to boot and restart your system from the controller, and much more.
There are also other things which make the XBox 360 users more happy as the wired controller are compatible with your Windows computer. And if you didn't know XBox controllers are actually USB controllers with a different plug, there is a tutorial on how to convert them to USB!! And it is possible to restart games with the XBox, hold the start and back buttons and it will restart the game. I have an unmodded Xbox so I can confirm this with the 3 games I own.


Plus, that root kit thing, man, that was EVIL. There are thousands and thousands of systems out there now that were ruined, all because they wanted to play a CD on their computer. The only way to fix it is do do a complete reformat and re-install. Harsh.
There are now tools avaible to remove the DRM software. But now sony have allow a reason for people to sue them. Linux user's should be happy as if I remember correctly, it doesn't affect them...

[wingman358]

That is true. But I think people are able to get the new drives installed by microsoft for free..... I think.

When I said that the current Xbox360s aren't compatible with HD-DVD, I meant that you can't stick an HD-DVD format disc into the Xbox360 and expect it to work, due to the fact that they only have standard DVD drives.

[Rankenphile]

Good points, all, Crenn. I stand corrected on a number of things.

However, since my dinner is now sitting on my lap and I'm starving, I'm not gunna get any further into this debate tonight.

:D

[crenn]

When I said that the current Xbox360s aren't compatible with HD-DVD, I meant that you can't stick an HD-DVD format disc into the Xbox360 and expect it to work, due to the fact that they only have standard DVD drives.
Ok I misunderstood what you were trying to say. But yes, you're right on that one.

And ran, I will enjoy your reply to this debate.

[Rankenphile]

As I said in my last post, I think I've read somewhere that Microsoft will provide free drives to unmodded Xbox 360 (does not mean changing skins AFAIK) as the technology isn't quite available currently.

Wow, if this is true, that's the first I've heard of it, and I'm very impressed. That is very commendable of MS to take such a step. Not a cheap move, and very wise of them.


I'm mainly a fan for sony laptops and their aibo. I've only recently started liking the PSP due to one thing. I am a major racing game fan, and most of the games are racing. So, currently the PSP doesn't reach out to all people, it only reaches out to people like me, who like these types of games on the PSP.

Agreed, they do do racing games well ont he machine, but again, that just seems to point back to the wasted potential of the machine. When it launched, it was heralding a revolution of the hand-held gaming market, and was the first to offer beautiful 3D graphics at the capacity it did, had a gorgeous wide screen, played movies and was just plain awesome. But... where's the killer content? A bevy of racing games jsut doesn't cut it when you're trying to be the "next big thing". A new system like that requires a few killer apps to make it work. Sure, Lumines is cool. Death Jr. is neat. But how many of the games for the PSP are not just mediocre ports of other games you can play on your PS2 or other system, and in a better format? Seriously.

It's kind of disappointing, in a way, to see the PSP being overtaken by the Nintendo DS. When the DS launched, I looked at it the same way a lot of other people did - skeptical, thinking it was just another wierd one-gimmick toy, and that very few developers were going to support it, especially in any meaningful way. I looked at it as a kids' toy, and the PSP was the grown-ups' portable.

I'm both sad and excited to be proven wrong.

I had reason to want to like the DS - my brother works for Nintendo of America, and I've always had a warm place in my heart for their systems, as they were such a huge part of my childhood - even after the N64 turned into a very disappointing system when the content just didn't show up in it's mid- and late-stages, and the Gamecube really didn't seem to offer much for adult gamers, and the lack of networking and online capabilities really seemed to hamstring it.

Sony, on the other hand, for the last generation, really did things right - they launched with a huge assortment of games, had the best controller on the market (I still think the dual-shock is one of the best controllers ever made), were the first to offer backwards-compatibility (a BRILLIANT move), and allowed for a HUGE library of games, one that neither Xbox or Gamecube have been able to compete with in terms of quantity and often quality.

So watching the PSP sort of fall on its face after such a strong launch is a disappointment. I jsut don't see the content being put out there. The DS, on the other hand, I now am very surprised to be completely enamored with. I'm now playing Mario Kart, online, with friends. I'm playing Animal Crossing in a portable environment, with full online capabilty, and lots of other great content that was never available before. I'm playing Trauma Center and playing a surgery game. A surgery game. My girlfriend is playing Nintendogs. I can’t tell you how cute it is to look over while I’m doing some of my illustration work or playing Civ or something, and see her bent over here DS, saying, “Sit. Sit. No, sit! Yes! Good dog! Come look, I also taught her to roll over!”. These are things that simply cannot be done on any other system, and are offering startlingly new and innovative styles of play – not just minor variations on old game styles, but entirely new genres.

Gabe from Penny Arcade talked about this very thing a few days back, and said how the Mario Kart and Animal Crossing games are not simply ports of the classic games, but are true sequels in their own right, and I think he is probably correct. I was playing Animal Crossing the other day and was astounded at the ease and elegance of the touch-screen interface. It is absolutely intuitive, incredibly simple to use, and one of the best examples of human/computer interface I’ve ever dealt with. It is a pleasure to use.

I’m getting way off my point here, though. My point is that Sony really didn’t launch the PSP the way it should have been, in their haste to be competitive instead of offering and developing new apps and games that make their system truly worth owning. As it is, I don’t think it’s much more exciting than an N-Gage that plays a few movies. And do I really need a portable device to watch Catwoman?

Ouch, that’s harsh.

There is still time, however, and I hope Sony will really try to get developers behind creating new content for their system, pumping new blood into it.

I’m still missing the point, here, too, I think. Sony is missing the boat when it comes to online play. Microsoft, with the launch of the 360, is showing what online play can really be. Their new version of Live is incredible, with beautiful matchmaking, scoring, gamer tags and in-game achievements for every game that anyone can see. That rocks.

Sony, on the other hand, is taking the exact wrong approach – they are allowing for online play, but are basically forcing each developer to come up with their own solution for it, and not offering a central system to serve as the foundation for it all. It makes it unnecessarily difficult and expensive for developers and consumers both.

Also, as excited as I am about the Cell chip and all of it’s capabilities, using a next-generation gaming console for it’s launch is probably a bad move when you’re in a harsh competition. Developers and publishers are going to favor the system that is easier (cheaper) to develop for, and Sony’s developer kits are notoriously tough, especially now since you have to develop for a completely different processor architecture. Microsoft’s, on the other hand, are supposed to be a breeze, especially since they’ve been developing XNA, which if you are not familiar with is the next version of DirectX but is compatible with both Xbox 360 and PC games, which means we may end up seeing a lot of cross-platform games, the way we did with Final Fantasy XI.


IF you actually update your PSP, their is a fake fireware update that allows you to combat this. It is like hardware, if you make unnessicary mods to say a DVD burner it's not covered by warranty if something goes wrong. Sony is just covering their arses so they can't get sued by people who use software which ruins their PSP. You do own the system, you can mod it how ever you want, but if something goes wrong, it's your own fault and not sony's.

For just norma gamers this is not a problem as it fixes software bugs etc. But for modders like us, we want something more. You can use fake fimware updates to use their software. There is still a couple of flaws in the PSP, and hackers and modders are using this. Sony once again is trying to cover their arses. Also how long does it take to write a update or rewrite a entire firmware OS? Thijngs take time, sure sony could have added new features but they don't see the need too.

I know that they finally did incorporate a web browser in their most recent update, but for a long time, all of their updates were nothing but firmware patches that combated the hacks/mods for the system. I just don’t get the mentality of a company that goes out of it’s way to prevent mods to its’ system. Yes, everyone knows that modding their system invalidates their warranty. I don’t think anybody that had the knowledge to mod/hack their PSP thinks that it will remain under warranty for it, and if they do, they’re foolish. And I know it takes a long time to update/rewrite a firmware OS, and that it will probably ship with flaws – I’ve been a PC gamer for many, many, many years (Oregon Trail, anyone?) so I’m very familiar with the idea of patching a flawed launch system. But I hate it. I despise it. I think it is unacceptable to sell a product with flaws because they didn’t want to pay for a proper testing cycle, and forcing the consumer to have to go out and get fixes for the system that should have worked right in the first place.

And as to the comment that Sony didn’t feel the need to add new features: Fine. No problem. So you shipped a system with online capability but no browser. Okay. But why bother going through steps to actively combat people who want to create their own browser? That’s like Ford issuing new seat brackets every few months because people are making more comfortable seats, and sure, the new seat brackets they send sometimes make your chair angle slightly better, but it also means that you can once again only use Ford’s seats. Oh, and you have to go and get the seat brackets.

See what I mean? It just seems like they’re not only not supporting their own customers, but actively preventing a large subset of them from using their property the way they want.



There are also other things which make the XBox 360 users more happy as the wired controller are compatible with your Windows computer. And if you didn't know XBox controllers are actually USB controllers with a different plug, there is a tutorial on how to convert them to USB!! And it is possible to restart games with the XBox, hold the start and back buttons and it will restart the game. I have an unmodded Xbox so I can confirm this with the 3 games I own.

[Rankenphile]

(last post got too long, here is the rest of it)

Oh yeah, I know the 360 controllers are USB, as are the standard Xbox controllers, although they have the weird proprietary plug. I love it.

But I didn’t just mean that a standard Xbox game can be restarted – I was referring to the fact that you can actually boot and shut down your 360 system straight from the controller.

I’m a fan of the xbox modding scene as well as the PC modding scene, and one of my favorite discoveries I made was that in the original xbox controller wires is a yellow wire that is virtually unused – it is used by a few peripherals here and there, but it can be used to install a power/reset button on a controller easily, along with lots of other neat uses. That, I believe, is what gave MS the idea to allow for reset/power the system remotely. I’m probably wrong, however, but I just love that feature!



There are now tools available to remove the DRM software. But now sony have allow a reason for people to sue them. Linux user's should be happy as if I remember correctly, it doesn't affect them...

From my understanding, the patch only prevented the major hole it left in the system in which any file starting with $sys$ became invisible. It didn’t actually remove the hole, it just spackled over it. I may be wrong, again, and would love a link to an article explaining otherwise.


I know the original thread was about Bluray vs. HD-DVD, but you can't really debate it without getting into the rest of the console wars and company history - there is just too much other stuff going on in the background of that discussion, you know. In other words, sorry to hi-jack the thread like this with such off-original-topic stuff.



Whew. Now you know why I didn’t want to get into this while my dinner was on my lap. :D