mobo suggestions

[SXRguyinMA]

Alright, I'm looking for a new mobo so I can run my HD 3870x2s in crossfire. I'd like to stay with my current RAM and CPU (see specs), and also like to keep it under $250. if possible, I'd like to keep the option open of upgrading in the future. or, if a mobo/cpu bundle can be found for under $300 then I'll have my current one to toss in a new build :devious:

I've been eyeballing this one (http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/SearchTools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=3940040&CatId=2547) and this one (http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/SearchTools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=3940038&CatId=2547).

anyone suggest any others? :think:

also, I'd like to stay away form Intel boards. I'd like to play with OC'ing, but Intel boards arent helpful when it comes to that :mad:

[bartvandenberg]

i personally would suggest a asus p5q pro motherboard.
http://ncixus.com/products/?sku=30418&promoid=1033&vpn=P5Q%20Pro&manufacture=ASUS

its way cheaper than those boards, and its an awesome overclocker. I've build 6 systems on the board now, and NEVER had so much as a hiccup with them. My wifes comp has one (with a C2D E8400 @ 4.4ghz) and I have one myself with a C2Q6600 @ 3.55ghz.

Its a simple bios, rock solid chipset (P45) same as the boards you are looking at, and unbeatable price. plus its crossfire, but only at 8X, which doesnt make much of a difference.

Or, you could get this, which is 250 after the MIR, but definately a high end board...

http://www.ncixus.com/products/33398/RAMPAGE%20EXTREME/ASUS/

[SXRguyinMA]

I think I read somewhere that to crossfire 2 hd 3870x2's both PCI's need to be x16 :think:

that 2nd board is sweet, but then I'd have to get DDR3 mem, which is out of the price range as of now. thanks for the suggestions though

[bartvandenberg]

then you need to get this board. p45 chipset, all the goodies, and ddr2


http://www.ncixus.com/products/31244/MAXIMUS%20II%20Formula/ASUS/

[Zephik]

Just did a quick search with your preferences. LGA 775, 4x DDR2, 2x PCI-E x16, under $250, and with possibilities of OC'ing. I believe they all have RAID options too, but forgot to check.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813131299

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813128358

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813131296

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813188026

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813188043

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813188027

Those seem to be the best for your range of what you want. Although some, if not most, only offer x16 + x8, not full x16 + x16. *shrugs* Don't think it will make too much of a difference really.

I only looked through best sellers by the way. So there are probably even better boards out there for all I know, they just aren't "best sellers". Probably the special boards like what bartvandenberg listed (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813131319). (you can get the Formula II for $130 (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813131319R) used btw) But the ones I listed are pretty good in the price/performance ratio department. **Here (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Productcompare.aspx?Submit=ENE&N=2000200280%201070509908%201388027176&StoreType=-1&CompareItemList=N82E16813131319,N82E16813131255,N8 2E16813141005&bop=And) are some high priced best sellers.

Personally, I like the Asus Maximus II Formula the most out of the lot of them. Its definitely at the edge of your budget though.

[SXRguyinMA]

thanks for the info Zephik, however I just read something (PC World April 2007, motherboard ratings article) that says that if you have an SLI board with 2 PCIe x16 slots, you can use a single ATi card, but you cannot crossfire ATi cards on a SLI board, and vice-versa.

pg 112:

Caveat: For a single-card setup, you can use any brand of PCIe graphics board in these systems; but when doubling up, you must use only nVidia cards in SLI motherboards and only ATI cards in CrossFire boards.

so while I loke some of those SLI boards you linked to, I now know I cant use them. I was wondering about that myself...guess I need to find a crossfire-only board, not just a board with 2x PCIe x16 ports :up:

[Zephik]

Most, if not all, P45 motherboards which hit the market will come equipped with two full PCI Express 2.0 x16 sized slots. These slots can support Crossfire multi-GPU operation (or the installation of two independent graphics cards). Unfortunately, the P45 still does not support full PCI Express x16 speeds when multiple cards are installed, splitting the PCI Express x16 lanes into an 8x8 configuration. However, if you are using two PCI Express 2.0 cards in this motherboard, even when connected at x8 speeds, you will be receiving the same bandwidth as a PCI Express x16 (1.0) slot. In reality, this should not be seen as a major limitation, as we have not seen PCI Express x8 mutli-GPU configurations limit gaming performance to any significant degree in a Crossfire configuration.


The original Asus Maximus was based on the Intel X38 chipset and came in two flavours, the Formula (DDR2) and Extreme (DDR3) editions, and rapidly became the choice platforms for anyone wishing to utilise multi-GPU (Crossfire) configurations. These motherboards were then superseded with the X48-based Asus Rampage Formula (DDR2), which officially supported higher frequencies than its X38 sibling while also supporting dual PCIe 2.0 16x slots. So where does that leave the Maximus II? Well, as mentioned previously, the Maximus II is a P45-based motherboard, but confusingly the P45 does not support dual x16 PCIe 2.0 slots when used in Crossfire mode, which the original Maximus did.

So a step back then? Well, yes and no. Firstly, the P45 chipset supports a single x16 PCIe 2.0 or dual x8 PCIe 2.0 lanes in Crossfire mode and, while it appears that 8 less lanes per channel is detrimental to performance, actual figures between x16+x16 and x8+x8 are very similar and certainly not as restrictive as one might think. Add to the fact that next gen PCIe 2.0 offers twice the bandwidth of PCIe 1.1 and it becomes apparent that x8 PCIe 2.0 is no slouch. This, however, was with testing 3870x2 in Crossfire mode which, due to the onboard bridging chip used in 3870x2's, limits the card to PCIe 1.1. So how this will translate to PCIe 2.0 cards used in Crossfire is debatable and something we will strive to investigate in future reviews. Secondly, the P45 chipset appears to be a better overclocking platform than its X38/X48 stablemate, with improved power delivery and an increase in attainable FSB.


As you may recall, the P35 and even older P965 chipsets were not ideal if you wanted Crossfire support. The limitation of running only one graphics card in PCI Express 16x mode, while the second was limited to PCIe 4x could hurt performance. Even when manufacturers eventually found its way around this, for the most part users were left with the choice of the more expensive X38/X48 chipsets.

Intel has now solved this issue by including digital switches that can share the PCIe 16x bus amongst both slots, balancing the bandwidth. This is similar to how the Nvidia nForce 750i chipset works, which should help Crossfire become an even more competitive solution against SLI.

It looks like you can run your cards in crossfire, but they will only run in x8 + x8? Those were quotes taken from reviews on the Asus Maximus II Formula by the way. Even some of the reviews on the newegg product page have people saying they have two cards in crossfire. It also seems that it doesn't make much of a difference whether you run them in x16 + x16 or in x8 + x8.

[SXRguyinMA]

thanks for the info, I've still got a lot of research to do. hell, maybe I'll just save up for a while and get a new i7 CF mobo with DDR3 and whatnot as a package

:edit: gotta spread some rep first

[mtekk]

Hey guys, just because it is LGA775 does not mean it will support NetBurst core CPUs, he has a Pentium D820. Intel chipsets starting with the P35 series dropped support for NetBurst cores (I believe the P965 was the last one to support P4s and the Pentium D series). I ran into this problem myself, the current board I have does not support the Pentium D so I ended up having to buy a C2D (Not really a problem, my E8500 is the fastest processor I've ever had). So essentially, if you want to get a new board, you need to ge a new processor as well (not a bad thing as the Pentium D 820 is pretty weak compared to most C2Ds out there).

[SXRguyinMA]

I think I'm going to get the P5Q Deluxe (http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/SearchTools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=3940040&CatId=2547).


This advanced ATX platform has been specially built for Intel Core 2 Extreme, Core 2 Quad, Core 2 Duo, Pentium dual-core, Celeron dual-core, and Celeron processors. And it's compatible with Intel 05B/05A/06 and Intel 45nm multi-core CPUs

[Luke122]

I had a D820 too.. with good air cooling, I hit 3.7ghz on mine! People with water have pushed it up as high as 4.2ghz I believe. :D

Get a C2D anyways. ;)

[SXRguyinMA]

well I figure I'll get the mobo for now, then when I have some more money to spend I'll upgrade to a c2d or maybe even a c2q, depending on how the prices go

[mtekk]

I think I'm going to get the P5Q Deluxe (http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/SearchTools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=3940040&CatId=2547).

Intel Pentium Dual Core != Pentium D. That motherboard will not support your Pentium D 820. The P45 does not support Netbust cores (e.g. Pentium 4, Celeron D, or Pentium D), that's why it requires the 400 series of celerons. Everything since P35 chipset has not supported Netburst processors (see http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/intel-intros-3-series-chipsets-fsb1333-ddr3,1607-3.html ).

[SXRguyinMA]

This advanced ATX platform has been specially built for Intel Core 2 Extreme, Core 2 Quad, Core 2 Duo, Pentium dual-core, Celeron dual-core, and Celeron processors. And it's compatible with Intel 05B/05A/06 and Intel 45nm multi-core CPUs

according to that it will work

[mtekk]

No it will not, the Pentium Dual Core is not the same as the Pentium D. The Pentium Dual Core is based off of the conroe core, Pentium D was either a presler or a smithfield core depending on if it was the 800 or 900 series. If the board will not support the Pentium 4 it can not support the Pentium D. Unless it is covered under those Intel 05A/05B/06 numbers, which I'm in the process of looking up.

--edit--
Ok, according to http://processorfinder.intel.com/list.aspx?ProcFam=2112 it may work, but I wouldn't count on it. I have a Pentium D 820 and can verify that it can't work on a gigabyte P45 motherboard or an intel G31 motherboard.

--edit2--
Ok, according to http://74.125.95.132/search?q=cache:GefcH03Mx4QJ:support.asus.de/cpusupport/cpu_support_right_master.aspx%3Ftype%3D1%26name%3D P5Q%2520Deluxe%26SLanguage%3Den-us+Pentium+D+820+on+P5Q+Deluxe&cd=17&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us&client=firefox-a the 820 should work on that board, which is very strange as the P45 is not supposed to support Netburst processors.

[Zephik]

Its probably the same as that whole crossfire thing. In the past, not too long ago, it wouldn't have worked on this or that board. Today it works just fine, on the same exact board(s).

Technology updates retardedly fast. What wasn't possible yesterday is more than likely possible today.

Also, most boards don't tell you every processor they support. You'll usually have to go to the product page and look it up specifically to make sure. These days, its a pretty safe bet that as long as its LGA 775, an LGA 775 processor will more than likely work with it.

As for the Pentium D and Pentium Dual Core thing. If it says Pentium D, then its the old version. If it says Pentium Dual Core, then its the new version. It gets confusing because I believe the D on the old one stands for dual core and the new one is called Dual Core. But thats pretty much it. Pentium D stands for dual core, but it is still called Pentium D. Pentium Dual Core is a whole different processor line. Its pretty stupid if you ask me. "Pentium D v2" would of been so much easier. lol (same thing with the celerons. gah, don't bring back old processors and revamp them with the same or similar names! Its too damn confusing and makes you feel like you have old tech!)

[mtekk]

Also, most boards don't tell you every processor they support. You'll usually have to go to the product page and look it up specifically to make sure. These days, its a pretty safe bet that as long as its LGA 775, an LGA 775 processor will more than likely work with it.


Not really, most new LGA 775 boards do not support netburst CPUs, there are a few "gems" out there that do support just about everything that has been on a LGA 775 socket, the P5Q Deluxe looks to be one of these. I have two built by intel motherboards, one Q45 and one Q35 based both do not support the Pentium D, I know from first hand experience.



As for the Pentium D and Pentium Dual Core thing. If it says Pentium D, then its the old version. If it says Pentium Dual Core, then its the new version. It gets confusing because I believe the D on the old one stands for dual core and the new one is called Dual Core. But thats pretty much it. Pentium D stands for dual core, but it is still called Pentium D. Pentium Dual Core is a whole different processor line. Its pretty stupid if you ask me. "Pentium D v2" would of been so much easier. lol (same thing with the celerons. gah, don't bring back old processors and revamp them with the same or similar names! Its too damn confusing and makes you feel like you have old tech!)

Pretty much, the whole Pentium D vs Pentium Dual Core thing is a major pitfall.

[NightrainSrt4]

I don't know if it will work or not, too tired to check right now, but he's correct that Pentium Dual Core != Pentium D. Pentium Dual Cores include the E2100/2200 series, E4300, and the E5200 and several others, but not the Pentium D's. Completely different cores. Stupid naming schemes.