Major help required: Setting up a home studio

[Indybird]

Ok, so my friends and I have a band that we need recorded. Coincidentally we had a lot of equipment that would be very useful for recording. So we bought a few more items (which I'll go over in a sec) to get us 100% set for recording our band. We get everything setup about 3 weeks ago and ever since have been trying to figure out why it sounds so bad.

So before wasting anymore of our time, we decided to consult some pros. Both of my friends know some people who might be able to help us, but I personally don't. Then I remembered that we have a whole ton of audio experts here. So if you guys wouldn't mind, I would greatly appreciate some help setting up our studio.

So heres how it is.

Our current problems:
-Clipping audio (partly solved by turning the mics down, but results in very quiet recordings)
-Published tracks (uncompressed .wav) have added clipping issues
-Inaccurately recorded tone

What we need to record:
-Electric Guitar on a Vox amp
-Electric Bass (direct or miked (sp?))
-Vocals

Heres what equipment we have:
-Behringer 16 Channel mixer
-Behringer 12 Channel mixer
-Behringer 8 Channel mixer
-Shure 57 Dynamic Mic
-Shure 58 Beta Dynamic Mic
-Sterling Audio Condenser Mic w/ shock mount
-Generic 2-in 2-out USB Recording interface
-Lexicon Omega 6-in 6-out USB Recording interface
-Ableton Live Recording Software
-Tons of sound-proof foam pieces (all app. 1' x 6" or 30cm x 15cm)

We are pretty experienced at mixing for shows, but when it comes to recording we are obviously doing something very wrong. Any hints or tutorials are massively appreciated.

Thanks,
Indybird

[Luke122]

Our current problems:
-Clipping audio (partly solved by turning the mics down, but results in very quiet recordings)
-Published tracks (uncompressed .wav) have added clipping issues
-Inaccurately recorded tone

1. Clipping Audio: Chances are that the mic is simply being saturated with the volume, and that is causing your clipping/distortion. Try moving the mic away from the source a bit more. If possible, isolating the amps/speakers in a separate room with a mic in there to record.

Try to keep the vu level just on the edge of the red to get the loudest possible signal into the PC, without clipping. You can always turn down the level of a channel to blend it into the mix, but if you dont get a loud enough recording initially, you'll end up adding tons of noise when you turn up the volume on it.

2. Uncompressed WAV's have clipping issues: Sounds like either CPU or RAM is the culprit here. The system for recording should have at least 4gb ram, core2 2ghz+, and all the free HDD space you can spare.

Ideally, the drive you are recording to is NOT the OS/System drive. USB external drives are "ok", but they require CPU cycles to operate... CPU cycles which are needed to ensure error free recording. If you have to go external, go with Firewire. If possible, the recording drive should be dedicated, and internal.

If issues persist, try a defrag.

3. Inaccurate tone: This can also be attributed to mic saturation, so you might kill two birds with one stone. It could also be mic placement, any effects in the loop (make sure your effects are off on the mixers), or even insufficient computer resources. Pitch drops can happen if the system is taxed heavily.

For the PC, kill every process that isnt needed... that should be A LOT. No AV, no network, no screensavers, turn off all the graphic goodies, etc.

This is just personal preference on my part, but I use a USB interface also, so I try to eliminate all other USB devices to prevent any possible issues. This includes kb and mouse.. go PS2 for those.

Ideally, firewire is the way to go for interfaces too, but dont spend money until you've tried the above tips. :)

[Indybird]

[B]Our current problems:
1. Clipping Audio: Chances are that the mic is simply being saturated with the volume, and that is causing your clipping/distortion. Try moving the mic away from the source a bit more. If possible, isolating the amps/speakers in a separate room with a mic in there to record.

Try to keep the vu level just on the edge of the red to get the loudest possible signal into the PC, without clipping. You can always turn down the level of a channel to blend it into the mix, but if you dont get a loud enough recording initially, you'll end up adding tons of noise when you turn up the volume on it.
Ok, we made sure the vu level gets just on the edge of the vu meter but I have a question about the mic. We really can't record anywhere but in our main room (which is kinda big); wouldn't moving the mic further away from the amp give it a roomy sound? If so, how can prevent the saturation and roominess?



2. Uncompressed WAV's have clipping issues: Sounds like either CPU or RAM is the culprit here. The system for recording should have at least 4gb ram, core2 2ghz+, and all the free HDD space you can spare.

Ideally, the drive you are recording to is NOT the OS/System drive. USB external drives are "ok", but they require CPU cycles to operate... CPU cycles which are needed to ensure error free recording. If you have to go external, go with Firewire. If possible, the recording drive should be dedicated, and internal.

If issues persist, try a defrag.

I know the computer isn't the problem: AMD Phenom 2.3GHz Quad Core, 4GB DDR2 800 Memory.

We're going to try an external eSATA drive now. One question though, does it matter if there is other data on the drive (unused by this computer tho)?


3. Inaccurate tone: This can also be attributed to mic saturation, so you might kill two birds with one stone. It could also be mic placement, any effects in the loop (make sure your effects are off on the mixers), or even insufficient computer resources. Pitch drops can happen if the system is taxed heavily.

We've made sure the mixer has flat EQs and we start with no effects in Ableton. Our main problem with tone is with our vocals; we are using a Shure 58A Beta microphone (which is designed for vocals), but it is very trebley (sp?), and simply raising the bass on any eqs clips the audio.



For the PC, kill every process that isnt needed... that should be A LOT. No AV, no network, no screensavers, turn off all the graphic goodies, etc.

We're going to make a separate user account where there are no programs running in the background or at startup.



This is just personal preference on my part, but I use a USB interface also, so I try to eliminate all other USB devices to prevent any possible issues. This includes kb and mouse.. go PS2 for those.

Does using a PS2 mouse and keyboard really make a noticeable difference?



Ideally, firewire is the way to go for interfaces too, but dont spend money until you've tried the above tips. :)

We really want to go firewire, namely a Presonus Firepod or similar interface, but we just don't have the cash right now. :(

We weren't able to try recording after you're tips because we started having an old playback issue. The playback from Ableton is VERY glitchy (all other programs are fine), do you know what the problem could be?

Thank you so much for taking the time to help me in such detail. +rep EDIT: Apparently I need to give some other people rep, before I can give you rep again :rolleyes:

Thanks,
Indybird

[Luke122]

Ok, we made sure the vu level gets just on the edge of the vu meter but I have a question about the mic. We really can't record anywhere but in our main room (which is kinda big); wouldn't moving the mic further away from the amp give it a roomy sound? If so, how can prevent the saturation and roominess?

Turn down the volume on the amp ;) Moving the mic away will definitely give the guitar a bit of a distant sound, but it likely wont be super noticeable since it's not really that far. Also, make sure to isolate the mic on all sides (except facing the amp) with the foam. That should help cut down on reflections from around the room, and keep the sound a little more focused (less saturation).

I know the computer isn't the problem: AMD Phenom 2.3GHz Quad Core, 4GB DDR2 800 Memory.

We're going to try an external eSATA drive now. One question though, does it matter if there is other data on the drive (unused by this computer tho)?

I wouldnt think so, but as long as you defrag it, should be no issues.

We've made sure the mixer has flat EQs and we start with no effects in Ableton. Our main problem with tone is with our vocals; we are using a Shure 58A Beta microphone (which is designed for vocals), but it is very trebley (sp?), and simply raising the bass on any eqs clips the audio.

Maybe dial down the treble a bit on the mixer, rather than boosting the bass. If it's clipping with any bass added, then it's probably too hot.. maybe dial it back a bit.


We're going to make a separate user account where there are no programs running in the background or at startup.

That's what I did on mine too. Make sure you kill as much stuff as possible, including network.
Does the using a PS2 mouse and keyboard really make a noticeable difference?
I dont know for sure, but I didnt want to risk it.

We really want to go firewire, namely a Presonus Firepod or similar interface, but we just don't have the cash right now. :(

I hear that man.. broke here also.

We weren't able to try recording after you're tips because we started having an old playback issue. The playback from Ableton is VERY glitchy (all other programs are fine), do you know what the problem could be?

Defrag on the disk maybe? I use Audacity almost exclusively these days..

:D

[Crazy Buddhist]

"Does the using a PS2 mouse and keyboard really make a noticeable difference?"

Quite possibly a cause of many of your problems as each device on the USB bus will reserve bandwidth on that bus limiting or capping throughput from other devices. I would have nothing on the bus but the recording device you are using or if you must have additional USB devices put them on a USB PCI card.

CB

[Indybird]

"Does using a PS2 mouse and keyboard really make a noticeable difference?"

Quite possibly a cause of many of your problems as each device on the USB bus will reserve bandwidth on that bus limiting or capping throughput from other devices. I would have nothing on the bus but the recording device you are using or if you must have additional USB devices put them on a USB PCI card.

CB

Do you think we would be ok with a Logitech G15 (LCD disabled), a Logitech G9 and the USB recording interface?

Thanks,
Indybird

[Crazy Buddhist]

Do you think we would be ok with a Logitech G15 (LCD disabled), a Logitech G9 and the USB recording interface?

Thanks,
Indybird

You might and you might not. PS2 mouse and keboard will put NO strain on the USB bus. The bus on my mobo sometimes fails on hiigh throughput activities and I have to switch off other devices.

Having said that you have some sound/mic suggestions to try and these might solve the problem and you might have enough USB throughput.

Equally you probably have a PS2 keyboard and mouse sitting round somewhere and trying the experiment won't cost much.

With regard to the sound .. You have some good insulating materials and if you want to do any level of serious recording I'd be constructing a sound booth if I were you.

Lastly I would suggest you tweak ONE thing at a time. You have a number of suggestions. Changing one at a time will help you work out which one/ones were the issue.

Matthew

[Luke122]

CB: back from the dead!

[Crazy Buddhist]

CB: back from the dead!

I never went far.

[HackSore]

Try cubase or nuendo for recording if you can, pretty rugged programs.

As for the mic'd amp issue, you dont need an amp to be particularly loud to get a sweet sound for recording, cranking it up too much will definitely create clipping and other unwanted distortion.

Also, if you are running a DI or a mic into a mixer, then out into the recording device, try just DI'ing or mic'ing straight into the recording device and eq'ing within the program, see if it makes a noticable difference.

What has also jumped into my mind...you say you are using a generic usb recording device? do you have a soundcard/onboard sound in the system as well? as if you do its possible there is some sort of conflict going on.
If you have a soundcard try taking it out or disabling it in hardware profiles and see if it helps.

If none of these things help, use a diagnostics tool to check your hardware components, as a small fault could cause big problems with recording, especially if its a hard drive issue.

[Indybird]

Try cubase or nuendo for recording if you can, pretty rugged programs.

We would like to try another program but we're flat broke, so other programs aren't really an option right now. Besides a million and one people use Ableton and have no problems, how could it be so popular if we're having so many problems with it?

As for the mic'd amp issue, you dont need an amp to be particularly loud to get a sweet sound for recording, cranking it up too much will definitely create clipping and other unwanted distortion.

One of the things is we can't turn down the Guitar amp because we use its high levels for natural distortion (it sounds a million times better than a distortion pedal).

Also, if you are running a DI or a mic into a mixer, then out into the recording device, try just DI'ing or mic'ing straight into the recording device and eq'ing within the program, see if it makes a noticable difference.

What has also jumped into my mind...you say you are using a generic usb recording device? do you have a soundcard/onboard sound in the system as well? as if you do its possible there is some sort of conflict going on.
If you have a soundcard try taking it out or disabling it in hardware profiles and see if it helps.

We'll have to try that, I could see that being the problem.

If none of these things help, use a diagnostics tool to check your hardware components, as a small fault could cause big problems with recording, especially if its a hard drive issue.

Thanks for the help, +rep

-Indybird

[Luke122]

Audacity is free, and awesome. :D

I agree that overdriving an amp sounds way better than a pedal. If you are running the Vox AC30, then an attenuator might be the way to go.

+1 on checking for audio conflicts. :)

[Indybird]

Audacity is free, and awesome. :D

I tried Audacity, but I felt like it didn't have the flexibility we needed. Thanks for the suggestion though.

I agree that overdriving an amp sounds way better than a pedal. If you are running the Vox AC30, then an attenuator might be the way to go.

Actually we are running one of these:
http://www.guitarramania.info/wp-content/uploads/2009/05/222778.jpg (http://www.voxamps.com/us/modernclassic/ac4tv/)
A Vox AC4TV, which has the built in attenuator.

+1 on checking for audio conflicts. :)
Definitely going to try that.



-Indybird

[Luke122]

Ooooo... AC4TV's sound NIIIIIIIIICE!!!

I'm looking at a Blackheart Little Giant for my next amp. It's many $$$ away though..

[HackSore]

We would like to try another program but we're flat broke, so other programs aren't really an option right now. Besides a million and one people use Ableton and have no problems, how could it be so popular if we're having so many problems with it?

Im not saying ableton isnt up to the job, or that the problems are commonplace, i just wouldnt trust it for live recording. Thats just my personal stance though, and i must admit i have only played around with it a little. It seems good for sampling and synthing and stuff, but i dont think i would use it for lengthy instrument recordings. And i was just recommending the stienberg stuff for future reference really!

One of the things is we can't turn down the Guitar amp because we use its high levels for natural distortion (it sounds a million times better than a distortion pedal).

Fair enough, personal preference i guess. Mine being a decent distortion pedal on a low volume will sound killer, where as whacking the amp up too loud just looses a lot of the warmth. Guess it depends on what kind of equipment you are running. Anyway im a drummer first and foremost, so i guess you get to ignore my opinion on anything guitar related! haha!



And as luke suggested, give audacity a try, just to see if you experience the same problems. Because if you do, its obviously a hardware issue, and if you dont, its software related.

[Indybird]

Wow. That's all I have to say.

...Just kidding. But seriously; it is amazing how nice some people are. So my friend's father's son runs a hardcore home recording studio. We've never met this guy before, but here's how it went:
My friend gets a hold of this guy asking if he would come inspect our studio and make sure we are doing everything right. This guy comes over helps us reconfigure our microphone setup and answer a whole ton of questions for an hour or so. After that we go over to his recording studio (which was insane btw). There we continue our discussions, and while we are on the subject of studio monitors, he recalls that we don't have any. So mid conversation he goes into his back room and comes back with a pair of these:
http://www.ixbt.com/proaudio/midiman/sp5b/monitors-and-box.jpg

He gave us a pair of M-Audio SP-5B's for free. Free. Now I don't know much about studio monitors, but I do know that average pair runs about $150-180. We just met him today, and he gives us free studio monitors. So anyway after all your pointers, all of his pointers and his generosity I think we finally have a fairly legit recording studio going. I'll give you guys a link to our myspace page once we get our recordings up and done.

-Indybird

[Luke122]

Excellent! Looking forward to some recordings!

I'll be doing some recording tonight too, so maybe we can start a new thread with some of the results! :D Plug your own band!