Chevy Volt - 230mpg

[Zephik]

http://img194.imageshack.us/img194/2503/voltx.jpg
http://scienceblogs.com/goodmath/2009/08/the_chevy_volt_gets_230_mpg_on.php


Battery is expected to be 16 kwh, discharge to 30% and charge to 85% for a 8.8kwh total.
Crude equations assuming $.11 a kwh and $2.50 and not taking charging efficiency into account:
Length < 40 miles: Cost = ((8.8kwh * (miles/40)) * kwh cost)
25 mile trip: (8.8*(25/40)) * $.11 = $.60 or .60/25 = 2.42 cents a mile

Length > 40 miles: Cost = (8.8kwh * kwh cost) + ((miles-40)/50 * gas cost in $/gal)
100 mile trip: (8.8 *.11) + ((100-40)/50 *$2.50) = $3.96 or 3.96/100 = 3.96 cents a mile
1000 mile trip: (8.8 *.11) + ((1000-40)/50 * 2.5) = $48 or 4.8 cents a mile

Or compared to a 30mpg all gas car:
25 mile trip: 25/30*2.5 = $2.08 or $2.08/25 = 8.3 cents a mile
And it would be 8.3 cents a mile for the 100 mile trip as well.

If you take charging efficiency into account except the electric portions of the trip to raise by 20-40%, so the 25 mile in the Volt could be up to 3.3 cents a mile. It's going to take a new kind of looking at to compare these new hybrids, and I can't blame GM for going with the terrible advertising. The truth is most will be sold on 230mpg, when the reality is the math and understanding behind the nature of the car is a lot more impressive.
http://digg.com/autos/The_Chevy_Volt_Gets_230_mpg_Only_if_you_use_bad_ma th

[aintnothang]

They should just throw all that tech into a corvette, a nice looking car. A 230 mpg car that actually looks nice, then I'd be down.

[Zephik]

I've seen worse looking cars. I think they went with this design because its more average person friendly. Flashy cars don't sell well, they just sell for a lot. But I'll agree on that its not the greatest looking car. This whole prius-looking trend needs to stop. Its worse than the box-on-wheels trend.

In any case, its the technology that's important here, not so much the way the car looks. We'll just have to wait for a competitor to step up and create a better looking car. Although I doubt that will happen. Look at every single car that gets good gas mileage that's offered to the general public, all of them look like prius remakes. I wonder if there is a reason for that? Maybe good aerodynamics or something? At least this is the best looking one so far.

[billygoat333]

http://www.teslamotors.com/

just get one of these :)

http://www.businesspundit.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/05/tesla-roadster.jpg

[Zephik]

Aren't Tesla's like $100k though? The Volt is only $40k. Although, the Model S which comes out in 2012 is only $50k and comes in a 160, 230 and 300 mile range whereas the Volt is only a 40 mile range. :/

Then again, the Volt has a gasoline engine as well whereas the Tesla Model S does not which means you can go extended distances as long as you keep filling up, just like with regular cars. With the Tesla, you would have to find a place to charge, which isn't very practical. But then again, you aren't limited to 40 miles like the Volt, you're limited to a minimum of 160.

So here is the question then I guess. Why is the Volt making big news while the Model S isn't? It seems to me like the Model S would be the better car while costing only $10k more...

Edit: Probably because the Model S starts out at 160 mile range while the Volt is 230. ...wait... but it only has a 40 mile range... where the hell do they get the 230mpg?? Hmmm...

[chaksq]

I think the Volt looks pretty good for a car designed to appeal to the masses, however that grill has got to go.

[billygoat333]

the volt reminds me of the acura TL kinda.

I was referring the tesla to aintnothang's comment about the corvette w/ the electric motor lol although yeah the model s will be sweet.

[Collinstheclown]

How about my favorite electric, the Karma (http://karma.fiskerautomotive.com/). mmmmm

Honestly the Volt doesn't look to bad, I'd buy one if I had the money. It looks better then it used to.
http://www.greencars.za.net/uploads/Production_Volt.jpg




-CollinstheClown

[billygoat333]

ooo that is a sexy car. :)

[Omega]

When will people understand that electric cars get infinite miles per gallon?

It's miles per amp or whatever electricity-based unit that they should be talking about.

[Zephik]

Okay, I finally figured it out I think.

So the Chevy Volt gets 230mpg... but it only goes 40 miles per charge, so how can this be? Here it is; It's all about the cost. So cost wise, its LIKE getting 230mpg. It's not 230mpg per charge, its only 40 miles per charge, but cost wise its like getting 230mpg. That's still pretty damn awesome. I'd love to go 230 miles for the same price of one gallon of gas. Granted, you have to recharge it every 40 miles, but I don't even go more than 20 a day so... and it does have the gasoline generator which kicks in once the car hits below 30% charge I believe. So technically, as long as gas stations aren't too far away, you could go forever without having to plug it in.

Anyways, this means that the Model S is the better car, because it gets 160 miles per charge minimum while costing the same to "fill it up". So for $10k more, you get a much better car that's also much better looking too! Too bad it doesn't have that generator, that would be super nice.

[aintnothang]

I saw a tesla in real life.

[d_stilgar]

The 230 mpg is based on what they estimate to be normal daily driving. They ask, how many miles more than 40 is the average person going to drive every day? If I were to drive 1/100th of a mile off the gas generator a day, then charge back up, my gas mileage would be in the 1000s. After the first 40 miles the car gets about 50 mpg. Why can't they just say that?

[Oneslowz28]

Its converted to something average people will understand Omega. If we said the volt got 230 miles per amp or something then people would be like....um whats that mean. So they convert the terms to something people understand. It is necessary for them to be able to sell these cars.

I would buy one if they were around 30K. You have to remember though. Despite what the digg link said, GM figured that 230mpg estimate with an off peak kw/h charge of $.08. The average for the US is $.11 per kw/h so the number might be slightly lower. Still if you live in an area where you can get to most places and back in 40 miles then its an awesome $$$$$$ saver because you will never have to use the gas engine. If you like in an area like me where its 15 miles here and 30 there then you would still save lots of $$ but not get the maximum out of the car.

The thing about non gas engine electric cars is that they have a limited range. If you hop in a Tesla and head down Route 66 you will only make it so far with out having to find somewhere that will let you charge it. With cars like the volt you just switch to the gas engine and in an hour you can switch back over to the electric engine and keep on trucking. There will come a day when we can charge the electric cars constantly with solar panels and other methods like generators on the wheels but we are decades away from that technology. The biggest hindrance to electric cars today is the weight of the batteries. If they could reduce battery weight by 50% and keep or increase efficiency by 20% that would be awesome.

Either way I still love my gas guzzling car and diesel chugging truck.

I drive between 500 and 700 miles a week just around this area.

[d_stilgar]

There's an article about a guy who uses turbine engines to power generators that charge hi-cap capacitors in cars. He gets 100+ MPG on his hybrid conversions. That number is calculated for highway driving (like a 600 mile trip). The turbine engine (which runs on gas) charges the capacitors in a few minutes, so the generator is rarely running.

The technology to make these cars is here. We just need it on a EPA, safety rated, mass-producable scale and quality.

[aintnothang]

Fisker Karma:
http://www.ecoautoninja.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/07/fisker-karma.jpg

[Zephik]

For some reason I think that car is pretty ugly. People seem to like it though. Maybe I just have bad taste. lol

[x88x]

@Zephik: I don't remember the range on gas off the top of my head, but I think it was a few hundred miles. Once it switches on the gas generator, it apparently gets the equivalent of about 50 mpg(US), but that's only if it's continually running.

@Oneslowz28: It's not that it "switches to the gas engine" like a 'hybrid' car would. The Volt really isn't a hybrid in anywhere near the same sense of the word. All the gas engine does is charge the battery bank, so it's not even mechanically connected to the drivetrain at all. Because of this, it should get much better performance and much better "milage" than it would otherwise. On the one hand, the thing actually moving the car is always a beefy electric motor, so I imagine the acceleration figures for the final product are gonna be pretty impressive. On the other hand, since the gas engine is just acting a a generator, it can run at peak efficiency all the time, and can be significantly smaller (and thus burn less fuel) than it would have to be if it actually drove the car at any point.

IIRC, freight trains have operated on a similar model for a long time. They have a big diesel generator feeding a capacitor bank, which has a huge electric motor or two pulling off it. Because of the torque/rpm curve of electric motors, they are extremely well suited to this type of application, and honestly I'm more than a little surprised that no trucking companies have picked it up.

[Collinstheclown]

Fisker Karma:[awesome car]

How about my favorite electric, the Karma (http://karma.fiskerautomotive.com/). mmmmm

Honestly the Volt doesn't look to bad, I'd buy one if I had the money. It looks better then it used to.
[volt picture]
-CollinstheClown

:facepalm:




-CollinstheClown

[TheGreatSatan]

I'm looking to get a hybrid SUV probably next year.