ideas needed (cooling problem)

[dr.walrus]

okay, so, unfortunately no pictures, but here goes.

I have a PC with a radeon 4850 and two ati firemv 2250s. This will soon be three 2250s to give me 8 monitors.

The Case is an old Cooler Master ATCS - it's all aluminium and looks smart, two front fans, one rear, and a massive cooler on the processor (it an AMD Tri-core overclocked from 2.8 to 3.2 ghz)

Occasionally, after extended use, (unsurprisingly) i get graphics driver errors, all six screens flicker a few times, and I get a bluescreen and the PC shuts down.

Should I:
a) build a ducted housing and put a massive fan on the back bigger than the existing 80mm hole
b) put on a massive side fan
c) a + b
d) buy a new case

problem is with the side fan, I have a big power supply (550w, soon gonna be 800), and the power supply has more airflow than the rear fan, so if i push all that hot air up the case, i'll burn out my power supply. Also, with the graphics cards, the Radeon sucks air out the back of the case and the others direct it forward into the case....

Any ideas would be great

[Luke122]

Can you post a picture of the case as it is now?

Also, identify the locations, size, and direction of the fans on the case. Lets see if we can just clear up the airflow to help cool it better. :)

Also, what is the ambient temperature of the room?

[dr.walrus]

http://img9.imageshack.us/img9/4616/fansy.gif

no photos sorry but this is a fair representation

[dr.walrus]

ambient temperature of the room varies. it's summer, but I'm in the UK, so a maximum of 25 to 30 degrees C

Oh and noone suggest liquid cooling.

[SXRguyinMA]

I vote for liquid cooling lol

seriously though, I'd get an a/m cooler for the GPUs or maybe a ~250mm fan for the side of the case blowing in

[FuzzyPlushroom]

Giant fan blowing over the video cards, definitely. What does the PSU have for a fan? Can you upgrade the rear exhaust fan, too?

[Zephik]

What kind of fans are you using? They may not be powerful enough? Have you thought about after market coolers?

http://www.newegg.com/Store/SubCategory.aspx?SubCategory=576&name=VGA-Cooling

Aside from that, there is water cooling, but it seems like you don't want to go that route. Not that I blame you, that can get pretty expensive pretty fast. lol

You could always buy a new case too. I'm not sure how much of a difference that would make for most cases though. But say you bought something like the Antec Twelve Hundred, I'm pretty sure that would make a difference, but its pricey.

What about modding? Have you thought about adding more fans wherever you can? You could add fan(s) onto the side panel positioned over the graphics cards, or you could add a fan to the top of the case which would be smart since heat rises, so that would provide an outlet for that.

[dr.walrus]

PSU has bottom and rear fans so no problem there. Thing is, i already have too many fans blowing INTO the case and not enough blowing out. push all that hot air up the case, with the puny rear fan, it all goes up through the PSU, which is sucking up some seriously hot air already.

time for an antec nine hundred i reckon

[Luke122]

http://i128.photobucket.com/albums/p176/lukifer122/fansy1copy.gif

Is your side panel vented already, or have a fan?

I would try a duct to direct more air straight to the cards, and then have them dump out the side of the case either through a vent, or an exhaust fan.

Also, I'd replace the rear fan with a larger one if possible, or at least a higher CFM fan. You'll get some more noise from it, but it's still going to be quieter than GPU fans running full speed.

[SXRguyinMA]

you want more blowing in than out. positive air pressure is better than negative. :up:

[dr.walrus]

What kind of fans are you using? They may not be powerful enough? Have you thought about after market coolers?

http://www.newegg.com/Store/SubCategory.aspx?SubCategory=576&name=VGA-Cooling

Aside from that, there is water cooling, but it seems like you don't want to go that route. Not that I blame you, that can get pretty expensive pretty fast. lol

You could always buy a new case too. I'm not sure how much of a difference that would make for most cases though. But say you bought something like the Antec Twelve Hundred, I'm pretty sure that would make a difference, but its pricey.

What about modding? Have you thought about adding more fans wherever you can? You could add fan(s) onto the side panel positioned over the graphics cards, or you could add a fan to the top of the case which would be smart since heat rises, so that would provide an outlet for that.

The issue is caused by the graphics cards being in concurrent slots, there's only about 5mm of clearance inbetween them which there aren't any aftermarket (air) coolers that would fit. No space in the top for a fan, plus the airflow would be in the wrong direction.

Could build a custom extraction unit for the back, but total cost of all this work is like the cost of a second hand antec 900

[dr.walrus]

http://i128.photobucket.com/albums/p176/lukifer122/fansy1copy.gif


Ah, see, this is the problem. The two top GPUs pump towards the FRONT of the case...

[dr.walrus]

you want more blowing in than out. positive air pressure is better than negative. :up:

yes, unless you have nowhere for it to leave from. 1 x 80mm out and 2 x 80mm + 1 x 220mm in? More than 50% is gonna go through the PSU

[Luke122]

Ah, see, this is the problem. The two top GPUs pump towards the FRONT of the case...

Which way does the bottom one go?

Is there anything between the gpus and the front fans? If not, duct it the same way, but reverse the bottom front fan to push out.

[dr.walrus]

Which way does the bottom one go?

Is there anything between the gpus and the front fans? If not, duct it the same way, but reverse the bottom front fan to push out.

The bottom one pumps from bottom out the back of the case. It runs at about 55-60 degrees C on average.

There's two hard drives (soon going to become three, and one is a seagate velociraptor) so that's pretty much what the front ones are for.

And I'm not going to risk circular ducting. That's asking for trouble.

[Luke122]

Plus if the hdd's are there, then you are just going to cook them with heat from the gpus. Damn.

New case might be your best option then.

Do you need the power of those cards, or just the outputs to drive more monitors?

[dr.walrus]

Plus if the hdd's are there, then you are just going to cook them with heat from the gpus. Damn.

New case might be your best option then.

Do you need the power of those cards, or just the outputs to drive more monitors?

For this:

http://img34.imageshack.us/img34/1994/dsc000041t.jpg

Will post a thread about it soon. Two more monitors being added, currently a 22", 24" and 4 x custom 10" CRTs

[Luke122]

If you are just using the extra outputs for status screens, web browsing, and dont need acceleration, then USB video outputs might be an option. Then you can eliminate 2 of your gpu cards, and not only cut down on heat, but also power demands.

[dr.walrus]

lol yes but I'm on a student loan here. Cost me £40 for the GPUs to output to the four status screens, this thing is on a seriously tiny budget, so it's out of the question to replace them and pay £40 for EACH USB>VGA adapter.

If I had the money to throw at it I'd have ten LCDs and a liquid cooled case... Hence why I'd prefer to upgrade this thing, not buy a new one.

There's an Antec 900 for cheap on Ebay ending day after tomorrow, if the hammer falls for under £40 I'm having it (already have the third GPU on the way), else it's a 220mm fan in the side and take all the drive bay covers off the back to allow the hot air out!

[dr.walrus]

****, how about this:

reverse the CPU fan to point back to front. Reverse the rear fan pulling air in. Leave the front fans as they are. Put on a 200mm side fan pulling air out. Only problem there is the power supply.

Or:

just put on the massive side fan. Use ducting to outside window (seriously, i mean it).

[Luke122]

Ducting to the outside window might be a problem due to moisture.

What about reversing all the fans to blow out, and then adding the big side fan to blow in?

[dr.walrus]

Ducting to the outside window might be a problem due to moisture.

What about reversing all the fans to blow out, and then adding the big side fan to blow in?

WINNER

You just nailed it, thanks!

[Zephik]

Have you considered getting an air conditioner for your room? Even you personally could benefit from that. :p

[dr.walrus]

Have you considered getting an air conditioner for your room? Even you personally could benefit from that. :p

too expensive, especially considering We get about ten days a year of hot weather in the north of the uk

[dr.walrus]

If I can fit one in, I'm getting one of these:

http://www.aria.co.uk/Products/Components/Fans%2C+Heatsinks%2C+Coolers/Case+Fans/120mm+Case+Fans/220mm+Akasa+Blue+Case+Fan+?productId=30248

[Zephik]

http://inventgeek.com/Projects/IonCooler/Overview.aspx

325CFM at 0DBA! OH YEA! ...maybe a bit too expensive though. lol

[dr.walrus]

http://inventgeek.com/Projects/IonCooler/Overview.aspx

325CFM at 0DBA! OH YEA! ...maybe a bit too expensive though. lol

Well, yeah, considering my solution is less than £10

[Eclecticos]

You may need to replace the graphics card fans. Or add thermal paste.
If you haven't cleaned them out for any extended period of time. .
There could be a collection of dust that is preventing them from doing there job.

I would recommend installing a fan on the south bridge of the mobo.
You could also cut a hole in the side panel about the height of the graphics cards. .
and Install a 120mm fan on the side there. That keep it from crashing and BSOD.

[Eclecticos]

One 4.5” hole saw or Dremel is required to cut the hole for a 120mm fan.
You could use a Jigsaw, but that requires a little extra effort.

[dr.walrus]

You may need to replace the graphics card fans. Or add thermal paste.
If you haven't cleaned them out for any extended period of time. .
There could be a collection of dust that is preventing them from doing there job.

I would recommend installing a fan on the south bridge of the mobo.
You could also cut a hole in the side panel about the height of the graphics cards. .
and Install a 120mm fan on the side there. That keep it from crashing and BSOD.

All graphics cards were brand new 2 months ago, # 4 fitted today doesn't even have a fan.

And I know what's required to cut the hole in the side! No offence, but your replies have been quite patronising. My questions have basically been asking for ideas of how to get an extra ~100cfm of effective throughflow, not 'i'm a total idiot with a computer full of dust'.

[Zephik]

Actually, Eclecticos posts have been very helpful and I would suggest taking his advice.

I think the fans are probably fine, but if you could find a stronger set that might help. Adding or redoing the thermal paste is a good idea as well. Sometimes they don't even include thermal paste, they just slap on this aluminum sticker type deal and call it good. You may want to get some higher quality paste and redo it. Dust could also be a problem, so make sure everything is nice and clean. But from the sounds of it, you apparently already knew that. As for the 120mm on the side of the case, that is your best suggestion so far in this entire thread hands down. That alone may very well fix your problem. I suggest Yate Loon or Noctua as far as good 120mm fans go. Heck, if you really wanted to, you could add in multiple side panel fans which would be akin to the likes of a Cooler Master Stacker (http://img512.imageshack.us/img512/5679/csconv830kkn44074665.jpg).

I know its frustrating, but please refrain from letting it get the best of you. We're all trying to help here and we really don't have to if we don't want to. So show a bit of appreciation or just don't say anything. As far as everything else goes, we can't read your mind or envision the state of your setup or anything like that, especially without pictures. We aren't super heroes or psychics, we don't know what you know. I'd imagine that's why Eck posted what he did. Not to be patronizing, but simply because he doesn't know what you know. You can't blame him for that, can you? Also, its wise to be kind to the moderators. ;)

Best of luck, hope you figure this problem out.

[dr.walrus]

Not to be patronizing

Too late

[Eclecticos]

All graphics cards were brand new 2 months ago, # 4 fitted today doesn't even have a fan.

And I know what's required to cut the hole in the side! No offence, but your replies have been quite patronising. My questions have basically been asking for ideas of how to get an extra ~100cfm of effective throughflow, not 'i'm a total idiot with a computer full of dust'.

Just offering helpful advise. I apologize if you were offended.
Have a great day.

[nevermind1534]

Most people here, even very knowledgeable, do actually ask for suggestions on how to cut a hole in a computer case the first time around. Electios didn't mean to offend you in any way, shape, or form.

[dr.walrus]

never mind

if a mod could close this thread, it would be great.

how to shut down a thread (http://forums.freevirtualservers.com/showthread.php?t=2643)

[dr.walrus]

p.s. thanks for the rep

[NightrainSrt4]

I know it's been asked to close the thread, but I will try and help anyway.

Do you have a free pci slot at the top of the gpu? Usually there is a x1 or a blank there. You could add a pci slot fan there. They are a little noisy (not horribly) but can add a lot of airflow. If you have the free pci slots I'd add one at the top and one below your card stack. That might just get you the extra airflow you need.

Xoxide pci slot cooler $3.99 (http://www.xoxide.com/slotcooler.html)

They don't look like much, but they have helped me get that extra bit of airflow on cases that only have one 80mm fan on the back, or worse, no fans.

[dr.walrus]

I know it's been asked to close the thread, but I will try and help anyway.

Do you have a free pci slot at the top of the gpu? Usually there is a x1 or a blank there. You could add a pci slot fan there. They are a little noisy (not horribly) but can add a lot of airflow. If you have the free pci slots I'd add one at the top and one below your card stack. That might just get you the extra airflow you need.

Xoxide pci slot cooler $3.99 (http://www.xoxide.com/slotcooler.html)

They don't look like much, but they have helped me get that extra bit of airflow on cases that only have one 80mm fan on the back, or worse, no fans.

This is a great idea! Sadly you came up with it after I'd already thought of it (I've oredered two :p), but yeah, it means I can get some outward airflow going above and below the quad stack of GPUs.

For anyone who cares, the solution I'm going for is:

1) Add large side fan (70cfm)
2) Replace back fan with 30cfm fan
3) Add two 15cfm PCI slot fans

Still results in extra airflow through the PSU, but will make sure that fan is mounted in the correct place to make sure it's cool air going through

[SXRguyinMA]

I just added a 120mm fan to the side panel of my case, so far has made a 5-10 ºF drop in temps at idle and under load :up:

[slaveofconvention]

We get about ten days a year of hot weather in the north of the uk

Where you at? Might be in a position to help you out if you get sick of the excess noise - and I might even have an Antec 900 going spare in the next couple of months...

[dr.walrus]

Where you at? Might be in a position to help you out if you get sick of the excess noise - and I might even have an Antec 900 going spare in the next couple of months...

Ooh really? Am based inbetween Lancashire and Cheshire at the min (Bury and Chester). If you have a spare antec 900 going I'm sure we can make some sort of arrangement :)

[dr.walrus]

All sorted now, replaced all of the existing 80mm fans with new ones and added a 120mm to the side.

After this experience, would massively recommend Nexus fans, good flow rate and almost totally silent. Air cooling FTW!

[BuzzKillington]

http://img32.imageshack.us/img32/4616/fansy.gif

[1RealTruth]

One of my coworkers added a duct from his Home Air Conditioning and "Country Chrome" Duct Taped it to his case. Can you say "World of War Craft Addict" :o). Needles to say, he hasn't had any more heating problems.

Another thing, with all those fans and video cards, you might need a bigger power supply.