View Full Version : Little help with water-cooling plz :]
MrNintend0
11-04-2009, 02:46 PM
Hey guys, I'm practically new to the modding world, so I'm sorry if I don't know much. I'm going to try selling my current setup on ebay and build another setup using the new socket 1156 Core i7 (the one that's like 280 bucks) for a budget, but high(ish) performance pc. Anyways, I'm planning on putting a MAJOR water cooling system in it. I've decided on the Swiftech MCP655 for my pump, but I was thinking of using 2 or 3 of those in sync as to increase or help the head pressure and flow rate through the system... Do you guys think this is a good idea, I've seen it done before with the smaller Laing versions (can't remember what they're called, similar to swiftech MCP355). I can't tell you everything that's going into the system as to keep it a surprise and make a work log on this site as I'm building it. The parts would be:
2 or 3 X Swiftech MCP655 Pumps
2 X 4x120mm rads
2 X 1x120mm rads
4 X graphics card waterblocks
1 X CPU waterblock
1 X chipset waterblock
If you guys have any suggestions or ideas, please let me know :]
Well, first off, I would definitely recommend you go with the socket 1366 i7-920 instead of the s1156 i7-860. It's about the same price and specs, but you get triple-channel DDR3 support (s1156 only supports dual channel communication), so if you build the RAM out in sets of 3, you'll get a nice performance increase.
For the WC system, just one of those pumps will be plenty. If you really want to get more power, imo it would be a better idea to switch to a larger, AC pump, like the Eheims (http://www.dangerden.com/store/eheim_pumps/). You'll get more efficient performance, and tbh, you don't want the liquid to flow through too fast; if it's going too fast it won't transfer heat as well off the waterblocks. I would also highly recommend a reservoir in the loop right before the pump. This gives the liquid somewhere to stabilize the temperature, and makes it easier to fill the loop.
Also, I gotta say...since when is 4 GPUs a 'budget' system :D
OOC, why the additional two 1x120mm rads?
Any idea what the rest of the hardware is gonna be yet?
I'll be watching, should be interesting. If you run into any problems, there's a lot of helpful people on here, and a lot with way more WC experience than me. :P
mDust
11-04-2009, 03:54 PM
2 or 3 X Swiftech MCP655 Pumps
2 X 4x120mm rads
2 X 1x120mm rads
4 X graphics card waterblocks
1 X CPU waterblock
1 X chipset waterblock:think:
.
.
.
Are you putting a nuclear reactor in your computer? If so, this equipment would probably keep it cool, but it's extreme overkill for anything else. I doubt if you'd need more than the one MCP655, let alone 3... But if you're keeping your mod symmetrical or passive, then I can envision reasons for this.
MrNintend0
11-04-2009, 04:49 PM
Thanks for the fast replies guys :D
@ x88x
Thanks for your suggestion about RAM, but I'd like to stick with dual-channel because the performance gain to triple-channel is not worth the money in my opinion, but if I were building a mostly future-proof pc, then yes I'd go with it. And yeah 3 pumps does sound like overkill, I'm getting the adjustable versions of the MCP655 so I can adjust the flow rate if it's too high. BTW, I will only be using 3 of the 4 GPU waterblocks for actual GPUs, the other one is for something special I have in mind. Yeah, I was planning on a res, but I'm going to build one instead of overpaying for one that's pre-built; maybe a waterfall res or something... I've figured out most of the system as well, but until I get the case modded and built, I'll see what can actually fit in there... oh, and this is a "budget high-performance pc", basically a low-end power house... Oh, I forgot... the two 120mm rads... 1 will be for cooling the coolant 1 last time before it heads to the waterblocks. I'll place 1 in line after the pumps, the other 1 is again for the "special project"...
..woah!... I could have sworn that the last time I looked up the i7-920 it was about $100 less..damn, Intel finally caught on :evil:
oh, and this is a "budget high-performance pc"
oooh, ok. I read that as 'high-performance budget PC'. Specs make more sense now :P
Kayin
11-04-2009, 09:53 PM
Let me get home and start on this post. There's a LOT I have to say about this subject.
My setup is 1 4x120, 2 3x120, and 1 2x120. I know overkill.
MrNintend0
11-04-2009, 11:56 PM
Oh, one more question for you guys... in your opinion, where would the best place to mount a radiator be for the two 4X120mm rads? :think:
I'm finally starting on a design and should have the drawing(s) uploaded by tomorrow or the next day... if I've found or been suggested a good place to mount the rads... so far I've got one mounted on the inside towards the back, but I'm a little bit sketchy on the other... and sorry, but top-mount isn't an option for me as that's where I'm mounting the res and wouldn't have enough space for it in the case I'm using...
Oh and one more thing guys, the GPUs I'm going to be using will be EVGA nVidia GeForce 9800GTX+'s because of their good performance and lifetime warranties... you guys know of any full size waterblocks that would fit these? I know the DangerDen waterblock will not fit them...
mDust
11-05-2009, 03:04 AM
My setup is 1 4x120, 2 3x120, and 1 2x120. I know overkill. /gasp
... so far I've got one mounted on the inside towards the back, but I'm a little bit sketchy on the other...
How the hell did you get a 4x120 inside your case?? What case are you using? Anyway, I'd recommend not using hot case air to cool your rad and also not dumping rad heat into the case...it just defeats the point of water cooling.
EVGA nVidia GeForce 9800GTX+'s ... you guys know of any full size waterblocks that would fit these? I know the DangerDen waterblock will not fit them...
Are they not factory reference design? I hate when I buy something and it turns out the manufacturer changed something in a way that is not clearly beneficial but manages to F up my plans for said item.
Here are a bunch of water block manufacturers:
Choose a manufacturer and Ctrl+F + 9800 works miracles (http://www.performance-pcs.com/catalog/index.php?main_page=index&cPath=240&zenid=aefe8d486aa10239fad4f53d81f4e1b0)
I found a few there that might work for you...but they also might not depending on why the DangerDen block won't fit. They generally say 'fits reference design only' so be sure they fit before buying...I'd hate to be the guy that leads you to spend $400 on blocks you can't use.
...the other 1 is again for the "special project"... You have my full attention...:D
Oh, one more question for you guys... in your opinion, where would the best place to mount a radiator be for the two 4X120mm rads? :think:
Depends on what the internal layout is in the case you're using. Make/model and pics please :D
Oh and one more thing guys, the GPUs I'm going to be using will be EVGA nVidia GeForce 9800GTX+'s because of their good performance and lifetime warranties...
@ the lifetime warranties; make sure that they cover watercooling. Most manufacturers will not cover watercooling unless they put the waterblock on and sell it to you like that. EVGA and a couple other comanies do that for some models, but they're a lot more expensive than buying the card and block separately (probably because of the warranty).
MrNintend0
11-05-2009, 01:02 PM
Depends on what the internal layout is in the case you're using. Make/model and pics please :D
@ the lifetime warranties; make sure that they cover watercooling. Most manufacturers will not cover watercooling unless they put the waterblock on and sell it to you like that. EVGA and a couple other comanies do that for some models, but they're a lot more expensive than buying the card and block separately (probably because of the warranty).
Alright, the case I'm using is a full tower ATX server case, you know, the really tall ones... I've found a place for the rads, but it will take some time to mod though... as for the vid cards, EVGA allows the heatsink to be replaced by an aftermarket cooler without it voiding the warranty, the only thing it states is that if there are any signs of physical or burn damage, the warranty is void, nothing else :banana:
I'll try to get some pics uploaded of the case, right now the pics won't upload for some reason...:?
Kayin
11-05-2009, 01:09 PM
EVGA's warranty is pretty nice. Kinda like XFX's.
I'd dump the pair of 120x1s and replace it with a 120.2 or alternately just add the chipsets and CPU on one loop and all 4 VGA on the other. VGA cards can run far hotter without damage than CPUs, and a chipset will not adversely affect CPU temps, especially if the CPU is plumbed first.
Now, there is a way to run all this off one pump-get a TyphoonIII bayres and a single 655, turn it all the way up, and plumb both loops off it. Do some research on it, it's an amazing pump top/reservoir combo.
I have more stuff, but I'm setting up a review and time is a bit short. However, the real job only has me a few hours today, so it'll be all good.
Also-there is NO issue with water moving slower in a system unless there's not enough flow to hit the optimum for any individual block. faster water=more recirculation, slower=more heat shed in rad, net result is dead even.
MrNintend0
11-05-2009, 05:43 PM
Alright, with some help from the information kiosk here at TCBS, I finally found how to upload pics... here are the pics of the case I will be using:
http://img44.imageshack.us/img44/1395/fulltowerfronttype1.jpg (http://img44.imageshack.us/i/fulltowerfronttype1.jpg/)
By MrNintend0 (http://profile.imageshack.us/user/MrNintend0)
http://img696.imageshack.us/img696/3089/fulltowerreartype1.jpg (http://img696.imageshack.us/i/fulltowerreartype1.jpg/)
By MrNintend0 (http://profile.imageshack.us/user/MrNintend0)
http://img682.imageshack.us/img682/641/fulltowersidetype1h.jpg (http://img682.imageshack.us/i/fulltowersidetype1h.jpg/)
By MrNintend0 (http://profile.imageshack.us/user/MrNintend0)
They are rather... um what's the word?... boring... not to worry, I will be modding the heck out of them :D
Kayin
11-05-2009, 06:12 PM
I'm really looking forward to this. I did a HellSing case based on one of those.
O_o That looks almost exactly like one of my cases....if you put it in a rack.. Hahaha, somebody was lazy at their design studios :P
Looking at the case design, what I would do for the rads is pull out at least the top 5.25" bay section and lay them sideways. If you only want to pull out one, you could have one rad on each side with fans pulling air up through the middle, then out both sides.
I'm really looking forward to this. I did a HellSing case based on one of those.
8D I must see this...
/goes to check Kayin's thread history...
...where is it! It's not there! gah! noooo!
MrNintend0
11-06-2009, 12:15 AM
Looking at the case design, what I would do for the rads is pull out at least the top 5.25" bay section and lay them sideways. If you only want to pull out one, you could have one rad on each side with fans pulling air up through the middle, then out both sides.
Sounds interesting... I've thought of making a base for the case and installing the rads in that... still considering the thought... Your idea sounds pretty good as well, just wondering if it will hinder performance a bit because the air would pick up heat from the rest of the system as it passes through...
Hopefully I'll be done with this project before summer of next year...
..woah!... I could have sworn that the last time I looked up the i7-920 it was about $100 less..damn, Intel finally caught on
No, I'm not going with the i7 920, I'm going with the i7-860; the Lynnfield model, not the Bloomfield
Sounds interesting... I've thought of making a base for the case and installing the rads in that... still considering the thought... Your idea sounds pretty good as well, just wondering if it will hinder performance a bit because the air would pick up heat from the rest of the system as it passes through...
I think it would be fine since all the major heat sources would be covered by the water loop. That's how I have mine set up and I'm getting good temps...well, good for how little rad area I have...
No, I'm not going with the i7 920, I'm going with the i7-860; the Lynnfield model, not the Bloomfield
Yeah, I caught that; I had just been remembering the 920 and 860 being about the same price...and now the 920 is $100 more...seems like Intel finally realized that if they kept them priced the same, nobody would buy the 860 :P
MrNintend0
11-07-2009, 11:36 PM
Thanks for all the support guys, um I'm having trouble finding a good PSU though, think you could help? I've figured out that I'm going to run 3 nVidia 9800GTX+'s in SLI, 4 Western Digital Caviar Black hard drives, Intel Core i7-860 processor, 4 x 2GB of dual-channel ddr3 RAM (total of 8GB), a DVD-RW disc drive, and a MSI Motherboard... The reason why I'm asking is because I checked Newegg's Wattage Calculator and it said I needed at least a 971 Watt power supply, I'm just wondering if this is right or not... Any thoughts?:think:
BTW the cooling system (water pumps, fans, etc.) will be run off of a separate power supply, so no worries on that...:banana:
Kayin
11-08-2009, 01:10 AM
It's nowhere near right. For the record, I run my whole system (dual 4870x2s, PHII 720@4GHz, 8GB DDR3, all that awesome cooling) on a PC Power and Cooling 750 pretty comfortably.
Hmm, weird. I hadn't realized NewEgg's calculator was so far of.. *shakes head* I'm disappointed in you NewEgg :(
Try this one (http://extreme.outervision.com/PSUEngine) instead. In my experience it's been pretty accurate. They don't have an option for tri-SLI, but with dual-SLI, they 498W; by comparison with the same arrangement with one card, it looks like they allocate 85W per card, so figure add about 95W, to be safe. That brings you to 593, then it's usually recommended to add 20-30% for overhead and to account for capacitor aging. 30% comes to 770.9W, so a 750 should be fine.
Personally I recommend PC Power & Cooling if you can afford them. The Silencer 750 Quad (http://www.pcpower.com/power-supply/silencer-750-quad-black.html) would work well for your needs. Strangely, it appears that NewEgg doesn't stock very many PCP&C PSUs anymore...which is really odd. You can get it here at zipzoomfly (http://www.zipzoomfly.com/jsp/ProductDetail.jsp?ProductCode=10005611&prodlist=froogle) though (it also comes in red and blue if that matters).
My personal manufacturer preferences (based on personal experience, manufacturer testing and independent testing) are:
1) PC Power & Cooling
2) Corsair
3) OCZ
4) Antec or Kingwin
MrNintend0
11-08-2009, 08:01 PM
Thanks for the input, and thank you x88x for the other wattage calculator. I'm thinking of going with a Corsair 850HX for good measure...
That should do you fine; that's a nice PSU, and it's 80 PLUS SILVER certified, so it shouldn't draw any more power than a lower wattage PSU would.
mDust
11-09-2009, 02:33 PM
I checked Newegg's Wattage Calculator and it said I needed at least a 971 Watt power supply, I'm just wondering if this is right or not... Any thoughts?They may be over estimating so consumers spend more money on a higher wattage PSU, or they may be over estimating to keep people from purchasing a poor quality PSU with the exact wattage they need. PSU's will last longer and run more efficiently the less they are worked. So a 500W PSU won't last as long or be as efficient as a 750W if they both have a 450W load on them constantly. I personally have a 1000W Ultra X3 that has never seen more than 500W fully loaded. It's always stable, I trust it's as efficient as Ultra and reviewers claim, and it's backed by a lifetime warranty, so I expect it will last me a very long time. The only con was it's price: ~250 bucks when it was on sale 3 years ago.
MrNintend0
11-09-2009, 04:26 PM
Thanks for the input, I've been thinking about an Ultra X4, and it's an amazing power supply... but now I'm starting to consider going with a non-modular PSU... The reason why is so that the modular plugs will not wear out over time if I continue to use the same PSU (unlikely, but better safe than sorry), and also the modular plugs have about as much resistance in each "connection" as 2 feet of standard copper wire... I will need as much power as possible, so I'm considering a Silverstone OP1000... again, I'm considering it, so if there's anyone who thinks this isn't a good PSU, please tell me I'm trying to get the best out of my system...
I don't plan on buying anything until I have everything planned out so I'm completely positive that everything should work out... As of now I'm drawing a 1:4 (ish) scale of the computer... not a lot of details, just what I will be modding...
Kayin
11-10-2009, 12:25 PM
The resistance is actually less than that, and TBH it's not that much in two feet of wire, anyway. Having tested the X4, if you can top it you're throwing in stuff just to have it in there. After QuadFire and an OCed processor, you'd still need like 20+ HDDs to start taxing it. A pump or two isn't an issue, and neither is case fans. I'm running 4 pumps, 13 case fans on my rads and elsewhere (and all of those have LEDs) and two hard drives with no sweat on the 750. Go read jonnyguru.com and see what they say. I go there when I need help in a review. Seriously.
SXRguyinMA
11-10-2009, 11:09 PM
I've got an 800-Watt Ultra X3, and its running 3 x 120mm fans, mem cooler, water pump, cold cathodes etc and its been flawless for the past couple years :up:
I accept your 800W Ultra, and raise you a 500W PC Power & Cooling running:
C2Q9450
GTX260
watercooling pump
2x 120mm fans
2xSSDs
:D :P I haven't gotten around to buying a kill-a-watt yet; I really want to find out how much power I'm actually pulling.
MrNintend0
11-11-2009, 07:48 PM
Now I'm thinking of going with an Ultra X4 1050 Watt for the main system and a Ultra X4 Micro-ATX 400 Watt for the cooling system and extras that I may add later... I was thinking of going with a PC Power & Cooling, but those things are so dang hard to find...
:eek: O_O holycrapthatisalotofpower! Any particular reason for the separate PSU just for the pump(s)/fans? I guarantee you, two pumps and a zillion fans won't pull more than ~50W (ok, so some pumps might, but not the ones you picked).
For the PCP&C PSUs, what model are you looking for? NewEgg doesn't have many anymore, but I know at least ZipZoomFly (http://www.zipzoomfly.com/jsp/Home.jsp) has a really nice selection, and everyone I know who has bought from them has had good experiences with them. ..unless you're not in the US..then I can see finding them maybe being a problem.
Kayin
11-11-2009, 08:54 PM
My sample tested to 1200W, bro. If you're feeling leery still, I can fire it up and put it on the scope tonight...
Or you could get the PC Power & Cooling Turbo-Cool 1200, which they rate to a max constant level of 1200W, with a peak level of 1400W :P
http://www.pcpower.com/power-supply/turbo-cool-1200.html
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817703012
If you need more power than that, you're doing something very wrong....or very right :twisted:
mDust
11-12-2009, 01:36 PM
Nobody needs more than 1000W in any PC. Try hitting 1000W on any of the wattage calculators using realistic hardware configurations and I'll bet you can't even do it. (I hit over 7.4kw by maxing out every setting...so that's why I added the 'realistic hardware config'.) That's the point. If you can't get anywhere near 1000W, that means your PSU is operating around 30-60% of rated output at max load, which translates into efficiency, stability, and longevity.
MrNintend0
11-12-2009, 02:31 PM
Thanks, and yeah I know 1050 watts sounds a bit much for what I'm going to be using it for, but it gives me a little leeway for some more upgrading in the future. :freakedout:
Also when I used the wattage calculator that x88x sent me to, it said I would need at least 883 watts of power. It may be doing that for safety, but still the safer the better... Besides with Ultra's lifetime warranty I'm practically set for life :D
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