Something different...

[xmastree]

I have an old ATX desktop case. It weighs a ton, made back in the days when they made them out of real metal, not the wafer thin ones we get now.
Anyway, it looks like crap, but that's the attraction. 8)
I'm pretty sure a modern motherboard will drop right in. It has two 5.25" bays (three atually, but one has no front panel opening), that's enough.

I'm tempted to put something fast in there, but I'm concerned about cooling. The only fan is the PSU one and there's no obvious location for an additional case fan.

Suggestions?

Apologies for the quick & dirty web page... :rolleyes:
http://geocities.com/xmastree_ph/case/

[Cevinzol]

I can see 4 places but none are easy.
1) Use one of the 5.25" bays. Insert a pre-made assembly for Cooling HDDs. Something like this: Hard Drive cooler - sidwinder.com (http://www.sidewindercomputers.com/blcf3hadrco.html)
It would be easiest.

2) there is space over the sockets in back (between the P/S and the expansion slots) there might be room for a couple small fans.

3) I would at least put a hole in the top (over the future CPU's location) even if I didn't add a fan there.

4) Put a fan on the right side behind the P/S

The last 2 options are harder because your case cover is a 3-sided wrap arround case. So wiring becomes a challenge. Good luck.

[xmastree]

Thanks for the suggestions. I have plans for both 5.25 bays, so that disk cooler, nice though it is, won't be an option. :-(

Wiring wouldn't be too difficult, I would mount the fans on the chassis and cut holes in the cover to line up with them.
Hmm... intake behind the power switch, exhaust next to the power supply. That sounds like it would work well.

However, looking at those three 1.5" fans on that cooler, I'm imagining them on the back, above the connectors.

There's almost room for two 3" fans there, it'd look rough but a) it's the back so no big deal, and b) It's supposed to look like a pile of crap anyway! :-)

[xmastree]

Ok, well I've built it.
The good news, despite the case having just six mountings rather than the plethora of options on a modern case, my Asus A7V8x-X lined up perfectly. :)

The not so good news, I think I need more airflow. the CPU is running at 67C just now, but it drops to below 60 if I lift the cover.

I mounted one PSU fan blowing out through the unused slots at the back.

http://i50.photobucket.com/albums/f341/chrispollard/built.jpg

It's extracting ok, but the air coming out is cool compared to that coming from the PSU. So, it would appear to be drawing air in somewhere and sucking it out before it's passed over the important bit, the CPU.

With that in mind, I'm planning to fit maybe 3 small fans, as originally discussed. They would be nearer the CPU, and blowing inwards should provide a supply of cool air for the CPU fan. The case is noticably warmer just above the CPU.

An easier option might be to simply mount an internal fan to stir things up a little in there. I have some spare fans from dead PSUs. If I could get some fresher air over the CPU it might help. Currently the video card divides the case in two, so the CPU is in a small box, bounded by the PSU, VGA, CD and back panel.

[Cevinzol]

Can you have a blow hole cut in the case above the CPU?

[dgrmkrp]

U probably thought of this, but why dont you rebuild the back side and use 2x80mm fans back there? By rebuilding i mean cut the area where the fans would be up to the top-most u can, straigthen the metal with a hammer, bend a bit back 90 degrees (u'll know how much, depending how much of the "straight" piece extends pass the case backwall), cut the holes for the fans, bondo the surrounding to make it look as new.. then primer over it and paint it :) or not.. if u want it to look like crap :)

I would also go with the top fan intake, maybe with a duct... it will help a lot.. cool air goes in tru the duct, hot air gets out tru the back fans :)

Oh, another Q: do you use the floppy drive? you could remake that rack to hold one or more hdd with a cooler in front :) plus, the faceplate is plastic... so any hole can be made, remade with bondo etc... or if u go with a 5,25 hdd cooler pack.. bye bye 3,5 rack :) or whateveer u wish.. possibilities are endless... any case can be remade :)

[onelegout]

Can you have a blow hole cut in the case above the CPU?
This is a good idea, but not a blow hole....more of a suck hole...
That sounded kinky. :D

[dgrmkrp]

=))

[xmastree]

Ok, nice feedback. Firstly, I melted one hole saw and two grinding wheels trying to cut one hole in that area above the conenctors. Damn, this case is made from heavy duty steel! (Edit: i just measured it, it's 1mm thick!) I fitted one fan, blowing in, rebuilt it and the CPU runs 5 degrees cooler. :)
I put it outside to hide the mess made by my atempts to cut a neat hole ;)

http://i50.photobucket.com/albums/f341/chrispollard/infan.jpg

I tried a stirrer inside, but it made minimal difference.
Yes, I'm using the floppy drive, and both 5.25. bays.
Holes in the top? Not really an option. Nice as it would be to fit a window in there, this thing is going to be a working machine and there's gonna be a huge printer sitting on top of it.

Another couple of hacks. In the first pic (http://geocities.com/xmastree_ph/case/) you'll see at the botton left there's a lock to stop the case from being opened. I don't have the key for that, and there's no reset button on the case. So that location now holds the reset button. 8)
It's lacking a front USB connector. Bearing in mind that the front panel comes off with the cover, I don't want to attach anything to it so I had to scratch my head a little. I could mount something on the chassis and cut a hole in the front to line up with it, but then I had a better idea. I have a hard disk caddy, and there was just enough space above the LEDs for a usb extension cable. stuck in with epoxy. :)

http://i50.photobucket.com/albums/f341/chrispollard/usb.jpg

(a word of warning about that, from previous experience. If you are doing similar, keep the epoxy away from the metal part of the socket, otherwise it will seep through the holes making it impossible to insert a plug once it's set :rolleyes: )

Other than that, the only concession to modern day bling is the blue power LED. I couldn't resist it...

[xmastree]

On a related note, the kid next door asked me if I could take a look at a computer for him so naturally I agreed. After all, my driveway needed sweeping. :)
So, he brought round this huge desktop box. I didn't look at the front, but spun it round to see the back. There was a very big hole where the power supply used to be. I opened it up...

OMG, a memory expansion card! Haven't seen one of those since... way back.
Found the CPU, a 386/25. :rolleyes:

Anyway, the casing has four 5.25" bays onthe front, two with floppies and one with a hard brick, I mean hard disk.

The case was in remarkable condition, and it would make a beautiful retro-box. Here's a pic of what it was like:
http://www.cse.uta.edu/TheMuseum@CSE/images/CompaqDeskpro386_25-1.jpg

Think of the potential there...

[jdbnsn]

Remember anytime you are cutting thicker metal, lay down a line of lubricating oil on the line you plan to cut and it will greatly reduce damage to your tools. I learned this the hard way, and it does make a difference.

[xmastree]

Yeah, I really ought to know that, having worked in a machine shop many years ago. I think it's down to cheap tools though. A cheap and nasty set of hole saws I bought for about $5. Initially bought (and used effectively) for making holes in plastic drums.
I know it's bad form, blaming the tools...

[xmastree]

Here it is, up and running. Makes a good footrest for now...
http://i50.photobucket.com/albums/f341/chrispollard/retro.jpg
For the record, inside is an Athlon 2400+, 512MB, 80GB, Asus A7V8X-X, 300W PSU. And a blue LED. :)
the only problem is I'm missing the floppy eject button. :(
That CDROM is an old one I put in there to fill the hole. It will get a DVD/CDRW combo eventually. How cool would it be if I could use that 12x front panel on it?

[xmastree]

Hmm...
If you go back to post #10 (http://www.thebestcasescenario.com/forum/showpost.php?p=23589&postcount=10) and read the bit about my neighbour's 386.

I seem to have acquired it. (http://www.geocities.com/xmastree_ph/386)

It'll take a little more work to do something with it, since the back panel isn't ATX unlike the one I just did.

[DaveW]

It would make a sweet mod though! Specially when people come around to catch you playing FEAR on what looks like a 20 year old computer. Just tell them you over clocked it mega-style ;)

-Dave

[xmastree]

It would make a sweet mod though!Notice there seems to be no power switch? I presume it was on the back of the PSU, which is missing. I'll bet I could do something with that 5.25 floppy's door handle...
Or maybe the ignigion key would be the way to go.
Keyboard connector on the front? I would have to keep that. Shouldn't be too difficult to wire up an extension, cut from an old AT mobo and mount it there.

I'm now looking at my computer desk. There's a shelf at foot level, with not much on it. This would be much nicer without that stickyout thing on one side holding my current setup.

Hmmmm...

[Canada's Own Falcon]

if you're still worried about cooling (I Noticed you don't have any intake fans) try adding one just behind where your power switch mount is. This will serve 2 purposes. First, it will help cool your HDD (Which I'm assuming is mounted below the floppy drive) and second it will provide a decent airstream over the whole Mobo.

[xmastree]

It seems to be ok now. There is one intake fan, that small one on the back near the CPU.

[DaveW]

Holy crapolla...a whole 4 MB of memory?

1988..so we can do a quick confirmation of moore's law then, which says that raw processing power doubles every 18 months.

so....
16MB in 1991...
64MB in 1994...
256MB in 1997...
1024MB in 2000...
Which is probably today's average. But somewhere in there you gotta factor in the move to DDR ram, higher speeds, dual channel memory mode...not to mention the fact that memory was held back by 32 bit CPU's...i'd say that Moore's law is actually pretty darn accurate. Appart from saying we should all have 16,384MB (or ~16GB) of RAM right now. Wouldn't that be sweet :D

I gotta see this mod finished man.

-Dave

[xmastree]

I gotta see this mod finished man.
Damn, I haven't even started it yet, too busy with the ATX desktop.

Here's the reason I can't put any vents in the top:

http://i50.photobucket.com/albums/f341/chrispollard/printerontop.jpg

Although I do like Canada's Own Falcon's idea of an intake on the left side, behind the power switch. There are some vents along both sides, but just thin slots. It wouldn't take much to join some together to form a square.
I would mount the fan itself on the chassis, to ease on wiring and make the cover still easy to remove.

Yep, I think I'll do that.

[xmastree]

Yep, I think I'll do that.Well, that's the easy part done.

http://i50.photobucket.com/albums/f341/chrispollard/sidefan.jpg

Next is to cut a hole in the side and fit a grille. I saw one in the local computer shop, slightly expensive, but it's flat rather than made from wire. That means I don't need to be too perfect cutting the hole, as the grille will hide any rough edges. That must be worth the extra cost...
It won't line up exactly, since the case clips onto those hooks on the bottom, but it will be close enough.

Regarding the other one, the 386, I took it apart a little today. Damn, that thing is built like a tank (14kg without disks and psu). Funny thing is, when I removed the disk tray, I found a picture of a 'vette (http://i50.photobucket.com/albums/f341/chrispollard/vette.jpg) on the motherboard.



Bizarre.

[DaveW]

Regarding the other one, the 386, I took it apart a little today. Damn, that thing is built like a tank (14kg without disks and psu). Funny thing is, when I removed the disk tray, I found a picture of a 'vette on the motherboard.



Bizarre.

Not as bizzarre as you might think-people have been putting custom etchings onto chips for years. Nw the chips are so small that you can only see them under a microscope, and a whole cartload of people got fired when they found mickey mouse and so forth engraved onto their chips.

Check out this link. (http://www.engadget.com/2005/10/13/silicon-art-on-a-microchip/)

This has been going on for years. There's a whole ton off them; i guess in your case the chip wasn't small enough for it to go unnoticed!

-Dave

[xmastree]

I've heard of the hidden art on chips before.
It's not on a chip, it's part of the silk screen overlay on the motherboard. About 1" wide. And it's hardly hidden, it's right next to the revision label sticker. :)

Anyway, back to my cooling problem. I've realised that an external fan on the back is a bad idea, since you tend to grope around there feeling for cables...

Also, with my intake behind the power switch, I can't help thinking that most of what that pulls in will be exhausted by my 'over the slot' fan at the back. Which still leaves the CPU in stale air.

With that in mind, I'm planning to move the rear fan to the right side, next to the PSU, like I suggested in post #3.
That should give a nice crossflow of air, and give the CPU cooler something better to work with.

[XcOM]

i currently have the best setup at the moment for my server (n the process of doing a wite up on it)

its in a desk, with a HUGE 120 fan over the HDD's and a 1.3GHz P3 fan on a P3 650

[xmastree]

120mm fan? Hmm... I think a couple of 80s will be enough. the problem with 120mm ones is that they only seem to be available in 220V, which would be ok but there's no 220V outside of the power supply.
Although I could use a relay to switch them, driven from the chassis fan header on the motherboard.

Also, I had another idea for something to include. I have a bluetooth adaptor which I never use. The front panel usb uses one channel of the onboard header, I think I'll connect another extension cable to the other channel on the header and fit this bluetooth behind the plastic front panel. 8)

http://i50.photobucket.com/albums/f341/chrispollard/blue.jpg

Edit: Did it. Next step I guess will be to fit a window in the computer case so the light shines through. I took the cover off to get more light from it. 8)

Edit 2: Well, I found a suitable plastic window. The good news, it's elliptical so it will match the other lights. The bad news, it's elliptical so it will be more difficult to make the hole...

[Canada's Own Falcon]

With that in mind, I'm planning to move the rear fan to the right side, next to the PSU, like I suggested in post #3.
That should give a nice crossflow of air, and give the CPU cooler something better to work with.

Fans on the rear of the case should always vent outward (or, inward if that's the direction your psu vents) and vents on side/front should always vent in. If you have a vent on the top, have it vent the same way as the psu if it has vents on the front (The side closest to the Optical drives) or have it vent in if the only psu intake is on the bottom. (this gives crossflow over the RAM.) The top vent isn't always needed in a horizontal case, usually it just kills air behind the optical drives.

[xmastree]

Well, I have it venting in behing the power switch, and out through the PSU and the right side, between the PSU and the CD drive (that was before I read the above...). Presumably it will be drawing in somewhere else too.

Once I refit the cover, I'll see how it runs.

The exhaust half done
http://i50.photobucket.com/albums/f341/chrispollard/holes.jpg

The intake, finished.
http://i50.photobucket.com/albums/f341/chrispollard/grille.jpg

I was about to buy the biohazard ones, until I noticed that they're not finger-proof. So I got spiderman instead.

Those screws came from an old PSU, the ones which hold the cover on. I had to cut off the two nearest the front as they fouled on the chassis when I tried to fit the cover.


Edit: So, after running for a few hours, including a lot of google Earthing, it's sitting at 51 deg C, compared with the 67 originally. That'll do nicely. :)
Also, the air from the side exhaust feels warmer than it was when coming out through the rear slots. But that's very subjective.

Damn, this thing's about finished...

[XcOM]

thats quite impressive, but personally 50 is still tooooooo hot for me, i won't settle for anything over 45 under load, my machine runs at 36 under load (Adv)

[DaveW]

Nice looking job on the fan! Finishes up pretty well.

-Dave

[xmastree]

Nice looking job on the fan! Finishes up pretty wellUntil you look at it from the inside... :rolleyes:
That's why I chose those rather than this kind:
http://www.so-trickcomputers.com/Merchant2/graphics/00000001/gold_grill_80_lg.jpg
Since that would need me to be much neater with my cutting. ;)

The stealth bluetooth is in, with its window. It's not so bright though. I suspect the window is too far from the light source to effectively transmit the light.

I need some kind of clear plastic rod, or to mount the bluetooth nearer to the front.

OTOH, I need to put this into service, so I'll probably just leave it as it is. :rolleyes:

Edit: Or, mount a normal LED in place of the surface mount one, arranged so that it's just behind the window. Great idea, until you're a bit careless aligning it and rip off one of the pads it was soldered to...
:eek:
So, with the aid of a magnifying glass, I was able to find the teeny weeny track connecting to the damaged pad, and solder some very thin wire to it. Then I soldered the good leg back on to the good pad and buried the whole thing in epoxy, for strength. There's some free play in the thin wire, so once it's set I can adjust it by bending the good leg without breaking the delicate one.

Am I ok? :rolleyes:

I can't resist an opportunity to try some extreme closeup photography, so:

http://i50.photobucket.com/albums/f341/chrispollard/led1.jpg

http://i50.photobucket.com/albums/f341/chrispollard/led2.jpg

And finally, the bluetooth lens (small one on the right). Nice and bright now. 8)

http://i50.photobucket.com/albums/f341/chrispollard/blueled.jpg

[legoman786]

wow...

[DaveW]

Hmm...not bad! Can i be honest with you though? The old, OLD case looks cool. I don't know if this case is old enough to look good yet-it might look a bit better with a lick of black paint or something?

Unless you were to 'retro up' the case somehow, make it look a little older...

Just my opinion, if you like it the way it is, then keep it. At first i liked the idea, but seeing it come together with the alien vent and so forth...not so sure that it's going to turn out looking the way i imagined it.

-Dave

[xmastree]

Unless you were to 'retro up' the case somehow, make it look a little older...
Well, I think I better stop now, since this needs to be put into service as a server pretty soon. With that printer on top. The main reason for using that case was space. The printer is pretty big, and a tower next to it takes up too much space. This way, the computer doesn't take any space as it's the same size as the printer and sits neatly below it.

The alien (or is it spiderman?) vent was just to hide my rough edge. this thing is functional rather than artistic. Although I just had a thought, if that is an alien, this Athlon CPU is definately alien to the case... :rolleyes:

That bluetooth adaptor turned out a bit of a mess. The LED was held ok with epoxy, but that thin wire was just soooo delicate that I ended up encasing both the leads in more epoxy contained in a rubber sleeve (taken from an old ball point pen). It's strong enough now, and bright as hell, but I'm glad it's hidden from view. :rolleyes:

http://i50.photobucket.com/albums/f341/chrispollard/bluemess.jpg

As for the 386, well there's no pressing need for that so I can take my time with it.

[xmastree]

wow...
:D

Wow, to the whole thing? Or one specific bit?

[legoman786]

the whole thing man, the whole thing

[xmastree]

8)

http://i50.photobucket.com/albums/f341/chrispollard/insideview.jpg

It turned out surprisingly tidy inside, don't you think? Helped by the fact that all the mobo connectors are hidden under the drives. In this pic you can see the extra fans, in on the left, out on the right. One hard disk above the floppy, one below it. Cooled by the intake fan.
You can also see the delicate bluetooth LED before I epoxied it.

And, in case you're wondering, yes. The motherboard is touching the back of the CD mounting cage.

[xmastree]

Something occurred to me. The previous motherboard which was in this case died under mysterious circumstances. I've no idea why it failed, but when I opened the case up the board was contaminated with some unknown substance (http://i50.photobucket.com/albums/f341/chrispollard/dirty.jpg). There's a chance it might be sh*t from some beasties which managed to get inside. I'm not sure if that's what caused the boards to fail, but I'm not taking any chances with this one.

http://i50.photobucket.com/albums/f341/chrispollard/mesh1.jpg

http://i50.photobucket.com/albums/f341/chrispollard/mesh2.jpg

Ain't no critters crapping in this computer.

[onelegout]

that stuff looks weird! Dude I REALY would like to see this painted black, it would fit SO well with the blue lights and the chrome grill and the mesh!
Not too sure about the whole printer thing though, but we'll see how it turns out ;)
Good stuff though!
Peace
H

[xmastree]

that stuff looks weird!Yep. It's more than just dust. Dust tends to be light brown and collects around the cpu. This has moisture in it.

Dude I REALY would like to see this painted black
Well, as I've said before, it has to be functional rather than beautiful. Function before form. Those grills for example, the biohazard ones looked nicer, but weren't fingerproof. It's not really going to be seen once it's installed anyway, only the front panel. Black would be nice, but I'll save that for the 386 project. :)