Watercooling questions

[diluzio91]

So, now, as i have been having far, far too much time to think about my summer project, im starting to lean towards watercooling it. Now, i have never done any watercooling, and know nothing about it, so im coming to the experts. I read all the how to guides online, but i want some answers that are kind of opinion based. I need to know, who makes a good pump that will last, but is inexpensive, same for water blocks (for am3 cpu, 5770 gpu), rads (the idea i have in my head is to use 2 seprate rads that are 120 mm each, so 1 on top one on bottom mounted in the 5.25 bays, and one on the bottom by the 120 mm fan, if i do that do i need 2 pumps? i want to have 1 res, that i will be custom making so it fits under the top panel of my case, how do i stop the rez from leaking, just silicone caulk? do i have to shut down every night? here is a pic of what im thinking of,

Blue Rect = res
Red Circles = heat sinks, gpu and cpu
Green rect = pump
Black rect = rad (there will be a dvd drive between the 2 rads)
red line is hot, blue is cool
:D

http://i838.photobucket.com/albums/zz302/diluzio91/Untitled-1.png

thanks a billion tbcs!

[Starlite KNight]

You don't need 2 pumps for 2 rads but you can set two up in series with one of the many double pump tops available on the market. You can have them set up in series. What case do you have? You might be able to mod the case and have the rads up on top or on the sides. I plan on having mine externally mounted, one computer behind utilizing the fan mount on the back of the case and another computer top mounted.

Liang makes the pumps that are rebranded as Swiftech, Danger Den, whatever. Liang D5=MCP655, D4=MCP650, etc. Other popular pumps used are Iwaki and Eheim.

For res: http://www.thebestcasescenario.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1026, http://www.overclockers.com/forums/showthread.php?t=418723 and Cyberdruid uses (http://www.overclock.net/cyberdruidpc/549143-cyberdruid-makes-reservoirs-4.html#post7068626) TAP Acrylic Cement (http://www.tapplastics.com/shop/product.php?pid=130&).

Res>pump so pump doesn't run dry, then you can string together everything in one loop. Rads can go after all the blocks or after CPU and then again after GPU but that would add more tubing. The temperature in the loop won't be more than a couple degrees anywhere so you have the rads after one another with their barbs on the bottom of the top one and the top of the bottom one if you plan on utilizing them that way.

[mDust]

Disclaimer: I'm not an expert.

if i do that do i need 2 pumps?If you run the cooling system in parallel like you've drawn you will need two pumps. Or, with a Y-connector before and another after the pump, you could use one strong pump...however I don't recommend that. In fact, unless you've designed it in parallel for aesthetic reasons, make a series loop: res>cpu>gpu>pump>rad1>rad2>res. The gpu in a series loop should come after the cpu because the gpu is more tolerant to heat than a cpu.

just silicone caulk?No, but silicone rated for indefinite water submersion will work. What is the res to be made of? If it's acrylic, weldon #3 or #4 will make a very strong, water tight seam. And test the entire loop before putting it into the computer...a single drop of water can be enough to destroy hundreds of dollars of hardware. I have a pile of graphics cards that can attest to that. And on a similar note, compression fittings are win...try to avoid barbs.

do i have to shut down every night?No.

I can't really recommend hardware as I've not used enough to make any useful comparisons.

[diluzio91]

So you think this setup would work better?

http://i838.photobucket.com/albums/zz302/diluzio91/newer.png

the reason i looked into parallel lines is because i thought it would run cooler because i plan on having the res being pretty large, and i thought that gravity would do most of the work in carrying the flow. The double rad is just because i think it will look nice the way im going to use it, the case is a coolermaster 690, so in my mind it looks something like this

http://i838.photobucket.com/albums/zz302/diluzio91/casewithplans.png

the res will be acryllic, and it will be dropped into the a hole in the top so you can see the bottom hanging down. it will be frosted, like everything else in the case ( there will be a plate over the bottom where the PSU is so you cant see it... i think the end result will be pretty stunning... i have also been toying with making my own blocks for the computer.

[Starlite KNight]

Having a parallel loop wouldn't necessarily be cooler. The temps will even out through the loop with the water from the hotter loop transferring to the cooler loop. You also wouldn't have equal flow.

Easy frosting tip. (http://www.overclock.net/case-mods-general-discussion/344048-iced-computer-window.html) You can try res>pump if you have room in the drive bays to put the pump but the way you have it drawn out now looks better than the first attempt. Alternatively, you can have a rad rear mounted where the current fan is.

[diluzio91]

thinking of these parts

pump
http://www.frozencpu.com/products/9480/ex-pmp-83/OCZ_Hydro_Pulse_Water_Pump_800_-_800_Lhr.html?tl=g30c107s154

rads
http://www.frozencpu.com/products/4082/ex-rad-82/Black_Ice_GT_Stealth_120_X-Flow_Radiator_-_Black.html?tl=g30c95s159

fittings
either

http://www.frozencpu.com/products/10035/ex-tub-604/Bitspower_Ultimate_G_14_Thread_38_ID_x_58_OD_Compr ession_Fitting_-_Matte_Black_BP-MBCPF-CC3.html?tl=g30c409s1032

or

http://www.frozencpu.com/products/8225/ex-tub-431/Feser_Compression_Fitting_-_G_14_Thread_38_ID_x_58_OD.html?tl=g30c409s1032

ooor if my budget does not want to cooperate

http://www.frozencpu.com/products/9307/ex-tub-491/Primochill_Ghost_Compression_Fittings_-_38ID_x_58OD_-_Polycarbonate_-_Black_F-C358-BK_.html?tl=g30c409s1032

[diluzio91]

Having a parallel loop wouldn't necessarily be cooler. The temps will even out through the loop with the water from the hotter loop transferring to the cooler loop. You also wouldn't have equal flow.

Easy frosting tip. (http://www.overclock.net/case-mods-general-discussion/344048-iced-computer-window.html) You can try res>pump if you have room in the drive bays to put the pump but the way you have it drawn out now looks better than the first attempt. Alternatively, you can have a rad rear mounted where the current fan is.

the rear panel will be used for some........ hidden lighting.... :twisted:

[Starlite KNight]

Everything looks good to me. Get the fittings that aren't out of stock. :up:

[diluzio91]

Everything looks good to me. Get the fittings that aren't out of stock. :up:

lol... when budget allows this i hope they will be in stock... but i will probably go with one of the black fittings, just because it should look nicer... im thinking ahead of my budget at the moment... Looking at some of the blocks for AM2/3 on egg i might have to go with a premade... for sanity's sake

[Starlite KNight]

Don't forget fans for those rads, tubing and coolant. :)

[mDust]

Best coolant in the world?: distilled water from your local grocery store. But make sure it is 100% steam distilled and not filtered water. Then just add a biocide to that, or drop a piece of silver in the res.
And yes, that series loop you drew up looks like it will work better.
I'd recommend the weldon #3 or #4 for your acrylic res. It's made specifically for welding acrylic to acrylic. If you can't get it locally, TAP plastics sells it online cheaper than anyone else as far as I could see. UPS should be delivering mine later today.

Other thoughts:
The rad fans will be exhausting out the front right? It doesn't make sense to dump the combined CPU/GPU heat onto your HDDs and the rest of your hardware.
A series loop will probably work better with small rads because a single 120 rad may not be able to handle your GPU while it's gaming.
If the pump is after the blocks, make sure there is water through the tubing and blocks down to the pump before the pump starts. Dry-running a pump, even for a short time can kill it.
Get some high speed fans and a fan controller for your rads. It's better to turn high-power fans down to quiet them than to have low-power fans that can't be turned up to properly cool your loop. If you really want to get the best fans, look for fans with a high 'static-pressure'. The higher the better for a rad fan.
If this is your first time with water cooling, DON'T attempt to make your own blocks...it will likely go badly.
That's all I can think of at the moment.

[diluzio91]

thats some good advice with the cooling... i was thinking of doing a push pull with the fans... that makes alot more sense to push the air out the front, also, ill be using a 4 port controller that will be stealthed into the front, the fans that will be on the outside of the comp will be cooler master blue LED fans, and for the back fans, i havn't decided yet... something inexpensive (under $10 per fan) and powerful... hmm.... possibly even these

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16835103052

water block i picked is this
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16835708019


My final dilemma, i cannot find a decent waterblock for an ATI 5770 that dosn't cost a fortune... any help?

[mDust]

My final dilemma, i cannot find a decent waterblock for an ATI 5770 that dosn't cost a fortune... any help?

Start saving pennies! :)
Full coverage GPU water blocks are expensive when they first come to market and are expensive 5 years later when the card they were designed for is completely discontinued. Cost is one of the reasons water cooling is not completely mainstream 2 decades after a bunch of nerds in their basement started fooling around with it. That and the average Joe can't be trusted to touch it without voiding half a dozen warranties.:rolleyes:

[diluzio91]

rats... http://www.frozencpu.com/products/10067/ex-blc-703/EK_Radeon_HD_5770_VGA_Liquid_Cooling_Block_-_Black_Acetal_EK-FC5770_-_Black_Acetal.html?tl=g30c309s1075 looks like thats the one...

[SXRguyinMA]

I've got a couple rads, a block, pump, and other goodies for sale, LMK if you're interested. look @ my link in the for sale section

[diluzio91]

lol, new question, alot of the stuff i have been looking at varies between 3/8 and 1/2, to go from one to the other is it just as simple as changing out the barbs? i kind of want to use compression fittings for some parts so i dont have to do any worm drive bands or zip ties. thoughts?

[Starlite KNight]

Get adapters to change from one diameter to the other.

As for GPU blocks, you can get a universal block and some heat sinks. Something like an MCW60 (http://www.swiftnets.com/products/mcw60-R.asp).

[mDust]

lol, new question, alot of the stuff i have been looking at varies between 3/8 and 1/2, to go from one to the other is it just as simple as changing out the barbs? i kind of want to use compression fittings for some parts so i dont have to do any worm drive bands or zip ties. thoughts?

Yep, you can swap out 3/8" dia G1/4 fittings with 1/2" G1/4 fittings no problem. The G1/4 is the pipe thread size...most water cooling parts use G1/4 as a standard. As long as all your parts use the same threading, you can swap any size diameter fittings/hose. It's a good idea to keep all your fittings the same diameter to keep the water flowing smoothly throughout the whole loop.

Edit: Speaking of thread sizes, for your custom res, you'll need a BSPP 1/4 19tpi tap for the threads where your fittings screw in. These are a bit difficult to find and you'll probably only find them online. Otherwise, use a local standard and get a fitting that matches it. NPT 20tpi and BSPP 19tpi are not compatible and will leak.

[diluzio91]

I think i should be ok for the fittings on the res... my stepdad (AHQP) works at a pattern shop and has just about everthing for threads you can think of... so ill order 2 less fittings than i think i will need and go from there. :banana:

[x88x]

Speaking from experience, I would not recommend cooling a hot CPU and GPU with just 2x120 of rad space. While it will work, it will run pretty hot (my loop stayed at a constant temp in the low 60's at idle, iirc). What you could do is swap the placement of the res and the top rad, and put in a 2x120 or 2x140 rad in the top of the case (in addition to the lower 1x120). I would also add another recommendation to run the res directly into the pump. This makes it much easier to deal with when you're filling the loop, and ensures that your pump is never running dry. As a lost note, I would recommend using a non-conductive coolant instead of distilled water. Yes, the thermal properties may not be quite the same, but it's worth it, imo, for the peace of mind that if you have a leak you don't run the risk of frying your system. I use the Feser One coolant; it runs about $20/litre.

[diluzio91]

i was wondering that too... i was reading some more worklogs and saw something along those lines... do you think a 1x120 and a 2x120 would be able to do the job? im trying to think of how to keep everything in the case and looking neat and tidy, while still having good cooling.. and the res has to stay in the position i have in the case, mainly because its going to be the "centerpiece" of the case... On a side note, i will be using a phenom 2x4 and a 5770, but at first ill be just cooling my amd athalon x2 kuma

new renders
1x120, 2x120 render

http://i838.photobucket.com/albums/zz302/diluzio91/casewithplans-1.png

2x120, 2x120 render, i would avoid this if i could, just because i would have to do some... interesting things to the harddrive cage...

http://i838.photobucket.com/albums/zz302/diluzio91/casewithplans-2.png

[x88x]

It should be fine with the 2x120 and 1x120 if you use dual-flow rads. I would recommend either the TFC XChanger (http://www.frozencpu.com/products/7216/ex-rad-130/Feser_XChanger_Dual_120mm_Xtreme_Performance_Radia tor_-_Thermochill_Killers.html?tl=g30c95s160) rads or the Black Ice GTX (http://www.frozencpu.com/products/5325/ex-rad-108/Black_Ice_GTX_Xtreme_240_Radiator_-_Black.html?tl=g30c95s160) Extreme. They're thicker and more expensive, but you get much more thermal transfer capacity.

[diluzio91]

whats the difference between a single flow and a double flow (besides being thicker?)

[x88x]

I can't find any numbers, but a double flow rad (iirc), is exactly what it sounds like; it has two loops through the fins instead of one, resulting in more thermal transfer.

[diluzio91]

So next week i will be starting to build my custom res, Should i start a worklog just for that?

[x88x]

So next week i will be starting to build my custom res, Should i start a worklog just for that?

Hells yeah! :D

[diluzio91]

for plexi, is it better to cut it to size and then drill? or is it better to make the drill holes for and then cut it, i will be using the score and snap method for the cuts

[mDust]

for plexi, is it better to cut it to size and then drill? or is it better to make the drill holes for and then cut it, i will be using the score and snap method for the cuts

Cut it to size first. Also, when drilling, use a low speed or the acrylic will melt. I didn't think that would happen even though I read about it happening to tons of people...so I found out for my self on purpose. I got some bits stuck in the acrylic...It hardens as soon as the hole is cut because there's no longer enough friction to melt it.

[diluzio91]

Ill be starting my res tomorrow, i ordered the fittings tonight from jab tech, way cheaper than anywhere else.

https://www.jab-tech.com/Bitspower-G1-4-Matt-Black-1-2-Fitting-BP-MBWP-C01-pr-4516.html

https://www.jab-tech.com/Bitspower-Matt-Black-G1-4-Stop-Fitting-BP-MBWP-C06-pr-4517.html

https://www.jab-tech.com/Bitspower-O-Rings-UV-Blue-10-Pack-pr-4561.html

I chose to go with the Bitspower fittings because they look niiice... they make me happpy. This will be made into a work log tomorrow when i actually start. :D

[x88x]

Nice find; their prices are a good bit cheaper than other places I've looked. And yes, those matte black Bitspower fittings are awesome. :D