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blaze15301
07-22-2010, 02:24 PM
hello everyone. i want to first say thank you to buzz for helping me out a bit earlier.
i have a mini bike that has been going to waste for some time now. im currently working on rebuilding the engine. i am looking into performance parts. i am a bit scarred tho i mean if i take the Governor out i cant make the bike go 35 ish. if i had some little things it can go up to 50. im not sue what im going to do. but if i get hurt or killed it will be documented lol. now onto the pictures.

this is before i did anything to the bike.
http://i410.photobucket.com/albums/pp190/blaze15301/bike/GEDC0599.jpg

http://i410.photobucket.com/albums/pp190/blaze15301/bike/GEDC0600.jpg

http://i410.photobucket.com/albums/pp190/blaze15301/bike/GEDC0601.jpg

as you can see the condition it is in is not very good.
someone left it out last winter:facepalm:. so that is why its all rusty.

blaze15301
07-22-2010, 02:31 PM
next i took the engine off the frame,turns out it was easier without the chain lol.

http://i410.photobucket.com/albums/pp190/blaze15301/bike/GEDC0605.jpg
the bike engineless.

http://i410.photobucket.com/albums/pp190/blaze15301/bike/GEDC0602.jpg
the engine before i tore it apart.

http://i410.photobucket.com/albums/pp190/blaze15301/bike/GEDC0606.jpg
when i tore it halfway apart.

http://i410.photobucket.com/albums/pp190/blaze15301/bike/GEDC0607.jpg
just a different view.

i am now down to the camshaft. i have to get batteries for the camera. and a breaker bar for 2 little bolts inside the opening. i have to replace the rods in there as well. if you guys have any tips feel free to give me advice. all this is very new to me.

im going to clean every piece very good. get all the rust,dirt,and oil off everything. im thinking about painting it but im not to sure what i can paint be sides the body and what colors.

mDust
07-22-2010, 03:21 PM
Just something I've realized, despite everyone with more experience constantly warning me, if you're going to be using the tools that you buy, get the good ones. Yeah, they cost more. But they tend to not break/fail like the cheap ones do. Even if they do fail, companies like Craftsman will replace the tool with a new one at no charge for the rest of your life.
Working on my car last month broke several of the cheapo sockets and the wrench itself from the very first tool set I ever bought (like 10 years ago). A socket should never break when torquing on it by hand...:mad:

Anyway, minibikes are fun! Good luck getting it running.:up:

altec
07-22-2010, 09:02 PM
Looks good! I consider that to be great shape!

What is the deal with the clutch? I know nothing about these big wheel, but something has me scratching my head.

I would try and get the most out of the engine without spending money, then strap the biggest rear sprocket I can get on it. But I like low-end grunt. Are you going to mess with sprockets at all? If you are looking for more top-end speed then that is the easiest way to do it. If you can get more power out of the engine in the lower RPM range and you stick a smaller sprocket on it you'll have about the same acceleration, but raise your top-speed considerably. That combined with the raised gov' you could easily kill yourself. :D It is all a balancing act though. Enough gear to get your butt moving with as little as possible so you aren't RPM'ing the snot out of it.

Random thought for you is I know people who run go-karts, and stuff without clutches. If you just want a top-speed machine that is always a option... Just make a scooter-style kick stand so you can just push off when you get it started! This might be a bit much though... Haha.

Good luck to you sir! I love having projects like these! My Honda ATC was a nice simple project. I have a little mini bike someone left at my house I may fiddle with next. And I'm really wanting to try and stuff a Cheby 305SB I have laying around in a Deere lawn mower (riding tractor). Now THAT is killing yourself! Just be prepared to go FULL RETARD! :twisted:

Will be watching! Can't wait to see what you do! I hope you do some fancy paint for the frame. I used to have a little 3HP mini bike when I was little that I did a nice flake paint on. It really made all the difference on the looks!

blaze15301
07-22-2010, 10:09 PM
Just something I've realized, despite everyone with more experience constantly warning me, if you're going to be using the tools that you buy, get the good ones. Yeah, they cost more. But they tend to not break/fail like the cheap ones do. Even if they do fail, companies like Craftsman will replace the tool with a new one at no charge for the rest of your life.
Working on my car last month broke several of the cheapo sockets and the wrench itself from the very first tool set I ever bought (like 10 years ago). A socket should never break when torquing on it by hand...:mad:

Anyway, minibikes are fun! Good luck getting it running.:up:

i know all about those got dam cheap ass tools. bought a huge C clamp for a dollar and it snapped in half on me.



Looks good! I consider that to be great shape!

What is the deal with the clutch? I know nothing about these big wheel, but something has me scratching my head.

I would try and get the most out of the engine without spending money, then strap the biggest rear sprocket I can get on it. But I like low-end grunt. Are you going to mess with sprockets at all? If you are looking for more top-end speed then that is the easiest way to do it. If you can get more power out of the engine in the lower RPM range and you stick a smaller sprocket on it you'll have about the same acceleration, but raise your top-speed considerably. That combined with the raised gov' you could easily kill yourself. :D It is all a balancing act though. Enough gear to get your butt moving with as little as possible so you aren't RPM'ing the snot out of it.

Random thought for you is I know people who run go-karts, and stuff without clutches. If you just want a top-speed machine that is always a option... Just make a scooter-style kick stand so you can just push off when you get it started! This might be a bit much though... Haha.

Good luck to you sir! I love having projects like these! My Honda ATC was a nice simple project. I have a little mini bike someone left at my house I may fiddle with next. And I'm really wanting to try and stuff a Cheby 305SB I have laying around in a Deere lawn mower (riding tractor). Now THAT is killing yourself! Just be prepared to go FULL RETARD! :twisted:

Will be watching! Can't wait to see what you do! I hope you do some fancy paint for the frame. I used to have a little 3HP mini bike when I was little that I did a nice flake paint on. It really made all the difference on the looks!

honestly i have no idea. i do have to change out the sprocket on the engine. this motor is normally 6.5 hp with i think 3300rpms. it can go about 19mph as is. if i take the Governor off it will run at 6600 rpms. as for the clutch i do believe it is that huge round rusted thing but don't quote me on that. im trying to get the best performance for as little money as possible. im going to change the air filter.:devious:

oh yeah of course it is going to be painted, just not sure on the colors yet. might go light green to neon orange or something.

altec
07-22-2010, 10:27 PM
Yes, sir the rusty round thing with the small sprocket on it is the clutch. But it is confusing the hell out of me. It is like something is on wrong. The clutch runs a chain to the jack shaft which goes to the rear sprocket. It is almost like something was on backwards?

The cheapest things to do IMO is air flow mods, fuel, and sprockets. Port the head, make a free-flowing exhaust, and make the exhaust port on the head match the exhaust flange (I can explain this if you like). then of course a nice flowing air cleaner. I wouldn't bother with a oiled one. No need. Then rejet the carb. Sprockets are cheap. Just find one that has similar specs. If you can't find a exact match, some measuring, and a drill can make it work. I did this with a Honda XR80 when I was a butt wiper. It was like night and day. But I went with a bigger one so I could get more low-end. For trail riding...And maybe some clutch poppin'! :whistler:

blaze15301
07-22-2010, 10:44 PM
lol im gonna guess you do this kinda of stuff alot. im getting ahead of myself now. right now all i need to do is get the entire engine apart clean everything up so its nice and good then remove the Governor and see if it starts. then i will start adding performance parts.

im just having a really hard time finding the torque setting for everything. i have absolutely no mechanical background.

but thanks for offering your help

altec
07-23-2010, 12:26 AM
Haha, it's a hobby.

I would say that is your best bet. Get it together, and running. Then you can start messing with stuff. It isn't hard to pull the head back off. Nor the carb.

Not sure if you have already thought about this, but you should be careful running it without the Gov'. Running the RPM's above what the engine was set at does put more stress on it, and will wear parts out quicker. And running at WOT for long periods of time can do serious damage without a governor. Just something to keep in mind.

I might catch crap for this, but I wouldn't worry about torque specs. Just tighten everything down good. This ain't no racing engine running 10k. If you do want the manual though I'd first try google for it. You need a service manual. If that doesn't work, maybe Ebay? I would also try to find a local parts dealer for your engine brand. They might be able to order a manual for you. While you are at it you can try directly contacting the manufacture.

Not sure if you already knew but I believe that is a Honda engine? If it is, then any Honda dealer (Non-Car dealers...) should be able to get you a service manual for it.

blaze15301
07-23-2010, 01:08 AM
yepp its a honda gx200 there is a lot that can be done with this engine.

Drum Thumper
07-23-2010, 09:30 AM
I might catch crap for this, but I wouldn't worry about torque specs. Just tighten everything down good.

Not going to give you any crap, but I am going to say the following: if this is OP's first time at tearing down an engine, I would highly recommend torquing everything to the manual specs, if only for the experience. Nothing at all wrong with doing things like this by the book.

Snowman
07-23-2010, 09:35 AM
Not to be a downer or anything but if this is anything like the models I sold at Tractor Supply you may be doing a whole lot more work than its worth. Had a guy buy one of these, came back aobut two weeks later and bought a briggs and stratton motor off the shelf and replaced the hunk of crap that came with it.

blaze15301
07-23-2010, 01:27 PM
yeah ive read some things about this engine being a pain in the ass and not being very good but the block its self is very good that's all that matters really. mostly everything else is going to be replaced with better performance parts.

Snowman
07-23-2010, 01:30 PM
Like I said just trying to warn ya more than anything, might also see if you can't get it on a frame jig to re-enforce it.. minor thread jack I think I may be doing a little build of my own in the spring Kikker Hardknock (http://www.kikker5150.com/hardknock.html)

altec
07-23-2010, 07:44 PM
Hey, Blaze. Gotta PM you. Might have some neat info after talking to my Dad.

blaze15301
07-23-2010, 11:34 PM
+ rep altec.

thanks for the help glad all you guys are nice enough to give me some pointers.

blaze15301
07-24-2010, 03:00 AM
mini update

since i cant finish the bike till sunday. i figured iwould just start working on the carb. i started tearing it apart then i realized i have no idea if water will rust this thing or not. so i grabbed some peroxide. i have found rust every where. on the brass,plastic,even inside the chamber. now here is where things get confusing is it safe to use water on these like let it all soak in warm water for a few days or something. the rust is very thick on here. im having a hell of a time getting it off. here are soem pics.

http://i410.photobucket.com/albums/pp190/blaze15301/GEDC0630.jpg
the chamber. you can kind of see the build up of white stuff.

http://i410.photobucket.com/albums/pp190/blaze15301/GEDC0634.jpg
a better picture. as you can clearly see the white stuff and rust.

http://i410.photobucket.com/albums/pp190/blaze15301/GEDC0635.jpg
the top side with all the valves and jazz.

http://i410.photobucket.com/albums/pp190/blaze15301/GEDC0636.jpg
and the other side of the chamber.


so if any one has any ideas let me know!!

mDust
07-24-2010, 08:28 AM
Carb cleaner, wire brush, and elbow grease. The inside needs to be much cleaner than the outside.

msmrx57
07-24-2010, 01:04 PM
Paint thinner, mineral spirits or turpentine will also work as cheaper substitutes for carb cleaner. I've got a table top parts washer and the "special" solution that they sell for it smells just like turpentine. Also on the inside use a brass wire brush so it doesn't chew up the venturi of the carb. Scotchbrite pads work well to. Like mDust said elbow grease, there's simply no replacement for that.

altec
07-24-2010, 02:19 PM
Water won't do much. Maybe loosen some dirt. It won't hurt anything either. Just dry all the steel parts after you pull them out.

I always use carb cleaner, and diesel fuel. That, with some wire brushes, a screw driver for a pick, and some rags you can do the job nicely. I suggest getting some latex gloves for this. Eye protection is nice to, but I ain't your poppa...

The biggest thing while cleaning is getting all the crap out of the bowl, and cleaning all the small fuel ports. If you have access with a air compressor with a air blower you can do this easy. Otherwise you can pick up a orifice cleaning tool. Most of the time they are in a blue little case. Most welding shops sell them, and even Home Depot should have them in their little welding/soldering section. Or you can always use small sewing needles.

I also suggest taking it apart on a tray. Don't want to lose any parts. I find it easiest to pull the bowl off, clean the whole carb the best I can then do the internal pieces one at a time. Putting them right back after cleaning.

blaze15301
07-24-2010, 02:20 PM
lol i sat at my desk for 3 hour last night dis assembling the carb and cleaning every bit with q-tips but i want this thing to look brand spanking new so if i just hose it off or run it under water will it rust.

oh and i went to the auto parts store for a gasket and i was talking to the guy and he basically called me retarded when i said i wanted to bore the carb out. i just love it when people are so negative to what i know i can do with things.

by the way in case you guys are curious or want some parts this is (http://www.affordablegokarts.com/mm5/merchant.mvc?Screen=CTGY&Store_Code=A&Category_Code=GGPP5) the site im using.

Snowman
07-26-2010, 12:49 PM
I find this site awesome as well for those who like to tinker kikker (http://www.kikker5150.com/indexb.html)

blaze15301
08-02-2010, 02:14 AM
well guys sorry i havn t posted in a while but money is tight and im having issues getting what i need around here with out people looking at me like im stupid. i probably wont be back to this until after my birthday witch is on the 5th ill be 18. so hopefully i will have this done soon.

blaze15301
11-16-2010, 10:39 PM
update


so far i have removed the fly wheel and cleane the carb out. i broke off a bolt for the rocker plates so now i have to find a place that sells those. im working on cleaning the fly wheels. by the way if you ever need to remove a fly wheel have the proper tools a screw drive a ratchet and a friend does not work to well. basickly i had to have my brother stadn ont he engine while i pryed a beat the fly wheel till it came loose enough to come off. it was interesting. i just found my camera so i might have picks tomorrow. well that is all for now. will up date when i get more done.

altec
11-17-2010, 08:16 PM
Good to hear you are still messing with this. That sucks about the rocker bolt. Were you able to get it out?

blaze15301
11-18-2010, 01:17 AM
Good to hear you are still messing with this. That sucks about the rocker bolt. Were you able to get it out?

yeah i got it out just fine after it snapped in half.but this whole project is making me want a real bike now lol.

x88x
11-18-2010, 03:53 PM
this whole project is making me want a real bike now lol.

Heheheh, yees. Come, join the dark side. :twisted:


...we have cookies. :D

blaze15301
11-18-2010, 08:38 PM
update


today i basickly just cleaned some stuff up. i wont really be able to start reassembling it until i get the rocker bolts and gaskets. but hell int he mean time i can do other stuff to it. so today i cleaned the fly wheel and the oil pan. and figured out witch colors the block and everything is going to be painted.


top half of the fly wheel
http://i410.photobucket.com/albums/pp190/blaze15301/bike/GEDC0871.jpg

side

http://i410.photobucket.com/albums/pp190/blaze15301/bike/GEDC0872.jpg



now the engine, before i took it apart.

http://i410.photobucket.com/albums/pp190/blaze15301/bike/GEDC0873.jpg

http://i410.photobucket.com/albums/pp190/blaze15301/bike/GEDC0874.jpg

the inards a bit

http://i410.photobucket.com/albums/pp190/blaze15301/bike/GEDC0875.jpg

now on to the oil pan.


before i polished it.
http://i410.photobucket.com/albums/pp190/blaze15301/bike/GEDC0876.jpg

wire brushed it

http://i410.photobucket.com/albums/pp190/blaze15301/bike/GEDC0877.jpg

close up
http://i410.photobucket.com/albums/pp190/blaze15301/bike/GEDC0878.jpg

after the polish was put on
http://i410.photobucket.com/albums/pp190/blaze15301/bike/GEDC0880.jpg

close up
http://i410.photobucket.com/albums/pp190/blaze15301/bike/GEDC0879.jpg.


that was my first time ever polishing anything so i know its not the best job. but i used a wire brush bit for the dremel and a wash cloth to clean it.
here are some tears of whats goign on now.

im not to sure what to call this piece but it needs to be cleaned lol
http://i410.photobucket.com/albums/pp190/blaze15301/bike/GEDC0882.jpg

same thing as above just the top is off it.
http://i410.photobucket.com/albums/pp190/blaze15301/bike/GEDC0883.jpg

and the rusty muffler.

http://i410.photobucket.com/albums/pp190/blaze15301/bike/GEDC0884.jpg


tat is all for now. my color scheme im thinking maybe the block black and then the tank and muffler green. and the frame will be black and green as well.

blaze15301
11-18-2010, 08:40 PM
Heheheh, yees. Come, join the dark side. :twisted:


...we have cookies. :D

yeah im not thinking street bike i want a nice big harley or something similar to it. i got a till the end of 2011 to get a vehicle to drive( its when i can legally get my license) i kinda want a piece of junk to work on over the winter and summer.

x88x
11-18-2010, 09:13 PM
Check craigslist/etc around you for an old Honda. They're great. :D Me and my dad both have early 80's Hondas (1980 CM400T for me, 1984 Magna 500 for him), and they're great. I especially like mine since it has, seriously, about 10 moving parts, so as long as I clean the carbs occasionally (they start leaking if it sits without running for more than about a week or two) it runs forever. :D You can pick up a decent one for less than $1,000 too! Here's a few off craigslist for nearish you.
http://pittsburgh.craigslist.org/mcy/2061235260.html (This one makes me wish I was in the market, tbh.)
http://pittsburgh.craigslist.org/mcy/2066331909.html
http://pittsburgh.craigslist.org/mcy/2064244893.html

Here's mine:
http://i428.photobucket.com/albums/qq3/x13931x/HPIM0479.jpg

blaze15301
11-18-2010, 09:28 PM
Here's mine:
http://i428.photobucket.com/albums/qq3/x13931x/HPIM0479.jpg

that's the bike i want one like yours.

yeah i checked there im going to save up like a 1000 or so and buy one.

x88x
11-18-2010, 09:58 PM
that's the bike i want one like yours.

Heheh, thanks, I like it. :D I really love the classic cruiser look.

If you can, I would recommend trying out a 2-cylinder as well as a 4 (if you can find one). My dad's Magna is a V4 (actually the first 4-cylinder bike Honda made, iirc), and while it is more complicated, the ride is much smoother. Oh, and don't worry about getting a really big one. Mine is only 400cc (thus the name ;) ), and while it won't do 0-60 in 6s like it is supposed to, it will do it in probably about 8s. And merging onto a highway, I just drop it down into 3rd and I can go from 35 to 60 in probably about 3s. :twisted: I find the power usually peaks around 7-8,000 RPMs...and it doesn't redline until 10,000. :twisted:

blaze15301
11-18-2010, 10:23 PM
Heheh, thanks, I like it. :D I really love the classic cruiser look.

If you can, I would recommend trying out a 2-cylinder as well as a 4 (if you can find one). My dad's Magna is a V4 (actually the first 4-cylinder bike Honda made, iirc), and while it is more complicated, the ride is much smoother. Oh, and don't worry about getting a really big one. Mine is only 400cc (thus the name ;) ), and while it won't do 0-60 in 6s like it is supposed to, it will do it in probably about 8s. And merging onto a highway, I just drop it down into 3rd and I can go from 35 to 60 in probably about 3s. :twisted: I find the power usually peaks around 7-8,000 RPMs...and it doesn't redline until 10,000. :twisted:

lol well when i do get a bike it will probably be stock for maybe a year:twisted:. then its all performance.

x88x
11-19-2010, 12:26 AM
Heheheh, you want real performance, dump the engine, drop a 20-30kW+ electric motor in there with several grand worth of high end Lithiums (LiFePO4, LiCO, etc). :twisted: That's my next big project. Low end torque like you will not believe!

blaze15301
11-19-2010, 12:57 AM
Heheheh, you want real performance, dump the engine, drop a 20-30kW+ electric motor in there with several grand worth of high end Lithiums (LiFePO4, LiCO, etc). :twisted: That's my next big project. Low end torque like you will not believe!

well if i had 7 grand id buy a Harley instead of a Honda lol. and youd have your money by now lol.

x88x
11-19-2010, 02:30 AM
Lol, good point. :P

msmrx57
11-19-2010, 05:16 PM
Old Kawi's are good too. I've got a '79 KZ650SR that I'm making look like something out of a Mad Max movie.

CanaBalistic
11-21-2010, 08:24 PM
im not to sure what to call this piece but it needs to be cleaned lol


http://i410.photobucket.com/albums/pp190/blaze15301/bike/GEDC0882.jpg



same thing as above just the top is off it.


http://i410.photobucket.com/albums/pp190/blaze15301/bike/GEDC0883.jpg



.

Thats the centrifugal clutch

Also, you can increase engine response if you take the fly wheel in to a brake shop and have them trim some weight off on a brake lathe.

blaze15301
11-21-2010, 09:14 PM
Thats the centrifugal clutch

Also, you can increase engine response if you take the fly wheel in to a brake shop and have them trim some weight off on a brake lathe.

im going to end up buying a aluminum fly wheel that will shave about 2 -3 pounds off the whole thing.

blaze15301
12-12-2010, 03:07 AM
update


i have been very busy on this thing. hopefully by the end of next week the motor will be back together and running. so far i have stripped out 6 bolts 3 nuts and i also have 3 bruised knuckles. i dont have many pics of what i have been doing but i do have some of the engine its self being shined up a bit. i got the gaskets to put everything back together just working on the rocker plates. those are what is giving me the most trouble, damn delicate things. the jack shaft is back on. the fly wheel nut and rod had to be re thread because when i took it off i used such force i destroyed the threads on it. i will have more pics p tomorrow maybe. but here is what i have thus far.

http://i410.photobucket.com/albums/pp190/blaze15301/GEDC0908.jpg

the top of the block.


http://i410.photobucket.com/albums/pp190/blaze15301/GEDC0910.jpg

side without the flywheel.


http://i410.photobucket.com/albums/pp190/blaze15301/GEDC0912.jpg

fly wheel,clutch and clutch cover being cleaned.

that is all i have right now.

also a side note. harbor fright is like my new toys r us. i love that place went there for the first time today.

CorsePerVita
12-12-2010, 04:38 AM
im going to end up buying a aluminum fly wheel that will shave about 2 -3 pounds off the whole thing.

The amount you gain on a bike that small is not that big of a deal. Hell, I haven't even bothered with a superlight flywheel for my Ducati. :whistler: (don't tell the other guys that):twisted:

You'd be better off spending the money on new clutch parts and going through the bike and getting fresh new parts on things that'll make a nice noticeable difference. That's my own $.02 but that's just me.

This bike sure does bring back memories. First bike I ever rode was a minibike, what a kick in the pants it was.

http://oo2w.com/koihoshi/images/ducati/clutch/7.jpg

http://oo2w.com/koihoshi/images/ducati/clutch/5.jpg

blaze15301
12-13-2010, 01:24 PM
from what i understand. the aluminum fly wheel takes weight away from the whole thing. so in turn it puts less stress of the parts and give a small performance boost. but its mostly a weight reduction technique

msmrx57
12-13-2010, 03:22 PM
An aluminum flywheel will improve throttle response due to reduced rotating mass. On an engine like this it won't be a huge difference.

altec
12-13-2010, 04:48 PM
If it was mine, I'd rig up a ghetto balancing setup (Like a home tire balancer) and start drilling speed holes.

If it works, cool. If not, then it would have been fun.

CorsePerVita
12-13-2010, 09:39 PM
An aluminum flywheel will improve throttle response due to reduced rotating mass. On an engine like this it won't be a huge difference.

Absolutely correct. You are using less rotational mass, therefore less energy is needed to raise the RPMS since the engine isn't using all that energy towards that rotating mass. Nice when you are trying to shift quickly, or trying to increase response. Not saying it's a bad thing, not by any means.

Only time i've really ever seen anyone bother is if they're decreasing laptimes at the track or if they're absolutely wanting quick shifts. On something as small as a minibike, meh. But it's your dough, if you want to, by all means! Mod it up!



from what i understand. the aluminum fly wheel takes weight away from the whole thing. so in turn it puts less stress of the parts and give a small performance boost. but its mostly a weight reduction technique

It takes weight away from the flywheel.

Let me use an analogy. Let's say you have a wooden dowel. Pretend it's a crankshaft. You are the engine. You put a huge weight on the end, say a 10lb weight, and you try to spin it. You can eventually turn and turn and get it up to say 4000rpm... but it takes a while, it's heavy!

Obviously, if the engine had more power, and the weight was about the same, it'd rev a lot faster than you can spin it, but imagine why it would take a while.

Now, pretend you're holding the dowel again, but this time, the weight (flywheel) is now 5 lbs less. You no doubt would be able to spin it MUCH FASTER.

Some benefits of this are raising the RPM takes less time, so depending on how shifting is setup, can actuall decrease your shifting time slightly. The other benefit is that there is less stress the engine puts out so you do gain a slight amount of power (depending on how heavy the flywheel is).

So all in all it's not so bad. But here is a few bad things....

Aluminum does not wear as well as harder metals, so depending on the surface of the flywheel (some are aluminum with inserts, most bike flywheels are just aluminum for the lightweight ones) it may actually wear a lot faster.

The other problem is that in an application where the rpms can change very quickly, matching rpms can be somewhat difficult as you are essentially just "blipping" the throttle and dumping the clutch in some instances, totally depends. This can make it a real pain in the butt to shift. Again, depends on the weight of it and how fast the thing revvs up in the first place. Application, etc...

.

..
........ that said...

A few things you could do to get some more kick out of this bad boy.

Sprocket combination... If you change the sprocket combination on the little bugger you could actually end up making your final drive "shorter" and get some more oomph out of it. You'd lower the top speed but it would accelerate faster. This is a very cheap and EASY WAY to grab the acceleration out of a bike just by changing the front srocket down a tooth or two.

For instance you have a bike with a 14T sprocket and say a 42 in rear, depending on chain length let's say at 70mph in 6th gear you're at 8500rpms. If you changed it to 14T you may drop it to say 8000rpm, and increase your top speed a little, but it'd take longer to get there. If you went to a 13T sprocket, your top speed would decrease, but make it a shorter final drive, and therefore get there more quickly.

Hope that makes sense?

Anyway, nuff of my rambling. I should stop talking bikes or I'll be going on all night.

Less talk, more progress! :P

blaze15301
02-28-2011, 12:04 AM
update

well folks. i did it....... i tore the whole thing down all the way to just the block. i figured id mess around today and i went out to the shop to turn it and see if it was still ok. i herd a clicking noise and i had no idea what it was. so naturally i went a tinkering i took the entire thing apart. i did not like what i found. no more clicking tho the governor is remove. it was grinding. some advice on how to clean all this and get the piston back in would be much obliqued. thank you.

ewww look at that dirty piston. its horrific.
http://i410.photobucket.com/albums/pp190/blaze15301/bike/GEDC0069.jpg

now that is a bit better wouldn't you say. i still could use some help on how to get the other stuff off.

http://i410.photobucket.com/albums/pp190/blaze15301/bike/GEDC0078.jpg

the head gasket. im still not entirely sure how to clean this either. can i use a wire dremal bit?

http://i410.photobucket.com/albums/pp190/blaze15301/bike/GEDC0070.jpg

the cylinder after i cleaned it up.

http://i410.photobucket.com/albums/pp190/blaze15301/bike/GEDC0074.jpg

now for the govener removal.

http://i410.photobucket.com/albums/pp190/blaze15301/bike/GEDC0072.jpg

that little knob had to be cut off.

http://i410.photobucket.com/albums/pp190/blaze15301/bike/GEDC0076.jpg

look at that evil vial thing!
http://i410.photobucket.com/albums/pp190/blaze15301/bike/GEDC0068.jpg

look how roomy it is in there.
http://i410.photobucket.com/albums/pp190/blaze15301/bike/GEDC0073.jpg

how can i get the rust off the cam shaft?

http://i410.photobucket.com/albums/pp190/blaze15301/bike/GEDC0077.jpg

now for my long over due cleaned carb. she almost looks new.

http://i410.photobucket.com/albums/pp190/blaze15301/bike/GEDC0080.jpg

http://i410.photobucket.com/albums/pp190/blaze15301/bike/GEDC0081.jpg

http://i410.photobucket.com/albums/pp190/blaze15301/bike/GEDC0079.jpg

and last my new throttle.
honda = 46.79
ebay= 9.95
me=:banana:
http://i410.photobucket.com/albums/pp190/blaze15301/bike/GEDC0075.jpg

d_stilgar
02-28-2011, 03:50 AM
Nice work. I'm going to be working on my Aprilia RS50 this summer. I want to do a few mods to it and it should be fun. What did you do to clean everything?

CorsePerVita
02-28-2011, 06:22 AM
Do you have a replacement gasket for the head? You can probably clean some of it up with a VERY SOFT dremel wire brush, do not use anything abrasive on it. Your best bet is to have a local cycle shop machine it for you so it's nice and flat, take all the pitting out. They'd hardly have to take anything off of it. Getting it machined at a local shop that knows their stuff wouldn't cost much for such a small bit, too.

As to the rust on the camshaft be careful. You do not want to do anything that would scratch/dent/cause abrasion on the camshaft. The issue here is the part where the camshaft rides within the case still needs to have precise tolerances. Scratching/scoring or any accidental dents can cause you some headache down the road. If you're worried about the rust then TAPE OFF anything that rides on another surface and use some scotchbrite or something along those lines. You could also wire wheel. But don't touch any surfaces that meet other surfaces. Think of it like a head gasket on a car, or camshaft on a car, contaminants/pitting/scratches/flatspots are the devil for it.

The OTHER option is to just have someone hot tank it, you'd be amazed what a nice hot tank bath can do. Some shops use acid bath (which will pretty much strip anything off of anything) while others use a citrus bath. Either way, make sure whichever route they go will be fine for it and not harm it, but you'll be amazed how nicely it'll clean up. Same for any other potentially rusty/contaminated parts.

http://img6.imageshack.us/img6/3102/dddddlcc.jpg

My other concern would be all the rust up there on the head were the combustion chamber is (valves). With all that pitting if it's made it's way up to the valves and they have pitting on the edges near the valves and where the valves actually sit it may not seal right.

We're talking a small little teeny motorcycle not punching out much power, so this may not be of big concern, nor would it be a huge ginormous difference. But if you're going full resto and going back to original state to make sure it's all rebuilt and good to go running tip top i'd at least make sure that looks good, those areas can definitely be soft wire brushed. Just use something softer than the metal it's made out of to clean up the rust and surface areas.

Once it's running, hot gasses and oil will take care of the rest.

blaze15301
02-28-2011, 12:09 PM
Nice work. I'm going to be working on my Aprilia RS50 this summer. I want to do a few mods to it and it should be fun. What did you do to clean everything?

i used a wire brush some qtips water/gas to clean up the out side and the inside i just wiped it all down with a rag.

thank you for your input corse. the gasket for the head is aluminum so im not going to replace it, if i can. thanks for letting me know what to wire brush and what not to. that could have been bad.

blaze15301
02-28-2011, 08:47 PM
just a little update for you guys. i got the block back together. the carb is on im working on the throttle assembly now. i have to buy all new rocker plates springs and studs. the studs are stripped out and the plate cracked. the valve springs have to be upgraded to 18lb springs due to the Governor being gone. also the jack shaft rod is bent int the back. i may try to smack it with a hammer and bend it back. its not to far off. im hoping to have the engine running bye the end of the month.

CorsePerVita
03-01-2011, 03:50 AM
Keep up the good word! Looking forward to seeing it finished!

altec
03-01-2011, 05:11 AM
If this doesn't make sense, my bad. It is 4AM, and I'm getting ready to go to sleep.

The head gasket can just be wiped down, and stuck back on. That is, if it is in good condition. If it has signs that it was leaking (Soot is a easy sign there), and any kinks are a problem.

When you had the piston out did you look at the rings? I always give them a close look. If the edges of them feel sharp you need rings. Tech Tip- Take some oil and stick it in the cylinder with the head off. Leave it for a while, and come back. If you haven't lost any, or lost very little your not going to have any blow-by issues.

Unless I missed something, what you pictured is the crank shaft, not the cam? Your crank looks fine. All the contacting areas look fine. the light surface rust is on the casting, and areas not contacting anything sensitive. Wire brush, and some degreaser is fine. Just stay away from the area where the connecting rod rides. Which I assume is good? No galling, or metal from the rod stuck to it?

Oh, if your worried about the valves at all you can lap them easy enough. Google should point you in the right direction there. Easy insurance.

blaze15301
03-01-2011, 12:44 PM
If this doesn't make sense, my bad. It is 4AM, and I'm getting ready to go to sleep.

The head gasket can just be wiped down, and stuck back on. That is, if it is in good condition. If it has signs that it was leaking (Soot is a easy sign there), and any kinks are a problem.

When you had the piston out did you look at the rings? I always give them a close look. If the edges of them feel sharp you need rings. Tech Tip- Take some oil and stick it in the cylinder with the head off. Leave it for a while, and come back. If you haven't lost any, or lost very little your not going to have any blow-by issues.

Unless I missed something, what you pictured is the crank shaft, not the cam? Your crank looks fine. All the contacting areas look fine. the light surface rust is on the casting, and areas not contacting anything sensitive. Wire brush, and some degreaser is fine. Just stay away from the area where the connecting rod rides. Which I assume is good? No galling, or metal from the rod stuck to it?

Oh, if your worried about the valves at all you can lap them easy enough. Google should point you in the right direction there. Easy insurance.

ive already cleaned everything. the engine is almost back together i just have to order a few parts before ill have it running again.

blaze15301
03-03-2011, 06:18 PM
update

today i basically reassembled the engine with a few exceptions. i may have to order a new clutch since my is in 2 pieces and wont go back together. i have to order a new rocker arm my cracked. i had to make a custom governor arm rod fromt he old one and a custom return spring. im hoping to have this running the engine not the entire bike by the end of this month. if anyone has any suggestions of how to get the clutch to go back let me know ill try to pist pics. but the one end is mushroomed over. im not even sure how the hell i pulled it apart.

http://i410.photobucket.com/albums/pp190/blaze15301/GEDC0093.jpg

http://i410.photobucket.com/albums/pp190/blaze15301/GEDC0095.jpg
my custom rod with some JB weld holding it together. best stuff ever.

http://i410.photobucket.com/albums/pp190/blaze15301/GEDC0096.jpg
my return spring.

blaze15301
03-31-2011, 03:27 PM
well guys this is on ice for while until i figure out why im not getting gas to the chamber or why its not firing. i have bought a new coil and everything so i have no idea. the compression is really good on it i may have to tear her down again.

Snowman
03-31-2011, 04:00 PM
check spark before you tear it all down

blaze15301
03-31-2011, 05:40 PM
check spark before you tear it all down

i did i bought a new coil pack because the last one was really rusty.

altec
03-31-2011, 07:56 PM
No reason to tear it down. The ignition systems are pretty simple. You can trouble shoot it.

I went and spit balled about the issue with my Father. My first thought is the kill switch being FUBAR'd. His thought is the coil gap. Did you set it correctly when you install it? The gap between the coil, and the magnet pickup should be about two sheets of thin paper. Obviously as well the flywheel needs to be seated fully for the magnet to line up as well.

After you get that done you can look at your fuel issue. I would have someone pull the cord while you hold the butterfly open and spray starting fluid into the carb. If it fires, you know it is a carb issue. If it still refuses to start then it is a intake valve issue. Either it is 180* out, or just simply isn't opening for whatever reason.

blaze15301
03-31-2011, 08:41 PM
No reason to tear it down. The ignition systems are pretty simple. You can trouble shoot it.

I went and spit balled about the issue with my Father. My first thought is the kill switch being FUBAR'd. His thought is the coil gap. Did you set it correctly when you install it? The gap between the coil, and the magnet pickup should be about two sheets of thin paper. Obviously as well the flywheel needs to be seated fully for the magnet to line up as well.

After you get that done you can look at your fuel issue. I would have someone pull the cord while you hold the butterfly open and spray starting fluid into the carb. If it fires, you know it is a carb issue. If it still refuses to start then it is a intake valve issue. Either it is 180* out, or just simply isn't opening for whatever reason.

the gap between the fly wheel and the coil is 0.010 i bought a gauge. i know the carb has gas in it but it isnt getting to the piston the spark plug is clean. the fly wheel is set on nice and tight and seated properly. i just basically hand tighten the valves and rocker plate on because i couldn't find the right gap for them or figure out how that worked.

CorsePerVita
07-04-2011, 02:49 AM
Updates? Really looking forward to the finished results, you were putting a ton of work into it!

blaze15301
07-04-2011, 02:57 AM
Updates? Really looking forward to the finished results, you were putting a ton of work into it!

oh i actually forgot about this. i had a few things come up but turned out the engine died on me i plan on replacing it as soon as i get my new project finished.

here she is.

http://i410.photobucket.com/albums/pp190/blaze15301/DSC_0840.jpg
when i got it.

http://i410.photobucket.com/albums/pp190/blaze15301/GEDC0204.jpg
2 weeks later.

http://i410.photobucket.com/albums/pp190/blaze15301/GEDC0252.jpg
today.

the mini bike will eventually be done. thank you very much for reminding me about it.

CorsePerVita
07-04-2011, 03:06 AM
Sweet! looking forward to more projects and more stuff!