Water Cooling Advise

[Canadian Psycho]

Hey Guys, I have absolutly no experience in building custom water cooling systems, but the new rig needs one, so here goes nothing. Heres what the computer is running:
-Corsair Obsidian 800D case
-EVGA Classified SLI 4-way Mobo
-Intel i7 980X hexacore processor
-2x EVGA GTX 480 SC GPUs
-12 gb Corsair Domintor RAM

What I have planned for water cooling is this:
-Fesser One X-360 TFC Xchanger Triple 120mm rad http://www.tfc-xchanger.com/

-Swifttech MCP655 12V pump (1/2" barbs) http://www.swiftnets.com/products/mcp655.asp

-XSPC BR525DUG Dual bay Acrylic resevoir http://www.xspc.biz/dualbayclear2.php

-Koolance NX-480 Full Cover SLI water blocks x2 http://www.koolance.com/water-cooling/product_info.php?product_id=1017

-Swifttech APOGEE XT LGA1366 CPU Chrome water block http://www.swiftnets.com/

-All tubing is going to be 1/2" with Bitspower True silver barb fittins and hose clamps.


What I am thinking is running a single loop from res, to the pump, to the bottom GPU, top GPU, CPU, then Radiator mounted on the top of the case back down the the res.

What do you guys think about this system? should I switch the loop so its going pump>CPU>GPU 1>GPU 2> rad?

thanks in advance

[diluzio91]

ummm.... i would be extremely careful about the koolance blocks... from what i remember koolance has a tendancy to use aluminum which will lead to some nasty galvanic corrosion with the copper.. For a GTX 480 i would recommend this guy http://www.dangerden.com/store/dd-gtx480-all-copper-version.html from dangerden. also, compression fittings would look far far better if cost isnt a big issue...

[Canadian Psycho]

From what I found on Koolance's website it is a solid Copper block with a nickle coating with stainless top cover for the acrylic illuminated lid

[diluzio91]

hmm... could you link all the WC products? lol... hate to be a pest... im just too tired to google

[Canadian Psycho]

links up

[mDust]

I would second the compression fittings and switch the loop to res>pump>cpu>gpu>gpu>rad as cpus are less tolerant of heat than gpus.
As for Koolance, I've been running a VID-290 for about 3 years now with no problems. It's copper and stainless steel. I also have been running their RP-1000 which is still working great, even without their 'special non-warranty-voiding coolant'. I would guess the rest of their products are pretty good as well.

[x88x]

The system and loop components look good. I would also recommend running the block CPU-GPU-GPU, for the reason mDust stated. I would also recommend getting more radiator space. You're cooling the three hottest components on the market right now...I would want at least 4x120 worth of rad space, if not more.

[Canadian Psycho]

If I were to run the second radiator (120mm single Fesser One Xchanger) would it be advisable to run a second pump to keep flow rates up?

[mDust]

If I were to run the second radiator (120mm single Fesser One Xchanger) would it be advisable to run a second pump to keep flow rates up?

Nah, that pump is plenty powerful. Flow rate actually isn't all that important anyway. As long as the water is moving, you're good to go.:up:

[x88x]

Yeah, that one pump is more than enough. Let me put it this way. I have a single DDC-12V 18W (http://www.dangerden.com/store/dd-laing-ddc-12v-18-watt-version-3.2.html) (which is less powerful the one you're using) pushing a CPU block, a NB block, a mosfet block, a full-coverage GPU block, a Black Ice GTX120 (1x120), a Black Ice Extreme III (3x120), and a TFC Monsta (3x140 + super thick), and it still keeps a very quick flow rate. Pumps like these that are specifically designed for use in PC liquid cooling systems are very powerful.

[Spawn-Inc]

i would STRONGLY recommend alot more rad that is a ton of heat, ideally 2 triples for that or a triple and double 120mm.

otherwise it's a great build you got going, i would however change out the cpu block for the current champ the EK Supreme HF.

as for the pump it will handle alot of stuff, i run 3 triple rads, 2 blocks, over 15 feet of tubing and one mcp655 can handle it all. but i do have 2 as i had 2 from before i built this loop.


another thought if you want to save some space would be to get XSPC's new res for the mcp655 which can hold the pump inside the bay's seen here.
XSPC Acrylic Dual 5.25” Reservoir (http://www.sidewindercomputers.com/xsacdu5refor1.html)

[Kayin]

I'm going to second the EK Supreme HF. Also, you do need a LOT more rad than you have unless you want merely "acceptable" temps off that setup.

I would recommend at least another 3x120 (you could always do the Swiftech stacked rads in the space of a Feser and get more surface area) but honestly a pair of 4x120 or a 4x140 or the Magicool 9x120 are all honestly players right here. A single GTX480 puts out more heat than one of my 4870x2s. Wrap your head around that for a second. Now put two in a loop with a very hot CPU. You can do the math.

Anyway let us know what you decide and we can help you from there.

[Canadian Psycho]

For now I am thinking to run an extra single 120mm Rad with the triple 120mm rad. Run it in a single loop going res > pump > CPU > single rad > GPU 1 > GPU 2 > Triple rad > res

[Spawn-Inc]

that won't be enough rad IMO to get good temps, you will likely get temps within a safe limit, but maybe not to your likely. then again as long as the temps are within safe limits and your overclocks are rock solid, there is no reason to have lower temps.

[Canadian Psycho]

How about ditching the current pump/res and going with a full external system to complement the triple and single? something like a Koolance ERM 2K3U http://www.koolance.com/water-cooling/product_info.php?product_id=1030

[mDust]

How about ditching the current pump/res and going with a full external system to complement the triple and single? something like a Koolance ERM 2K3U http://www.koolance.com/water-cooling/product_info.php?product_id=1030
2000 watts of cooling capacity? That thing is pretty awesome. I'd say get it if you have 900 bucks to spend. Now I'll say don't get it, because you honestly don't need it. I don't know, flip a coin!:D

[Canadian Psycho]

or how about a Exos-2 for a not so overkill external unit:D http://www.koolance.com/water-cooling/product_info.php?product_id=805

[Spawn-Inc]

stay away from koolance units like that, no good. the first one you linked to is bs the numbers, and is insanely overpriced. the second unit uses aluminum rads which is bad to do in water cooling.


it likely won't be your thing, but you can custom build an external setup, here is mine, http://www.overclockers.com/forums/showthread.php?t=611339

here is another one, http://www.overclockers.com/forums/showthread.php?t=617283

[x88x]

Personally I prefer to do everything from scratch, but yeah, either of those external units would work great.

EDIT:
Nvm, I didn't notice the aluminum on the second one...mixing metals baaad.

[Oneslowz28]

There is a photo somewhere of a guys Koolance block that used mixed metals and the corrosion was so bad, it had ate a hole in the block.

[mDust]

Koolance nickel plates their water-blocks which prevents galvanic corrosion...that's why it's fine for them to mix metals.
That Exos-2 V2 will work with a plated copper block, otherwise, a copper-core rad is necessary to keep the APOGEE XT.

[Canadian Psycho]

Alright, heres a question, does anyone here has experience with stacking rads in a sandwich style? Im thinkin ditch the single, grab another triple rad and sandwich them on the top of the case, one inside, one out, with 3 fans on the bottom of the stack, then 3 in between then loop them together?

Or should I do that but keep the single to give the coolant some cooling after the CPU but before the GPUs?

[Trace]

As previously mentioned (too lazy to read through the thread, I think it was mentioned here,) the water will be within a few *C at all points in the loop.

[x88x]

Sandwiching works, just make sure you have powerful fans on each level. Also, if you run them in parallel, make sure that they're both rads designed to be run in parallel, otherwise you might not get optimal flow through both.

[Kayin]

That was my block pics, by the way.

http://www.swiftnets.com/ There's instructions on how to run stackable radiators. I would run a stack internally and at least one extra 3x120 externally, possibly another stack there as well.

The issue at hand is the sheer heat dump of the setup at hand, which easily exceeds even the hottest of systems I have assembled (i7 860/2 HD4870x2) when both are at full load.

Alternatively, if you're looking for mostly quiet, and great temps, you could pony up for a Hailea chiller, forget the rads and res, just run blocks a pump, and tubing and plug the chiller into the loop for the rads. It's an expensive solution, but it'll get you temps nothing else will.

[Luke122]

See? I told you these guys know their stuff. :D

I'm stoked to help build this monster!

[Oneslowz28]

That was your block kayin? Please post those pics again. Maybe we should start a WC FAIL thread and post pics of clogged blocks from Fesser fluid, galvonic corrosion from mixed metals and the damage from reusing worn tubing.

As for stacking rads, It will work fine as long as you have the airflow to back it.

[Kayin]

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v310/KayinStorm/080.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v310/KayinStorm/079.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v310/KayinStorm/077.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v310/KayinStorm/078.jpg

There wasn't really an aluminum top left to shoot. Those are gold plated, BTW, and will never work right again. Be wise, kids.

[Spawn-Inc]

Koolance nickel plates their water-blocks which prevents galvanic corrosion...that's why it's fine for them to mix metals.
That Exos-2 V2 will work with a plated copper block, otherwise, a copper-core rad is necessary to keep the APOGEE XT.

if there is any size scratch in the plating, it will corrode the same with out. there is a reason why koolance has smartened up and stopped making aluminum rads. they still sell the stupid exos, but they are even starting to fix that, starting with their ERM 2K3U as posted above. though they still enjoy fudging there numbers to make it look better.




There wasn't really an aluminum top left to shoot. Those are gold plated, BTW, and will never work right again. Be wise, kids.

nice, though i did send Oneslowz some other pics of a koolance block that had a hole in the side of it.

[Oneslowz28]

I had not seen those pics Kayin. That does put a second X on my Koolance Score Card though.

The block that I was talking about was sent to me by spawn. The Nickel coating had been scratched and a whole had been eaten clean through the side of the block and water flowed out like a waterfall.

[mDust]

The Nickel coating had been scratched and a whole had been eaten clean through the side of the block and water flowed out like a waterfall.

Geez!

How does one go about scratching the inside of a water-block though? Sounds like a bit of mischief to me...:D

[Spawn-Inc]

Geez!

How does one go about scratching the inside of a water-block though? Sounds like a bit of mischief to me...:D
if the top was nickel plated it could easily get scratched by just screwing in the barb or compression. i'm willing to bet that's what happened to half of the GTX blocks swiftech came out with way back when.

[Canadian Psycho]

wow, that is crazy, defidently not gona go mixed metal anything.

[mDust]

if the top was nickel plated it could easily get scratched by just screwing in the barb or compression. i'm willing to bet that's what happened to half of the GTX blocks swiftech came out with way back when.

My current cpu block is a 3-4 year old GTX. It has a double plated aluminum top with a copper base. It's got no scratches in the plating at all. I actually just had it out the other day to fix a leak and decided to open it up for possible maintenance. The copper is still as shiny as the day I got it. It's apparently still under warranty as well! I never would have guessed that...


* The housing is CNC machined out of billet aluminum and receives two plating's for a lifetime protection against corrosion: electroless nickel plating (MIL-C-26074E grade B) and Zinc Cobalt plating (ASTM B 840-99 grade 6). A black die is applied after plating strictly for cosmetic appeal.
* The housing is supported by a 5 year limited(*) warranty.

http://www.swiftnets.com/products/apogeegtx.asp

[Spawn-Inc]

wow, that is crazy, defidently not gona go mixed metal anything.

just a note you can mix the following metals with no issues,

copper, brass, gold, nickel, silver, chrome, quality stainless steel.


so basically just avoid aluminum in your loop in ANY form. plated, anodized, etc.

EDIT: nice, though there is always a bunch that are unaffected. the boys 4rm oz had his gtx corrode up,
http://www.thebestcasescenario.com/forum/showthread.php?t=17770&highlight=gtx

[Oneslowz28]

IMO I would get either Danger Den's TDX-MC or a Heatkiller. Both will more than adequately cool your PC.

[Kayin]

The current top is either the new Aqua-Computer block or the EK-Supreme HF.

Now as to Koolance. These pics are a learning time for the company. They wised up, and I think Koolance full-covers are an excellent value for the money now. Their materials and methods have changed, and they're doing so much better now... They say the measure of a man is how he handles his mistakes, and as a company they've done damn well. Besides, I think I still know Tim there...