MSI's LOOC Competition Ends with Accusations of Cheating...

[Kayin]

http://www.madshrimps.be/vbulletin/f22/latest-trend-selling-benchmark-scores-futuremark-catches-cheaters-msi-oc-contest-73598/

http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/showthread.php?t=254437

As more of us choose to extreme bench, this is relevant. I actually know some of the people involved in this. Buying benches, that's just kinda low. Trace, don't go selling yours, or you'll end up like this...

[NightrainSrt4]

I had been seeing some posts referring to this around on different forums. Just stupid. But competitions just seem to draw people who will cheat to win. Just another thing about people in general that I can't stand.

[Trace]

Kayin, don't tempt me!

I wouldn't do that anyway :P

[Oneslowz28]

It's a bad bad week/month for the PC community. Intel announces they are locking all but their extreme chips, Petras is bought by Sidewinder and then SWC shats on many coustomers, Then this. What happened to honesty among friends?

[slaveofconvention]

I wouldn't worry too much about the intel announcement. I get the feeling that if the PR dept at AMD has any clue at all, they'll announce that they will NOT be doing the same. When intel sales drop, and AMD rise, intel will soon backtrack on this....

[SXRguyinMA]

WTF would they lock their procs? makes no sense

[slaveofconvention]

To try to make people buy bigger more expensive higher margin high end processors instead of tweaking and overclocking the lower end stuff to get the better performance...

[SXRguyinMA]

ahhh ok. makes sense

[slaveofconvention]

ahhh ok. makes sense

Occasionally I manage to make sense. Course that doesn't mean much. Even a broken watch gets it right twice a day....

[Mach]

It's a bad bad week/month for the PC community. Intel announces they are locking all but their extreme chips, Petras is bought by Sidewinder and then SWC shats on many coustomers, Then this. What happened to honesty among friends?

Granted there is an abundance of silliness going on now but how did SWC take it out on many customers?

[Oneslowz28]

Actually Mach that is just a generalization from several threads I have read on a few forums. I have no personal experience with SWC. What I do know is that several of the big hitters in the modding / OC community who were loyal SWC customers are no longer affiliating themselves with SWC.

[crenn]

It's a bad bad week/month for the PC community. Intel announces they are locking all but their extreme chips
If you're talking about this:
http://www.bit-tech.net/news/hardware/2010/07/22/intel-to-limit-sandy-bridge-overclocking/1
Then I don't see the huge fuss. The normal consumer market has limited overclocking potential yes, but it's also cheaper to produce since everything needed including the base clock is included.

Additionally is the fact not ALL of their high end products are extreme chips. The next variant will be directly targetted for the enthusiast market. And don't have a base clock integrated for all your overclocking needs.... although frankly now a days, overclocking is a touch overrated as majority of newer CPUs aren't exactly slow. CPUs are getting more efficient in each generation. Clock speed is important, but does it really need a boost from stock? Not really.

[Kayin]

There's what I know and what I can say, but I'll say that Alex didn't seem too happy about the particulars of the merger. I've not bought from them since (though I've gone through a horror story with PPCs) so I can't say what past that.

I do have more info, including why the selection is so limited, but a lot of it is conjecture and such right now. I've a hell of a lot of info on the whole thing (I've Alex's personal number, as well as Gary and Joel as I used to have a lot more communication with all three) but it's not my info to hand out or my liberty to say. Besides, I could draw a bad conclusion. And that would look even worse.

[Mach]

Actually Mach that is just a generalization from several threads I have read on a few forums. I have no personal experience with SWC. What I do know is that several of the big hitters in the modding / OC community who were loyal SWC customers are no longer affiliating themselves with SWC.

Gotcha, yeah I've lurked through part of the soap opera on a few forums. Meh, my life gives me more than enough drama without looking for it online. That's why I have a hobby in the first place, to get away from the drama. :)

My experiences with Gary at SWC were exceptionally positive. He went out of his way to give me advice and help a water cooling noob. I'll order from him again and would recommend SWC.

[Oneslowz28]

I just read through both threads linked and a few other one on various sites. This is truly a sad thing for the community as it will only make things harder for the non cheaters. I deal with the people who hand out the ES and RS and Sponsorships every day. I can say that they are rethinking how they qualify someone for sponsorship now. All it took was a few bad apples to ruin it for everyone. The good thing is that this has been brought to light and it somewhat levels the playing feild. The one who once seemed untouchable has now fell and that has opened up the top spot for honest people.

In the end I doubt this is the last we see of cheating in the community. With hardware growing more expensive every day and cash prizes increasing with every competition, the temptation to cheat or fudge the results will be too great for some to suppress. The only solution I see to this, is to enforce a perminate ban for anyone caught cheating, even in the slightest. There needs to be set standards and the benchmarking programs need to be 100% un-exploitable. If someone can go into the registry and change numbers or write a script that will report false results there can never be 100% certainty in any of the results.

Some say that overclocking for prizes will now slowly fade away. I seriously doubt that as overclocking sells product. It's as simple as that. Enthusiast love knowing the hardware they have is capable of 6GHz or can produce 90k PPD. Even if we do not overclock, we still buy unlocked chips, high end boards, and a certain GPU because someone was able to get slightly higher numbers with it over the next model, even though 4 models lower will still run every game out.

[NightrainSrt4]

And with software nothing is ever un-exploitable, unless benefits do not outweigh the cost and energy to do so.

As for the Intel thing, shrug. They've been saying similar things for generations. I remember similar talks going back to the Pentium D. If they do it on most cpu's, then they need to price the enthusiast overclocking ones like they currently have been doing the K series, or people will just go back with AMD. But in the end, we are such a small niche it won't matter too much to Intel anyway.

No point in having $300 motherboards if the main selling feature is gone (not that I ever bought one of those anyway).

[Luthien]

I hate to say it, but as long as there are competitions, there will be cheaters. The majority of people may be honest but there will always be at least one person who would rather cheat than actually do the work required to win. People caught cheating should be banned from future competitions. As for those of you out there who compete: whether you win or lose, be proud that you actually did the work and didn't resort to cheating.

[Oneslowz28]

http://techpowerup.com/127352/Heads_Roll_in_Lords_of_Overclocking_Competition_Ch eating_Scandal.html

[NightrainSrt4]

It doesn't matter if he made money or not. His actions caused legitimate overclockers to be knocked out of the running. You can't pad the top ranks with your buddies just because you can score well.

He deserves every ban he gets in my opinion. Yes it was probably just a bunch of stupid young people making stupid mistakes, but that doesn't mean there shouldn't be consequences.

[Oneslowz28]

I agree, and honestly I think he should be exiled from every on line PC community as well as perma banned from any and all events, comps and shows. Andre got tens of thousands in sponsored gear. He cheated the system and it cost legitimate people sponsorships and gear. There is no excuse for any of the offenders actions. One said he cheated so he could visit a friend in Taipe, Another said he cheated because he was unable to afford the hardware he needed. These excuses are just that. In the end all of them should suffer the same penalty as Andre.

[Kayin]

I have a bit more perspective on this than most.

I did EXTREME overclocking for a while. I hold the record for the Shuttle AN35N Ultra (250FSB 1:1 with a hard Vcore mod) and had a DFI Infinity that I ran over 260FSB in the AXP days. At the start of 939, I had chips that tagged 3GHz on water.

About that time, sponsored OCers came about, and I never could compete with those pocketbooks. I left, and while I can still clock really well, I'm not playing the "spend my disability check on hardware just to beat Trace" game. I'm still not truly out of n+1 syndrome, but I'm getting better.

[Trace]

<3 you too Kayin, <3 you too.

Let's hope TBCS can get overclock sponsers!

[Kayin]

I have the knowledge, but not the budget to hand your tail to you. That said, I don't see it as a contest. If one person beats the record, we all rejoice in my book. If I can lend you some knowledge (and prerelease products) and get you there, we all win. I lost my pride in that area long ago, rather choosing the long view.

BTW, Trace, LMK what you need from me those two days.

[Trace]

Please, be on hand on MSN or something for assistance and advice. I wish to learn!

[Kayin]

I'll figure out what I can do and let you know accordingly.

[Trace]

Thanks!

[DaveW]

"Always two, there are. No more, no less. A master, and an apprentice."

-Dave

[Kayin]

So do you expect Trace to up and slay me?

[Trace]

:p