All-in-one pc?

[davbren]

Hey all,
I'm soooooooooo pleased I found this forum. I was wondering if you could help. I'm trying to design an all in one pc. I spooose its a bit imac-esque. So does anyone have any ideas on how to go about this?

I was thinking maybe using a laptop motherboard as that has better onboard graphics than a standard desktop motherboard. Although that doesn't give me the expansion for later additions.

Also there is the issue of space. It would be good to keep this pretty sleek.

Cheers.
Dave

[FuzzyPlushroom]

If you don't need a whole lot of power out of it, I'd look at something Atom-based with onboard GeForce 9400 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nvidia_Ion) - not a lot of CPU grunt, mind, but adequate for DVD playback, music, Web surfing, and such, especially with a dual-core processor. I know Zotac makes 'em in an ITX form factor (17cm/6.7 inches square); I'm not sure about any other companies.

That, mounted to the back of an LCD monitor (it'd be ideal if you could locate a short DVI cable) would get you easily halfway there. If you're willing to deal with another inch/couple centimetres in height/depth, you could always add a PCIE x16 video card (or anything you want, really) to some ITX 'boards. If you really need more kick, you can find 'em in Socket AM3/775/1156 form as well, but then you'd likely require a taller heatsink.

Regardless, you'd want a 2.5" laptop HDD/SSD, a laptop optical drive (if any at all), possibly an inline plugpack and DC-DC PSU... What do you want to use this machine for?

[davbren]

I think an Atom would be waaay too slow. I was thinking of using this as my creative hub. So a bit of programming, a bit of drawing, a bit of 3d graphics, and a bit of web design. I don't think an Atom would cut it. I would like it to have some grunt and more importantly a bit of longevity.

I understand this is a complex build and it doesn't have to be the creme de la cream.

Oh, and it needs to be quiet lol.

Cheers,
Dave.

[mDust]

Do you have a monitor with VESA mounting holes in the back?
Are you able to do some light modifications?

I thought about getting a 25-30" monitor and mounting a piece of acrylic to the VESA holes on the back. Then mounting a motherboard and the other components to the acrylic.

[davbren]

yh I was planning the make the whole thing, case and all. So I can take the monitor apart. i want the most integrated look i can get.

[davbren]

oh yh and yes it has vesa mounts

[Diamon]

Make it air tight and fill it with oil for better heat dissipation? ^^

[mDust]

Make it air tight and fill it with oil for better heat dissipation? ^^

HAHA! I like the way you think! Though putting oil in a monitor is probably not a good idea.


yh I was planning the make the whole thing, case and all. So I can take the monitor apart. i want the most integrated look i can get. You don't really need to take the monitor apart to do something like this. Just mount a sheet of acrylic on the VESA holes and put motherboard standoffs on the opposite side. Everything else can be mounted to that one sheet. You can cover it however you want. I'd just shape-to-fit some more acrylic and paint the monitor and 'cover' to match.

[davbren]

hmm I spose I could leave the monitor case on but wouldn't that take up more room?

[mDust]

hmm I spose I could leave the monitor case on but wouldn't that take up more room?

It shouldn't. Perhaps I'm just not understanding what you mean. Can you post a pic of it?

[Luke122]

*sniff, sob*

This is making me wish I could finish Zero...

[davbren]

I can't post pics coz I don't have the components. Ideally I'd like to make the whole thing from wood, but I'm not sure how viable that is. Aluminium would be amazing but i think it'll be costly.

[Diamon]

Though putting oil in a monitor is probably not a good idea.


Pessimist -_-

[Diamon]

I can't post pics coz I don't have the components. Ideally I'd like to make the whole thing from wood, but I'm not sure how viable that is. Aluminium would be amazing but i think it'll be costly.

Wood probably isn't any good if you have a limited space. Aluminium is much much harder compared to its weight. And is it really that pricy? Dunno about your budget though.

You could always rob a recycling plant and melt it down to the sheets you need tho ^^

[slaveofconvention]

Your choice of materials should be based more on what you're used to/capable of working with - things like already having the right tools will save you a LOT more than one material over another. There's no point in going with a cheaper material if you're going to end up spending more than you save on the tools you'll need. There's no reason you have to stick with just one material either. If you like the look of, and are confident with wood, you can always go with a wooden case, with an alu frame. That'll give you the look you want and still retain some strength.

This might sound cheesy, but prototype.... Get a pile of old cardboard and make full size models of a DVD drive, hard drive, motherboard, monitor etc, and then you can mess with them until you get them to fit right. You'll end up with something as small as possible but still have enough room for everything you need....

It's a starting point, if nothing else....

[mDust]

Pessimist -_-

:D

Prototyping is a good idea. (EDIT: Nay, an excellent idea!) Although I do it digitally most of the time, it makes everything easier in the long run.

[Diamon]

If you have any knowledge in creating blueprints that's a huge help. Especially in 3D programs such as SolidWorks and google sketchup.

[davbren]

Yh I may well have to prototype. I have very little experience blueprinting. I have used a couple of cad and 3ds-maxy programs before but for nothing more than fun.

There are pros and cons to every approach. I though about using a Studio 17 mobo as that would give me a great power to space ratio. But the mobo is obviously limited by what can be attached. If I used a regular mobo, I can put anything I want on it at the cost of space. This obviously changes the way I think about boxing it all up. Imho slimmer is better. I was, however, hoping to stick two hdds in there which I don't think will be possible on a laptop motherboard.

Another advantage of a laptop motherboard is the power supply. Gah! Its all so complex!

I'll have another think...

[Diamon]

Unless you're rolling with an SSD one hdd should be enough. You could even partition it so it looks like 2 HDD's in the OS ^^

And I remember seeing some really tiny PSU's linked here on the forum a while ago, maybe someone with a better memory can re-link em.

[davbren]

I did plan on separating the OS's on different drive. I've got nothing against partitioning.

Do you remember what the power was like with the tiny PSUs?

[Diamon]

The one I saw was 125W but I'm sure there's some beefier versions of it.

[billygoat333]

http://www.logicsupply.com/categories/power_supplies/power_kits

there are these...

just google pico PSUs for a more broad look.

[davbren]

I see. So I could potentially use two, one for the graphics card and another for the rest of the system.

I think that might work.

I'll find out the power consumption numbers of the components to see if it'll work.

[Luke122]

Why not look into a low power GPU? There are plenty of powerful options out there that dont require supplemental power (powered through the pci-e slot). They tend to be decently priced too.. plus run cooler. :D

[x88x]

Depending on what kind of graphical power you need and what your budget is, this could prove an interesting part set:

3.5" industrial form factor Socket P (mobile C2D/Q) MBB:
http://www.logicsupply.com/products/keex_4030

ATI FirePro 2450 (most powerful card I could find that would work with the PCIe x4 slot on the MBB):
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814195085

[davbren]

hmm, looks good. I was hoping for something beefier. maybe i5 with a beffier graphics card. It would be great if I can find a diddy mobo like that thats beefier. I'll have a look on linitx and overclockers.

[Konrad]

Ah, I know it's a shameful question, entirely against the spirit of modding ...

But I have to ask the OP: why not just get a laptop? Or at least use a laptop as your modding platform?

[davbren]

I have a laptop lol. I have thought about a laptop mobo for the basis, its not a bad idea. But then I'm limiting myself for the hardware like multiple hardrives and EPIC RAM(thats a technical term :D)

I maybe hoped to get an Alienware m17 mobo, but they are way too pricey considering I can get a decent enough desktop mobo for about £50 instead of £200.

[davbren]

Ok so If I use a standard graphics card, is there anyway I can mount it flat, adjacent to the motherboard?

The raisers that I have found all put the graphics card across the top of the cpu which is obviously not good.

[Konrad]

Risers are available in different heights and for both orientations. You might have to look at the stuff intended for rack-server blades instead of "consumer" PCs.

[x88x]

What you want is a flexible riser. Basically, instead of a single PCB it's two PCBs joined by a ribbon cable.

[Konrad]

Perhaps fab your own riser? For example, salvage a card (cut off PCB connector edge) and a socket (from another mobo) and maybe some ribbon, then solder all those connects ...

Might be too "ugly" for this project, but possibly your only realistic option. You don't want to add latency/errors to signal timing with excessive connector lengths, though that might not be an issue.

[x88x]

Here:
http://www.google.com/products?hl=en&q=pci-express+flex+riser&um=1&ie=UTF-8&ei=4y5zTMnmF4O88gbZurHuDA&sa=X&oi=product_result_group&ct=title&resnum=3&ved=0CDgQrQQwAg

You can get one for ~$30-40, and personally I would go that route instead of trying to make your own...not worth the time it would take to solder all those connections.

[msmrx57]

You can get one for ~$30-40, and personally I would go that route instead of trying to make your own...not worth the time it would take to solder all those connections.

Unless you're broke and don't mind soldering. Just sayin:whistler:, because I am that kind of cheap bastard.

[Konrad]

...not worth the time it would take to solder all those connections.
:eek:

Blasphemer! It's always worth the time to solder all the connections.

(Although I suppose I do agree with what you're saying, in principle, x88x, that would be a lot of time/work to improvise a $30 part)

[x88x]

Hahaha, hey, if it's a choice between cutting up a PCIe card and MBB, then soldering either 64 or 96 small connections, 3 of which would involve sanding the enamel off a PCB...or buying a $30 part...well, let's just say unless making the riser was the end goal instead of the means to an end I might do it, but otherwise I'd just buy the part. :P

[davbren]

Yh I'm pretty sure I'm gonna buy the part... hehehe

Thanks so much for the help guys.

I don't mind the insides being hacky and ugly, this is about the outside of the case. I just need to make sure that everything is as tidy as possible. I'm currently looking at http://www.beyondinfinite.com for an lcd for hte system. Hopefully I can get one that has minimal BS attached to it.

I couldn't believe it, I was looking up lcds to take apart and someof them had a depth of 8" (obviously with the casing) but still I want mine to be less than that.

[Konrad]

"hte system" ?

[davbren]

the system*

[davbren]

Ok so I found a suitable monitor. The problem is that a) its a massive 30" b) its expensive $700 and c) I'd have to buy two. So perhaps its not so suitable. It's the same panel that apple uses in their Cinema HD screens though :( I'm really struggling to get this monitor. its bloody annoying. The rest of the components are pretty much set I think.

I was sniped on ebay to a 24" acer lcd which woulda been perfect. £155 too! gah! Does anyone have any idea where I can get an affordable screen from with a 1920x1200 res?

[Konrad]

eBay, craiglist, pawn shop, local auction, local recycler, family; you can get broken ones at low prices, provided you're able to fix them of course.

[x88x]

/\ This. You're not gonna find a 1920x1200 display under ~$200-250USD anymore now that everyone is going over to 16:9 panels. You could find a pretty cheap (ie, ~$150USD, iirc) 1920x1080 panel if you're willing to compromise.

If you do get the 30" panels, make sure you have at least a mid-range GPU in it. Running dual 2560x1600 displays really puts pressure on a GPU, no matter what you're doing on it. The biggest problem is that most cards on the market atm are designed with a max resolution per display of 2560x1600, and in turn, the frame buffers are designed with that as the max...so running dual displays at 2560x1600 you're really at the limit of what it can do. Also, if you do anything with OpenGL, I found out recently that it has a max display width of 2048 pixels....anything wider than that and weird stuff happens (artifacts, stuff doesn't display, etc).

[Konrad]

1920x1080 is a compromise? Works well enough for me, lol

[x88x]

1920x1080 is a compromise? Works well enough for me, lol

It works fine for me too, but I know a lot of people who simply refuse to use a 16:9 monitor. *shrugs*

[Konrad]

I'd go with pawn shop ... as long as you can test the unit and negotiate a little (not usually my thing but it's expected and saves you money, easier to do if you just pay cash up front) and can get a receipt (hopefully with a short-term return-if-defective promise) ... it's all good. Every miniscule scratch on the plastics will save you ten bucks, pick a big battered working beast and take it home to mod out imperfections.

[davbren]

I only think 1920x1080 is a compromise because I'm on 1440x900 currently on a 19". So I'm only gaining 180px for 5" it doesn't seem right. Maybe thats just what I'll have to do though.

Whaddya think?

[Konrad]

I think whatever you think is best, lol.

I personally prefer 22-24" widescreens myself, having a pair of LG 23s. They initially seemed huge and cumbersome and took a while to get comfortable with ... now anything smaller just seems wimpy and frustrating.

It's all your preference, but I'd say a single up-to-30" wide is fine (bigger is better, to a limit). Don't go bigger than maybe 20" wide for multi monitors, unless at least one is locked into portrait. You'll probably get different opinions from everybody you ask.

My two screens take up all the space on my desk, though. There's not even enough room to put much more than a coffee cup and paper notepad (my laptop sits on a nearby chair when I'm using both computers). Also, the combined brightness of both these screens can sometimes fry your eyeballs and make it seem like you're suntanning.

Had I thought about these issues before then I would've purchased somewhat smaller screens.

[davbren]

Hmmm yh all very good points.I found a 24" panel for £35 which seems like a good price. The problem is that it doesn't have the inverter and what not. Do you know where I can get these parts? Also, do you have any idea on how much the full set will cost?

As far as I can fathom, an lcd needs an inverter, controller board and a power supply. Is this correct?

[Konrad]

I'm unsure ... inverters are used to convert DC voltages to AC waveforms, so I can't really see why a display would need one unless it's expected to share a DC power supply with something else. Most monitors I've ever seen will plug into an AC wall receptacle; if they need AC power levels or frequencies that are different from mains power, then they'd would use transformers or switching power supplies or embedded microcontrollers running pulse modulation methods. In any case - I would expect these sorts of parts would normally be integrated into the appliance (as an internal power supply), especially since displays typically need a fair amount of RFI/EMI shielding to pass regulatory standards; if an inverter (or something else) is misssing then maybe somebody's taken the thing apart. If the owner has identified this one particular part as missing or bad then why hasn't he repaired or replaced it so he could sell the fully working display at a much higher price?

I think what you found might just be a replacement LCD panel. Usually the most expensive single part of a monitor, but not able to function without a ton of other electronics. If that's the case then you could use it to build your own monitor from scratch (it would be an involved electronics project) or buy all the other components (or a compatible monitor with a dead panel) ... any way you approach it it will probably end up costing more than just buying a complete working monitor instead. Repairing a dead monitor can be cost effective if you know how and if you only have to replace some cheap parts.

You could hunt around with the model number, get the specs, and see what the full unit originally came with or what compatible parts are available to replace any missing components.

I wouldn't personally buy a used display unless it was demonstrated to be fully working. It could suffer from any number of problems. It might even work perfectly but not look all that great as it's faded and aged over the years.
For that matter, I wouldn't buy a new one unless I could see exactly what it looked like while working, ideally to compare it against any other working models nearby.

Your find might still be a good deal. Apparently your £35 is worth about $50, an excellent price for a 24". I almost wonder if you've actually found a 2.4" display unit, lol. I don't know how much more you'll need to spend to make it work. Brand and Model #?

[davbren]

Thanks very much for the advice. You're right in saying that it is a replacement panel. Its made very clear that it is so in the advert. It is marked as in perfect working order as it is brand new and not at all refurbished. I'm trying to find the components needed to get this to work but I'm struggling as I'm not really sure what it needs. I don't think it would require much electronics work as it all seems pretty straight forward i.e. plug this here and plug this there.

I've watched some disassembly vids for other monitors and it looks easy (I'm sure it probably isn't) I just need to find the right parts. I'm a bit wary that the parts may indeed be much more expensive than firs thought so would end up spending more than if I bought an off the shelf model with maybe a 1080p screen and not the 1200 of this panel.

On a slightly different note, I bought an Acer Revo keyboard for my build. It's so pretty! 8)

[Konrad]

If that's the path you want to try then you'll need a lot of parts, some being;
- power supply module or board
- main logic board
- auxilliary electronics and logic boards
- audio system (if any)
- chassis and EM cages/shielding parts
- exterior plastics
- misc hardware: fasteners, bus blocks, wires, internal and external connectors, etc
- service manual and schematics (sometimes unavailable or very expensive)

It would be an involved project and likely require some soldering and some metalwork and lots of connector-making. You also wouldn't have the same diagnostic and calibration tools used at the factory. You might suffer from problems caused by firmware incompatibilities. Without having another identical unit working nearby you wouldn't be able to know what many parameters or test values should be.

Shopping for a monitor with a broken panel and a compatible replacement panel is a much more viable option. Sometimes the cost of both purchases is lower than a new monitor; the owner of the dead monitor just can't/won't do the repair himself. You'd have to consider all shipping costs, taxes, duties, etc in the final prices.

The particular panel you've found (like many others) might be compatible with all the monitors/televisions within a family, or even with several different families carried across multiple brands. You'd have to research, sometimes the panel vendors have already done so and advertise which units each panel can be used in.

Final notes ... LCD panels are big business; most panel makers and vendors comply with a voluntary quality-grading system (rated from A+ to F, look it up for specifics). Panel manufacturing is sort of like processor manufacturing, low yields on perfect parts, always some number of parts with flaws of varying degree. Chances are you can find any number of panel suppliers or even buy particular pieces from Asian trading companies. I've done it myself many times with small (PDA/phone) panels; these guys spam their contact info all over related forums and eBay so you'll probably find them listed at monitor forums. You'll often need to pay a small premium to ensure a panel is a higher grade (fewer imperfections or defects); be sure to clarify your quality grade (if none is specified you'll get shipped the lowest grade working part in stock, typically C+/C/C-); the price difference for a new A+ part (brightest backlight, best colour and clarity, no swim/blur/haze/noise, fewest bad pixels, etc) should be about around +10-15% in single-piece volume; buying C-graded parts isn't worth saving a few bucks (you'll stare at your display a lot and hate it), and D-graded parts don't work (by definition) regardless of cost savings (they're only commodities to LCD repair/refurb companies). Incidentally, refurb units comply with the same grading system, they're perfectly fine (sometimes even better than new) and tend to cost less.

A point of interest is that most OEMs use C-grade (or sometimes B-grade) displays in their laptops/etc because the premium for A-grades becomes a real price hit when ordering high volumes (that's why all OEMs implement crappy dead-pixel policies; they are able to offer better panel grades at the same price only once the process for making the particular panel type matures and greater yields are consistently available). Sort of like an OEM who would order a 10K volume of i7 parts which all have to perform at 5GHz ... it can be done but only at staggering cost so most OEMs will accept any i7 they can get (and, in this example, traders would select and grade the i7 parts so they could charge a premium for the best ones ... maybe RAM or GPU parts would serve as better examples). So replacing your own panel will usually be the only way to get the best display unless you order an extremely expensive machine from a company like XoticPC (which claims to use only A+ panels).

Finally, beware that some LCDs are just the bare panel, some are the panel+electrical grid (with or without backlight), some are complete modules or subassemblies with touchscreens or whatever ... you need to be certain you buy the correct part for your monitor project.

[davbren]

Dude if I could rep you I would!
cheers for that information. It's helped me a great deal.

[x88x]

Agreed with Konrad...while it is possible to build a panel from pieces, it will almost always cost significantly more than buying a whole monitor. If you have a limited budget, I would recommend looking for used monitors.

[davbren]

Ok fair enough. I'm convinced. In that case I have found a damaged Dell 3008 but I can't seem to find replacement parts for it. DIs there a Dell parts reseller that anyone knows of?

[Konrad]

This (http://tinyurl.com/36n75dl) is a good starting point. Or try eBay shops or your local computer shops (wherever you live).

[davbren]

Can't believe I fell for that...lol

[Konrad]

Mwoohahaa, victory is mine!

Sorry, I couldn't resist. No insult intended, lol

[davbren]

Nah its ok I deserved it! lol

I had looked on google, but there dont appear to be many options out there for that screen. Here in the UK we have a tech pawn shop called cex (i think its consumer electronics exchange) hey have some options like the Acer X243W. Seems a good spec'ed lcd but hasn't go the best user reviews. Seems to fail alot. That would be bad considering I'll be seriously voiding the warranty. Oh and its only VGA which in reality isn't that much of an issue. Also the one the have is B grade. They have an A grade lcd there too but it needs to be picked up rather than shipped to me. :(

[Konrad]

You've also got Maplin (http://www.maplin.co.uk/), an uber electronics store which often makes me drool (impotently, since they won't ship to Canada).

And you've got iPAQ Repair & Parts (http://www.ipaqrepair.co.uk/), whom I've happily dealt with many times in the past. Don't let the company name fool you because they'll service pretty much any kind of mobile device or computer you can name. Um, including Dell 3008 I imagine. :whistler:

Most of the LCD action is of course in China (mostly in Shenzhen Guangdong, where almost half the display panels in the world are made), Taiwan (where the other half are made), and Hong Kong (where they're all purchased, sold, and traded by greedy unregulated tech-savvy merchants). If you're picky about your part then foreign shipping is usually unavoidable. I've had perfect success with several vendors and was only displeased with one (they sent a panel that was clearly inferior to the agreed grade, returned/replaced but I lost out on two-way shipping charges); I recommend you try LCD123 (http://lcd123.en.ec21.com/) (now called Zetrax, apparently). If you're not in a hurry you can sit on auctions or casually snipe out awesome deals as you see them. You'll have to get used to email exchanges with eager traders who're willing to do any wheeling & dealing they can with their competitors to get your single-piece-single-order business. Their bad English (and, I assume, your bad Chinese) aren't really an issue since the important details are the part numbers and prices which everybody can read. Don't go off what's advertised on their websites because they will obtain any specific panel part you can ask for by name. I assume that the dirt-cheap prices they give customers in North America & Europe are still megaprofit opportunities in their world, their service and pricing put western OEMs to shame.

[x88x]

The 3008 is a nice monitor, but unfortunately fairly rare, so you might have a harder time finding the needed parts. Do you know what specific parts are bad? If you open it up and look for the specific part numbers instead of, say, 'lcd panel for Dell 3008', you' have a lot better luck.

[davbren]

Ok so I went for an Acer. Its hardly top of the range but its got the resolution and the brightness i was after. Thanks for all your help guys. So... thats the visuals out the way, I have my keyboard too. Next stop motherboard...question mark?

[Konrad]

#1 advice - You should always prefer 1st-tier mobo brands.
#2 advice - You should never buy into the OEM mobo trap (IBM, HP/Compaq, Dell, etc - support is only provided by the OEM, not by the actual manufacturer, Intel/etc)

For Intel - best mobos made by ASUS, Intel; good mobos made by Gigabyte, MSI
For AMD - best mobos made by ASUS, Gigabyte; good mobos made by ASRock, MSI, Biostar

Mobos made by ABIT, Aten, EPOX are sometimes worth looking at because (to compete in the PC enthusiast market niche) they include all sorts of wonderful OC-friendly technologies. Still, they generally don't do much that the big boards can't already do.

Mobos made by ECS/Elitegroup, PCChips, DFI are considered low-end garbage and very unpopular.

Some of these recommendations are based on my personal preferences, no doubt you'll get many different opinions. It never hurts to spend a little time doing your own research on mobo reviews and product comparisons. This is especially true if you plan to overclock, since not all mobos support OC-friendly BIOS firmware.

Don't be prejudiced against Made in Taiwan "junk" because over 99.9% of all PC mobos are in fact Made in Taiwan (regardless of brand, regardless of label).

A simple guideline on how to pick your mobo:
pick your price
Anything above your maximum price limit is automatically ruled out
If you're planning on only shopping locally (instead of online) then your choices will be limited to whatever products your local vendors have available, simplifying your options.
pick the processor you want
This will determine which processor socket you need
Intel iCore (i3, i5, i7) are current, along with their Celeron counterparts
Intel Dual-/Quad-cores and P4s are dying, anything older is obsolete
AMD Phenom II and Athlon II are current
AMD Phenom, Athlon, and Sempron are dying, anything older is obsolete
You probably don't want server products like Xeon and Opteron
Intel "Extreme Edition" and AMD "Black Edition" parts have unlocked multipliers; though there are still ways to overclock "locked" parts.
pick your mobo form factor (size)
This is almost always Micro-ATX (uATX) or even Full-ATX (if your chassis can hold it). Smaller/non-standard chassis sizes might require smaller mobo sizes. BTX is probably best avoided.
pick your chipset
This is much simplified once you've narrowed the choices down by processor socket
Note that AMD processors are usually (partly) compatible with earlier AM socket versions; you can't really go far wrong picking an AM3 or AM2+ mobo (unless you plan to use AMD's next generation of AM3+ tech, expected to market Q3-4/2011); Intel processors/sockets aren't interchangeable
Consider what hardware you have (or plan to get) for this mobo
Most current mobos support PCIe 2.x (with dual-16 or quad-8 lanes), SATA2, USB2, PCI, 10/100/GbLAN
Some support older IDE, USB1, legacy (PS/2), etc
Some support different lanes/slots/configurations for PCIe or PCI slots
Some add faster speed SATA3, USB3, etc
Any adapter/controller hardware you need (for extra HDDs, etc) should be mobo-integrated or you'll have to use extra PCIe/PCI cards
You might consider certain features (SATA3 speed, USB3, FireWire, for example) very important
Mobos can come with or without integrated graphics, audio, ethernet, etc - if you plan to use PCIe/PCI cards for (better) graphics, audio, etc then don't pay extra for mobo features you won't use
Consider the kind of RAM your mobo supports (usually DDR2 or DDR3); whether it can use your existing RAM, how much RAM you'll need/want, how fast it should be rated, and how much it will cost
Consider mobo PSU requirements, ie: what PSU you can reuse or need to purchase
In short, pick your budget, pick a processor, pick the features/compatibility that are important to you, then select from the mobos which support them.

I personally view chipsets made by SiS and ALi/ULi as junk. VIA and nForce chipsets aren't great either but are often the best (or only) options for Mini- and Pico-ATX form factors. Can't go wrong with Intel or AMD, though it might cost more.

I'm a bit of an Intel fanboy ... the extreme end is (currently) dominated by i7-980X processor on X58 mobo (i7-990X expected Q4/2010, P65 processor and X68 mobo expected Q2-3/2011). But AMD's top product is an X6-1090T-Black processor on 890FX mobo; I'm not sure what the benchmarks are but the AMD proc+mobo combo is probably at least 90% as good at less than 40% the total price for "stock" ratings, the Intel combo is unstoppable when overclocked.

If you're planning to buy older or used tech it's often more economical (and convenient) to purchase complete working systems. Purchasing OEM systems is often more economical than build-your-own, though you have to be careful to avoid being trapped by semi-proprietary OEM compatibility restrictions or loaded down with junk hardware/software you just don't want; the "hot selling" best features are always proudly advertised while specs for all the other (often minimal or inferior) components are carefully never mentioned. Upgrade options often turn out to be limited and more costly in the long run.

If you're budgeting a complete system build then don't forget to include the prices of any extra cables you may need to purchase (AC wall plug, IDE/SATA power and data cables, GPU-card power and bridge cables, USB cables, etc) and the price of any software you need to purchase (Windows OS, Office, etc), plus of course your keyboard/mouse.

[davbren]

I saw this http://www.ebuyer.com/product/225558?utm_source=google&utm_medium=products its an Intel Gigabyte An ok price, woulda liked a bit cheaper but I'm prepared to pay that. Its got enough clout i think.

Whats your opinion?

[x88x]

It looks like a decent MBB, and the miniITX size will be nice for your plans. Keep in mind though, that since it only has 2 RAM slots, if you want to hit its RAM max capacity of 8GB you'll have to use 4GB sticks, which are still quite expensive.



Most current mobos support PCIe 2.x (with dual-16 or quad-8 lanes)
Not that it matters in this specific case, but this is not correct. The majority of MBBs still only support a single 16-lane connection, and if they have another slot and another card is added they will either go 8/8 or sometimes 16/8 of 16/4. MBBs like the EVGA SR and SR-2 are the exception to this as they have an additional PCIe controller that gives them (iirc) 64 more lanes, enabling then to support up to 4x16 or 1x16+6x8.

[Konrad]

Your link pointed to Gigabyte GA-H55N-USB3, LGA1156, H55 Express
It looks like a good mobo, similar to a Gigabyte I used to have.

I would personally choose ASUS-P7H55-M, LGA1156, H55 Express (http://www.ebuyer.com/product/200985)

A close comparison shows that both mobos are based on the same processors and chipset, are OC-friendly, and generally very similar. Each has some nifty hardware, firmware, and software features which the other lacks. The Gigabyte might still turn out to be the better choice for your needs. I haven't found any reviews/benchmarks useful for direct comparison (both boards get good reviews and have excellent support, ASUS benchmark metrics are generally higher but not meaningful because of differing hardware configurations), but I would judge these mobos as basically equivalent.

Pros/Cons that struck me as important: (in rough order of importance)

At £63.43 the ASUS mobo costs £18.03 less (that's ~$30 to me)

ASUS mobo uses DDR3 2200*/2133/1866/1800/1600/1333/1066, up to 4 banks (16GB)
Gigabyte mobo uses DDR3 1666*/1333/1066/800, up to 2 banks (8GB)
(Gigabyte is clearly inferior here unless you already have 1 or 2 DDR3-800 sticks you plan to use; and if you do, I'd recommend seriously considering an upgrade to faster RAM)
* note it's best to match DDR3 pairs for dual-channel operation regardless of which mobo you choose, and you don't have to fill to full capacity (at initial purchase, or at any other time)
* note Windows OS may impose limits on maximum addressable RAM, anything above the limit is just wasted (integrated graphics might be able use of some of this wasted RAM if the BIOS allows it)
The best deals I saw are
Crucial 1GB DDR3-1333 CL9 (http://www.ebuyer.com/product/159922) £20.41, Kingston 1GB DDR3-1333 CL9 (http://www.ebuyer.com/product/169489) £20.87, Kingston HyperX 1GB DDR3-1333 CL7 (http://www.ebuyer.com/product/169288) £25.89, Kingston 2GB (2x1GB) DDR3-1333 CL9 (http://www.ebuyer.com/product/152979) £34.71, Extra Value 2GB DDR3-1333 CL9 (http://www.ebuyer.com/product/192047) £33.88, Extra Value 4GB (2x2GB) DDR3-1333 CL9 (http://www.ebuyer.com/product/192049) £55.48, Corsair 4GB DDR3-1333 CL9 (http://www.ebuyer.com/product/237100) £67.79; some of these DIMMs come with heat spreaders and you can order these (http://www.ebuyer.com/product/57103) at £0.75 each for the others. Anything much faster/larger than these starts getting costly, anything slower/smaller costs only a few pennies less and is not worth buying. I don't personally feel brand name matters (outside extreme performance RAM), but many people disagree.

ASUS mobo has PCIe 16/1/1, also 1 PCI slot
Gigabyte mobo only has PCIe 16
(The big PCIe slot gets filled up with one card, the usual assumption is that it's a GPU; the ASUS still has a few little slots empty for added expansion)
* note that if you don't use a PCIe GPU card on either mobo you'll have to be selective about which iCore you choose; specifically, one capable of Intel HD Graphics (currently i3-530/540, i5-670/661/660/650)

ASUS mobo supports 6 SATA2 and 2 PATA (UDMA-133/100)
Gigabyte mobo supports 4 SATA2 and 1 eSATA
(ASUS has compatibility with any old IDE HDDs you might have; I'll admit I don't really know what eSATA is but a variety of PCIe and USB adapters/controllers for eSATA appear to be available for < £30; Gigabyte would probably cost less if you really require eSATA, but ASUS can accept multiple PCIe eSATA cards)
* if you require support for many drives it would be more economical to upgrade to a mobo with more native drive controllers than to add numerous drive controller cards and accessories

ASUS mobo has 12 USB2.0/USB1.1 ports
Gigabyte mobo has 8 USB2.0/USB1.1 ports and 2 USB3.0/2.0 ports
(Do you need 8 or 12 USB2 ports? Do you need 2 USB3 ports? Consider ASUS has two slots which can each accept a 2-port USB3.0 PCIe card (http://www.ebuyer.com/product/200855); these cost £19.04 each but no need to buy unless/until you need USB3 later; or you can get one now and come out a bit ahead, view it as buying yourself a few minor mobo changes plus 4 more USB2 ports for an added £1.01 overall cost)

ASUS mobo has Realtec ALC887 (ALC889?) 8-channel High-Def audio
Gigabyte mobo has Realtec ALC892R 2/4/5.1/7.1-channel High-Def audio
(I'm not sure if high-end audio matters to you, and I'm not sure which of these is better, Gigabyte I suspect, maybe a lot better, maybe not, they're both fairly pretty good; either way, only the ASUS has slots for an audio card with superior sound)
[Edit: Detailed specs can be found at the Realtek site (http://218.210.127.131/products/productsView.aspx?Langid=1&PNid=24&PFid=28&Level=5&Conn=4).]

Again, the mobos use different GbLAN chips. I don't think there's any real functional difference.
(Again, only the ASUS can accept PCIe GbLAN expansion cards.)

ASUS mobo has D-Sub and HDMI outputs
Gigabyte mobo has D-Sub, HDMI, and DVI-D outputs
(Assuming your monitor accepts DVI-D but cannot accept D-Sub and HDMI, and assuming that you have the ASUS mobo, you can purchase a VGA-DVI or HDMI-DVI adapter for ~£6-7, just be careful to select the correct male/female end connectors)

IEEE1394 FireWire is common but not everybody uses it. Neither of these mobos has FireWire (though the ASUS can accept FireWire PCIe cards). I don't know if this is something you don't need or simply forgot.

I've been limiting my examples to your Ebuyer (UK) site, though of course there's many other places to shop.

[Konrad]

Not that it matters in this specific case, but this is not correct. The majority of MBBs still only support ...
Oops. You're right.

I'm used to X58 and 890FX mobos (and Socket 478 mobos, lol). I focus on mobos which support multi-CFX/SLI. I'd kind of just assumed and generalized above.

[davbren]

OK so after a lotta faffing they've finally shipped my monitor. It should be arriving in the next couple of days.

Click here for details... :-) (http://openerudition.blogspot.com)

[davbren]

Ok So yet another 24" on its way. Fingers crossed.

Also, judgin by the size of a mini-itx there should be plenty of room in there for everything. I'll let you all know whats what when the lcd arrives.