Business product question.

[BuzzKillington]

How does one take a product idea to a company to have the item made in mass quantities? Do I have to learn Chinese and travel across the world or...?

[Oneslowz28]

Well first you should patent it. Because with out one, there is nothing to stop that company from copying your product and selling it with out giving you a dime. Before that you should search patent records to see if anything remotely resembles it. Because if it does you can get sued for shopping it around.

Then when you are ready, you call all of the major manufacturers of the product type and instead of trying to sell the product yourself, you license it to them for a fee+ royalties on every unit sold.

[knowledgegranted]

1. If you need a translator, I speak Chinese

2. From my experience, it all depends on the product, but there are American advisors based here in the US that are highered to help with Chinese manufacturing processes

3. To get really technical, request a sample from two different factories, and compare quality

[BuzzKillington]

What kind of service would this be considered? Like... what should I be googling to figure out who to contact?

I've tried the patent thing and wasted 700 or so dollars on a patent search. Last I contacted the same agency and they said I was looking at around 10-15 grand to get an item patented... is there a cheaper way to do this? I can make my own prototypes which they claimed would cost ~5,000.

[d_stilgar]

Most inventors go about it the wrong way and get bad information.

The best way to go is to start making an item yourself. If the concept is good enough then it should be something that you can produce and sell yourself at small quantities. After you have a proven product and a sales record go find some VCs or angel investors. Don't worry about your idea getting stolen. Odds are 100 other people have had the idea. Ideas are a dime a dozen. Investors want people who are passionate about their product. Odds are they will give you money to grow and give you their advice and expertise on scaling and where to go to get something manufactured. You will be left alone to make money for yourself and them but they will be around to help if you need it. Do this a bunch of times and eventually you won't need the investors and you can fund and contact manufacturers yourself.

[Konrad]

Well first you should patent it. Because with out one, there is nothing to stop that company from copying your product and selling it with out giving you a dime.
Although that's good advice, I disagree.

Most people automatically think a patent is some kind of insurance that will somehow make you money from your brilliant invention.

I also think of a patent as insurance. But technically, it's not much more than just a monopoly privilege, it's your first step into a legal arena where you'd better hope you're in the same weight-class as your opponents. Think of it as a reserved box in the courtroom, because patent infringements are never illegal until you bring your claims to the courts. If your idea is worth copying then have no illusion it will be copied, a patent gives you the freedom to engage in costly legal battles while no patent means you're outta luck. And the patent itself won't be worth anything unless you actually have a product or invention that can be sold ... you'll still have to do all the hard work to promote it that you would without a patent.

So, much as I hate to offer such disgusting words ... consult a lawyer, and a patent lawyer, then write your patent if you feel it's worth it. You can always register a "pending" patent, it costs less and still carries most of the same legal power as an "official" patent. It also lets you be a little more vague if you like, so you're not legally required to reveal all the sordid details behind your invention in public records. Note that entire castes of lawyers survive by functioning as corporate patent trolls; unless your invention is so astonishing and revolutionary that it doesn't overlap with any other invention ever patented, you'll be dragged into spending monies in and out of court to defend your property. It might seem strange that you'd have to spend money defending a legal device that should be defending you instead ... welcome to the courts.

Other methods of legal protection for your intellectual property are copyrights (essentially free) and registered brand trademarks (inexpensive, unless you count advertising). Time-proven engineering methods that do not involve legal machinery are "trade secrets", codelocking, encryption, steinlaus encoding, etc ... essentially any additional technology built by a devious bastard that's paranoid, treacherous, difficult, tamper-proof, mysterious and as unknowable as possible. Again, no matter what approach you take to protect your intellectual property, if it's worth serious money then people will put serious effort into duplicating (or improving) it for their own financial gain. Remember that a patent is not global; many countries do not recognize American patents, so there's always gonna be cheap Asian clones of your new invention floating around the market which even the most bulletproof patent can't touch. Patents also expire (meaning that anyone becomes legally entitled to build your invention), typically after a few years to a few decades.

One of the earliest "hackers", the legendary Don Lancaster, wrote a lot of good material about the subject - it's worsth hunting down if you're serious or curious.


What kind of service would this be considered? Like... what should I be googling to figure out who to contact? ... is there a cheaper way to do this?
Patent records are public domain, you can do all the research yourself on google if you like. Patent clerks and agents are (or should be) more knowledgeable and helpful in speeding up your efforts, but are not strictly necessary. If they are "middle-men" who are not in the employ of an actual patent office then their qualifications involve a lot of salesmanship, I wouldn't recommend using them. Patents are (like I said) a legal device, so there's some specific legal language and specialties involved; a patent lawyer (that is, a lawyer who specializes only in patent law) can guide you through the process and steer you away from common pitfalls. Prices vary depending on which patent registry you approach, but in general a pending patent is about $1000 while a "real" utility patent (for example) might be $5000 ... they don't cost tens of thousands of dollars (unless you count their "hidden" long-term legal expenses). You can do all your research, submissions, and writing yourself ... but unless you can think like both an engineer and a lawyer at the same time your submission will be full of practical or legal holes, I lawyer is worth a few hundred bucks if your invention is worth defending.

[Konrad]

3. To get really technical, request a sample from two different factories, and compare quality
Better than that, show the first company's quote to the second one; it should be obvious that they have to beat the first offer if they want the job.

[knowledgegranted]

Better than that, show the first company's quote to the second one; it should be obvious that they have to beat the first offer if they want the job.

That comes last my friend; if you don't have the two samples and cannot compare it is useless. You could be getting 300% the quality from another manufacturer and it would totally be worth the money.

[Airbozo]

...and remember, all Chinese manufacturers are beholden ONLY to their government. If they steal your idea, tough.

I am working with a customer right now who is trying to pull all of their manufacturing out of China due to patent infringements they can do nothing about. It "appears" that the Chinese manufacturing company sold their technology to a Chinese company who is now producing and selling the exact same part.

[Konrad]

lol, I don't know why people trash talk Chinese manufacturers so much. What they are doing is perfectly legal within China. Not at all different from what American manufacturers used to do (before becoming a world leader) when ripping off European inventions, or what the European manufacturers used to do when ripping off inventions from their neighbours, etc. Patent laws themselves derive from monarchies, where a "Royal Patent" was basically a special license to monopolize (the financial rewards from) a technology (provided the crown was paid sufficient tribute); it didn't matter at all where the technology came from, it was stolen from competing kingdoms or even faraway lands like China as often as it was created by a brilliant innovator.

[Kayin]

If it's an expensive item, copyleft it. Any infringers have to give it away free or they can be blasted in court. It also applies to distributors, as well. If they knowingly distribute it for pay, they can be attacked. A way to get a leg up on the competition for close to or free.

Besides, they'd eat so much making it they couldn't give it away, ensuring easy protection.

[knowledgegranted]

http://www.jimdebetta.com/looking-2-license

This is a very good investment if your serious. This is legit, not some scam. I have spoken to Jim Debetta on a few occasions, he seems like a good guy.