stuck processor

[StormRider]

Ok, I was trying to remove my heatsink today to install my new Coolit ECO ALC earlier. When I removed the heatsink, the CPU was still stuck to it! other than isopropyl alcohol, how the heck do I get it off?

[Technochicken]

See if you can slide a knife or something between the IHS and the heatsink, and pry it off. Otherwise, you may be able to slide the processor off the heatsink.

[StormRider]

A KNIFE?!?!?! are you serious?
won't that break the cpu?
edit: nevermind, I got it off

[x88x]

Try just twisting it. It's only stuck on there with suction, so if you can break the seal it should come off easily without damaging anything. I've had this happen a lot, and actually it's a good thing because it means you had a really good seal between your CPU and HS/F.

[Technochicken]

A KNIFE?!?!?! are you serious?
won't that break the cpu?
edit: nevermind, I got it off

The actual CPU die has a chunk of copper over it, so no.

[nevermind1534]

Yes, you'd be surprised at how much abuse it can take.

[FuzzyPlushroom]

I've taken 'em off gently with flathead screwdrivers before. This seems to happen most often with socket 478 CPUs (due to the large contact area and possibly the high TDP), which don't tend to be worth much anymore anyway; as such, I'm not always that gentle, but I've never had a CPU not work afterward.

[StormRider]

Well, since I was offline while I worked on it, my processor is unstuck, and it didn't start having psycho attacks after its alcohol bath. After straightening out a few pins, I put it back on, and it works fine
Now my PC is cooled with the ECO ALC I won from the contest. and that's my first real heatsink change! Yay for progress!

[msmrx57]

:up:

[mDust]

Ok, I was trying to remove my heatsink today to install my new Coolit ECO ALC earlier. When I removed the heatsink, the CPU was still stuck to it! other than isopropyl alcohol, how the heck do I get it off?

How was the CPU not locked in the socket? I'm having trouble picturing this.:think:

[Luke122]

Mdust: I've seen plenty of systems where the contact between the cpu and cooler was far more solid than the locking of the socket. Pull the heatsink, and the cpu pops right out with it!

[msmrx57]

Mdust: I've seen plenty of systems where the contact between the cpu and cooler was far more solid than the locking of the socket. Pull the heatsink, and the cpu pops right out with it!

This. The socket lock is only a plastic clamp on the smooth metal pins.

[mDust]

This. The socket lock is only a plastic clamp on the smooth metal pins.

I guess I've never seen that socket type. Sounds like an insufficient design.:think:

[x88x]

How was the CPU not locked in the socket? I'm having trouble picturing this.:think:

I'm assuming it's a pin connection, not ZIF.

[x88x]

I guess I've never seen that socket type. Sounds like an insufficient design.:think:

It's the design that every CPU from the Pentium era up until the recent ZIF sockets (LGA775/1156/1366, F, G34) has used. I believe even AM2/3 use it.

[Luke122]

It's the design that every CPU from the Pentium era up until the recent ZIF sockets (LGA775/1156/1366, F, G34) has used.

100% Correct. :)

[mDust]

It's the design that every CPU from the Pentium era up until the recent ZIF sockets (LGA775/1156/1366, F, G34) has used. I believe even AM2/3 use it.
My parents' computer from the early-to-mid-90s was the first I'd ever taken apart and it was a zif. I've worked on a few AMDs in the past that I thought were also zif but perhaps I just don't clearly recall it.

[slaveofconvention]

I've had this happen more times than I can count too. Usually with 478 processors, and a couple of times with my 754's. Never had it happen on 939's or AM2's - I guess the extra pins might give the clamp a little more traction, or the thermal paste no longer dries quite as hard as it used to - progress maybe?

As for removing them. I use a plain flat tip screwdriver. Place it between the PCB of the CPU and the HSF, and gently twist - usually comes right off with surprisingly little force, so if it happens to anyone else reading this, be ready to catch the CPU - the screwdriver will almost certainly do no damage - dropping the CPU when it pops free is more likely to cause issues lol

[x88x]

My parents' computer from the early-to-mid-90s was the first I'd ever taken apart and it was a zif. I've worked on a few AMDs in the past that I thought were also zif but perhaps I just don't clearly recall it.

I think you're mis-estimating the age of your parents' computer. If it was from the early-to-mid 90's (ie, 1990-1996) it would have been a 386, 486, AM386, AM486, Pentium, Pentium Pro, or K5. All of these were either pin-in-socket or hard-wired onto the MBB. The first ZIF socket to be used in consumer computers that I am aware of was the LGA775 socket, which debuted in late 2004. I think the only AMD CPUs that use ZIF are socket F and G34 Opterons.

@slave, fwiw, I had this happen all the time with my s939 CPUs too...I think it's just a matter of how much suction is created by the TIM seal.

[slaveofconvention]

Well I don't have that much experience with 939s to be honest. I have one, an engineering sample, sitting in my spare parts bin, and the only other one I ever had to work with was one I gave to a friend as part of a full system to replace her aging Duron 1300 system about a year ago...

[StormRider]

How was the CPU not locked in the socket? I'm having trouble picturing this.:think:
oh, it was still locked in the socket all right. just not when I was done with it :D

[Technochicken]

Well, since I was offline while I worked on it, my processor is unstuck, and it didn't start having psycho attacks after its alcohol bath. After straightening out a few pins, I put it back on, and it works fine
Now my PC is cooled with the ECO ALC I won from the contest. and that's my first real heatsink change! Yay for progress!

I just got the ECO I won yesterday, and am loving it so far. At stock speed My cpu maxes out at 31 Celsius on all three cores under prime95. With the stock cooler it would easily hit 47-50 degrees.

[StormRider]

huh, mine is MUCH hotter, but that's probably because of the heat in southern California
since mine is so much hotter(39 celsius right now O_O), I may as well ask: is it better to put multiple fans on the ALC, or just stick with one? just asking because i've got the stock fan set up on the bottom of the cooler as an intake. there's a fan shroud and a b-ice gear 120mm blue fan on the other side

[Technochicken]

Temperatures depend on your CPU as well. My Phenom II runs fairly cool compared to a lot of CPU's, even though it is not exactly cool in Georgia. 31 degrees was a push pull configuration. I have changed it to just pull, and max out at around 34 degrees.

[mDust]

I think you're mis-estimating the age of your parents' computer. If it was from the early-to-mid 90's (ie, 1990-1996) it would have been a 386, 486, AM386, AM486, Pentium, Pentium Pro, or K5. All of these were either pin-in-socket or hard-wired onto the MBB. The first ZIF socket to be used in consumer computers that I am aware of was the LGA775 socket, which debuted in late 2004. I think the only AMD CPUs that use ZIF are socket F and G34 Opterons.


Large ZIF sockets are only commonly found mounted on PC motherboards (from about the mid 1990s forward). These CPU sockets are designed to support a particular range of CPUs, allowing computer retailers and consumers to assemble motherboard/CPU combinations based on individual budget and requirements.http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zero_Insertion_Force
Nope. It was '94 or '95ish. I was 8 or 9 years old and got in a LOT of trouble for taking it apart. My parents were about to murder me as they, being completely computer illiterate, thought I had destroyed their new $3000 computer. I don't recall what kind of computer it was or any of the specs/components though. I do remember taking the CPU out, as that's when my dad walked in, saw what I was doing and was probably immediately trying to think of where to dump my corpse. Much drama later, my uncle put it all back together (as I was not allowed to touch it) and it worked fine.


Temperatures depend on your CPU as well. My Phenom II runs fairly cool compared to a lot of CPU's, even though it is not exactly cool in Georgia. 31 degrees was a push pull configuration. I have changed it to just pull, and max out at around 34 degrees. This is true as well. Some chips do just run hotter/cooler than others all else being the same.

[x88x]

Huh, ok, I wouldn't have classified those sockets as ZIF, but I guess they technically are.. The style of socket that is in the picture in the wiki article just kinda clamps the pins with friction when you 'lock' it, versus the recent style (which apparently is called Land Grid Array (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LGA_775), which is where Intel got the 'LGA' in their socket names) where the CPU is actually locked down with metal clamps (that's what I thought you were referring to, thus the confusion). Using the pin-friction "clamping" method, there's not really a whole lot of force holding the CPU in the socket, so it's not uncommon for a well TIM'd CPU to get pulled out of the socket when you remove the heatsink.

[mDust]

...(that's what I thought you were referring to, thus the confusion). Using the pin-friction "clamping" method, there's not really a whole lot of force holding the CPU in the socket, so it's not uncommon for a well TIM'd CPU to get pulled out of the socket when you remove the heatsink.

Half the time I'm not sure what I'm talking about, I don't expect anyone else to know.:) My parents' computer didn't have the metal clasp that LGAs have, but it still didn't just pull out easily. There must have been one helluva vacuum bond to pull a chip out like that. /shrug

[StormRider]

Well, it's official: something's up with my cooler's setup. Now I've got one fan taking in air from the front of the drive bays(empty, of course) and my CPU's still at 36-38 degrees at normal temperature. any other ideas?

[x88x]

What CPU do you have? That's 36-38 C at idle? That's actually pretty good..what is it at load? What's ambient?

[Technochicken]

What CPU do you have? Your system info does not show anything. Also, how tight did you screw down the cooler? But really, I would not be worried about 36 degrees. Mine hits pretty close to that with one fan.

Edit- beat me to it. I think 36-38 was a load temp.

[x88x]

Wait...you're getting 36-38C at load with a single 120mm rad...and you're complaining that it's too hot? ...I suppose again it depends what CPU you have...my Q9450 on my cooling setup sits in the mid 50's under load (granted I'm pretty sure the heatspreader wasn't quite flat, but still).

[StormRider]

well, I'm complaining because it was actually cooler with my old air cooler. And it's 39 degrees WITHOUT a load. at 0% usage(if my G15 is correct).
If I were pushing it at 90% or above and got those temps, I'd be VERY happy with it. but as it sits right now, my stock air cooler worked better.
anyway, my system info has been updated, so you should be able to see it now

[x88x]

Ok, that is a rather lower power draw CPU than mine (95W vs 125W), but that's still a pretty good temp. What is it at load? I know with my setup, even though my CPU idles at ~54-55C, it maxes out at ~56C. ...granted you won't see that level of temperature stability without a fair amount of coolant (~1.75L in mine) and a lot of rad space, but generally the difference between idle and load tends to be a lot less in liquid-cooled systems than air-cooled (except maybe the very top end air coolers).

EDIT:
OOC, what air cooler were you using before?

[StormRider]

it was pretty low end. I'm not even sure what it is.
and right now, the temp hasn't gone below 38 degrees. just stays at 38-39
It was 36 the first time I plugged it in

[slaveofconvention]

I'd be more concerned if you didn't get an improvement with load temps. The main advantage of a quality aftermarket cooler is how it handles things when it's really being put to work. I've seen coolers in the past with the same or higher idle temps which seem poor at the time, until you stress the system. Then, the improvements really start to shine - I reviewed the Thermaltake Frio a little while ago - it's idle temps were slightly higher than the Zalman unit I was replacing which had me wondering. Under stress, all 4 cores at 100% for 30 mins, it was nearly 30 degrees cooler....

Don't write the cooler off yet, not until you've really let it stretch it's legs....

[StormRider]

I'm not writing it off at all. It's still much quieter than my old cooler, and more stylish to boot.
I'm just going to keep experimenting with different setups until I find the best one
edit: I'm trying it outside the case just for a comparison. not helping much, I'm afraid

[StormRider]

ok, it's definitely as good as the old cooler. without the ridiculous California summer heat, it performs just as well as my old aircooler did. now to try it inside my case again

[x88x]

That's good. :D Yeah, even the best cooler can't bring itself below ambient.

[Konrad]

That's good. :D Yeah, even the best cooler can't bring itself below ambient.
Excluding phase-change/refrigeration, liquid-cooling (or immersion) with overkill peltiers ... and crazy exotic stuff like LN2, etc.

I'm not sure, but -
If you've got a bunch of heatpipes on your CPU block, and they're all fed into a large enough radiator surface with lots of fans moving lots of air ... isn't it possible for the "cold" end to dip below ambient? (I mean really excessive fans/radiators, not normal setups, lol.)

[x88x]

If you've got a bunch of heatpipes on your CPU block, and they're all fed into a large enough radiator surface with lots of fans moving lots of air ... isn't it possible for the "cold" end to dip below ambient? (I mean really excessive fans/radiators, not normal setups, lol.)

Actually this has come up in a few other threads a while ago, and, nope, not unless you have air colder than ambient flowing over the radiator surface (stick it over an AC register or something). Moving air over a surface can make it feel cooler than ambient, since you're removing the additional heat faster, but you can never make it colder (well, without some exotic heat-changing system like you mentioned).

[Konrad]

Good point, x88x. Duh.

In my part of Canada (that is, quite possibly the warmest part of Canada) AC just isn't standard issue because most people only need it about 1-4 weeks per year, if at all. Our homes use heaters.

I have seen a couple guys at LANs who've modded their cases so that their intake fans are attached to a length of that flexible "slinky" tube stuff (like from dryer exhaust vents) ... they string it out the nearest window. I've actually talked with guys about ideal ways to temporarily attach a flat radiator (in a liquid-cooled system, probably) to a glass window pane; haven't seen anyone do it yet.

Understand that some of the dense LAN gigs can get pretty hot and stuffy inside (due to lack of building AC, lol).

[StormRider]

well, exotic coolers aside, the ALC works pretty dang well. NOw the temps stay around 32 degrees without a load. I'll get some load temps next week when I get my new copy of Oblivion(Broke my last one >__<)

[SXRguyinMA]

well the TIM also needs time and heat cycles to set up properly as well. once it sets your temps drop :D