piano computer

[artoodeeto]

hmm...my title might be a bit misleading. Rather than build a computer that looks like a piano, here's what I want to do - build a VERY basic computer, keyboard, mouse, and screen into my digital piano.

Quite literally all the computer needs to do is display pdf files. The goal is to be able to sit down and play music straight from pdf files rather than having to have a printed score. I currently have about 35,000 pages printed (SUPER freakin' heavy come moving time, probably a good 300 pounds worth) and I'm adding a whole lot more to my collection.
Luckily I have an extra screen, keyboard, and mouse.

So, I'd need a PSU, motherboard w/built in video, processor, RAM, and 2.5" hard drive. Any recommendations on the MB, processor and RAM? Cheaper and smaller = better (one of those mini PSU's and a mini ITX is what I'm thinking, but I don't know anything about them). Again, it only needs to display pdfs, I'm not even sure I'll set it up to go online. I don't need a huge hard drive. I think all my current pdfs amount to around 10GB. A lot for pdfs, but not taking up much room overall on the HD. A 60GB HD would be more than enough. I'll also need to build an accessible front USB port into it so I can load files onto it, and so I can attach a DVD drive and load Windows onto it.

I also want some kind of 2 button device programmed to page up and another to page down, so I don't have to find the key on the computer keyboard when I'm in the middle of playing something. Any ideas if something like that exists?

Thanks for any help!

PS - Sadly, I don't have gainful employment at the moment, so implementation will have to wait til I'm getting a real paycheck again. But if I can at least get it planned out now, then building it should be a snap.

If anyone has any old stuff they'd like to offload/donate, either free or super duper cheap, pm me :D

[nevermind1534]

If mATX will work, I can give you a mobo and processor (3.2GHz P4) and probably some memory really cheap.

[x88x]

For the page up/down thing I would get a keyboard with those 'media button' things, and extend two of them over that you could then map to whatever in software.

For hardware, I have an 800MHz P3 with 256MB of RAM on a mATX MBB you can have for shipping if you want it...could throw in a 3-4GB HDD too if you want. Probably won't run XP (at least not the normal version), but throw a lightweight Linux distro on it and it'll scream (well, ok, not really...but it'll display PDFs just fine), and it won't produce hardly any heat, and has onboard video. ...I think it works...it did last time I tried it.

[d_stilgar]

I have a mini-itx C7 motherboard. It's the one I used in my NES PC. I just ordered a an Atom version because it will do media better. A small confession is that I've never been able to get the darn thing to output to a display. It posts, but I can't get an image on anything, not a monitor, not a TV. I worry that my monitor is too high res or something. Anyway, let me know if you are interested. I won't be needing it any more.

[slaveofconvention]

I think I'd look into booting from a compact flash card and wireless to access files on another PC - it'd make adding stuff really simple, and bring the footprint down even further

[Luke122]

iPad + This: http://airturn.com/press-releases/ipad-bluetooth-page-turner-footswitch-prototype-from-airturn-inc

[artoodeeto]

iPad + This: http://airturn.com/press-releases/ipad-bluetooth-page-turner-footswitch-prototype-from-airturn-inc

That would be ideal in some ways but not others - I'm thinking a mini desktop for the screen size, so I can view 2 pages at a time like a normal book, rather than just one, and cost. :( It's also very new tech, so I'd rather spend a small amt. of $$ now and get exactly what I want, even if it's a little clunky and not portable, then switch it out to something streamlined later when the designs have matured more and I have more money.

I like the ideas on the mATX mobo and such...hmm...and I especially like the thought of using, say, an SDHC 32GB card connected via USB to run the computer off of, or at least store all the pdfs on it. I can easily port that between my real computer and the piano comp to add files...and, I could design a small case to house the computer and bolt it to the back of the screen - if I get one of those tiny PSU's like they sell here http://www.mini-box.com/Power-Supplies-Kits then the whole setup won't weigh much more than the mobo itself. The case would double as a stand for the screen, and I'd have some portability.

[SXRguyinMA]

I've got an 80GB IDE HDD I'll let go for super cheap if you want. I'm currently using it, but once Red Comet is done I'm doing a fresh isntall on a 160GB one I've got laying around, and will have no use for the 80GB. PM me and we can talk :)

[d_stilgar]

Hmm . . . I have a case with AC-DC PSU, Mini-itx motherboard with C7cpu, old dell CD rom, and a 60gb IDE HDD.

Here's the case:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811165041

I noted the motherboard above.

I'm willing to sell it all on the cheap if you want it. I need to get rid of it. I have too much junk. What price is fair for you. All you would need is ram and to figure out why the silly thing won't display anything, which is probably some simple error I've been making.

[artoodeeto]

Looks like I'm going to go with the P4 mATX option that nevermind is offering - still have yet to finalize, but my concern with yours was that if it is indeed a screen whose res is too high, I'll have the same problem. My extra screen is 1920x1080, and the only other screens I have are 1600x1200 (although I do have an older tv at 1280x760).
Still, I'll keep it in mind, thanks!!! I like the fact that it's smaller than the mATX setup would be...

[d_stilgar]

I'll see if I can't fiddle with it some more and get it to work.

[Konrad]

I'd use a cheap used laptop; doesn't have to be manly or modern, just run a lightweight OS (like a stripped linux distro or Win9x) and a pdf reader.

This way you get a complete lappy mobo with VGA-out and USB ports (to allow plugging in a keyboard, mouse, and flash drive); the keyboard can be "hacked" out (ie, removed) and modified or replaced with any sort of USB keypad (or bastardized cheap USB keyboard stripped down to just the controller, LEDs, and a handful of keys). PSU can be taken "as is" with rechargeable laptop battery or you can buy/make an adapter for whatever odd DC voltage it requires (~14-22V+, varies by laptop model), heat shouldn't be hard to manage since the piano probably has more room than the original casing, use the existing fan/cooling and a little ducting.

Total cost might be $100 or less, probably cheaper than buying a little PC worth of components, plus you get a decent display and some plastics (or can score huge cost savings by buying a laptop with a busted screen).

[Luthien]

I'll be honest upfront: I have no knowledge of how to do this, but it is a really great idea. Put pics up when you can.

[artoodeeto]

I've managed to put together a P4 mini-ATX setup with an 80GB HD and a gig of RAM for about $50. I already had the screen and wireless keyboard/mouse. I have yet to put the system together and get it running, I've been trying to get my sandcrawler done first (nearly there!).
I'll definitely get pics up as soon as I can...heck maybe I'll even just start a worklog right now with pics of the piano and the computer components... hmm.... :D

As far as how to do it, it's a pretty simple setup. The P4 will have Windows and Acrobat installed on it, along with the 15GB or so of pdf sheet music. It'll be displayed on a 22" widescreen - just the right size so when I set up Acrobat to display 2 pages side by side, fullscreen, physically they'll be just a hair smaller than 8.5x11". Ideally I'd like an even bigger screen (but not too big, ie it'd be silly to try and run it to my 46" TV on the wall right above the piano). But the 22" will do for now. The only thing I'm waiting on are a couple of USB foot pedals. They're essentially a single button, but look like a pedal from a sewing machine, albeit smaller. I ordered a couple thru ebay from Hong Kong at the beginning of November and they never arrived; the seller has graciously agreed to send replacements instead of a refund so hopefully try #2 will work...Once I get those, I can map one to Pageup and one to Pagedown, and "turn" pages instantly with my foot.

Eventually I'd love to have something like an ipad, or as Konrad said a cheap laptop (wish I'd thought of that before I bought the P4, even though the P4 was super cheap and should work just fine). Eh well. It's still WAY easier than printing, binding, and finding space for 7,000 or 8,000 more pages of sheet music.

Oh yeah, and I may see if I can't find a small normal case to put it all in, with the goal of modding it at some point. I can't figure out how to take the piano casing apart, and I kind of want the computer to be at least semi-mobile. And since I'm just finishing the crawler, I *really* don't want to start another from-scratch construction just yet...

[Konrad]

You just need the right tools to disassemble the piano. Sledgehammer, crowbar, axe, and shovel.

Turn it upside down (or turn yourself upside down, probably easier) and look for screws/fasteners, glued or removable panels and fascia, etc. They might be hidden under rubber footpads, stickers, or decorative finish. There's gotta be some way to tune or service the piano, even if it's electronic.

[artoodeeto]

Oh it can definitely be taken apart, I'm just not willing to risk breaking it, as it cost nearly $4000 and there's no way I can afford to replace it at the moment. I have looked inside (sort of) though, and there's not a huge amount of space in there - what appears to be extra room is actually for the keyboard lid when it's slid back. And I didn't want my computer to only work for this piano - I'd like to have the option of taking it somewhere.

[Konrad]

I suppose it might be best to just mount a flat display externally and wire to a little box beside the piano (only damage to the piano would be some little mounting holes on the front panel). You might be able to design it such that a coverplate could fit onto (and protect) the display while functioning as a normal sheet stand.

Putting objects inside the piano might change its acoustic properties, though I don't really know. I only do electone, plenty of room inside the chassis. <g>

[x88x]

Personally, I would just make the display either sit firmly in or clamp onto (whichever is applicable) the music holder. Maybe it's how I was raised, but the thought of drilling mounting holes into a piano is just... *shudders*

[artoodeeto]

Putting objects inside the piano might change its acoustic properties, though I don't really know. I only do electone, plenty of room inside the chassis. <g>

In this case it wouldn't change the acoustics - the speakers are underneath the main body of the piano, so all the sound is aimed down, rather than back toward the cabinet.


Personally, I would just make the display either sit firmly in or clamp onto (whichever is applicable) the music holder. Maybe it's how I was raised, but the thought of drilling mounting holes into a piano is just... *shudders*

Yep, I completely agree. My music stand can fold down, and for the time being I was planning on just setting the monitor on top. I like the clamping mechanism idea though, I'll have to see if I can come up with something.

[Konrad]

lol, you'd happily mod into a car, computer, building, or other "big ticket" item, yet hesitate when faced with a musical instrument?

[artoodeeto]

It's more that if I break it, I can't afford to replace it. And if it were a real piano I'd feel even more so that way (since a good baby grand can cost more than many cars). There's a certain finish and refinement to them that is very easily ruined if you don't really know what you're doing. If I had access to a digital piano to practice on, I'd probably feel better about modding mine. On the flip side, part of the point of the computer is to be mobile, and while it'd be nice to have one built in to the instrument, it wouldn't be mobile.
Maybe one thing I could do is mount it on the back of the piano to keep it out of the way, although it might be metal back there. And I don't know what's behind it.
Still, there's space down at the bottom (when I get a worklog going you'll see what I'm talking about) where a case could go.

[x88x]

lol, you'd happily mod into a car, computer, building, or other "big ticket" item, yet hesitate when faced with a musical instrument?

Well, part of it is like I said, how I was raised, but the other part is skillset. Pianos in particular are made to a certain precision, refinement, and finish that I'm not confident I would have the skills to fix something if it went wrong...or make the modifications to the level of quality of the original. Also, there's the problem of, if I break something and can't fix it, what would it cost to have a professional do it? With a computer, car, or house, if I break one piece it usually doesn't affect a lot of other parts (there are exceptions...one reason why I shy away from working on my furnace myself). With an acoustic piano (kind I grew up with and personally the only kind I would buy), if I screw anything up, it's almost guaranteed to screw up the whole thing.

Also, like artoo mentioned, the price is a huge consideration. Essex is an entry-level sister company of Steinway, and while I can't find any prices online (since, well, these really aren't things you buy online), I did find an article from 2001 when they launched the Essex line (http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m0EIN/is_2001_Jan_23/ai_69410697/)...the lowest priced upright model started at $5,200.

[Kayin]

I probably shouldn't state at this juncture I made my own french horn, eh?

Or that it was made with a prototype Farkas.

[x88x]

I probably shouldn't state at this juncture I made my own french horn, eh?

Or that it was made with a prototype Farkas.

That's where the skill factor comes in. ;)

[Kayin]

There is a certain amount of testicular fortitude that comes with the territory.

If you're not confident about modding it, don't. However, this sheet music PC interests me.

[AmEv]

You stole one of my ideas!...

Good luck.

[artoodeeto]

Thanks! Thought I'd add a link to page one of the worklog that I started for this project (now that the project's almost done LOL)

http://www.thebestcasescenario.com/forum/showthread.php?t=25442