Argh, Xbox.

[NightrainSrt4]

Darn 360 just E74'd.

I hardly play this thing. It has had maybe 160 hours over the last 3+ years. Apartment is kept 72-74F.

I'm so tired of BGA failings. Why companies are still going this route after a kazillion products dying from the same failure, I don't know. This puts my iBook, my Dell, and 360 all croaking from bad bga joints.

Heat gunning it now as it just went out of warranty. Anyone else have a similar issue? How long did the fix last?

[Diamon]

I did the heat fix on my old 360 and it lasted for about a week. You could open the xbox and re-solder the heatsinks manually, which is what I'd recommend. Or you could buy one of those fancy new versions.

[slaveofconvention]

To be honest, I have 3 E74'd boxes - they've all been fixed, a couple of them twice, and they haven't lasted - I ended up buying one of the new 250GB ones myself. I've done them myself and had them done by a friend who has forgotten more about fixing Xboxes than I'll ever probably know. I've come to the conclusion it isn't worth the hassle in the long term :S

[dr.walrus]

Darn 360 just E74'd.

I hardly play this thing. It has had maybe 160 hours over the last 3+ years. Apartment is kept 72-74F.

I'm so tired of BGA failings. Why companies are still going this route after a kazillion products dying from the same failure, I don't know. This puts my iBook, my Dell, and 360 all croaking from bad bga joints.

Heat gunning it now as it just went out of warranty. Anyone else have a similar issue? How long did the fix last?

You do know you have a three year warranty against RRODs?

[billygoat333]

You do know you have a three year warranty against RRODs?

He said he's had it 3+ years, I am assuming he knew and that it has expired.

My friend just gave me his 360 to fix... hoping we can salvage it so we can have a massive halo lan party at his house one of these days.

[NightrainSrt4]

Yup, as mentioned it is 3+ years old, so the warranty is gone. Either way, I already opened it up. I got it running again. It wasn't the HANA chip as heatgunning that region did nothing. Went back and did the gpu and it started to work again.

Not sure how long it is going to last. I don't have the money for a new one right now. Things just aren't made like they used to. Damn LCDTV died just out of warranty too. I've got a tv that is 15 years old working great, but new crap, nope, just all croaks right out of warranty, even though I take immaculate care of my stuff.

[dr.walrus]

Yup, as mentioned it is 3+ years old, so the warranty is gone. Either way, I already opened it up. I got it running again. It wasn't the HANA chip as heatgunning that region did nothing. Went back and did the gpu and it started to work again.

Not sure how long it is going to last. I don't have the money for a new one right now. Things just aren't made like they used to. Damn LCDTV died just out of warranty too. I've got a tv that is 15 years old working great, but new crap, nope, just all croaks right out of warranty, even though I take immaculate care of my stuff.

Sorry, can't read

[NightrainSrt4]

It's okay. I didn't directly say how old it was.

It worked a couple hours then it stopped. The graphics get all corrupted while playing. When you turn it off then on they go back to normal. It isn't the HDMI cable as I tried several that all work with other things.

Argh. So tired of electronics.

[Snowman]

I have heard of some people completely re balling the board and getting better life out of it than the factory job but its also expensive

[NightrainSrt4]

I'd rather just get a new 4GB slim than try and get it reballed and hope it works out okay. That or swap to PS3, if only for Demon Souls. By the time I get to that game the online will be dead and half the experience will be gone.

[Snowman]

Careful, m$ is getting in more and more trouble over the 4gb slim for not being able to play all games online with it.

[chaksq]

I still don't understand how M$ can make such a terrible product and people still buy them. In my experience ALL 360s will RROD. My roommates just had that happen this weekend and it's just over 3 years old as well.

[dr.walrus]

I still don't understand how M$ can make such a terrible product and people still buy them. In my experience ALL 360s will RROD. My roommates just had that happen this weekend and it's just over 3 years old as well.

Just to play devil's advocate - that's sort of like my experience saying all shoes are black because I've only ever seen black shoes...

[Snowman]

Just to play devil's advocate - that's sort of like my experience saying all shoes are black because I've only ever seen black shoes...

This... most newer boards arent failing for the same reasons as older ones did.

[dr.walrus]

And the failure rate has really, really fallen. I own two; the newer one still runs fine, the older (secondhand) one had an overheating issue and died a year ago. The newest one is almost 18 months old.

[Konrad]

As far as I can tell, an Xbox is just a low end gaming PC built into a console form factor. Deliberately designed to use slightly different instruction code and file structures than a PC ... plus a healthy dose of proprietary DRM.

I did a little reading about E74. It's basically caused by a cooked GPU, because factory cooling isn't good enough? (Weren't there xbox recalls some years ago? Something about the earliest models overheating to the point of being a fire hazard? Seems to me that when a company is willing to cut a few corners they inevitably end up trying awfully hard to cut every corner, to squeaze out every drop of profit they can.)

Why would anyone who already has a gaming PC buy into xbox? And then pay more modding it - to bypass the DRM and/or to correct design flaws? (Especially when you can pick up a comparably mediocre gaming PC for the same $$$.)
And then pay the inflated prices for the game software?
And then pay the monthly subscriptions? :?
And then of course, there's the entire market for xbox add-ons, HDDs, controllers, etc. Very much the same things you can buy for your PC, just fewer choices at higher prices.

I suppose I can understand the argument that young children can't operate a computer. I don't really believe it, but for the purpose of argument - if they're that young then they shouldn't be playing xbox titles anyhow, lol, stick with the kindergarten Wii stuff.

Am I missing something? I'm not specifically trying to malign the xbox ... I just don't get it.

[Kayin]

Well, owning a high-end gaming PC and an Xbox360, I can say, sometimes, one game was made for one or the other. PC console ports are often sloppy, having control glitches that screw up the sense of verisimilitude. I played Batman: Arkham Asylum for PC and 360 both. I did the PC review for TBCS, in fact. On 360, it's simply easier to do certain things.

Furthermore, I play for some of the exclusives, as well. Bayonetta did not come out for PC. It was fun as hell. Same as FF XIII. I just see it as horses for courses. And the 360 when I want to play something a bit less mind-engaging.

Long time no see, finally getting over this nasty infection.

[Snowman]

Pretty much what Kayin said. People preach about the xbox controller which I can't stand. And by no means do I have the 360 for online play, I think paying for it is ridiculous that's what I have the ps3 for. There are other games that I do not see working for either console and yes I will admit it I play counter strike, and it is a pc only game I don't care what console they release it for.

[Konrad]

wb, Kayin, yeah long time no see.

Your arguments makes sense.

1) Some titles are optimized for particular platforms. Sometimes this is not the PC.
2) Some titles are exclusive. (Although this is rare, especially for a popular/lucrative title; for example, FF13 is currently being developed for PC. Of course some ppl just can't wait and simply must have their movies/games/music the first moment they're released. Assuming they wait that long.)

And then of course there's the entire concept of running emulators. Certainly you can emulate xbox on a PC. I don't see any reason why you can't emulate a PC on xbox, but I don't know if anyone's done it.

I'll admit emulators can become quite involved, skirt legalities, may never be 100% perfect/compatible, and sometimes cost more time and money than just buying each platform outright.

[Snowman]

wb, Kayin, yeah long time no see.

And then of course there's the entire concept of running emulators. Certainly you can emulate xbox on a PC. I don't see any reason why you can't emulate a PC on xbox, but I don't know if anyone's done it.



You find me a good xbox emu and I will stop shopping for another xbox to mod. They simply don't exist. Not a good one anyway, all legalities aside. Most good emulators are fifth generation and older except for gameboy which honestly hasn't changed much giving reason to the easy emulation. All of that aside most people have personal preferences to either consoles or even pc's. I personally never liked the concept of pc gaming until I discovered first person shooters such as DOOM. I have all three major consoles right now and I don't play any of them much I was browsing for dreamcasts on ebizzle the other day and I got my 64 hooked up to my secondary monitor for when I get bored. I can probably get a game of Unreal Tournament going on the dreamcast by the time I get it to boot on other systems, and star fox is just addictive.

[Konrad]

So what you're really saying is that (all legalities aside) I only need to wait forever until a fifth (or later) generation xbox emulator becomes available. (Assuming the xbox evolves more than the gameboy did, of course.)

I can do that. :)

My preference has always been the opposite of yours, apparently. I started off gaming on the PC (Apple II+ and C64, actually). Except when the consoles had exclusive titles I wanted to play - something that hasn't happened since NES, SNES, PS2, and Sega Genesis - and all of those can now be PC-emulated, lol. Mind you, that has a lot to do with the fact that these machines were pathetically simple by today's standards, I've actually emulated NES and Apple IIe machines on programmable logic boards.

(Incidentally, anybody else ever heard of the Angry Video Game Nerd?)

[Snowman]

As far as generations go this is what I am referring to Generations of Systems. (http://www.gamefaqs.com/systems.html)

As far as XBOX emu's go they just haven't accomplished it. as far as running emu's the gray area of the law doesn't prohibit running a rom as long as you own both the original system as well as the game. That being said I have a pocket system that I can run emu's of almost all my favorite older systems with the exception of 64 on. For legal issues I can't of course say what I use or how I am able to do so but it is nice to play game boy games, switch over to super nintendo, and then throw in a little original contra before going over to some sonic all while never leaving the comfort of my bed. In the mean time imagine the wire mess my wife would kill me for.

[Kayin]

Yeah, I'm currently shopping parts for my own little emulator machine. Suffice to say I've been looking at a nice mini-ITX system, and reusing some pretty decent hardware, so anything up to PS2 should be good.

Taken a look at GameEX? I'm going through it now, really looks to be the stuff.

[Konrad]

The surprising thing is that an xbox or x360 wouldn't be too difficult to hardware emulate - lol, they share a lot of parts and architecture with PCs.

The real nightmare would be attempting to emulate the thousand processors in a saturn, lol. But who knows, maybe the whole package could be run on a single graphics card?

[Luke122]

Quick tip to anyone having RRoD and other related failures with the Xbox360...

Laying them flat = faster death.

It sounds crazy, I know.. considering that the hdd is on the top, and you'd think that there wouldnt be suitable ventilation that way, but I reflowed mine over a year ago, and play it quite regularly with zero issues. I just stand it up, and make sure it's propped up ever so slightly to allow more airflow in from the bottom.

If I lay it down, it dies within an hour from heat. Cool down, stand up, good to go again.

YMMV, but this has been the case for a a couple now that I've seen/repaired.

[Snowman]

The surprising thing is that an xbox or x360 wouldn't be too difficult to hardware emulate - lol, they share a lot of parts and architecture with PCs.

The real nightmare would be attempting to emulate the thousand processors in a saturn, lol. But who knows, maybe the whole package could be run on a single graphics card?

Once again my friend no offense or anything but I dare you to try and find a good xbox emulator.

[Konrad]

Once again my friend no offense or anything but I dare you to try and find a good xbox emulator.
I've never tried, though what you say suggests that there aren't any emulators out there. So far a PC has been good enough for my gaming needs; maybe I don't know what I'm missing?

I know that E74 is something I can happily live without.

[Snowman]

I've never tried, though what you say suggests that there aren't any emulators out there. So far a PC has been good enough for my gaming needs; maybe I don't know what I'm missing?

I know that E74 is something I can happily live without.

There is one emu and it sucks and won't play most roms without some back end coding every time you play a different rom. No offense but you it seems as though you have the same feelings on the xbox I did until I got one and I love it, both the og and the 360. The earlier models of the 360 are mainly the ones that e74 or otherwise rrod from the x clamps. Also a lot of the problems that occurred were do to people playing high end games with their console in an entertainment center with no ventilation because that's where their other consoles worked. At any rate e74 and rrod has an extended warranty, and most of this will slowly become a memory.

[Konrad]

I know what you're saying, Snow.

But I've already got a few higher-end gaming PCs. I still can't quite force myself to overlook the x360 hardware specs (roughly comparable to a speedloaded i5 with a DX9-generation ATI card). The price of an x360 (plus 1-2 controllers and at least 1 game) will buy me a serious PC hardware upgrade (plus controller and at least 1 new game).

There hasn't yet been any xbox-exclusive content which has made it seem worthwhile for me. All my gaming buddies are running PC platforms. To be honest, the next console I buy would probably be a PlayStation, since there's more "exclusive" content that I can't run on a PC. Just sayin'

[Snowman]

I know what you're saying, Snow.

But I've already got a few higher-end gaming PCs. I still can't quite force myself to overlook the x360 hardware specs (roughly comparable to a speedloaded i5 with a DX9-generation ATI card). The price of an x360 (plus 1-2 controllers and at least 1 game) will buy me a serious PC hardware upgrade (plus controller and at least 1 new game).

There hasn't yet been any xbox-exclusive content which has made it seem worthwhile for me. All my gaming buddies are running PC platforms. To be honest, the next console I buy would probably be a PlayStation, since there's more "exclusive" content that I can't run on a PC. Just sayin'

Well see I lucked into an rrod with hdd that I did an x clamp fix on sold without the hdd, bought a brand new arcade slapped the hard drive on so the only cost I really had was some slight overhead.

[NightrainSrt4]

See, I went out of my way to make sure I bought a Falcon 360 to avoid these issues as everyone was saying "OMG new Falcons don't RROD".

As for orientation I had the 360 flat most of its life, and I got the E74 after a month of having it vertical. Completely open ventilation wise, so I don't know.

Tired of buying crappy products. Add my m11x to the list. I've just got the worst luck in the world I guess, or they just don't make things like they used to. I'm so tired of this disposable electronic phase the industry seems to be going through. Use it till it breaks, as it will, then buy a new one. I'm just going to start buying Dynex brand or some crap of all electronics, as paying extra for "higher quality" sure has worked out great for me so far.

[Konrad]

Tired of buying crappy products ... they just don't make things like they used to. I'm so tired of this disposable electronic phase the industry seems to be going through.
Welcome to the world of lead-free solder, water-filled electrolytics, paper transistors, and screenprinted diodes. Never use a tube or transformer when you can stamp a little chip on the board instead. Plate those metal conductors thinner and thinner. The product will be obsolete next year, so don't bother with engineering any cooling or fault tolerance, just build it cheap and fast. Hell, don't even bother with that, let the Chinese factories figure it out for you and go with the lowest bidder.

Whenever I buy any new gizmo - computer parts, cellphone, DVD player, keyboard, monitor, toothbrush, camera, toaster - I look forward to getting it home for a quick takeapart. I have been known to "repair" or "upgrade" new functional gizmos as a preemptive measure because failure of certain component(s) is obvious and expected (and/or widely reported). I have also been known to be so disgusted with what's "under the hood" of certain products that they get returned immediately.

"Warranty void" usually occurs within less than a day (though I have devised numerous clever ways to hide the evidence :whistler:). Screw the OEM's stern little warnings ... nobody would buy a (new or used) car with hidden tamper-proof bolts and mean little stickers preventing the hood from opening.

I'm with you, though - sometimes the "cheap junk" is pretty much interchangable with the "expensive junk". And you feel less nervous about "breaking" it, more willing to experiment with added LEDs or switches or moving connector or whatever. Buy broken expensive things cheap, fix it cheap, and get the best of both worlds.

[NightrainSrt4]

It had been dead for a month now, as heat gunning the chips only worked for a very short while. Was about to throw it away, then randomly figured I'd just try the oven method.

Stripped it down to the motherboard, lightly wrapped the unnecessary areas with aluminum foil and placed it on 4 aluminum foil balls on a wire cooling wrack on a sheet pan. Placed it in the oven for 10 minutes at 385F. Cooled. Did a quick solder to force the fans to run at 12V. Made a divider to put over the gpu heatsink to try and force the air to run all the way across it. And put a ramsink on the HANA chip, and one on the southbridge for good measure.

Put it all back together and it powered on first time. Played for a bit. Damn thing is loud as hell now compared to being silent, but if it helps keep it alive then it is something I will deal with. We shall see how long it lasts this time.

[BuzzKillington]

What happened to your M11x?

[CorsePerVita]

My xbox started giving up the ghost about a month ago. Open tray error. I have tried EVERYTHING except replacing the drive. I'm sick of working on the stupid thing.

[NightrainSrt4]

What happened to your M11x?

The hinge problem that has been haunting a good chunk of m11x owners. Hinge is all jacked up even though I only had been using it maybe 2-3 times a week for 2 months. They gave me the run around last time; haven't had time to call in and deal with them again. Great laptop aside from the hinge, but I wish I had known the new 11" Air was coming out, as I would have gotten that instead.