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Oneslowz28
11-18-2010, 07:33 PM
I have been thinking about this all day and I really would like honest input from other people. What is your work ethic like? How hard are you willing to work to put food on your table? Would you ever quit a paying job because "I am worth $xx and hour not the $xx you are paying me"

I started working when I was 13 on my grandfathers construction sites. For the most part I just cleaned up the site and moved materials from point A to point b. Up until 15 this was only during the first few weeks of summer so I could make enough $$ to go to a theme park or buy some new video games. When I turned 15, I would work 3 days a week after school and during that time he taught me how to lay out and dig the footers for foundations. The work consisted of me hand digging a lot of ditches, making sure things were on grade and the layout followed the dimensions on the blueprints. The whole time he would ride me harder than anyone else on the job site. I use to go home every night mad at him for making me work harder than everyone else. Over the years he continued to work me harder and hold me accountable for more than any other employee he had. I was always resentful for that, when he taught me to lay brick he held me to a standard above his own, while guys who had been working for him for years laid way below his standard for me.

When I went to college I would come home every other weekend and most of those Saturdays were spent on one of his job sites working, even if I was the only person there. A few weeks before he passed away, he was real weak from the lung cancer covering most of his lungs. He pulled me down to his wheel chair and told me that he wanted me to finish college and get a job where I did not have to bust my ass to put food on the table, but that I should never be afraid or ashamed to work hard if I needed to. That sentence is the reason I started my photography company. It is also the reason I went back into construction this year partnering up with my uncle.

I look back now and realize that he rode me so hard not because he thought I did everything wrong, but because he wanted to instill a very strong work ethic in me. It was not enough for him to teach me how to work, He wanted me to take pride in my work and to know what an honest days work was. That is the reason I spend 50-60 hours a week in the company and then come home and spend another 20-30 here at TBCS.

Even though I am at the top of the company, I still get out to the job site and work my ass off a few times a week. There are still a few guys there who I worked with in my teens and who worked for my grandfather for 20 years. They have woke up and busted ass every morning for the last 30 years or so. They are the type of guys who never complain, are always willing to teach and maybe even learn something new. On the other hand I have some mid - late 20s and 30s guys who are hard workers too. They may complain a little more than the older guys but they for the most part work hard.

Now I will get to the reason for this post.

A couple months back I hired 2 guys, both of whom were in their early 20s. Actually now that I think about it, one of them was 19. They both complained about everything. From how hot it was, to how heavy the materials are, and even how everyone worked too hard. Well both of them wound up quitting after a week or 2. So I hired another guy. James was 21 and would work hard for the first 2 days of the week and slack off the rest. After a short talk he wound up picking the pace up for the rest of the week. That lasted about 3 weeks. Then one of my regular laborers had a Dr appointment, so I went to the job to take up the slack. I worked at a normal to me pace and don't really consider it "busting ass". That day I worked circles around James. I literally tended 3 masons on my own (including stocking materials) to his 1. He wound up quitting a few weeks later because the work was "too hard" for him.

A month or so later I hired 2 guys from a temp service. Both worked hard for the first week or so and then they took a nose dive. IIRC both were in their early 20s. One of them wound up leaving for a permanent position at a carpet factory. The other stayed a few weeks and left. So I went back to the temp service. We really only needed one guy. They sent a guy over. He was in his late 20s. I was spending a lot of time in the office so I never really got to know him very well. On a Friday, I went to the job site with about 2 hours left in the day. We needed some mortar mix so I phoned our supplier and ordered 20 bags. It showed up right as everyone was knocking off. I didnt want to unload it all by myself so I offered the new guy $25 cash to stay for 10 extra minutes and help me unload it. He quickly declined and went on a mini rant about how I was asking too much of him and how we work way too fast. He quit right there. I make a decent living and even I would have stayed back for 10 min and unloaded 10 bags of mix for $25. So after he left I went over and began unloading the mix off the truck. The 50+ year old driver came out said "lazy S.O.B's like that make me sick" and helped me unload the bags. I tipped him $25.

I lucked out a few weeks later and hired an old friend who was down on his luck and wanted a fresh start in life. He has been with us ever since and at the pace he is working, he may move from laborer to apprentice by the new year.

This brings me to this week. We have been building a home, for the last month and a half. My uncle has half our guys working out of town and I have lost 2 guys in the last 3 months due to failing random drug testing. As a result I have been having to spend more and more time on the job site and less time working on my other duties. So Monday I had a guy call and ask if I had any entry level positions open. I told him to come in and bring a resume. Tim's education stopped at the HS level and had several years of retail experience but not any construction experience. He seemed eager to learn and came off as willing to work, so I hired him. That same day I called and had Man Power send over a temp, I requested someone with day labor experience. On Tuesday they sent me a 22yo named Ruben. I went to the job site and introduced them, and gave them their duties. They both were to work side by side with Jack my oldest laborer (been doing it for 16 years) and told them to do what ever my foreman told them to do.

This is where I should mention that I pay all my new labor help $10/hour and if they make it to the 6 month mark I will give them a $.50 raise. Well Ruben lasted all of 1 day and quit yesterday after lunch. He apparently got pissed because my foreman told him to put his cell in his car because he would not stop texting and talking on it. Well today Tim showed up at the office around 3pm and asked me for a raise.... Yes he had been there 2 days and was already asking for a raise. I asked him why he needed the raise, hoping he would say something like he cant feed his kids or his bills are overwhelming him. If he would have said that, I might have considered it. His reply was "I really want to save up for Burning Man next year"....:facepalm: So I asked him why he thought he deserved a raise. His reasoning was that he "is worth more than $10 an hour" and "he is an asset to our company". No shocker here but I declined his request for a raise. 99% of my decision was because he has been with us for only 2 days. When I declined the raise he gave me the finger and said "eff you, I can find more work" and then quit.

So What I want to know, does everyone under the age of 25 think that hard work is beneath them? Do they feel entitled to get paid more just because "they deserve it" with no valid reasoning to back it up? Do you look for a job, just so you can get a paycheck every 2 weeks? Is taking pride in your work, and earning the respect of your coworkers really that passe?



Wow that was long. I needed to get it off my chest though. Thanks for reading.

diluzio91
11-18-2010, 07:57 PM
im 19, and i was lucky enough to have a friend with a PC shop hire me, but if i needed money i dont care what i do so long as they pay me for my work. I dont go out of my way to "kiss up" to the boss, but if they ask me to cover a shift or stay late i do it if i dont have something school related in the way. I work fast food (on campus, similar to a fazolies maybe?), but we do watch a lot of kids go through and quit because they dont want to put food in the oven, or washing the stir fry pots isnt what they where hired for. As far as the speed thing, i settle into a decent pace with whatever i do, it may not be as fast as everyone else, it may faster than the people around me. but its the pace i can maintain while still having the same quality of work that is needed.

SXRguyinMA
11-18-2010, 07:58 PM
In all honesty I'd do whatever was needed for my family. I started work at 15, as an assistant in an office. Nothing crazy but it gave me some spending money. I worked there for about 2 years, and left because I had graduated high school, and went to phoenix for MMI.

I worked at FedEx there for about 3 months, and got tired of them calling me in to work @2AM, then drive an hour there, work for maybe 2 hours and get told to go home because it was too slow. After 2 weeks straight of that I told him that was it. No point spending more on gas and ruining my sleep for an hour or two's worth of work. After that I started at a local bike shop, and was there for over a year as a lot tech (washing bikes, basic assembly, oil changes, tire changes, etc etc), and only left there because I was done with MMI and was moving back home.

And since I've been home I've worked at a few different bike shops as a tech, then eventually as a service writer, and I'm currently the Parts Manager/Service Writer/Salesman, and in April it'll be 3 years at this shop. I did work at a warehouse nights for a bit when I got home, but only until I found a job at a shop. I was a temp at that warehouse, and I told the supervisor that I was giving him my 2 weeks because I had found a job at a shop. He replied "Well it doesn't matter you're just a temp." Not even a "Thanks" or "OK" or anything, just that. Needless to say I didn't finish out my 2 weeks.

I have been getting scared lately though with the economy, as the shop I work at is just an expensive toy store. We sell ATVs, snowmobiles, Vespa scooters and RVs (travel trailers, 5th wheels etc). Well when times get tough the first thing everyone stops buying is toys. Luckily though this year has been picking up a lot so far. I've also been contemplating going back to school to get my bachelor's in electrical engineering, and I'm currently looking at several different schools, each with a different price and schedule

I do take pride in my work (as a tech, and with my side business) as I'm responsible for someone else's pride and joy. It's not a car or truck, but a motorcycle or ATV or jet ski. It's something that people have fun with. I might spend a little more time at my expense just to make sure something is done right. And if I go over options with the customer, and they decline or offer a "mickey mouse" fix, I tell them politely that I won't do it that way. If they want me to fix it it's going to be done the right way, because my name is all over their machine.

and I'm 26 (27 in Jan) BTW :D

blaze15301
11-18-2010, 08:02 PM
im 18 and i busted my ass off at a farm for a summer i m talking 10-14 hour days for maybe 7.00$. but i did it because it helped me greatly in my work ethnic. the only time i will refuse to work or my work ethnic sucks is if im treated like ****. that is why i lasted at McDonald for a month. i was always taught that if you dont think you can manage the job dont take it. and to never give up. just grit your teeth and take it. if your paying these guys 10 bucks an hour and all they do is labor work and are quieting then they are morons.

simon275
11-18-2010, 08:14 PM
Wow what a bunch of slackers.

It is true that if you are treated like **** then you will do **** work. But asking for a raise after two days. Seriously.

slaveofconvention
11-18-2010, 08:19 PM
Can I get a raise? I think, say a 30% increase will work....

Oneslowz28
11-18-2010, 08:24 PM
I too will be 27 in Jan. What really gets me is that no matter what I do, I work as hard as I can to do the best job I can. In my 3rd year of college I worked part time as the maintenance man at the apartments I lived in. Mostly 2-3 days a week. I was only required to put in 15 hours but there were times where I would put in my 15 and clock out, and still finish up my work orders because I knew they had to be done.

I know 35 and 45 year old men with a wife and 3-5 kids who will not work because "I am worth more than the market will pay me" and they live on welfare instead. I offered a guy I know a job making $12.50 an hour to cut lumber and clean up the job site when there was nothing for him to do. He has 3 kids and a wife who wont work. They live in welfare and every time I see him, all he can do is complain about how bad his life is.

When ever I see a friend from my past, they think I won the lotto or something because I own my home, drive a new truck, and dress nice. Some just say I am lucky because I went to college and had a grandfather who left me a business. But the truth is, I have what I have because I work hard for it. Sure I was left a business, but 4 months in to owning it, the housing market collapsed. I got to where I am today because I was willing to do any kind of work to keep my head above water.

Oneslowz28
11-18-2010, 08:26 PM
Can I get a raise? I think, say a 30% increase will work....

Colin, I like you so much that I will give you a 150% raise and a 30% of your annual TBCS income bonus.

You can expect a check with a lot of 0's in a few days!

slaveofconvention
11-18-2010, 09:19 PM
WOOT!!!! :banana:

Drum Thumper
11-18-2010, 09:49 PM
I thought we decided that the 150% raise was across the board for ALL members...

dr.walrus
11-18-2010, 09:49 PM
23, full time student, part time developer. Worked full time over the summer, still found time to cater for a friend's wedding over the summer, everything cooked from scratch. Start work at 9am, finish between 10pm and 2am, 5 days a week.

My dad was a builder, packed it in after an injury, went into computing. Much like yourself, his aim was that I didn't have to do that sort of work myself.

I have slow patches, but I get ill easily, and I've been ill for 8 weeks after putting in the 70-80hr weeks I have been. I have barely played a computer game for 6 months.

Spent about a year out of full time work since i was 18 (my 2nd year), worked for my dad since I was a kid. Was still developing and labouring on the side during my 2nd year.

I don't get on with my family - if everything falls apart I simply don't have anywhere to go. I have to work hard because noone else is going to do it for me.

Killa_Ape
11-18-2010, 10:21 PM
I live in Canada so wages are slightly different depending where you are. I mostly work the oilfield as an Electrician, I've been with the company for 6 years and have been there the longest next to the boss son so as a journeyman I get to deal with a lot of apprentices. Lots of the younger ones care mostly about their cell phone and when they are going home as opposed to doing work. That's how come they call me the slave driver because I want them doing work all the time not standing around talking (some days I feel like an overpaid babysitter). Now I wouldn't say all the young ones are like that but most of the younger ones are and we've had an apprentice get a good work ethic since he's started.

The farm boys have a damn good work ethic due to growing up on the farm and busting their ass all day for their family and it's quite refreshing to see them. We've had some older guys that had no work ethic either (2 of them were previously working for the union and they had gravy jobs before).

I personally have a strong work ethic and make sure things get done the right way and on time (if we have a deadline) and make sure everything is organized for the next day. I stay late if it needs to be done or fixed and won't leave until it's as far as it can go (maybe missing some parts to finish). Lots of the younger ones want to go home and go out or drink or whatever it is they do (some want to go see their family which I understand and don't have a problem with somethings are more important then work). When it comes to getting paid first year apprentices get 50% of the journeyman wage and then 60% for second year and so forth. So wage wise it's pretty set in stone but if you accel the boss gives you a little more because you are worth more then the same level of apprentice who's slacking off, when times get slow the ones who are slacking are the ones who get days off first.

For a basic laborer around here I believe starting wage is 14$ so that's why I mentioned wage difference. Companies work on wage increase as they can do more jobs (ie: more useful then just digging holes/trenches). I'm not sure what their increases are but I know for us we start someone on probation and give them $1 raise after 3months (putting them at 50% journeyman rate). So I'd say you are probably fair on your $0.50 after 6 months. The boss is also upfront about this as well so if someone asks for a raise before then he just tells them how it is and this was discussed before they started, if they have a problem with it then that's too bad for them (had 1 quit over this but was happy to see them go!)

farlo
11-18-2010, 10:23 PM
I'm 27. I've worked a full time job since i got out of high school. did a lot of temp work. then worked at wal-mart for 4 years 3rd shift in freezer and dairy, unloaded trucks, got tired of working at night and went to electronics during the day. after my second kid was born, i decided it was time to get a better paying job. I quit wal-mart when i started working at a call center for experian. I HATED that job and due to my abhorrence of that place, i ended up quitting when i got my income tax refund that year. from that point i worked doing contract jobs like setting up retail kiosks and running network cabling. i got a call from a local insurance place after seeing my resume on careerbuilder, and they convinced me to go through classes to get my health insurance producers license. i worked at that place for a couple of months doing outside sales, strictly for commissions, got fed up with that place and applied for my current job. been there for 2 years now, i sell health insurance for blue cross blue shield in 4 states over the phone to people that call in, I'm also the IT guy since the guy that was here when on to a programming job, i do the network stuff, and repair pagers XD

ive always gotten good evaluations, so i assume ive got a good work ethic.

Oneslowz28
11-18-2010, 10:44 PM
@ Killa Ape Yea I hear that its standard for Union workers to get paid like that. Down here in the Southern US the word Union is considered a curse word. Having a business degree I fully understand the advantages of having a union and the cons that come along with it. I pay the $10/hour starting wage because the help is so flaky. My oldest laborer makes just over $17/hour because I can count on him to do his job and show up every single day on time. In the last 16 years he has missed a total of 5 days with us. He is so reliable and trust worthy that we have let him borrow expensive equipment to do small side jobs on the weekend.

If I could find a young local laborer with some experience who would work 75% as fast and efficient as Jack and he made it to the 1 year mark, I would bump them to $12-13 an hour. If they lasted 2 years another raise would be in order. I firmly believe in in paying your employees what they are worth. A temp who jabber jaws on the phone all day or is sitting on his ass every time I turn around will never make more than $10/hour. But one who shows the desire to work and learn the trade will be hired on full time and will have the opportunity to get a raise and bonus.

blaze15301
11-18-2010, 10:56 PM
@ Killa Ape Yea I hear that its standard for Union workers to get paid like that. Down here in the Southern US the word Union is considered a curse word. Having a business degree I fully understand the advantages of having a union and the cons that come along with it. I pay the $10/hour starting wage because the help is so flaky. My oldest laborer makes just over $17/hour because I can count on him to do his job and show up every single day on time. In the last 16 years he has missed a total of 5 days with us. He is so reliable and trust worthy that we have let him borrow expensive equipment to do small side jobs on the weekend.

If I could find a young local laborer with some experience who would work 75% as fast and efficient as Jack and he made it to the 1 year mark, I would bump them to $12-13 an hour. If they lasted 2 years another raise would be in order. I firmly believe in in paying your employees what they are worth. A temp who jabber jaws on the phone all day or is sitting on his ass every time I turn around will never make more than $10/hour. But one who shows the desire to work and learn the trade will be hired on full time and will have the opportunity to get a raise and bonus.

what state do you live in. id love to work for your company.

blueonblack
11-18-2010, 11:14 PM
Ok, I'll bite. The first five years of my work life were just like that. In and out of jobs one after the other, but not because I didn't think I made enough or they treated me badly: I just didn't care. I had everything I needed handed to me (this started at age 16) and no one had bothered to explain the Real World to me. I had a wake-up call at 21 that lasted two and a half years. I did a lot of growing up during that time, and had a full-time job three days after it ended, and haven't gone more than two days without one since.

I've got no formal education beyond high school. I've been at with my current employer for over fifteen years. I've been lucky in that I've been able to switch positions a few times. Once I master something to the point that I feel like a robot doing it, it just sucks. I've been the parts guy, a mechanic, the guy who pays the bills for repairs, and the guy arranges the repairs. I seem to be at the end of my career path there and I would honestly rather dig ditches in the rain than do what I do. You mentioned taking pride in your work, and there is not a shred of that to be had in my position. Unfortunately, I have a family to feed and ditch digging doesn't pay well. So I keep going back. They recently decided to switch my shift around and cut my pay by about eight dollars an hour but I still go back, because even with that pay cut I still make more than anyone else is going to pay me. If I were single, or even just childless, I'd be out in a heartbeat, just for my own sanity, but that's not an option. At least for another thirteen years or so.

So in answer to what I think is your question, yes I have a strong work ethic. I like nothing more than to stand back and see a job well done, and I take my obligations seriously. I can't speak for anywhere else, but around here if you're not working it's because you don't want to. As for these kids that come and go because they feel entitled, I say let them. That feeling of entitlement will get sanded off of them soon enough. Yes, they piss me off, but I can smile a little inside looking at what they have in front of them that they haven't seen coming yet.

x88x
11-19-2010, 02:21 AM
I've never really understood the whole "I'm worth more than you're paying me" stance. I forget where I heard it first, but my philosophy on it is this: Your time/work/knowledge/etc is only worth as much as someone will pay you for it. Maybe you are worth more to somebody else, but obviously you're not worth more to me, otherwise I would be paying you respectively.

I'm 22, and have been working part or full time steadily for the last 5.25 years except for a two month period in 2008...but that's a different story. Before that (ie, high school), I never really had a job, but I did a fair amount of volunteer work and, tbh, I never really had much use for money. Not because my parents picked up the tab for everything (though they did pay for my car insurance as long as my grades stayed up), just because I didn't have much to spend money on.

My dad does home improvement/cabinetry/etc on the side, and while I was living with my parents I helped him with that work as long back as I can remember. Granted, I imagine I wasn't much use for a long time, but how many 10 year olds know what a radial arm saw is and know how to use one properly, eh? Once me helping on those jobs was more of a help than a hindrance, he would even cut me in on the payment once the job was done, and I think it was through that kind of work that I developed the work ethic I have now. One thing I should note about the work my dad does, he does it entirely on commission, not at an hourly rate, so he makes an estimate on how much it will cost, and we would get paid the same if it took 10 hours as if it took 50 hours. As such, he always pushed both me and himself to not waste any time doing the job, but one of the principles that he instilled in me is that if a job is worth doing, it is worth doing properly, regardless of what you are being paid. Another result of working with him on those jobs is that, oddly (apparently), I really enjoy a good, hard day's work. Sure, I can get paid more sitting at my desk coding, but I get a lot more satisfaction out of building something, whether it's a computer, a house, or even just a ditch. I love being able to look at a finished product and being able to say with pride that yes, I made that, and I made it to the best of my abilities....and if that wasn't enough, I improved my abilities and went back and made it better. :D

When I was a full-time student, I always had a part-time job on campus. I never really understood people who didn't...to me, my job was a rest from the academic environment where I could settle in to a more directly productive task, where I could concentrate on actually doing something purposeful with an immediate affect. Plus, I got paid, so I always had a bit of spending money. :D

I have switched roles now, working full-time and going to school part-time, and tbh I'm much happier this way. My biggest problem with the academic environment was people who were there either because they had nothing better to do or because it was easier for them to accumulate student loans than to actually do work. I've been at my current job for almost 2.5 years now, and been in and out of lulls and busy periods, but I've never had anything but praise from any of my supervisors, so I must be doing good. :P We had an intern this summer though, who seems a lot like the kids you had working for you...he accomplished literally nothing the entire time he worked there, but because his supervisor worked off-site, it took quite a while before anyone noticed..yeah, he didn't get a job once his internship was over...actually almost got fired. The strangest thing is that even near the end of the summer, he still was convinced that he would be getting a job. :?

I haven't always enjoyed the job I've been doing at the moment, but the thing that I have noticed that affects that the most is whether I am actually being productive. I have had jobs where all I did was sit around all day and wait for someone to call in with a problem. I worked in tech support for a while, and while I did get paid fairly well at both positions, they were on the whole, the most boring, unsatisfying jobs I have ever had. For me, there is nothing worse than being on the job and having literally nothing to do, and there is nothing I can do about it. One of those jobs was as the on-site tech at a middle school. For some reason, somebody decided it would be a great idea to keep the tech's on their normal jobs...during the summer... I would go in, sit down at my desk, watch TV, study whatever I was teaching myself at the moment, eat lunch, go back to reading or watching TV, and leave. ..that was my normal day once the school year ended, and if I'd had to do it for more than the ~1 month that I did, I seriously think I would have gone mad.

So, to answer the question, yes, I have (I think) quite a good work ethic. Yes, unfortunately, that seems to be rather rare in my generation (20-24). Also unfortunately, it seems to be the expected norm in our society today for people that age. People expect them to be that way, and they are. I'm not saying it's an excuse, and idk which one came first, but either way you look at it, I think it's a problem. I remember a discussion last semester in a sociology course I was taking; we were talking about the roles of children in society, and it was interesting to me to see people's responses to certain situations. For example, in the early 1900's, it was normal for a 10-12 year old child to be left in charge of the younger children on a farm while the parents were out working. Several people were horrified by this, and expressed that they would never trust their children to someone that young...they're too irresponsible. And that's the thing, at that time, people were raised with an expectation of responsibility and integrity, and I feel like the further on we go, the less and less this becomes the case. I always think it's so odd when I talk to people about my life atm. They're always, "Oh, ok, you're a Software Engineer and Network Security Specialist for a large company, ok, you're making $xx,xxx/year (the internet doesn't need to know :P ), ok, you're a part-time student, you make lots of cool stuff in your spare time, ok, you recently bought a house, ok...wait, what? You're 22??" You can almost see the gears spinning in their heads.. "But...you're not supposed to be like that...you're supposed to be a drug-addled hoodlum who can't hold a job to save his life...wtf?"

Oh, and asking for a raise on your second day at a job?? That's just absurd. I completely support saving up to go to Burning Man ;) , but come one, use some common sense. BTW, imo $10/hr starting wage is quite good for what essentially (at that stage, from what I gathered) amounts to mostly unskilled manual labor. Heck, that's almost what I was making in tech support at that middle school.

d_stilgar
11-19-2010, 05:42 AM
I'm 24. Two summers ago I got a job working a build site in Vegas. I would work as hard as I possibly could but never felt like I was doing enough. This was mostly due to my supervisor telling me how bad and slow I was at everything. Later, his supervisor tells me that he is hard on all his workers but that he thinks I'm doing a great job.

About a month later they hire a couple temp guys. We are assigned to move all the supplies from one room to another. I was about to make 10 trips up and down stairs and from one end of the building to the other more than the two temp guys. I calculated it out and figured that I was doing the work of three of those guys. They kept telling me to slow down and that it didn't matter. I told them they should work harder or not come back.

A while later my supervisor went home to visit his family for a few days. I was put in charge despite the fact that I only had a month's experience and was relatively new to the job site.

People need to work as hard as they can in no matter what job they are given. People aren't paid to give partial effort. An honest day's pay requires and honest day's work.

Now I'm at a landscape job where my boss tells me that we have to work at a certain pace in order to be on schedule in repeating the same thing every week (mowing, pulling weeds, weed whacking, edging, etc.). Mowing isn't the sort of job that you benefit from doing as fast you can. If you finish early you don't have any reason to go back and do it again. The grass won't be long yet. Suffice to say, I still find things to do when I finish early but it's been one of the nicest jobs I've ever had.

Oneslowz28
11-19-2010, 09:37 AM
I forgot to say that for the jobs I have been ranting about here, I will hire just about anyone as long as they check out and and seem to want to work. That's the thing about the construction industry, unless you are working in the front office, you need minimal education. Everything you need to know about the trade can be learned on the job from a skilled trades man. My carpenter will teach you anything you want to know if you show him you are willing to learn. Same thing with the masons and journeymen. They may be a little hard on the new guys but they know not to call names, or constantly belittle them, because that is not productive. They also know I absolutely hate it and will send them home for the day if I see it happening.

I have a new guy who will be there today. I really hope he works out because he is a friend of one of my carpenters. He is on the verge of loosing his home and came from a commercial construction background. So maybe he will workout and stay around for a while.

This epidemic where people are not willing to work is only getting worse. We get about 20-30 people calling every week wanting us to sign off on their unemployment saying we do not need help so they can continue to get $250 a week for sitting on their ass. We always decline unless they are legitimately looking for a position we do not need any help in. I will offer the ones I answer a job and they always refuse saying $10/hr is not enough and they can do nothing and make more in food stamps and unemployment.

Cale_Hagan
11-19-2010, 11:23 AM
well, ive been @ target 2 and a half years now... its true what they say about the people you work with, they make it or break it. i bust my rear doing whatever they need, and they are always calling me in, because im their go to guy.:D ill do whatever, and been trained almost everywhere. im a team trainer because i show exemplary skills on the floor, and always do it right. im not above doing cart attending, which includes cleaning restrooms and the like, which most wouldn't do. also, multiple times ive been complemented for my thoroughness. ive only complained about 1 person to an exec ever in my two years. he was my team leader, but had the attitude of " you are the worker, and i am the upper management, and basically i can do whatever i want" type of attitude, and" you are expendable":eek: i called him on it like 3-4 times, and talked with him, and everytime he blew me off. finally the4th time or so he did that, when he wasnt even doing his job properly, i went to see the store manager. he was gone within 1-2 days.:rolleyes: i know he has had other people complain, but due to the facts i gave the store manager, with the validity, that tl was gone. it bugs me the people at my work who take the attitude of " im only getting 8.50, so why should i work hard?:eek:" i just want to say, because you accepted that job at that paygrade, so you should either do it right, or quit." but i cant say that. cause i like my job. so in short, i have an amazing work ethic.:banana: just look at my sig ive had for a while, that should help expain some.8)

mDust
11-19-2010, 12:12 PM
I will offer the ones I answer a job and they always refuse saying $10/hr is not enough and they can do nothing and make more in food stamps and unemployment.
Shoot them. Say..."Gee, I thought $10/hr would be just fine...how does $25/hr to start sound?" When they come in, just shoot them. I'll do it for you for cheap if you like. We can't let these animals breed and raise kids in their own image. Imagine society in 50 years...:( Uncle Sam would probably look the other way while flashing an AOK.

x88x
11-19-2010, 04:13 PM
I will offer the ones I answer a job and they always refuse saying $10/hr is not enough and they can do nothing and make more in food stamps and unemployment.

...seriously? Welfare is more than $400/week? That's just absurd... -_^

Oneslowz28
11-19-2010, 04:35 PM
Well I am done for the day. The guys are knocking off in 30 min and the initial word on the new guy is that he may be a keeper. Time will tell.

SXRguyinMA
11-19-2010, 04:39 PM
my brother doesn't work, he collects ss and disability. he worked a few different jobs, but couldnt pay rent, etc because he was getting ~$7-$8/hr. He quit and started collecting again and makes twice from ss and disability than he did working!

I agree that it's bs that he's collecting, but he's got pretty bad ADHD and learning disabilities, so college and learning advanced skills aren't going to happen for him. TBH I'm VERY proud of him for the fact that he's living on his own, and supporting a wife and son

msmrx57
11-19-2010, 04:53 PM
...seriously? Welfare is more than $400/week? That's just absurd... -_^

Why do you think so many people can live off it? The more rugrats they crank out the more they get.

Oneslowz28
11-19-2010, 06:22 PM
my brother doesn't work, he collects ss and disability. he worked a few different jobs, but couldnt pay rent, etc because he was getting ~$7-$8/hr. He quit and started collecting again and makes twice from ss and disability than he did working!

I agree that it's bs that he's collecting, but he's got pretty bad ADHD and learning disabilities, so college and learning advanced skills aren't going to happen for him. TBH I'm VERY proud of him for the fact that he's living on his own, and supporting a wife and son

Its situations like that where I am ok with people living on SSI or Disability. What I can not stand are the people who are perfectly able to get out and dig a ditch, rod bust, or shovel concrete to support their family.

The other thing I hate is when those people (the too lazy to work) are the first to speak up about economic conditions, or complain about tax legislation. That same friend I mentioned who thinks hes worth more than his skill set will pay is always complaining about taxes being too high and how the economy is killing him......... I just want to go into SNL "Really" mode, and when I am finished, slap him so hard his great great grandmother feels it.

Diamon
11-19-2010, 07:24 PM
I'm currently in school but we have periods when we work in the factory that's owning the school (the SKF ball/roller bearing company) to get some real-life experience. And I got paired with a class mate. He's exactly like that, wondering why we should work so hard and getting mad at me when I stayed for five minutes longer to finish an assignment the production technician had given us.

I'd say about half the class is that way, and I don't see many in the class that I consider to be just competent people.

Have you read "Atlas shrugged"? Gives you a pretty grim forecast but hopefully it won't go that far.

Airbozo
11-19-2010, 07:37 PM
Shoot them. Say..."Gee, I thought $10/hr would be just fine...how does $25/hr to start sound?" When they come in, just shoot them. I'll do it for you for cheap if you like. We can't let these animals breed and raise kids in their own image. Imagine society in 50 years...:( Uncle Sam would probably look the other way while flashing an AOK.

I know I am jumping in here late, but could resist no longer.


I come from a family that has made a living off of welfare. They still do. My mother was perfectly able to work, but didn't _want_ to. Hell she even had a college degree, but felt that the world owed her something so she did nothing except collect food stamps and welfare, drink coffee and smoke cigarettes all day. One of my sisters is now doing the same thing. Hell, half my _blood_ family is like this. They and all of their friends work harder at getting and keeping their welfare than they ever would in a normal job paying the same amount.

At an early age, it was apparent to me that my mom was not going to share her hard earned food with us kids so at the age of 13 I started work full time hanging drywall. I was lucky at the time that my JR. High School was on a block schedule and I was able to get the morning classes. I would get up at 6am, go to school, then leave at 11:30 to go to work for 8 hours. When my mom found out, she demanded my paycheck and even went to court to force my employer to send it to her since I was a minor. I talked to the guy that hired me and I "officially" quit and started working under the table. This went on for over a year. Something I recently found out (just a couple of years ago), is that my employer had rehired me and was paying my SS all that time, but denied I was an employee to my mom.

When I was 14 a couple in the apartments I lived in, found out what was happening and asked that I come live with them, stop working and go back to school. They eventually adopted me (after a nasty court battle with my mom) and I took their last name (my original last name was not from my mother or father and I have no idea where it came from). Even though my "new" parents had good intentions, I was still not their flesh and blood and they did/do treat me differently. I never felt part of their family. I turned to work to get my appreciation and self worth. It worked too well.

I work hard. I play hard. One is the reward from the other, but at times I get confused as to which is which. I mostly choose jobs that are fun to me, but in times of need I have been known to work 3 jobs including glass cleaner at the local car wash. Just about whatever it takes (yes I do have a hint of morals and ethics). My love of work has cost me my family (I am shunned as the white sheep), friends and almost cost me the most important thing in my life. My wife. It took me a couple of years to understand why, but once I was confronted with the cold truth, I saw it and knew I needed to change something or lose the one person in my life that has shown me real love. That said, I am still a work-a-holic, I just don't bring it home with me.

Right or wrong, I do judge people based on work ethic. I can't stand slackers and at work if I have to say something to you twice about your work, the second time comes with a pink slip. I just cannot stand people who show up only for the pay check and will always call them on it. One guy here (no not my boss this time) thinks he is ONLY responsible for his little area, when in fact, during times of high volume, EVERYONE pitches in. During an end of year or end of quarter rush, it is not uncommon to see me or a sales guy running the foam machine in the warehouse or driving the fork lift to load a truck. I said something to him once and he gave me an attitude. I had the COO of the company go talk with him and he has been quite helpful ever since. Now to work on my boss.

My adopted parents did try to influence me and I learned a couple of valuable lessons from both of them.
One was that the best work is play. At first I never really got it, until my second or third real job. When you love what you do, it is easy to go to work and the day flies by.
One of the other things I learned from them is that if you pick a career, be the best at it. The best in the world. If that is not possible (it rarely is), then learn to do more than one or two things to support yourself and you will never be out of a job. I think sometimes that I took this one too far. I know how to do many many things to keep myself employed and busy. It seems though, that I always come back to computers since that is my first love. All my extra skills have helped me in one way or another multiple times over. Hell just learning the construction trades I have saved tens of thousands of dollars remodeling my home the last couple of years. And I am still a master taper.

When pay day rolls around I always have a question in the back of my mind; Did I really earn this? Even though I know I did.

OK ramble off...

msmrx57
11-19-2010, 07:37 PM
my brother doesn't work, he collects ss and disability. he worked a few different jobs, but couldnt pay rent, etc because he was getting ~$7-$8/hr. He quit and started collecting again and makes twice from ss and disability than he did working!

I agree that it's bs that he's collecting, but he's got pretty bad ADHD and learning disabilities, so college and learning advanced skills aren't going to happen for him. TBH I'm VERY proud of him for the fact that he's living on his own, and supporting a wife and son

Disability and welfare are NOT the same thing. A big difference is you brother tried. I know of way too many people who won't even bother trying. I'll admit right now I'm collecting unemployment. Hopefully I'll be called back to my job as this was a slow down layoff. If I were to find out for sure that won't happen it's time to look for a job. I hate this situation but the job paid well enough that unemployment is more than I'd make working for anything less than $11 and hour. I'd much rather be working, but I am getting a bunch of stuff around the house taken care of.


Its situations like that where I am ok with people living on SSI or Disability. What I can not stand are the people who are perfectly able to get out and dig a ditch, rod bust, or shovel concrete to support their family.

The other thing I hate is when those people (the too lazy to work) are the first to speak up about economic conditions, or complain about tax legislation. That same friend I mentioned who thinks hes worth more than his skill set will pay is always complaining about taxes being too high and how the economy is killing him......... I just want to go into SNL "Really" mode, and when I am finished, slap him so hard his great great grandmother feels it.

This. I can't complain because the bills are getting paid. If that changes or the possibility of not being called back changes I start looking. I'm not working right now because I can afford not to. This is the longest I've gone since I was 17 without a job and it's starting to drive me nuts. I'm hoping to find out sometime between Thanksgiving and Xmas. I work(ed) at a Sara Lee bakery (hot as h#$l year round) their North American bakery division to a company based in Mexico. It would be nice to know one way or another. I'm absolutely not afraid or hard work. I've spent one summer workin on a farm(hard) another summer manually digging trenches for drainage tile(harder). I've also been a partner in a small business. I'm 41 now so some of the physical work I might be a little slower than I used to be. I've got no formal education so my options are slightly limited, but I've also got a class A CDL so if all else fails I go back on the road. As far as work ethic I know I'm not the best, but when there's a job to do I'll do it to the best of my ability. Wow kinda got rambling there.

BuzzKillington
11-19-2010, 08:20 PM
I'm 21 and make sure to never complain about what I'm asked to do, even if it's in left field from my position. Because of this I've done just about every position at the club I work at and then some.

I've been asked some pretty weird things... from making food trips, mopping, making orders for the club, tech work, "going on a mission to find nightmare on elm street DVD somewhere", filling in for security and so on... From this I doubled my pay within a month from 220 a week to ~430 a week and had security added to my schedule.
I've always been a hard worker but I believe 3.5 months at MCRD helped me realize the true potential that's beyond what would have normally been the breaking point and it feels like 40 hours of work isn't enough... I've been searching for a part time job to fill in my 3 days off or possibly some short shifts before work. If I could get an extra 20 hours or so I'd be content.
I think what it boils down to is my generation wants something for nothing and feels entitled to more without working for it. I enjoy hard work because it feels like I'm doing something and if it's extremely hard work, it's just motivation to work harder and get it done faster.

Oneslowz28
11-19-2010, 08:36 PM
I know I am jumping in here late, but could resist no longer.


I come from a family that has made a living off of welfare. They still do. My mother was perfectly able to work, but didn't _want_ to. Hell she even had a college degree, but felt that the world owed her something so she did nothing except collect food stamps and welfare, drink coffee and smoke cigarettes all day. One of my sisters is now doing the same thing. Hell, half my _blood_ family is like this. They and all of their friends work harder at getting and keeping their welfare than they ever would in a normal job paying the same amount.

OK ramble off...

I have a side of my family who is like that. They all worked in the cotton mills here for minimum wage or a few cents above it until the mills closed down and moved to Asia. They would convince their children to quit school or not care enough to get good grades because "there will always be work in the mills" So my cousins all slacked off in school, were druggies, and drunks. They either dropped out, got expelled or graduated by the skin of their teeth. Then about 6 years ago a train derailed in the part of the county where all the mills were located. A car carrying a full load of chlorine tipped over and busted open. The resulting gas destroyed the electrical in the mills and ruined the machines. This was the final nail in the coffin and Avondale moved their operation to China and India. A whole branch of my family tree was out of work literally over night. They to this day have trouble finding work because they have no usable skills and they were raised to do the bare minimum when it came to work. My great grandmother and grandfather both worked in the same mills in the 30s-70s and both moved up into management positions and both retired with pensions. Their kids (sans my grandmother who was a farmer at one point owned 2 bars and then owned a flooring company) worked their whole lives in the same mills and all did very well. It was not until the 3rd generation that the laziness kicked in. There are some of my cousins who to this day would rather live in a rundown rotting shack than come work for me and earn $400 a week and get their life together.

Thankfully my grandmother broke the mill work tradition and went her own way. She did struggle some but she will be the first to tell you that she has worked for everything she has ever owned. Just last month I paid for half of her stay in the rehab facility she was in for her broken hip. I did this because I wanted her to have cable TV, the nice meal plan, and a phone in her room. It was just under $1000. Yesterday when I went to see her, she slipped a check for $926 in my shirt pocket. When I refused she said that I either take it myself or she would deposit it in my bank for me.

I have never met someone with the will power and work ethic of my mother. My father skipped out on us when I was 3. My mom was 24 years old and had to move in with my great grandmother. She quit tech school and took up a janitorial job at one of those mills I mentioned earlier. She busted her ass and managed to send me to a private kindergarten that cost $1600 a year. That was a lot of $$ when you were earning $3.50 an hour. Then when I was 5 my mom was introduced to this man who went to her church and who's mother was my grandmothers good friend. They got married and a few months later had my sister. He left a week after she told him she was pregnant. He lost custody and was ordered to pay child support. He never did. (The bastard got what was coming to him though. He died a painful death from leukemia in 2007) So now my mother had 2 children to clothe, feed, and raise by herself. She never lost faith or hope and continued to push a broom for years. She made sure my sister and I had everything we needed and we were always happy. My mother went with out nice clothes, nice cars, and any of the typical stuff women in their 20s and 30s like. She took every chance she got to work a few hours of over time, or attend any training the company offered and over the years she worked her way up to area manager. She had at one point 250 people under her. Now she works at a university, managing their environmental services department and making a comfortable living by local standards. Shes not wealthy and may never be, but shes happy and she knows she as earned it. My father abandoned a total (that we know of) of 4 kids. I have an older half sister and a younger half brother and sister (twins) by him. He has not made an attempt to contact any of us since we were very young children. He has never held a job for more than a few weeks, he is a crystal meth addict and last I heard, he has cancer, although my aunt seems to think its another one of his cons to get money from the family.

I have yet to meet the woman I want to settle down and start a family with, so I have no idea what its like to be a father. I can not fathom the weight that is placed on your shoulders when you have a family to support, but I do know one thing. When I do start a family, I will do what ever it takes to support them. Even if it means getting on my hands and knees and mucking out peoples septic tanks. I will be damned if I leave a legacy like my father.

Oneslowz28
11-19-2010, 08:56 PM
I think what it boils down to is my generation wants something for nothing and feels entitled to more without working for it. I enjoy hard work because it feels like I'm doing something and if it's extremely hard work, it's just motivation to work harder and get it done faster.

It's not just the sense of entitlement it also has something to do with the fact that since the early 80s parents have praised their kids for doing everything. If the kid wiped his on ass it was "aww that was a very very good job little timmy" or when he / she finished coloring out of the lines his / her 40,000 picture it was "Suzy that is the best picture I have ever seen!" We had graduation ceremonies every year from 4k - 6th grade. We were treated like the world revolved around us and were told that we could be anything we wanted and to never settle for anything less than what we wanted. Some of that is all fine and dandy, but lets face it. A child with an IQ of 65 will never be the next history changing physicist, nor will he be the next astronaut. That child genius with an IQ of 140 will never become the next Einstein or Gates if he is not taught to work hard for what he wants. To top that off today's popular culture has created a whole generation of idiots who think that because they can rhyme a few words they will be the next Dr. Dre. It has taught them that it is ok to be a dope boy and sell crack to get by. Hollywood and California law officials have shown us that it is now ok to become a drug addict and live life care free with out fear of repercussions because you can go to rehab and everything will be fine. Then these same actors and actresses are touted as roll models and mentors to look up to because they were clean for 3 weeks.

Hell my whole life I have had 1 dream. I have always wanted to be a millionaire. That dream ruled my life for a little bit and who knows, if the housing market ever picks back up, I may just become one. But the way it looks now, I will never reach that goal. The thing is, that is not really bothering me that much. I have a nice life and I am happy with the way things are.

Kayin
11-19-2010, 10:46 PM
I'd like to say to all those looking at jobs they aren't particularly enamored of-be glad you can still work.

I was let go from my job in March because I could no longer do the work after an accident that happened on the clock. Yes, they paid the hospital bills but after the fact support did not exist. There have been multiple threads about the idiocy of this employer though, so no need to keep dragging them around.

Yes, I can draw disability, but you know what? It's boring! I worked my tail off for years, after realizing how good work made me feel. Now, the only part of me I can coerce to work properly is my brain. Yes, I'm hard at work for ME doing things like making nanofluids, thermal compounds and the media center that is currently threatening my cat, but it's not the same.

Ladies and gentlemen, enjoy it while you got it. You never know when you won't.

CJ, Bozo, I know WAYYYY too much about situations like that. I think if the threeof us sat down to swap stories after a while we'd all be telling the same one-but we prove we need not be defined by it. Wish these little punks out there would get that through their heads.

CJ, I'd see if you had a job if I were local and I thought I could get a chair that did outdoors well...

x88x
11-19-2010, 11:08 PM
and I thought I could get a chair that did outdoors well...

That sounds like a challenge. :twisted:

Diamon
11-20-2010, 08:29 AM
The work ethics of the people in this thread gave me an idea. How about making a place where you can look for work or employees, sort of like the "for sale" and "items and services or wanted", that is only visible for users that has a certain amount of rep and/or posts? I realize that it probably won't be a lot going on in those threads but if one user can find a job or a new employee they're happy with it'd be worth it.

What do you think?

SXRguyinMA
11-20-2010, 11:03 AM
speaking of which....any updates on that TBCS artist position CJ? :D

Lothair
11-21-2010, 08:37 AM
I'm a bit late into the discussion and I'm not sure if it's still relevant, but here's my bit about work ethic.

I'll give 90% to 100% regardless of the job. Anything less always seems to result in negative experiences in the work place and you aren't likely to make progress or advance at that place of work. All in all, doing an acceptable to good job seems to be in the average persons best interest.

If I know I'm getting paid better than most people in my field or if I feel I'm getting paid more than what I deserve, then I'll put in 100% to 110% of my effort. Again, this only seems to lead to positive experiences in the work-place and it's just good practice.

That's my work ethic, anyways. At home... it's completely different. If I'm not getting paid then as far as I'm concerned I'm paying for the time off, so I'm certainly going to enjoy it however I like, whether that be being messy, lazy or otherwise. :p

Konrad
11-22-2010, 07:39 PM
$10/hr with a $0.50 raise after six months? That's a rough living. People who are motivated will invest in upgrading their worth by moving out of the ranks of unskilled and semiskilled, get a ticket or whatever, earn a profession. I'm not judging your wages as being unfair, Oneslow, just saying that slackers will keep finding themselves looking at the same job/payscale options while hard workers will choose more lucrative career paths. Consequently, it's not so much of a surprise to me that many of your applicants turn out to be slackers or move on to other things. I've done enough labour in my time to understand the physical demands, and started a couple of (ultimately failed) small businesses so I can appreciate diligent effort pays off. I worked through school as a line cook for about a decade, not as physical as labour but demanding enough (and so what? you get so used to it you hardly notice after a few months); I noticed that people with goals were self-motivated and always kept themselves productive, whereas people with "a job" (mostly kids and burnouts) would only meet minimal requirements unless someone's riding on their ass; I had to deal with stupid **** like people constantly wasting time on clandestine phone-texting or being carelessly unpunctual instead of being responsible professionals. Showing up late at work (trying to hide a hangover) and getting bitchy 'cause you can't go offline and have a smoke break for a whole two hours just aren't acceptable; I notice that the work performance of the "losers" is directly related to how quickly they spend their money after payday.

Sure you can offer a payscale that's a notch up, say $12/hr to start, and thereby attract more applicants from which to select better employees (plus "motivate" a few to remain loyal to you because they're a little too lazy to look for something more comfortable). I don't want to sound like a hardass, but in the end it's not a charity and the employer rightfully has certain expectations. There's a lot of industries where ruthless hiring practices keep workers a little lean and competitive (apparently Future Shop tallies up all their sales figures each month and automatically fires/replaces whoever is at the bottom of the list, no exceptions, so I've heard; probably explains why the sales staff are all sharks).

In my workplace there aren't any nonskilled workers; you just can't "steal a trade" these days the way you could have a generation earlier. Get school or be doomed to a lifetime of minimum wage; if you can't even be serious about your job, no matter how "lowly" you think it is, then you don't deserve to ever see a raise. It's not like you have to stay (or be kept) in a job you don't really think is worth your time; if you're worth enough to have options, that is. Demanding quality, efficiency, performance, and reliability is as important in oneself as it would be in a computer. I notice that a common misconception in society is that you can't have more than one job or look for another job when you're working - looking for work only when you're unemployed (and will take whatever you can get quick) is the worst path towards earning a living.

Oneslowz28
11-22-2010, 08:12 PM
$10/hr starting out is a very fair wage here for unskilled labor. It's actually about $2 more per hour than my competitors pay their laborers. They do not stay at that $10 for ever. If they work out they get $.50 raise at 6 months and another $0.50 - $1 after the year mark. I have 2 laborers on "my crew" (other crew is commercial out of town work) One is Jack who makes a good bit more than $12/hr and the new guy who's at $10 and actually beat everyone but my foreman to the job this morning. I took him to lunch today so I could get to know him. He spent the last 9 years running large CAT excavators. The company he worked for was a subsidy of a much larger development firm. When things got tight they liquidated the site work side of the company and with that so went his job. He was earning $26.75 an hour with full benefits and a pension plan. He spent the last 3 months looking for work where he could stay close to his family. He found nothing. So when my one of my guys told him we could use him as labor, he jumped on the chance. I asked him if he is happy with the wage I offered him, and he said yes but asked me if we could revisit it in a year. I said yes. If he shows as much initiative over the next 6 months that he has showed in the last 2 days, then I will consider bumping him to $14 and if we get any site work or lot clearing jobs, then he can run the equipment for me for $20/hr just so I don't have to myself.

Back to the $10/hour thing though. The cost of living is very low here. Gas has stayed around $2.40/gallon for the last 2 years, we have only a 3% tax on our food (7% on everything else) Property taxes are low, you can buy a 2500 sq ft home for about $200k, goods are usually 10-20% cheaper than in more populated areas. Electricity is about $0.10 KW/hr, Water is very very very cheap. 10,000 gallons would only run me about $4 but 90% of the population have wells. An average Dr visit runs about $60. Public School runs about $40 for registration, and kids ride the school bus for free. We do not have to pay for garbage service if we do not want to. (public compactors and bins every 10 miles or so).

You will be very hard pressed around here to find a job that requires no skills or education that pays over $7.50 an hour. So I feel my wage is very fair. Everyone who works for us is offered a chance to learn any of the jobs on the job site. That is one of my rules. I believe that it pays to have more than 2 or 3 people who can run a single job. This way if the crew gets hit with the flu or something, one of the other guys can take up the slack. I was a certified mason by 17, had training one everything from a little ditch witch to a $500,000 excavator. The concrete truck guys even taught me how to operate their trucks. Before I left for college I could do basic framing, basic electrical, and most all plumbing. I could read blueprints at 14 and was laying out foundations and digging them by my self with a case trencher at 15. My Grandfather thought it was important that everyone on his job sites knew how to do everyone else's jobs.

x88x
11-22-2010, 08:27 PM
Get school or be doomed to a lifetime of minimum wage
Not true. In my experience, experience is the core necessity. Education helps that a lot, and in some fields you won't progress past a certain point unless you have a degree, but I know lots of people who make a nice amount of money (some in the 6-figure range) who don't have any degrees past HS. This is especially true in the skilled labor fields, like the work that CJ is talking about. Carpenters, plumbers, electricians, etc, all make very good money, but in most cases in skilled labor professions, experience is gained..well, like CJ is talking about, through working under more skilled people.

Regarding the pay rate, it all depends on the area you live in. True, where I live now $400/week would be barely enough to get by (considering rent), but when I was a tech at that middle school (well, I worked at the middle school, I was technically a county employee who happened to be stationed there), I made the starting rate of ~$26,000/year...not much more than CJ's $10/hr for (at that stage) unskilled labor. In that area, as long as I didn't live down-town, that was enough to live...well, I wouldn't say comfortably, but you wouldn't have to scrape to get by. Raises at that tech position were set in stone at something like 3-4% each year (if you passed your performance eval), so imo, CJ's pay increase system is better too. ;)

Forgot to mention, federal minimum wage (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_U.S._minimum_wages) is $7.25 in the US, so $10 is actually a nice big chunk (proportionately) over that.



looking for work only when you're unemployed (and will take whatever you can get quick) is the worst path towards earning a living.

I completely agree on this point. Personally I would never quite a job until I have accepted an offer somewhere else.

diluzio91
11-22-2010, 11:01 PM
off the current discussion, but at work tonight i was covering 2 stations during a rush, and we had a guy who didnt have anyone at his station just staring off into space, and the person next to him had to leave, so 1 person was sitting at a station 3 feet from this guy for about 4 min, and i had to walk over and take care of the customer then rush back to my other 2 stations and bust through the ~12 people i had in line. when i asked him to cover the next station because everyone else was busy he just said "im just on pasta"... idiotic ass... needless to say i told the manager, and he got to be the last one to go home, and got to wash all the tables (in a college cafeteria) after my manager "accidentaly" put away the gloves. [the sanitizer we use at work makes your hands itch like crazy if you dont have gloves on]... [/rant]

x88x
11-22-2010, 11:24 PM
Aaahh, working in a college cafeteria...that brings back memories. ...not a lot of good ones, mind you, but memories nonetheless. :P My favorite was working either drinks because I worked really hard for about 30 minutes of my 3 hour shift and the rest was pretty slack, or loading the dishwasher because it was nonstop fast paced the entire time. :D Funny thing...the best manager I had working in the dishroom...is now my brother-in-law. :P

Konrad
11-23-2010, 12:54 AM
3% food tax, 7% on everything else, cheap fuel, power, and water ... hell, I should move. I pay 14% HST (and sometimes added GST & PST at ~7% each) across the board on everything, plus income tax robbery, expensive power (odd how BC's mega hydroelectric plants and natural gas plants charge the locals more than they charge California...), at least gas station prices are roughly comparable when you convert units. Bigger wages, bigger rents, and higher costs in the city. Minimum is $8/hr (I think) and $10/hr here isn't even enough for a starving student with pot-smoking roomies. Lots of immigrants (without English or even French) fill in the minimum wage jobs, a lot of exclusive ethnic enclave hiring is perceived in many trades. Without education or a ticket in something or your own business you've simply got no chance here. Experience matters but your "demonstrated track record" and what-have-you-done-for-me-lately tends to matter a lot more.

Oneslowz28
11-23-2010, 12:47 PM
Well there is still an income tax and it varies from 15% to 25% for my guys (estimates) and I have to take out social security and medicare out. My guy making $400 a week will bring home $320 on average, but we usually work 45 or so hours a week and I pay the guys for 40 ours even if we work 36. I mean you could buy a home around here if you are making $15/hr. It wouldn't be a nice new home but would be a decent 1970-80s ranch style for like $70k-100K with between 1 and 2 acres of land. New land in the country is running about 11k an acre off prime and prime is running about $20k/acre. It's a different story in my sub division. A half acre lot will run you between 80k and 300k depending on what sub neighborhood you want to live in.

I own about 80 acres out on my grandfathers land and there are about 300 more that will be split up between 5 of us when my grandmother passes. My grandfathers great grandfather paid less than $1 an acre for it back in the day. He owned something like 16k acres here at one point and either lost most of it or it was sold during hard times because only about 1000 acres are still owned by my family (most is owned by distant relatives) With my land having about 20 acres of a 46 acre pond on it, I have a good bit of waterfront and could sell it for between 15k and 20k an acre. But I will one day build my dream home there. I really do miss living in the country.

SXRguyinMA
11-23-2010, 11:41 PM
any chance you'd want to build your dream duplex there? I'll even chip in for the private dock for the ski :devious:

x88x
11-24-2010, 12:52 AM
Ok, it's decided. When the zombie apocalypse happens I'm coming down to your place, CJ. ;)

Oneslowz28
11-24-2010, 01:09 AM
lol. The dock will be fine Will, You will have to electrify the ski though as its too small by law for gas powered vehicles. (not to mention it has several thousand stumps a foot or two below the surface for most of it.

And sure, we can ride out the zombie invasion there. I have many guns.

Liquid_Scope_99
11-25-2010, 12:36 AM
Hello guys ,My upbringing was a lot like CJ's . I started working with my dad at the feed mill he worked at when i was 13 when your suppose to be 18 i didn't run the machinery or anything yet my dad did me the same way held me to a higher standard .
He was the foreman there i am not the speediest guy ever but i worked as hard as i could it didn't seem good enough either . I look back now and i thank God for everyday with my dad instilling in me his work ethic i don't have very much education not near whar i need i plan to work on that in the future. When i grew up it was just me and my dad we were very,very poor . Im not complaining he could have gotten welfare but, he told me i don't the government or any one else to raise my son .
I remember how he worked so hard when i was little . I remember kids had a lot of things i didn't back then i guess i was jealous ,now i look back i would not have it any other way. Then i went t owork a the cabinet shop i got up to around $11.00 here thats not to bad worked there 18 years the economy went south i talked with a lot of you about it .
The bosses daughter needed a job i stayed layed off on and off over a year hoping things would get better . I didn't know that i really wasn't wanted by the bosses daughter.
Well i found the part time Pizza Hut delivery job . hoping it would hold me over till things picked up . Well i finally got let go at the cabinet shop i was really worried i had the part time job at pizza hut , but was very scared .

Looking back the best thing ever happened to me i love working at pizza hut im a full time driver now basically .
I Too like cj wanted my own business its in its infancy right now to start with i needed a new mower . I thought i will mow a few yards to pay it off then i needed a trailer so i took out a loan for $2000 to buy some equipment in April .
Then i had a few yards then i hit a Deere in my truck and totaled it . I had full coverage . i was told it would take a while to get my money so i go refinance the loan for $4000 and buy a truck and put all the other stuff on the loan . Then even worse the mower i bought wasnt cutting it tokk it back put $500 on the lowes card to get a better mower . I remember laying in bed that night thinking im $4500 in the whole and 4 yards .

Well i worked all the hours i could the crappy shifts short notice . I went as hard as i could go working on yards and what ever i could till time to go to pizza hut get a shower and do it all again the next day .
One of the young guys he is 19 gave me one of the best compliments i have ever had . Im 37 now he said "I dont see how you do it you are a working Beast " .

I have been doing side work on computers when i can another thing i love to do i manage my money 100% better .
I know its not a fortune 500 company but its a start .
I am proud to say everyone wants me to be there closing Driver i got my 6 month report a month or so ago my boss said it was nice to be remined that there are dedicated hard working people left i am also happy to tell you guys .
If nothing happens between now and Friday I'm going to pay the last 1,858.54 off of the $4000 off that i refinanced in July . I cant believe it myself that may not be a big deal and the grand scheme but it is to me .
CJ i'm really glad you wrote this thread i have people in my family that live on welfare as well .
I love em but that burns me up . If you really need it fine .
Personally i think thats a lot of whats wrong with the economy now a lot of people don't want to work , or think there worth this much or that much.
I went from $11.00 to $7.25 to more than i have ever made the business kind of came up all at once im hoping to promote it and really get it going . I would work for a boss like you in a second .
I do see a lot of kids that think there entitled though through my job . I hate to say it but the world is gonna smack them in the face on day . this is what we need to is more small business men like cj and everyone else . thanks for the thread man.

dr.walrus
11-28-2010, 12:19 AM
Funny what people say about families - my father is a lorry driver, works away most of the time - my brother is a recently qualified vet working every our under the sun and I still manage two days a week alongside a full time degree.

My mother doesn't work. Hasn't for 4 or 5 years now, says she never will again, she 'doesn't like it'. It's pathetic, and harsh though it sounds, I have zero sympathy for it.

Xpirate
11-30-2010, 08:59 PM
I did the Pizza Hut delivery thing just like Liquid Scope to earn the cash for college. But before I did that I got to really learn what management want in their employees. When I was between 19 and 21 I was an assistant manager of a little retail store. The job paid about a dollar better than minimum wage.

I had a pretty good crew when I first started the job. I was able to turn my back on them and just knew that they would continue working. Then we had to get a few new people for Christmas. I had to stay after most of them to keep them working. I got to have a discussion with one of the slackers over a subject that I will have to censor with :mad:.

She told me to stop giving her :mad:. I apologized and told her that I didn't know that I was giving her :mad:. Then I asked her what exactly is :mad: so that I would know what it is and not give her :mad: in the future.

She answered, "You telling me what to do."

I made a serious look and helped clarify, "And then acting irritated when you don't do it."

"Exactly!" she exclaimed.

"I understand," I said as I nodded. Then I sighed and gave her the facts, "You know, you are going to get :mad: at any job you go to."

":mad:!" she returned.

"Exactly! And you're going to have to learn to swallow some :mad: if you're ever going to amount to :mad: because you really aren't worth a :mad: to anyone!"

Then I never had to see that slacker again.

dr.walrus
11-30-2010, 10:51 PM
:mad: ~ sexual harassment?

msmrx57
11-30-2010, 10:55 PM
"Exactly! And you're going to have to learn to swallow some :mad: if you're ever going to amount to :mad: because you really aren't worth a :mad: to anyone!"

Then I never had to see that slacker again.

Nice story, I like a happy ending.

msmrx57
11-30-2010, 11:02 PM
:mad: ~ sexual harassment?

I belivieve excrement is what is implied.

x88x
12-01-2010, 12:26 AM
She answered, "You telling me what to do."

I made a serious look and helped clarify, "And then acting irritated when you don't do it."

"Exactly!" she exclaimed.

"I understand," I said as I nodded. Then I sighed and gave her the facts, "You know, you are going to get :mad: at any job you go to."

":mad:!" she returned.

Oh! I see! She's a idiot! :P

dr.walrus
12-03-2010, 10:41 PM
I belivieve excrement is what is implied.
sarcasm

CorsePerVita
12-05-2010, 03:16 PM
I'm 25. I can relate to this. I managed a team for 2 years and it drove me nuts. I had people who had a steady job during the dead cold stop of the economic downturn when our unemployment was almost 20%.

People would complain, whine, and kick their feet and throw temper tantrums. I had people slack and act like some things were beneath them. It's not like they got paid poorly, nor did they have any issues with benefits or anything, quite well compensated for the line of work.

I had a couple of guys we hired who were pretty much the same age as me. One was an absolute nightmare as played devil's advocate on everything he could simply because he didn't like me, the karma train got him eventually. I had another that was insubordinate to the point of getting him to do work was a hassle everyday. I thought "What is this, high school?"

I was developing people into great preparation for other positions and was so proud of my team and had high marks, things ran smoothly. But of course out of a few, you'll find sour apples.

I use to think that all young people were just retarded to deal with, but a few have proven me wrong. I think a lot of it stems on how they are prepared for life.

The guys I had issues with had barely worked hard, just out of mommy and daddy's place and were spoiled rotten. When it came to the work place they simply didn't grasp that there was consequences for actions and insubordination. As I said, the karma train eventually made a trip through.

The school of hard knocks eventually teaches those types a valuable lesson. And generally that is how the majority of us end up with good work ethic, once we understand and grasp the bigger picture. We are all capable of maturity and ethic. The question is, how long does it take us, and why do we make the choice to step up, when do we step up and WHY do we step up to do it?

So much more stemming from types like that than just bad work ethic.

Xpirate
12-05-2010, 11:02 PM
It takes some folks a long time to get their mind right.

When I first started that job and had a great crew, I appeared to be a great manager. I also thought I was doing a fine job of managing. But when certain key people from that crew left and got replaced with less desirable people, I appeared to be a struggling manager. The reality of how hard it is to be in charge did not sink in until I had to deal with a few lazies.

I also got to understand how :mad: rolls downhill. I would get a regular AEO that I was expected to deliver to the crew. AEO = Ass Eaten Out. I really didn't like getting them and didn't really like delivering them either. I never got those when I had the good crew.

The moral to all the stories presented in this thread is pretty simple. Some folks need to have a work ethic pounded into them with stuff like AEO's, firings, or combinations of both. If they do not learn, they will be doomed to repeat the lessons over and over again.

x88x
12-05-2010, 11:12 PM
Some folks need to have a work ethic pounded into them with stuff like AEO's, firings, or combinations of both. If they do not learn, they will be doomed to repeat the lessons over and over again.

Agreed. That intern I mentioned is a prime example...nice guy, so I felt really bad about it, but I think the best thing for him (and definitely for us) was to let him go...may have been better for him to have been fired earlier, tbh.

Liquid_Scope_99
12-06-2010, 12:25 AM
I was training a new driver Friday night who is 19 she seemed really nice .
She rode with me most of the night . I mean delivering if you know the area is so easy even a ( Donald can do it ) my first name anyway .
I let her go to the door after a few times watching me where i knew there were good tippers . If she got a tip i let her keep it most of the others would not do that . Then i rode with her a couple of times she told me how she was a single divorced mother 19 had this to pay that to pay . I really tried to help her all i could and clue her in early on things i had to learn the hard way .
She was hired to cook, serve , and Drive .
I said if you willing to work and do whatever you can usually get hours .
I am a full time driver now but , I have washed dishes and answered the phone all night to get hours . They wanted her to cook last night .
It was like a switch went off lol she started :mad: as Xpirate put it so well and moaning and :mad: . I was like really are you kidding me she needs money for this money for that . If someone says ill pay you this to bust my tables or this to sweep my floors i do it dont think twice and not ashamed either . We were talking about how we all saved and stuff for Christmas this year how much easier it was i told about my lawn business her dad does the same then she goes how do you save and make save so much money .
Then she say i need to make more money on her second night after pittching a fit all night i hope my face didn't really look like this :eek::whistler:

x88x
12-06-2010, 01:51 AM
she was a single divorced mother 19

I hate to sound like I'm stereotyping, but this does not instil in me great faith in her maturity/etc. Good luck with her, hopefully she proves me wrong.

BuzzKillington
12-06-2010, 09:12 AM
AEO = Ass Eaten Out. I really didn't like getting them and didn't really like delivering them either.


SIG QUOTE CLAIM!

Xpirate
12-07-2010, 09:27 PM
She rode with me most of the night ... Then i rode with her a couple of times ...

That's pretty good training Liquid Scope. When I did it, the assistant manager rode with me on the first delivery before he deemed me ready to go solo. However, I was 23 at the time and already gone through several years of mental correction to mature and hone the work ethic. The manager probably realized that when he decided I was good to go without any further training. They did spend a bit more time with some other younger drivers.

When I look back on those days, I realize that I still had a ways to go on my journey of mental correction at 23. Of course, I didn't think I did at the time. Now I know for certain that the journey never ends.