Gas Motor Bicycle

[Lothair]

Does anyone here have any experience with one? I was thinking about getting one. Maybe from BikeBerry.com.

[BuzzKillington]

I'm not sure if it's California only but anything over 49cc's you'll need a license and be required to wear a helmet.

[mDust]

Does anyone here have any experience with one? I was thinking about getting one. Maybe from BikeBerry.com. Yeah, but I've never owned one. They're generally low power, high noise. They allow people who should never be allowed to ride a bicycle in traffic to do so. They have a hard time accelerating along with traffic on a flat run and tend to tie up traffic headed up a hill. They're generally filthy 2-cycles that are improperly tuned by the people that self-assemble them and there is no way they are better for the environment than a car. I may be a little biased though...every lazy hippy art student in the area here has one to (ironically) save the environment. Maybe they should educate themselves on how their engine works instead of just assuming that burning less fuel is better for the environment...
Those are the cons, here some of the pros:
They're pretty cheap and a fun DIY project. They can be fun to ride as long as you are OK with losing some of your hearing ability. If there's a traffic jam you can split lanes or hop up on the sidewalk. Parking meters?!? Hah! If you run out of gas, you can casually pedal over to the nearest gas station. You won't have to worry about the cost of gas as a gallon will get you 50 miles or so. You don't have to worry about motorcycle insurance.


I'm not sure if it's California only but anything over 49cc's you'll need a license and be required to wear a helmet.

While that may be, no cop is going to pull over a bicyclist to measure their engine displacement. So no worries there. A helmet is a good idea though since a 20-30 mph blow to the head by any hard, immovable object will definitely kill anyone other than Homer Simpson.

[Airbozo]

Yeah, but I've never owned one. They're generally low power, high noise. They allow people who should never be allowed to ride a bicycle in traffic to do so. They have a hard time accelerating along with traffic on a flat run and tend to tie up traffic headed up a hill. They're generally filthy 2-cycles that are improperly tuned by the people that self-assemble them and there is no way they are better for the environment than a car. I may be a little biased though...every lazy hippy art student in the area here has one to (ironically) save the environment. Maybe they should educate themselves on how their engine works instead of just assuming that burning less fuel is better for the environment...
Those are the cons, here some of the pros:
They're pretty cheap and a fun DIY project. They can be fun to ride as long as you are OK with losing some of your hearing ability. If there's a traffic jam you can split lanes or hop up on the sidewalk. Parking meters?!? Hah! If you run out of gas, you can casually pedal over to the nearest gas station. You won't have to worry about the cost of gas as a gallon will get you 50 miles or so. You don't have to worry about motorcycle insurance.



While that may be, no cop is going to pull over a bicyclist to measure their engine displacement. So no worries there. A helmet is a good idea though since a 20-30 mph blow to the head by any hard, immovable object will definitely kill anyone other than Homer Simpson.


Be aware that in most states, lane splitting/sharing is illegal, as is riding a motorized vehicle on the sidewalk (even if it is not running). Plus be aware of helmet laws. All states that mandate helmets be worn for motorcyclists, also apply this law to _any_ non car motorized vehicle (ok most states according to AMA). You also might want to verify the insurance thingy as all states vary in the requirements. Some state that any motorized vehicle ridden on public roads must provide insurance regardless of displacement.

BTW: In California they WILL pull you over and check out engine displacement if you are violating any traffic or safety laws.

...not to be a downer...

[x88x]

Be aware that in most states, lane splitting/sharing is illegal, as is riding a motorized vehicle on the sidewalk (even if it is not running).
/\This.

For power and riding restrictions and safety requirements, check your local laws (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electric_bicycle_laws#State_requirements_for_use). It actually varies a lot from state to state.

As for the concept in general, since you're still in the 'thinking about it' phase, might I offer an alternative? Instead of a gas powered bicycle, how about an electric one instead? I had been planning on saving this until I started a worklog, but since I keep putting that off.. I've been doing a lot of research in the last couple months on EV tech for a few different projects I'm going to be starting soon. First will be upgrading a couple cheap electric scooters I picked up, then I'll be building a proper electric bicycle. If you do it properly, you can get really nice performance, plus it's silent (or at least mostly so, it depends on several things along the way) and it doesn't stand out nearly as much. They cost less to run and usually aren't much more initially than a comparable ICE (if they cost more at all).

If you do decide to look into it, shoot me a PM and I can give you some pointers from the research I've been doing. Also, a really good resource I've found is the endless-sphere forums (http://endless-sphere.com/forums). Don't be put off by the occasional nutjob (sorry if any of them read this and are offended, but hey, I calls it like I sees it). Just wade through them and there truly is a wealth of information and experience there.

[Lothair]

The noise would definitely be an issue. Maybe gas isn't for me then.

I actually want an electric bike. They're virtually silent, cheaper to run and probably have a few other nice benefits.

However, they're expensive and inefficient. The similarly priced e-bikes only run around 15mph and achieve somewhere between 8 and 10 miles per charge without peddle-assist, or around 20 with constant peddling. The mileage isn't a concern for me, but the top speed certainly is. I peddle around 8 to 12 miles per hour on average. Normal cyclist do 15mph. Experienced or enthusiasts do 20+. 15mph just isn't fast enough for even the smalles price tags, such as $350 on Amazon.

Well it was a neat idea for all of about a day. Lol Oh well.

[mDust]

Be aware that in most states, lane splitting/sharing is illegal, as is riding a motorized vehicle on the sidewalk (even if it is not running). Plus be aware of helmet laws. All states that mandate helmets be worn for motorcyclists, also apply this law to _any_ non car motorized vehicle (ok most states according to AMA). You also might want to verify the insurance thingy as all states vary in the requirements. Some state that any motorized vehicle ridden on public roads must provide insurance regardless of displacement.

BTW: In California they WILL pull you over and check out engine displacement if you are violating any traffic or safety laws.

...not to be a downer...

Total downer, man...:D
For most of that it depends on the language used in the laws. All of that but the lane splitting is circumvented here because of the definition of a moped which doesn't include many motorized bicycles. Lane splitting is illegal in MI, but it isn't enforced. I'd definitely recommend anyone check their own states' laws though.

[x88x]

What price range were you thinking of? Also, considering you're here I'm guessing at least a kit build wouldn't be out of the question?

There are people on the endless-sphere forums who run as fast as 50mph+ on their electric bicycles (not that I would recommend that, personally), so it is definitely possible to achieve fast speeds. Most of the people I've seen there run around 20-40mph, though, and their builds are a lot more reasonably priced than the 50mph+ ones. :P Just like any hobby, you have your enthusiasts, your casual participants, and everything in between. :P

They're rather pricey (~$1,200), but there are some good, fairly simple conversion kits available on ebikes.ca that might interest you. You can go quite a bit cheaper if you do everything yourself though. Particularly, if you use a chain-drive system instead of a hub motor, it gets a lot cheaper. Personally I'm building all of my stuff from the ground up, but that's just because I like doing that better. :D

[msmrx57]

Another consideration is where are you going to be riding it? :think: If you plan on using it on bike trails/paths check regulations first. We have a lot of bike trails around here but NO motorized vehicles of any kind are allowed to use them. Except in the winter when they get used as snowmobile trails. :eek: You might get away with an electric here just because they are quiet, but then again you might not. I've had the thought because I live 10 blocks away from a trail and my storage shed/workshop is right off the trail system 18 miles away. Definitely not trying to discourage the idea, just would hate to se you build/buy one and not be able to use it. :(

[Lothair]

Building one is half the reason I want one. ;)

I'm a rather poor soul at the moment, so anything more than $400 isn't really worth it. If I needed one, maybe I would feel different. But I mostly want one just for kicks.

What's the cheapest option for 20mph+ and with a minimum range of 8mi?

[x88x]

Does that $400 include the base cost of the bike? If so, that would cut a sizable chunk out of the

If not, I think $400 is definitely possible. There are three areas to consider; motor/drivetrain, controller, and batteries. These are by far the most expensive things when you are building one yourself.

Motor/drivetrain:
Unless you can pick up a hub motor for cheap second hand, you'll have to go with a chain drive (more mechanically complicated, a little noisier, and less stealth, but that's about it). This means you'll be able to use a smaller, cheaper motor. You might have to go with a brushed motor at that price point though, which wouldn't be as quiet (though still worlds quieter than a 2-stroke :P ), but then again, you might not*.

Controller:
A brushed motor (BDC) will also require a lot less complicated (read: less expensive) controller electronics, but will also be louder than a properly controlled brushless (BLDC) motor.

Batteries:
If you can fit LiPo/LiFePO4/etc into your budget, that would be best in terms of energy density, but they do require more complex charging equipment. On the other hand, SLA (Sealed Lead Acid) are a lot cheaper (or so I'm told..I have yet to actually find cheap SLA batteries..not that I've looked all that much, but still) and a lot simpler to charge. On the other hand, because of discharge curves, you will need a higher capacity (Ah) pack for SLA than LiPo. The number normally used is 2x, so a 5Ah LiPo pack will give you around the same range as a 10Ah SLA pack. This is probably going to be the most expensive part of the whole system. On the bright side, you can always start with a smaller pack and add more for a higher top speed and longer range later.


One other thing that will make a big difference is the acceleration you want. The faster acceleration you want, the more powerful the motor will have to be, the more powerful the controller will have to be, and the more battery power you will need.

I think around a 500-700W motor would do what you want comfortably*. I would estimate a new BLDC motor for your needs anywhere from $50-100. If you go BDC, I would just salvage one from something. I hear alternator motors are quite nice for this purpose. Lots of low-end torque. For a BLDC motor controller, I would estimate around $50-150, for a BDC controller, I would guess around $50 at the upper end. For batteries, if you go with (new) LiPo I would say probably $100-150 at the low end, to get you rolling, probably $200-300 recommended (depending on voltage), with probably another $25-100 for charging electronics.

*Like I said, I've only been researching this for a couple months, so take everything I say with a grain of salt (ie, I could be completely wrong). If you want better, more specific advise, I would recommend posting a thread asking about it on endless-sphere.

Long story short, yes, I think $400 is definitely workable, but get more experienced advice before you buy anything. ;)

[Snowman]

or just go hereand take it a step further (http://www.kikker5150.com/hardknock.html)

[msmrx57]

Figured that would show up sooner or later. Although they would be fun it's not quite the same thing from any perspective.

[Snowman]

I know its not the same but i figured i would share my dreams and another perspective on the matter

[x88x]

Hey Lothair, idk if you ever decided to try anything along these lines, but that site I linked has some nice hubmotors on clearance for $120 now. That would knock a good $100 or so off the cost of an electric conversion.
http://www.ebikes.ca/store/store_motors.php (Scroll down to the 'Nine Continent' section, the first two in that section.)