Microsoft Kin[m]

[Lothair]

The Kin One and Kin Two are back! This little failure of Microsofts doing is around for a second go, but this time it means business. It's being re-released as the Kin OneM and Kin TwoM, but that's not all that's changed!

What was that tiny problem that the mass populace encountered the first time around with these products? Oh yeah, they were laughably expensive. You could quite literally pick up any smartphone for around the same cost, both upfront and monthly. And you'd be right to do as such too, considering that the Kin's are not smartphones.

But now they've been rebranded and relaunched all good and proper. They're no longer being sold as smartphones, but as highly advanced feature phones. This of course is what they should have done in the first place, but I suppose we can let it slide when you consider what these phones have to offer!

ZuneHD Hardware & Software wrapped around a smartphone form factor.
Full Qwerty Keyboard with an almost breezy amount of spacing.
8 Megapixel Camera capable of 720p recording. LED Flash.
8GB Internal Memory. No External Memory Slot!?
3.4" Capacitive Touch Screen.
3.5mm Headphone Jack.
Standardized USB Port.
Headphones w/mic.
FM Radio.
B/G WiFi.
HTML Web Browser.
No Data Plan Required!

Basically, as a Smartphone these devices were utter failures, although not a overly-terrible device if every other smartphone weren't so, how do you say? Better? By about a hundred thousand miles. But now, as a very reasonably priced feature phone, I've got to say, these devices are EASILY the king of any and all feature phones. Other feature phones don't even begin to compare. It's like the difference between the Kins and real Smartphones, except more-so and far into the favor of the Kin this time around.

Really, you've got to ask yourself, why not? If you're in the market for an affordable feature phone, you would have to be mad in the head to not seriously consider the Kin series by Microsoft.

Thoughts? Comments? Suggestions? Feel free to leave a comment!

By the way, just to convince you guys that this is a non-biased post and that I am in fact not talking out of my beautiful little posterior. You know who just bought a Kin Two[m] and is anxiously awaiting its delivery to their doorstep? THIS GUY.

[Lothair]

It's here!

http://i.imgur.com/veHa6.jpg

Quite the unusual packaging. Feels very high quality.

http://i.imgur.com/GN1yi.jpg

More unusual packaging within the already unusual packaging. Again, feels quite sturdy. Interesting way of holding it together with the colorful lime green band. I like it. I feel like I've gotten something quite special here.

http://i.imgur.com/9pUt3.jpg

Opened up and laid out for all to see. I'm not sure if I like how the phone was placed inside. It sort of just plopped right on out. Not very secure. :/

http://i.imgur.com/u79Kj.jpg

The standard paperwork. Doesn't say anything about charge times. Pretty much useless, but nice envelope.

http://i.imgur.com/WNtjh.jpg

That's all for now! I'll post more once I get a better feel for the device. Apologies for the lack of pictures detailing the phone itself. It completely slipped my mind.

[Lothair]

Under Construction. Come back soon.

[diluzio91]

im very interested in this, i want to know EVERYTHING. lol. my contract is up in 2 months, and if i can avoid a data charge im all in.

[Lothair]

Plans for this phone include;

Messaging Only. ($35/month - Unlimited Text, Flix and Pix. Unlimited Data/Web Usage. 40 cents per minute calling.)

Calling without Data. (Voice Plans starting at $40/Month. The Standard Mumbo Jumbo in other words. In case you only want to use WiFi.)

Calling with Data. (Data Plans include $10/25MB, $15/250MB, $30/5GB.)

Is there anything that you would like me to review especially? I'm definitely taking requests! It shall be a few days before I post my "Quick-Review" however, as I want to get a good feel for the phone.

(BTW - So far I'm loving it. There are a few things that I don't, though. It may feel like a smartie, but it's definitely just a dumb-dumb. :p)

[TopDog]

I just went to the Verizon store yesterday and picked out this phone (KIN TWOm (http://www.verizonwireless.com/b2c/store/controller?action=viewPhoneDetail&item=phoneFirst&selectedPhoneId=5572&inCompareList=false&contracTerm=2&deviceCategoryId=2)) from my (70 year old) mother.

http://lh6.ggpht.com/_qrN-VOclfJ4/TRtXJJKe81I/AAAAAAAAC94/jTKFa07BVLs/s800/Kin.jpg

Her contract was up and she just had a basic voice phone, but she wanted to be able to send text messages and check her Yahoo mail. The smartphones were too complicated and way more "phone" than she needed - but this was perfect. And a really nice 8 megapixel camera, to boot with the ability to shoot 720p video.

This is far and away the best messaging phone Verizon has - but strangely they really don't push them. They had a KIN TwoM on display, but not the KIN ONEm (http://www.verizonwireless.com/b2c/store/controller?action=viewPhoneDetail&item=phoneFirst&selectedPhoneId=5571&inCompareList=false&contracTerm=2&deviceCategoryId=2) - I had to ask them to bring one out from the back. The OneM was a bit small for Mom, but I would think younger folks would be all over this phone. It has a unique look and a very generous slide out thumb keyboard.

http://lh3.ggpht.com/_qrN-VOclfJ4/TRtXI110DDI/AAAAAAAAC90/-dfAPNxHwPw/s400/microsoft-kin-one.jpg

Verizon/Microsoft/Sharp basically dumped the (confusing) social networking hub and the online storage of the original KIN and kept the basic features, all available from the home page: Phone, E-mail, Camera, Messaging, Calendar, Calculator, Browser, Music, and Alarms. (The Calendar and Calculator are new in this revision; oddly they were missing from the original KIN.) This gives the phone a clear and attractive touch interface - with nothing hidden under layers of menus.

I mentioned the great camera (though the KIN ONEm only has a 5 megapixel camera and limited video capability). The other killer feature is the Zune music interface. This gives you the sophisticated Zune player and FM radio. You can also subscribe to a Zune pass for $15/month and stream anything and everything available in the Zune online catalog. (Plus you can download and keep 10 songs per month.) It's not for everybody - but for some with limited music collections it can be great.

The pluses:

Great physical keyboards for messaging
You can get one without a data plan (and just use your home wifi for internet access and do without when you are running around). This is a big savings for people who spend most of their time at home or the office where they already have wifi.
Verizon also has a $15/month data plan for 150 mb / month - if you are just going to get e-mail and not much browsing over the 3g internet.
KIN touch screen interface is light years ahead of Verizon's other LG and Samsung feature phones.
Excellent camera in the TWOm with HD video recording ability. (The ONEm camera is good, but not great.)
E-mail has setups for Gmail, MS Live Mail, Yahoo Mail, Exchange Mail and pop mail.
Built in Zune music and video player (with FM radio)



The downside:

No SD card slot - you are limited to the 8gb built in to the TWOm or the 5gb in the ONEm.
No apps - what you see is what you get; you can't add other programs to the phone.
Mac sync is not built in; it is Windows only off-the -shelf. However there is a free third party KIN sync tool for the Mac available from Mark/Space. It was developed in cooperation with Microsoft.
Cases and accessories were developed for the original KINs, but many manufacturers stopped production when the product was pulled in June - so some vendors may not have supply. That could easily change if Verizon starts pushing this phone.


In their previous smartphone incarnation the KINs were great hardware saddled with a confusing interface and expensive data plans. But as simplified feature/messaging phones, they rock!

KIN ONEm - $20 with 2 yr contract
KIN TWOm - $50 with 2 yr contract

[BuzzKillington]

So you're paying nearly as much as you would with t-mobile and you're getting a brain-dead phone in a smart phone body? Whyyyyy?!

[Lothair]

So you're paying nearly as much as you would with t-mobile and you're getting a brain-dead phone in a smart phone body? Whyyyyy?!

Elaborate?

[diluzio91]

So you're paying nearly as much as you would with t-mobile and you're getting a brain-dead phone in a smart phone body? Whyyyyy?!

lol... t-mobile?? they have worse coverage out here than AT&T.

With Verizon i can make phone calls INSIDE BUILDINGS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
(2 year AT&T veteran)

[Lothair]

lol... t-mobile?? they have worse coverage out here than AT&T.

With Verizon i can make phone calls INSIDE BUILDINGS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
(2 year AT&T veteran)

That depends more on the area in which you live in, though. It's a bit irrelevant. In my house for example, I get terrible 3G coverage.

I think the argument at hand is more about the phone itself and the costs involved. Which is where I'm personally confused. It's certainly not a brain dead phone, so I don't quite understand the remark that was made. I think I may be confused or something. Care to elaborate on the comment Buzz?

[Collinstheclown]

(2 year AT&T veteran)

Think I'm 5+ years in. My SIM card is from Cingular...


Lothair, he means it's just a feature phone. You can't do much more then what they give you. With a smartphone you can install more programs and pretty much do anything and everything.

[BuzzKillington]

Collins elaborated for me. lol

[Lothair]

And I, along with any other sane or rational human being, would buy a smartphone over a feature phone any day of the week. If I could afford it.

This isn't a smartphone. The device itself is cheap and it doesn't require the fairly pricey data plan. Although it does have multiple data plan options.

I don't understand the argument at hand.

This phone is categorized and priced as a feature phone. It is for people who either need or want (I wouldn't know why) a feature phone. It's not fair nor logical to compare it to smartphones. Now compare it to other feature phones and tell me which you would buy?

Not everyone wants, needs or can afford a smartphone. This phone is for those people. I hope that helps clarify a few things.

[TopDog]

Exactly my point. This is not a smartphone (no downloadable apps). This is a messaging/feature phone with a strong set of built in applications, well executed hardware, and (in my opinion) a snazzy but clear interface. I have a Droid Incredible, which I love. But my mom is baffled by Android and iPhones, and frankly doesn't need a bunch of apps. She needs talk, text, and e-mail in a simple format. A nice camera is icing on the cake.

There are a lot of people out there that don't want a little slate computer in their pocket; and they certainly don't want a $70 / month cell phone bill. Sure, the teens want an iPhone - but most families can't afford to put the kids on a monthly data plan on top of the basic voice and texting plans. But something like the KIN ONEm is a nice compromise in features, style and practicality.

Compare the KINs with the other Verizon feature phones: LG Cosmos, LG Cosmos Touch, and the Samsung Intensity. Those phones all have the tired old Verizon Menu interface, and can't compete with the KIN's keyboard or camera.

As for Verizon's calling plans - they are what they are. They are the same no matter what phone you get. Except for the fact that feature phones do not require a data plan, and smartphones do.

One downside to the KINs that I didn't mention previously is that they are something of a closed system. You can transfer music, video, and pictures to and from the phone - but there is no way to import/export contacts or calendar. So, unlike a smartphone, you cannot syc to your Google, Exchange, or Yahoo contact list or to an online calendar. That information has to be typed into the phone and cannot be backed up or transferred by the user. (The original KIN stored all this information "in the cloud" a la Sidekick, but the cloud feature was pulled in the redesign.)

The Verizon techs do have the ability in the store to transfer contacts from most phones into the KIN, so it's best to have them do it for you when you buy the phone and have your old one with you.

[Lothair]

Another downfall is the data management system. The problem is basically that there isn't one. Since there is no external memory slot, which is surprising given the size of the device, you have to use the provided data cable and sync the phone with your PC to transfer files. Unfortunately, the phone doesn't act as a mass storage device. It acts as a Zune, which it is. As such, you have to use Zune software.

Two fairly large strikes against the phone, but the benefits far outweigh the cons in my opinion.

I'll go into more pro's and con's sometime next week once I upload my review in the third post. There are definitely plenty of both. It's a powerful feature phone, but it's not perfect.

[TopDog]

Another downfall is the data management system. The problem is basically that there isn't one...

Very true. Some of the idiosyncrasies are due to the original concept for the KIN system: minimum data stored on the phone / maximum data stored in the cloud. In that setting there was no need for expandable memory - you could store as much as you want on the KIN data servers. But now that the KIN cloud is gone (literally, as of next month) the lack of SD slot sticks out.

Here is my wish list for Version 2 (keeping with items that I think are reasonable to expect from a high end feature phone):


Ability to sync (or at the very minimum do a one time transfer) of contacts and calendar items. No one wants to retype everything into a new phone.
Exernal memory slot.
Built in social network app that aggregates Twitter, MySpace, and Facebook updates (like the HTC FREINDstream Android widget).
Allow the user to send updates to those services


Of course Microsoft has already folded the KIN team into the Windows Phone 7 group = so I'm not holding my breath for improvements.

[Lothair]

I'd just be happy if they brought back the cloud service, even if they ended up charging a small fee for it. The lack of mass storage option as well as memory slot is pretty disappointing.

They should at least do it for the W7 phones, though. I at least always thought it was a pretty cool idea. I wouldn't want it as a replacement for standard options such as with the Kin, but just simply as a secondary option. An extra service. A little something to help entice buyers.

The cloud service quite honestly just felt right. It felt like how things should be done. Free of charge would be great, however even having a Free Version along with a Paid Version (no more than $5/month) would be pretty acceptable I think.

As for your revision 2 ideas;

1. That would be great. This is one of the major gripes with Verizon versus just about every other carrier. It's not a problem switching between phones on other carriers, but with Verizon, it's either do it the old fashioned manual way or take it in to have it serviced.

2. Definitely. It's one of the most basic features on pretty much every phone available today. The cheapest and most lackluster phones even have it. It's just not acceptable to not have it. Even to people who don't really need it, such as myself, still find themselves a bit disappointed and turned off from devices lacking expandable memory options. These days, when phones are so similar to each other, it's the small things that make a difference.

3. This they already had, but removed. Disappointing and hard to understand, as you can just go to any of those websites in the very capable web browser. But even my old Verizon Samsung Reality had an app you could download that would give you RSS, Twitter, Myspace, Facebook all in one location. It didn't act as a program so much as it acted as a shortcut that then opened up in the browser. It was pretty lame to be honest, however I'd still take something like that over nothing at all. And I imagine if Microsoft were to develop it, I'd probably like it quite a bit more. That or they could just bring back those few basic apps. At the time of this post it is less than a day away from 2011. I see absolutely no reason why they should not have these few services available on phones that can handle and properly make use of them. Hell, I'd even pay for them. Not on a smartphone mind you, but for a feature phone I think it's fair. It keeps the line between the two there, which is what they want.

[diluzio91]

question, without a data plan how does the browser and email work? do they run over WIFI?

[Luke122]

My understanding of this phone failing was that the MS exec who was leading the Kin project was fighting with the WM7 team, and so they refused to have anything to do with it. When he left MS, the Kin was dead in the water.

Glad to see it come back though, it's always a shame when a company invests a bunch into something, and then fails to come through.

[Lothair]

question, without a data plan how does the browser and email work? do they run over WIFI?

Yes. The phone has WiFi.


My understanding of this phone failing was that the MS exec who was leading the Kin project was fighting with the WM7 team, and so they refused to have anything to do with it. When he left MS, the Kin was dead in the water.

Glad to see it come back though, it's always a shame when a company invests a bunch into something, and then fails to come through.

The real reason it failed was due to sales. In a month and a half it only sold an embarassing seven thousand units. Well, that's the reason it was cancelled. The reason it failed was due to it being just as costly as a smartphone in both unit price and monthly fees. You would have to be mentally challenged to choose the Kin over literally any smartphone. lol

It sounds like if the W7 team was more involved it would have probably been much more successful. So you might be onto something there.

[AmEv]

Hmmmm....


Does the Kin TwoM remind anyone else of the Palm Pre Plus?

[Lothair]

It certainly seems like they took an idea or two from the Pre series. Although it's also true I suppose that any phone that's designed to look "simple" would probably turn out looking like that. There's not a whole lot you can do with "simple" when it comes to smart-phone design. lol

Probably why they also did the Kin OneM. Just to change it up a bit. Make the series seem a bit more interesting or something.

[TopDog]

Y...The reason it failed was due to it being just as costly as a smartphone in both unit price and monthly fees. You would have to be mentally challenged to choose the Kin over literally any smartphone. lol
...

Yeah - and the KIN designers never intended to compete with smartphones. I think the original KIN specifically failed because of a disconnect between Verizon and Microsoft.

The KIN team crafted a social media focused phone for teenagers that used cloud storage for everything - contacts, music, photos, and settings. (Contrary to Microsoft PR, the KIN has nothing whatsoever to do with Windows Phone 7. The KIN OS is built on top of Windows CE - the platform that runs the old Windows Mobile OS.) It was never a smartphone platform - it just wanted to take messaging the next step into the social space.

If the KIN could have just been added to a family plan, it might have succeeded. But for Verizon, the fact that the phone was constantly reaching back to the servers and streaming photos and music over the 3G network meant that it was even more a bandwidth hog than your average Android phone. So they required a data plan ($30 minimum). That meant that the monthly cost for a KIN voice + unlimited text + data was a whopping $90 / month minimum.

That's what killed it. Teenagers (or more likely their parents) couldn't shell out that kind of dough. And if they could, (as Lothario indicates), why not just get a smartphone?

That's why it makes much more sense in it's current incarnation as a feature/messaging phone. Verizon had to have Microsoft kill off the bandwidth clogging cloud features - but the upside is that no expensive data plan is required now.

I also see the physical resemblance to PalmPre hardware. But of course the PalmOS is a full on smartphone. (Unfortunately no longer available at Verizon.) I'm hoping that because PalmOS version 2 hardware is just now coming to market, Verizon will be carrying one of the new devices. In my opinion PalmOS is the best smartphone OS around. Unfortunately, the first version PalmPre hardware was a bit underwhelming.

[AmEv]

Yes. The Pre's biggest flaw? The keyboard.

FCOL! The Cybiko's keyboard is bigger!
(another piece of awesome, dead tech)