The Best Company for PSU's?

[TheGreatSatan]

I hear it alot. PC Power and Cooling is the BEST. What are your thoughts?

[Kayin]

After OCZ bought them, they went downhill fast. As I understand, Enermax is the new king of the hill.

[TheMainMan]

I've been prone to use OCZ lately. Not for any particular reason really except that I've been able to find good prices when I needed to buy. Helps that they bought PC P&C. The 1kW OCZ I reviewed a while back is still going strong after a year that included a large number of power hungry updates.
I've heard similar things though about Enermax though I don't have any personal experience with them.

[d_stilgar]

I would go for Seasonic. They have high quality power supplies but are also known for being exceptionally quiet.

[Lothair]

I'm in love with Corsair these days.

They haven't been around as long as some of these other well known and trusted brands, but they have been making excellent high-quality power supplies right from the start.

They have won a few rewards for their power supplies, too. The user reviews are almost all perfect and the professional ones never seem to have anything seriously bad to say about them. I think that kind of speaks for itself.

They may be relatively new to the game, but I would trust any one of their power supplies in my rig without a second thought.

[MrGoat]

I would go for Seasonic. They have high quality power supplies but are also known for being exceptionally quiet.

+1 on this. The old PC Power and cooling units that were so exceptional were OEM'd by Seasonic as well. The new PC Power and Cooling is overpriced ass, basicaly OCZ bought the brand to turn a quick buck using the great rep they built over the years.

[SXRguyinMA]

Ultra is a good one, can't beat their lifetime warranty :D

Tt also makes some beastily PSU's as well

[DynamoNED]

Ditto what Lothair said. Corsair is my go-to brand of power supply, with Antec being a close second. Never had a problem with either brand. I have a Corsair TX650W in my gaming rig, an Antec 520W running in my parents' computer, and an Antec 450W I use for testing older rigs. I've never used either PC P&C or Enermax, so I can't give any advice about them.

[x88x]

After OCZ bought them, they went downhill fast.

Unfortunately, yeah, I've noticed that too. :( Rather like when Seagate bought Maxtor, but in reverse... :(

I used to be a die-hard PCP&C supporter (and Seagate, but that's another story :P ), but because of what happened when OCZ bought them I can't really recommend them anymore. At least not over other brands. I haven't really heard anything about Enermax until recently, so can't comment on that, but you can't go wrong with Corsair. If you're on a budget, Seasonic and Antec have you covered. I also had a really good experience with Kingwin, back when I got a 350W from them back in ...2003? 2004? Anyway, it was a rock-solid PSU, and the only reason I don't have it anymore is because it disappeared around the time I left college...no clue where it is, but I know I don't have it. :?

I know I'm unusual in this, but I steer clear of Thermaltake's PSUs. After having two of their high-end models (680W Pure Power, RMA replaced with a 700W Toughpower), and both losing 12V rails fairly quickly (the MBB 12V aux rail initially and eventually all the 12V rails on the 680, and the PCIe 12V rails on the 700), I don't trust them anymore. I bought the 680 in October 2005, it died sometime in March 2007, got the brand new 700 as an RMA replacement, and it started having issues in, iirc, late 2007, outside of the warranty. Maybe I got bad apples, maybe they've improved, but I'm not willing to bet my money on that.

[Technochicken]

Seasonics are great, but a lot of other companies use their internals for their power supplies. These include Corsair(most), XFX(all), Antec(most), and others. PC Power and Coolings used to be as well, before OCZ bought them.

[SXRguyinMA]

a lot of reviews I've read on the Corsair PSU's haven't been good at all

[x88x]

a lot of reviews I've read on the Corsair PSU's haven't been good at all

Really? Where? Not challenging your word, I just have honestly never seen a bad review of a Corsair PSU. :?

[mtekk]

The low end Corsairs (VX and CS) are supposedly junk. The TX series has had a update that cheapened up the internals, not that it isn't bad but it is not as good as it used to be (See http://www.overclock.net/power-supplies/898000-corsair-tx-line-changed-secret.html). The HX and AX series are the safe bets at the moment.

[x88x]

Huh. Good to know.

[Lothair]

Rule No. 1. - You want cheap, you get cheap. ;)

Although I must admit I'm a bit surprised by that. Their higher end models have such near perfect reviews. I wonder how they managed to fudge that up so bad? Even their cheaper models aren't that cheap.

[TheGreatSatan]

I would never buy an Everex and OCZ's won't power a decent video card. I like the Antec High Current Gamer series, any of the Corsair GS series, and the XFX PSU's. There are others too.

[Oneslowz28]

Well I own several PSUs and I can not say enough good things about Thermaltake. Their Tough Power, Tough Power XT and Tough Power Grand series are about as high quality as it gets.

I also like Cooler Masters Silent Pro Gold series.

I also own a Ultra X4, OCZ Champion Series FATAL1TY series and a generic Antec 500w. All are nice PSUs but none compare to the Thermaltake Tough Power series.

On a side note, I have owned 2 Apevia, 1 Corsair and 2 generic 500w models from newegg. I did not like any of them. These were all back when I knew almost nothing about PSU quality and would only spend like $40 on a PSU. Now I believe you should buy the best PSU you can afford and if you have to, save up for an extra week or 3 to compensate for the extra cash going into the PSU.

I have 3 PSU reviews coming up, Slaveofconvention has one, and Kayin has another. So keep you eyes on the front page for them in the coming weeks.

[TheGreatSatan]

I will!

[FuzzyPlushroom]

On a side note, I have owned 2 Apevia, 1 Corsair and 2 generic 500w models from newegg. I did not like any of them.

Apevia/Aspire are crap - not as bad (read: fire-prone) as Deer (L&C, Allied...) or Powmax, but certainly nothing I'd run a modern system on. What model Corsair did you have, though?

Thermaltake used to largely be shiny junk, but they've really stepped up their game from the Toughpower lineup on.

[SXRguyinMA]

Really? Where? Not challenging your word, I just have honestly never seen a bad review of a Corsair PSU. :?

I saw one that I think was here, but I can't seem to find it. The guy was going on about how big a piece of crap it was. It was a video review, but I can't find it at all. :?

[Oneslowz28]

I do not remember the corsair model number. I do know Kayin had one erupt into flames though. I think it was their HX series. (could be wrong though)

My 2 main PSUs right now are a Thermaltake Toughpower 1200w and a Cooler Master Silent Pro Gold 800w.

[d_stilgar]

I have a Thermaltake Toughpower right now as well. I have to say that it's the loudest component in my computer right now, which sucks because power supply fans are the one component that you can't really fiddle with easily.

That's why I recommend Seasonic. They are ultra quiet, but really good power supplies. Shoot, I would sell you my 750W toughpower and get a Seasonic in a heartbeat. Let me know if you are interested.

[Kayin]

HX 520, was poor power from the wall (as it ate a PC P&C later on.)

My other corsair experiences have been positive, though. I'd still jonnyGURU it if I'm looking for one, though.

I'm currently using an Antec, though I have an XFX I need to put up for sale and I have an Ultra coming in for review.

[AmEv]

Wow.

Even my 12+-year-old PSUs are pumping out enough juice to power a P4+components.

Quality ain't what it used to be.

[Oneslowz28]

I just got in one of the new Thermaltake Toughpower Grand PSUs and all I can say is WOW! I will be posting an unboxing in the next few days followed by a full review!

[farlo]

i've had no issues with my nzxt psu i currently have, before that i mostly got enermax or BFG psus

[Oneslowz28]

Just a teaser of one of the upcoming reviews.


http://thebestcasescenario.com/oneslowz28/front_page/TT_Toughpower_Grand750/IMG_2058.jpg

http://thebestcasescenario.com/oneslowz28/front_page/TT_Toughpower_Grand750/IMG_2057.jpg

[msmrx57]

That there is a mighty nice looking PSU.

[Lothair]

That's a pretty interesting design. Looks cool.

[Undead]

A bit of an old thread but I thought I would chime in anyway...

PC Power & Cooling used to be pretty good in the past, back when the Silencer units first came out, which were rebranded Seasonic units. That was back then, though. They're still solid units however they don't really hold candle to the electrical performance of some other units that are around today.

There's more or less a similar thing going on with Corsair. Here's a run down on some of their units:

CX430: This particular unit is based from the CWT DSA platform. There was quite alot of controversy surrounding these units as it was replacing the (older and superior) CX400, and the fact that it has a pretty anemic +12v capacity for a "430w". Really, this PSU should be 380W, or 400W at the very most, as with modern rigs, the vast majority of power is drawn from the +12v rail, so that's where most of the power should reside, no?

The VX series are definitely NOT crap. The VX450 is based off the (older) Seasonic S12II design. They have fantastic ripple supression but only mediocre voltage regulation. Overall, these units are merely decent.
The VX550 is a CWT PSH which is still a solid platform for low wattage units.

Now the TX and some of the older HX series is where Corsair has been falling behind. There's lots and lots of competition in the higher price ranges and Corsairs older units cannot keep up with the competition. The TX750, and TX850 for example, while solid units, have mediocre performance, and aren't particularly priced well either. The TX750 has quite a few ripple issues when you fully load it, and although it stays in spec.... almost 100mV on the +12v isn't an attractive number. Couple that with mediocre voltage regulation and transient results and you have a pretty lackluster Powersupply. The TX850 has similar problems as it's based on the same platform (The VX550, TX750 and TX850 are all CWT PSH). Thankfully, these units are being replaced, you may have seen the TX750 V2, TX850 V2 etc popping up lately... these are much, much better units overall.

My personal gripe with alot of "enthusiasts" is that they usually make blind recommendations and say things such as "Corsair are the best, they're untouchable" when really... they're just OK. I could name a ton of units that are overall superior to many Corsair units based on value/performance.

OCZ Stealthxstream 400w > Antec Neo ECO 400w > CX400 & 430

M12II-520 > HX520

Kingwin LZP 550 > Truepower New 550 > VX550

M12II-620 > HX620

Truepower New 650 > HX650 > TX650

Truepowr New 750 > TX750

XFX Pro 850 > TX850

Seasonic X-850 > HX850

Kingwin LZG 1000, NZXT Hale90 1000, Rosewill LIGHTNING 1000, Enermax Revolution 85+ 1050, Sparkle Gold Class 1000, Silverstone OP1000-P > HX1000

Antec HCP-1200 > AX1200

(Quick note, I know brands like Rosewill, Kingwin and the like are probably seen as "cheap", however, these particular units listed are based on Superflowers GoldenGreen/GoldenKing platforms, which are good. If you're going to bash them please do your research first.)


With that said, Corsair still do have some very good PSU's (even if their pricing isn't always the best), like the newer HX series (HX750, HX850) and the AX series which are rebranded Seasonic-X units. Oh, and the AX1200 which is outstanding in every aspect, but falls very, very slightly behind the HCP-1200.

Overall, I would say Antec currently have the best value as their units are priced pretty well. The Neo ECO's (rebranded, but slightly tweaked S12II's) and the Truepower New's (which are a mix of Seasonic M12D and Truepower Trio) are currently at pretty attractive prices.

The NZXT Hale90 units are probably the best value 80+ Gold units currently available (also based on the Superflower GoldenGreen)... and as for XFX, they also have some outstanding units which are all rebranded Seasonics. They use the S12/S12E, M12D and SS-***-AT platforms.

And Enermax... well... they have alot of good PSU's, but the price is @_@.

[x88x]

Welcome to TBCS. Always good to see a new face. :)


Thankfully, these units are being replaced, you may have seen the TX750 V2, TX850 V2 etc popping up lately... these are much, much better units overall.
Interesting. I had actually heard it the other way around from several sites when I was checking. That the new ones could push a higher current level but had more voltage ripple. Source?


My personal gripe with alot of "enthusiasts" is that they usually make blind recommendations and say things such as "Corsair are the best, they're untouchable" when really... they're just OK.
I can't speak for others, but I base most of my PSU recommendations largely on the reviews done by HardOCP. They have, by far, the most in-depth testing procedures for PSUs out of all the tech websites I've seen, and in the tests I've seen, Corsair units usually come out at or near the top. Not to say that other companies don't as well, but from what I've read, Corsair's TX and AX lines tend to excel the most consistently.

Also, since you mention 'blind recommendations'... ;) What are your sources? You sound like you know what you're talking about, but well, no offense, but I don't know you. First post and all; no history. I'm not saying you're wrong (and no, I'm not asking just because you said something that challenged what I said ;) I fully admit I'm not an expert on the subject), but you are stating a lot of things as fact without providing any sources to back them up.

[Undead]

Welcome to TBCS. Always good to see a new face. :)


Interesting. I had actually heard it the other way around from several sites when I was checking. That the new ones could push a higher current level but had more voltage ripple. Source?


I can't speak for others, but I base most of my PSU recommendations largely on the reviews done by HardOCP. They have, by far, the most in-depth testing procedures for PSUs out of all the tech websites I've seen, and in the tests I've seen, Corsair units usually come out at or near the top. Not to say that other companies don't as well, but from what I've read, Corsair's TX and AX lines tend to excel the most consistently.

Also, since you mention 'blind recommendations'... ;) What are your sources? You sound like you know what you're talking about, but well, no offense, but I don't know you. First post and all; no history. I'm not saying you're wrong (and no, I'm not asking just because you said something that challenged what I said ;) I fully admit I'm not an expert on the subject), but you are stating a lot of things as fact without providing any sources to back them up.

Where did you read that about the TX V2's? Google the original TX850 Jonnyguru review (I'm having trouble linking there for some odd reason) and also the TX850 V2 one (he reviewed them both), you can clearly see the difference in electrical performance. Don't get me wrong, I am not saying that the older TX units are bad, they were excellent for when they came out. Things have changed since then, though... theres alot of competition in the higher price ranges, they're merely just average now. The HX750, HX850, and all of the AX series are outstanding, though.

HardOCP provides pretty good reviews, as well as Jonnyguru, Kitguru, OC3D (OC3D recently acquired proper testing equipment) and sometimes hardwaresecrets. I say *sometimes* hardwaresecrets because although voltage regulation testing is done, the exact values aren't included in the reviews. The overload tests aren't the best, either.

You're right though, I haven't provided much "back up" or sources to what I have said. I'm not prepared to post a source on every little thing I say, but I'll be happy to answer any questions you may have about my post.

Oh, and thanks for the welcome. :up:

[x88x]

Where did you read that about the TX V2's?
I can't remember exactly..though come to think of it, I think it was some forums speculating based on the model the new version would be based on..before it was released...so maybe not the best source.. :whistler:

I checked out some of the JonnyGuru reviews, and they look quite in depth. I like how they actually take them apart and inspect the important components individually. I'll definitely add them to my list for researching new models.


You're right though, I haven't provided much "back up" or sources to what I have said. I'm not prepared to post a source on every little thing I say, but I'll be happy to answer any other questions you may have about my post.
Fair enough. Listing review sites is enough for me, I can do the rest of the work myself. I just assume when someone lists off a long, detailed list of model numbers that they're going off recent research (not always the case, but usually, in my experience).

For embedding links, either just paste in the link and the posting software will take care of it, or highlight the text you want the link to display as, and select the 'Insert Link' button in the posting toolbar (looks like a globe with a paper clip, just to the right of the little iPod). Or, if you feel like doing it manually, just use standard bracket formed bb-code.

[Undead]

I can't remember exactly..though come to think of it, I think it was some forums speculating based on the model the new version would be based on..before it was released...so maybe not the best source.. :whistler:

Just a FYI, the TX series have been changed twice. The TX650 which was originally Seasonic S12, was changed to CWT PSHII, and The TX750 and TX850 were changed from CWT PSH to CWT PSHII. They were replaced again with the TX V2 units, which are *so far* all Seasonics.

The CWT PSHII replacements were only temporary (some people confuse these units with the V2's) cost cutting replacements, as Corsair were preparing the TX V2's. There was a small amount of speculation surrounding the temporary replacements though, as they used cheaper internals, and Corsair said nothing about it. Performance is still pretty similar, although voltage regulation seems to be a little worser on the PSHII's. These weren't really sent to reviewers either as they were just updates, but if you want to compare, you can check out the Corsair GS series, they also use CWT PSHII internals. (http://www.hardwaresecrets.com/article/Corsair-GS800-Power-Supply-Review/1103)

Original TX750: http://images.hardwarecanucks.com/image/skymtl/PSU_review/TX750/CORSAIR-12.jpg

Updated TX750 PSHII: http://img3.imageshack.us/i/tx750c.jpg/

Compare the picture of the PSHII TX750 to the internal shot of the GS800 HERE (http://www.hardwaresecrets.com/article/Corsair-GS800-Power-Supply-Review/1103/2)... you'll see the similarity. :)

[Blibbax]

I have to say, while Corsair aren't untouchable, and there efficiency isn't always great, I do often blindly reccomend them, simply because there are so consistent with their build quality and reliability (which, let's face it, is what's important).

They also tend to stick to single 12v rail designs, which prevents any situation where you have a vastly powerful PSU but you're sucking too much off the 18 or 28A first rail.

It should tell you something that this thread about "best PSUs" has developed into a discussion of Corsair PSUs.

[Undead]

Single rail vs Multi rail does not matter anymore, really. A rail is just traces on a PCB which are monitored by the OCP.

With a single rail, all of the traces are monitored together, so for example if you have a 850w PSU with 70A on the +12v, the PSU should shut down if you try to draw more than 70A.

With a multi rail, all of the traces are monitored separately, so if you have about six traces rated at 25A each, the PSU will shut down if more than 25A is drawn from one rail.

Modern "multi-rail" units are built much better than they were like 4-5 years ago, so they don't have all of those rail balancing issues and what-not. All of that is done automatically.

For high wattage units, multi-rail is actually a little safer. Lets take an AX1200 for example, one big 100A rail. If you had a short circuit on that, the current would climb upto and over 100A until OCP would shut the PSU off, that much current would definitely end up killing something, or setting something on fire. Still, the chances of the in-built PSU protection not catching a short is extremely slim... It happens, though!

If you take the Antec HCP-1200 as another example, it has eight 30A rails. In the very unlikely event of a short, the OCP would shut the PSU off if one trace climbs over 30A, which would cause MUCH less damage. (100A vs 30A). Again, the chances of a short are very, very slim, which makes it not so much of an issue regardless. The HCP-1200 and AX1200 are both outstanding PSU's... but for higher wattage units, Multi rail is slightly safer.

Currently, this whole single rail jargon is just marketing.

Build quality and reliability is important but it isn't the ONLY important things. Performance is very important, especially for hardware enthusiasts. A better performing PSU (in terms of transient, ripple/noise supression and voltage regulation) means longer lasting components, cleaner VRM power, and better overclocks.

I partly agree with you though, although Corsair doesn't always have the best performance with their units, their build quality is normally pretty good. All I'm saying is that there are usually quite a few units that have better price, performance, and build quality than the equivalent Corsair yet some people still flock to the Corsair unit because of the name. One thing I can definitely say though is that they have the best customer service of any PSU manufacturer period. Antec is a close second (that's just my opinion though).

[billygoat333]

my kingwin 1k watt psu is running fine... but the first one I got was DOA, and apparently it happens with them more often than not from the reviews on newegg. either they work rock solid, or they don't work at all. lol

[Undead]

What's the exact model name?

[Kayin]

You know, it's nice to see you here. Wandered over from Guru, I see...

Well, good deal. It'll be nice to have you here as well!

[x88x]

Just a FYI, the TX series have been changed twice. The TX650 which was originally Seasonic S12, was changed to CWT PSHII, and The TX750 and TX850 were changed from CWT PSH to CWT PSHII.

Ah, yes, now that you mention it, that is what the discussion I read; the introduction of the CWT PSHII's without any change in label. Good to hear they're back to Seasonic stock. :D

[Undead]

You know, it's nice to see you here. Wandered over from Guru, I see...

Well, good deal. It'll be nice to have you here as well!

Yeah, I figured I'd check out the forum. :redface:

[Blibbax]

...rail balancing issues and what-not. All of that is done automatically....

That I did not know. Thank you sir.

[Undead]

That I did not know. Thank you sir.

People often get confused around those parts. The only "true" Multiple-rail unit that's still around is the Corsair HX1000. That Powersupply has two 500w's in one housing. As for all the rest of the Single/Multi rail's, they're 99% identical.



I know I'm unusual in this, but I steer clear of Thermaltake's PSUs. After having two of their high-end models (680W Pure Power, RMA replaced with a 700W Toughpower), and both losing 12V rails fairly quickly (the MBB 12V aux rail initially and eventually all the 12V rails on the 680, and the PCIe 12V rails on the 700), I don't trust them anymore. I bought the 680 in October 2005, it died sometime in March 2007, got the brand new 700 as an RMA replacement, and it started having issues in, iirc, late 2007, outside of the warranty. Maybe I got bad apples, maybe they've improved, but I'm not willing to bet my money on that.

Thermaltake are a mix of bad/very bad and good/very good. The original Toughpowers are CWT PSH, same as the Corsair TX750... which were decent. The newer Toughpower XT's mostly use CWT DSG which is very good. The HX750, HX850, and TX950 are all quite similar to the CWT DSG platforms and they're amongst one of the best PSU's in their wattage range. Some of Thermaltakes TR2 units are just so-so, and some are just plain trash... Same goes for their Litepower/Purepower units. As for the TT Grand units, they're further improved CWT DSG's.

Review of the XT 775w: http://www.hardocp.com/article/2010/04/13/thermaltake_toughpower_xt_775w_psu_review/9

Review of the TT Grand 750w: http://www.hardocp.com/article/2010/12/05/thermaltake_toughpower_grand_750w_power_supply/9

In short, it really depends on what TT PSU you pick. They range from complete turd, to really good.

[x88x]

Thermaltake are a mix of bad/very bad and good/very good.

This seems to be a common trend with Thermaltake across their entire product line (ie, with stuff other than PSUs as well)...one of the reasons I just steer clear of them whenever I can.