BIOS and Boot help, multiple HDDs

[Munty]

Hi guys, thanks to help with virus protection and the like I'm happy that this computer is now finally up to scratch and that means it's time to use it to fix the others! I just got a SATA splitter through the post so I can now hook up both my active 1TB HDD and my older 320GB one which has a whole host of data on that I want to get back!

So I plugged both in and was expecting it to boot up into this system, automatically designating the old 320GB HDD as F: or something simialr. That should allow me torun virus and malware scans, take off what I need from it then reformat it and install a new OS. But that's not as simple as it sounds apparently... So here's my info and problem, please read on if you have a brain with such things as I'm sure it shoudl be simple to fix with the right knowhow...

Firstly, the issue with my old 320GB drive is something to do with the windows logon process I believe. In the final 'logging into windows' screen it gives me an error message of 'userinit.exe failed to initialise or similar. After a lot of time spent trying to diagnose it I gave up, purchased a new HDD and started over but I do need to save the data on the smaller 320GB one and I want to use it as a backup for said data in future to allow periodic reformatting of this new one.

Anyway, I'm not too interested in fixing this userinit issue as it's subject to a full reformat soon anyway but I need the data first so I want to get this 320GB drive wired up as a slave to my 1TB one I think. Please correct me if I'm wrong but I've done similar in the past so I think it's my best bet now...

In BIOS (with both HDDs plugged in) I went to the 'standard CMOS setup' page (again forgive my ignorance if I'm using wrong terms or locations, I try to avoid meddling with things outside the OS) and was given a list of the following;
IDE Channel 0 Master TSTxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx (no idea on any of this but remember TST being present)
IDE Channel 0 Slave None
IDE Channel 1 Master x (both channel 1 slots were greyed out with a x next to them instead of none)
IDE Channel 1 Slave x
IDE Channel 2 Master Samsungxxxxxxxxxxx
IDE Channel 2 Slave None
IDE Channel 3 Master xxxxxxxxxxxxx (some wierd number, this is the 320GB HDD)
IDE Channel 3 Slave None

Sorry for the messy post and lack of better descriptions, I'm not too sure about most of this though. First question based on the above... I know that the bottom one in channel 3 is the 320GB one as it's listed as none in the BIOS when I disconnect it. But why do I have 2 others and why is there no channel 1? Channel 2 is the first spot on my mobo for the SATA data cable and I plugged the 320GB one into the next slot which is clearly channel 3 so I guess the Samsung in channel 2 is my 1TB.

But what is the channel 0 one? Is there some minute storage capacity on the board or something odd? Or is it a non-HDD component? And how come I have no Channel 1? Is it just the way the mobo is? Sorry I can't get the details on the mobo without a switch off and dismantle but will do that if necessary of course!

So my main goal here is to get the rig running with the 1TB as a master and the 320GB as a slave. Strangely, when I boot up as it is, I still get the userinit error message, even with the healthy 1TB HDD in the former slot so it seems to be drawing on bad data from the 320GB HDD even before it logs into windows. So currently I'm unable to boot up with the 320GB connected at all. When it has power it works fine as I can hear and feel it working.

Any help would be sterling as I was hoping to get this sorted today and crossed off the to-do list! +rep for a solution lol

[Munty]

Woohoo +rep for me lol I just booted up with my 1TB OS and then hooked up the other drive while I was running. Quick refresh of the device manager turned it up and now my anti-virus is going to town on it's ass lol

[x88x]

I'm wondering if when you booted with both connected it was just booting to the 320GB and that's why it was giving you the errors even when booting with the 1TB.

Are all the 'IDE' channels actually SATA or is there actually an IDE channel or two on the board? Do you have any CD/DVD/etc drives hooked up to the IDE channel(s)? That might explain the weird ID on channel 0.

[Munty]

The CDD is IDE but that's it. Both HDDs are in SATA plugs so I really don't get it.

As far as booting from the 320GB I think I messed up a bit initially but here's the process I went through!

I have 2 SATA data cables but one has a 90degree connector on one end so it would only fit in one place. That meant I ended up crossing over the cables without thinking of it. Putting the 320GB one in the port ahead of the 1TB one. When I booted in that configuration it gave me the 'safe mode with command prompts, last known good configuration' etc screen because of the issues preventing correct startp on the 320GB one. I selected last known good and it took me up to the userinit.exe error.

I switched off, reversed the data cables and tried again and low and behold no 'start in safe mod' screen which leads me to assume it's trying to run from the healthy 1TB HDD but it still went through to the userinit.exe error which is odd.

I switched off and removed the 320GB HDD again and it boots up as normal and then reconnected the 320 while running and found it in device manager. I've since run registry mechanic which found 20-something errors and put them right. Microsoft Security Essentials is 90minutes into a custom scan of what is now E: drive with what looks like another 60 to go. I'm sure it'll find a LOT of problems and in a way I'll be concerned if it doesn't!

When that's finished I'll make a directory on that volume and fill it with everything I want to keep then wipe the rest. Can I do that to the Windows directories too? I want to just eradicate everything I don't want from E: asap which includes the OS and I'm running everything from C: anyway but don't know if I can just delete anything from it like it's removable media. I'd imagine Windows would try to prevent such idiocy in most situations :D

[x88x]

MBB's will often display SATA channels as slave-less IDE channels, probably just because they can't be bothered to rewrite that portion of their software. So what's happening here is probably that you have two IDE channels and two SATA channels that are being displayed as IDE channels.

Since you have an IDE CD drive, I'm guessing that's the TST-blahblahblah drive. Check the advanced settings in your BIOS; the second IDE channel might just be disabled, which would explain it being greyed out.

Not seeing the boot choice screen just means that it shut down properly, so that doesn't necessarily mean that you were booting off one drive or the other.

If you're wiping the whole 320GB drive, I would format it. If you just delete everything you might run into problems with the disk's MBR still being active and trying to read stuff that isn't there.

[Munty]

I'll definitely reformat it asap but I don't much fancy pulling all the data I want from it straight onto this comp now. Even once the virus check has dealt with everything that it finds I won't trust the 320 until a full reformat has been done. I just don't want to end up brining any nasties onto this HDD or I'm really screwed!

[Munty]

Need different kind of help now. Got together a bundle of about 130GB that I want to bring over from E: to C: but every time I try it gives me the 'disk is full or write protected or file is in use crap' What do I need to do for it to allow the move? Can I change the permissions somewhere or is there something else to blame?

[xr4man]

did you try just a "copy file" rather than "move"? i've found that sometimes makes a difference.

another choice would be to copy to an external drive first if you have one.

or try to move just a few folders at a time until you find something that is offending your OS.

[Munty]

thanks but I think I've tried all that... Tried moving each folder individually and each and every one shows the same problem. Tried copying and moving but both are the same. Even tried cut-pasting to the new drive but still no good.

[Munty]

Seems to be a problem with moving .DLLs from my game folders but not all .DLLs which is very odd. I really don't understand why some would be different, they aren't in use at all so why won't they copy? And why only some of them?

EDIT : scratch that, just had an application file refuse to transfer with the same error. EVery other file in the whole game directory transferred and then with 5 secs left it failed to move this last one...

[xr4man]

something else you could try is to boot off a linux live cd and transfer the files to an external drive, then try and transfer them back to your main drive under windows.

[altec]

something else you could try is to boot off a linux live cd and transfer the files to an external drive, then try and transfer them back to your main drive under windows.

This is always the first route I go to. Used to be DOS disks, and some time with the command prompt. Now I just keep a Ubuntu CD on hand.

If you are skipping booting windows at all you can probably boot with both of them plugged in as well. So you can skip a external.

[Munty]

Thanks guys but I have no external drives and no way to boot from off the HDDs. I tried moving one game directory from the E: drive to a flash drive and it had the same problems. It's certain .dll files and executables that won't copy but so far the only exception to those 2 file types is 1 app file that wouldn't move.

[x88x]

Thanks guys but I have [..] no way to boot from off the HDDs.

What about that CD drive you mentioned..you could boot off that, neh?

Alternately, is this XP Home or Pro?

[Munty]

It's home, and yes I could boot from the CDD if I had a boot disk but that's what I mean :p Can boot from a flash drive if I want but that still won't help me transfer files will it? I can see both HDDs and transfer files between them ok. It's just that certain files refuse to copy or move. THAT's the problem now...

[xr4man]

the point is that i have found that booting off a linux cd sometimes lets you access files/partitions that windows says are corupt. i only say to use an external drive to move files because i can't remember if linux can write to ntfs yet or not. i know it can read from it, but not sure on the writing part.

but if it does, then you wouldn't need teh extra step or hardware of the external drive.

[Munty]

AAAAH I don't get why it just doesn't move! It seems to be applications, executables, DLLs and html files now that won't move. It's still saying the same thing, surely there is a way to allow access to these bloody files isn't there?! I don't have boot disks and external drives and such. I just want to put those files on this HDD!

[farlo]

try emptyloop's unlocker, works pretti well for getting control over those pesky files.

http://www.emptyloop.com/unlocker/

[x88x]

i can't remember if linux can write to ntfs yet or not.
Yup. It has been able to write reliably to NTFS for at least a few years now.


It's home
Hmmm, that is unfortunate.

I think the problem is the file security settings not allowing you to access files because they never knew about the user that you are currently using to try to access them. If you were using Pro it would be a simple matter of changing the file permissions, but home can't do that...because MS decided home users didn't need that function for some reason... :mad:

I think your best bet is to download a Linux live-disk, boot from that, and move the files around wherever you want them.

[Munty]

Thanks guys I'll have another go tomorrow I guess :( No idea what to do with a Linux Live-disk or how to get one though so I'll be back here before any more progress is made I think! And thanks Farlo will take a look at that too!

[xr4man]

you can go here

http://www.slax.org/get_slax.php

download the iso file. then use your burning software to burn it to a disk.

i'm guessing here that you are a bit more of a novice at this stuff than most of us here, so forgive me if i come across to remedial.

now then once you have downloaded the iso file, you want to burn it to a disk. however, you can't just burn the file itself to a disk. you need to tell your burning software specifically to burn an iso file. all the contents of the cd are packaged up into the iso file, so you can't do much with it like that. when you have your burning software burn an iso file to disk, it extracts out all the files and puts them on the disk.

once you have done that, you just reboot your pc with the cd in the cd drive and it will start right up into linux. i belive that slax puts your hard drives right on the desk top.

now you can just open the drive folders and copy to your heart's content.

it's really an easy thing to do.

good luck to ya.

[x88x]

you need to tell your burning software specifically to burn an iso file.
For clarification, some programs say 'load from image file', or something along those lines, instead of specifying a specific format.


i belive that slax puts your hard drives right on the desk top.
Yup. Slax should mount all your drives automatically on boot.

[Munty]

Thanks guys sounds simple enough so will try this now. I usually just use a standard program for burning (ie. drag files to CDD and burn) so I don't know if I'd need to download a more advanced tool to burn the ISO? I've used them before plenty but never put them onto a disk... Downloading now anyway so I'll see if I can get it sorted but if I don't post again for a while it probably means I'm a bit stuck haha

[xr4man]

the burning utility in windows xp doesn't extract the iso files. so you will have to find another burning utility. i think nero has a trial version.

funny thing is, once you boot up in slax, it has the utilities to burn iso files, lol.

[farlo]

IMGburn (http://www.imgburn.com/) is freeware to burn discs, with an easy mode for burning image files. made by the guy that made dvddecrypter.

[Munty]

Cheers guys worked a treat but took forever! I googled for further info on burning ISOs and ended up using a free program called 'Free Easy Burner'. Did I mention it was free? lol

The interface after the boot is very simple and it had no problem at all moving the files I wanted. It did have a big problem with filenames containing non-standard characters though. It simply refused to use them and for some reason wouldn't let me rename them so I left a few things behind but they aren't important...

Anyway I've just booted it up on the 1TB HDD with everything I wanted to save so the 320GB is ready for a reformat but I won't do it just yet. Already run a virus and registry check and came up clean so now I'm going to organise all the new files I bought over, delete the unnecessary and then defrag and such overnight (but not tonight as it'll take a lot of rearranging!!!)

Thanks for all the help, couldn't have done it without you lot!

[x88x]

Good to hear it worked out.

[Munty]

One last problem now as it turns out I actually HAVE moved all the files tonight :p It's all games and documents so not too difficult... I'm stuck with a folder I can't delete now though as it's the system generated 'downloads' folder from my documents on the donor HDD. It's empty but I can't move or delete it and it's going to really bug me. Any thoughts on this one? Or should I boot off the CD again and delete from there?

[xr4man]

i'd just do that. it will save you some heart ache in the long run probably.

[x88x]

Or should I boot off the CD again and delete from there?

Yup, that one. I'm guessing it's another permissions problem...if I ever meet the person who decided it would be a good idea to take that out of XP Home, violence may ensue... -_^

[Munty]

I think I'll join you mate, it's been a right pain... Haven't switched off since last night yet but the defrag was crazy. The before was literally one long red bar of fragmented files! Looks a lot nicer in blue now ;)