Go cheap or go BIG?

[Outlaw]

That is the question.

My system is in my Sig and sys drop down. I am looking to upgrade the graphics. I was looking to SLI. Currently only running a single 8800GTS 640mb and was maybe going to buy 2 8800GT 512mbs for 90 bucks since as a single card is still better then mine. I know my CPU is going to be the biggest bottleneck in almost any gfx upgrade, is a new gfx card like the GTX 460 1GB going to be worth the investment until maybe this time next year when I can then do the board and cpu/ram comfortably?

I'm not looking for the answers to say, why not wait until next year. I was planning to build a new system with an i5 or i7 but now just looking to keep costs somewhat down to get more bills paid and still have fun gaming on the newer games.

Just played Crysis 2 Demo on lowest setting (Gamer) and it was playable but choppy. I am willing to bet my CPU is causing issues, but at 150ish for even the Core 2 Quad, am I going to see that investment returned if I get a gfx upgrade too?

Just a core 2 quad and 2 gtx 460's is about $530 on the egg. I was able to get the gts/c2d to last the last 3ish years, is the cost worth the upgrade or do I just look at 1 460 and a budget i5 build?

I know there is 2 cards on ebay right now and none on my local craigslist but I am guessing the cards might sell for more then I am really willing to pay for a card this outdated. If I were to get the 460/s I would probably run the 8800 as the physics unless it won't be needed with the power of the 460's ..

I am considering SLI 460 because it would be a huge increase in performance, little more future proofing then my 8800 was and is about $40 (before any rebates applied) cheaper then a single 480 card with significantly more performance too.

Should be updated now, but I am running win xp 32bit (yes i know i can't use all the ram available now). Will be getting win 7 64bit soon. Also, I would've liked some water cooling, but not sure that can be an option now (if SLI'd) after seeing the cost of the block for the card. I would not remove the H50.

*update*- after looking at some liquid setups, that option isn't available anymore.
~100 for a Koolance GPU block
~129 for the Koolance Res/Pump/Display
~20 for compression fittings
~10 for hose
~70 for Black Ice GT radiator/fittings

[Airbozo]

If you decide to get rid of your 8800, let me know. Mine needs some company...

BTW: Your biggest bottleneck WILL be your GPU then the CPU. I still game on my system, but the GPU is now showing it's age.

[x88x]

From personal experience, I can assure you; a nice C2Q is still a very capable CPU. I have a Q9450 and have yet to see it struggle on anything.

On the GPU front, I have two GTX260's with full-coverage waterblocks that I'll be looking to sell soon, once I confirm that the second one works (I'm pretty sure it does, just want to make sure before I sell it). I'm looking to get $250 for the pair. Also, I have a Black Ice Extreme III (http://www.dangerden.com/store/black-ice-xtremeiii-radiator.html) for sale for $50. Unfortunately, I can't help with the compression fittings, but I could throw some nice barb fittings in for a good price. Let me know if you're interested.

For a pump, there are other, cheaper, better (imo) options. Or, you could probably find someone on the board here looking to sell a pump.

[diluzio91]

lol... that gtx 260 was working when i passed it along!

[x88x]

lol... that gtx 260 was working when i passed it along!
Yeah, that's why I'm pretty sure it's working; I just haven't actually gotten the rest of my system working yet, so I haven't been able to confirm. :P

[Outlaw]

OK, I may be getting persuaded into getting 2x 460's and skipping on the C2Q and seeing how that is. You guys are saying that the GPU is the main bottleneck in my current system but that would change with the new cards. But the new cards, if I remember correctly, are much more efficient at taking the main load of the graphics work now compared to 3yrs ago. Does that apply for Games as well or was it just movie playback (avi, mpeg, dvd)?

Do you guys think there would be any performance increase to run the 8800gts as the physics proc? If not, i might have one to sell you Airbozo.

While those 260's are really tempting, if I'm going to make a jump, I think I will make the whole jump.

The compression fittings just seemed like a good choice, but aren't required. I don't know what I would have room in my case for a 3x 120mm rad. And yes it would have to go in it. I wouldn't feel comfortable traveling with the hoses exposed to snagging. I'll have a look in the bay and see if maybe I can get the rad though. If I can get a good loop for cheaper then I found, it might be an option although, it is more for looks then performance since I have only had minimal overclocking exp. and currently have everything at stock.

[x88x]

Do you guys think there would be any performance increase to run the 8800gts as the physics proc?

I don't think so. At least, it probably wouldn't be noticeable.

One other thing I didn't think to ask..what resolution is the monitor you game on?

[Outlaw]

Thanks on the 8800.

The native res is 1920x1080 but the only time i use that res is for movies on the tv. I usually run the desktop and play games at 1280x720. Some of that is for obvious hardware reasons and some for just overall size of everything can be a little overwhelming in FPS's.

Monitor is a Samsung Syncmaster 2350

[x88x]

Yeah, if you're only gaming at 1280x720, even a single GTX460 would be massive overkill atm, and I think in a year would still be overkill (though maybe not as massively). Bump up to the 1920x1080 your monitor can actually do and you might start seeing the limits of a single GTX460 in a year.

Let me put it this way. I game at 2048x1152 (yes, strange resolution, I know....highest res monitor you can get short of WQXGA and a $1000 price jump and nobody makes it anymore :( ) and with the single GTX260 I had last time my system was actually up and running, I had all of two times that I ever had any lag when gaming with everything turned all the way up:
1) Far Cry 2 if I was staring at a field on fire with people driving across it shooting at me
2) Prototype, if I was flying a helicopter that was on fire and smoking and I moved the camera into the smoke
In those two cases, I saw a framerate drop just a tad below noticeable....and never any time else, playing any other game.

I say this not to discourage you from purchasing hardware (especially hardware I'm trying to sell you :whistler: ), but to make sure you know if you're going to be wasting money on hardware that you'll never fully utilize.

There's a very good reason why Eyefinity and nvSurround exist. Completely aside from being awesome, modern GPUs had hit a wall where even a line or two down from the top end could power any game on the market at max settings, on any common (ie, less than W/QXGA) resolution monitor. They were in a very strange position where for at least a year or two the hardware had outpaced the software. IDK if this will change or not, but I would be a bit surprised. So, to justify to the consumer making ever faster and faster GPU's, they made it so it could drive more than one monitor in a gaming environment. :D Don't get me wrong, I think it's awesome, just...single monitor gaming, especially at low resolutions, doesn't require the big guns anymore.

EDIT:
I forgot..I did have to turn my graphics settings down in Fallout New Vegas, but that was because of problems with the drivers, not the hardware not being up to the task.

[Outlaw]

Depending on the game I would like to even have the option for 1080 but with the current card, 720 and med-high, it can be difficult to run. Being able to get all the eye candy plus the option to 1080 would be awesome. The reason I was looking at SLI is because the situation I fell into now. I told myself I would just add a second one later, but then it's too late and the cards are really old or old and hard to find.

[Outlaw]

Again, didn't want to go off topic in my other post. The guys here at work aren't helping anything. They mentions the "2gb gtx 460" but that doesn't seem like its worth the gain in single mon setups.

[x88x]

doesn't seem like its worth the gain in single mon setups.

Unless you're pushing WQXGA sized resolutions on a single monitor, I think this is correct.

[diluzio91]

Just a side note, im running a single 6850 which is a little quicker than a 460 at 1920x1080, and with a few games that are installed on my ssd, with my phenom2x4 @4.1GHZ i do notice slowdown, bullet storm with its big open rendered environments is a big perpetrator, i run with all the eye candy on at max resolution, and i slow down as low as 30fps which starts to get a little choppy. I will be selling the card and stepping up to a 560 or 570. Not to talk you out of the 460, but for $50 - 70 more the 560 has a much higher performance. although if you are set on the 460 i have a friend who may be looking to sell a SLI pair to step up to a pair of 560's or 570's, I can talk to you if you would like.

[diluzio91]

ps, my friend says he can let the 460 1gb go for $160

[Blibbax]

Just out of interest, what clockspeed are you running that E6600 at? Might help to judge the extent of any bottlekneck.

I'd strongly reccomend against buying a C2Q right now. They're still not cheap - you may as well save up a bit and buy a modern platform all at once if that's what you want.

If you want to squeeze a little more out of your current system with a GPU upgrade, then it makes a lot of sense imo to get a single GTX460 now, then get a second one if you get a fast enough CPU to feed them in the future.

[FuzzyPlushroom]

ps, my friend says he can let the 460 1gb go for $160

And that's exactly what he should do.

My PSU's a steaming pile of manure (and won't be replaced for a while unless it actually burns out), and can't reliably handle both my 8800GTs - so at the moment I've just got one in there, and it doesn't make an enormous difference in the games I play. My system's a year or so behind the OP's, mind, but SLI will never be more than half again as quick, and that only under ideal conditions.

Get a single 460, run with that for a year or so until you can afford to upgrade the entire system, maybe overclock a bit (more) in the meantime, and enjoy.

[x88x]

SLI will never be more than half again as quick, and that only under ideal conditions.

SLI and CF have come quite a way since the 8xxx generation. I saw a quite comprehensive review of the 5xxx and GTX4xx series' a while back, and both were far past 50% scaling. I don't think either is to 100% yet, but 70% or higher is definitely possible now.

[Outlaw]

Thanks for all the replies.

diluzio91- The 560 Ti is only about 10% better then the Gigabyte GTX 460 Super OC, it's clocks are
$210
# Core Clock: 815MHz
# Shader Clock: 1630MHz
# Stream Processors: 336 Processor Cores.

The GTX I found on the egg was EVGA and clocked at
$200
# Core Clock: 850MHz
# Shader Clock: 1700MHz
# Stream Processors: 336 Processor Cores.

A new GTX 460 1gb can be had for $160 before any rebates assuming that is 160ea and not for the pair.

Blibbax- The E6600 is stock at 2.4Ghz. Are you saying to OC. I wouldn't have a problem trying it and only have done minimal attempts before putting back to stock. The price of the C2Q is what made me hesitant on that upgrade even thought it would be a good boost in performance.

FuzzyPlushroom- I think my psu is up for the challenge as it hasn't been taxed much with this current build other then maybe when all the hdd's are going, but even then, eh. lol It's an 850W

x88x- Which is why I was actually looking at SLI but worried now the rest of the pc couldn't keep up.

The GTX 570 (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814130621) looks to be pretty good too. At $360, it is actually 40 bucks less then the 460's sli'd.

[Outlaw]

Sorry to waste everyone's time but I went the cheap route and just bought another 8800gts to sli. This should get me another yr or 2 hopefully so I can do a complete build instead of a half-azzed one.

I found some reviews and benchmarks of almost my exact system and it looks pretty good. With better drivers now, I am hoping they will be as good if not better.


Thanks again,
Outlaw


If you decide to get rid of your 8800, let me know. Mine needs some company...

BTW: Your biggest bottleneck WILL be your GPU then the CPU. I still game on my system, but the GPU is now showing it's age.


There is some on ebay right now with BIN of 60-70 bucks. Some are cheaper with current bids going on. I was able to get an exact brand match and won for 59 bucks including shipping.

[Blibbax]

Blibbax- The E6600 is stock at 2.4Ghz. Are you saying to OC. I wouldn't have a problem trying it and only have done minimal attempts before putting back to stock. The price of the C2Q is what made me hesitant on that upgrade even thought it would be a good boost in performance.

I would :P

[Outlaw]

Cool.. Will have to do some trial and error now. Got the new(used) gpu today and installed and tested. So far it is a decent gain in performance (20-50fps depending on the game).

Had to bump it down to just 2x2gb for the sli to work, but was able to run the ram at 1066 vs 800. Hopefully be able to squeeze a little more out now.

Thanks for all the help!
Outlaw