PC vs Mac, again

[TheGreatSatan]

http://main.makeuseoflimited.netdna-cdn.com/tech-fun/wp-content/uploads/2010/09/whynottobuyamac.png

[xr4man]

i'd say that pretty much sums up why i don't like macs. not because i think they are junk, but that they are over-priced and over-hyped. oh and just like prius drivers, most mac users feel superior to us lowly "pc" users.

[SXRguyinMA]

well played +rep

[Munty]

I don't really know enough about Macs to launch into a serious technical debate but on the basis of actual functionality, why buy something that has only a tiny proportion of the applications found in PCs? Even a basic desktop has thousands of games and other software, there's nothing they can't do now.

Chances are, there is little to no software exclusive to Mac but I'm betting there is still a huge deal that is exclusive to PC...

[diluzio91]

problem is, a lot of places won't look at you if you don't know how to use aperture (mac only) or final cut (mac only) for photo and video editing, so unless you build a hackintosh you need to buy overpriced apple hardware to get a job.

[TheGreatSatan]

Most people who come in to my work to build a Hackintosh buy an i7 950 and the Gigabyte X58-UD3R, 6GB of RAM, and end up spending about a grand. But for a grand they get one hell of an awesome Mac

Not one of the pissy models they push for 3K

[AmEv]

So, let's say you're the ultimate Apple fanboy. You max out all your hardware.

$20 grand! I'd rather buy a sportscar with that money than a Mac!


So, if for some odd reason you need OSX, spend the money on a Mac case (so it's a Mac-branded piece of hardware, don't want to violate the EULA), and save the money on cheaper hardware.

Lesson learned and taught.

[TheGreatSatan]

I chose all the best specs including a 500GB SSD

http://i406.photobucket.com/albums/pp143/TheGreatSatan/mac.jpg

[diluzio91]

Cant see the specs. but
i7 990x proc
2x GTX 485
2x250gb ssd in raid
same screen res
12gb of ram

$1500 less.

http://img96.imageshack.us/img96/3126/93859975.png

[x88x]

Chances are, there is little to no software exclusive to Mac

Oh, there is quite a bit of it...granted, most of it has a perfectly acceptable Windows analog, but there are a few notable exceptions. Most of those exceptions tend to be really big-ticket software, usually in the media-creation field, like Aperture and Final Cut that diluzio mentioned.


In general, however, I agree with the OP picture. Though I will defend Apple on one point (ugh, even saying that left a bad taste in my mouth :P ).. The monitors. First, all of Apple's monitors are IPS displays, which are have better color accuracy (I hear..never tested that aspect of them) and much better vertical view angles than TN panels (most of the consumer panels on the market are TN)...and are much more expensive than TN panels. Still though; Dell makes a 24" WUXGA IPS monitor that goes for ~$500-600, so there's still quite a large markup on Apple's model. The second point I'll defend them on is the 30" panel. Lots of people (including the person who made that graphic, apparently) don't realize the huge difference between a 24" WUXGA (1920x1200) panel and a 30" WQXGA (2560x1600) panel. WQXGA panels are expensive no matter who you you buy them from, so no, it is not unusual that going from a 24" to a 30" (every 30" monitor I have ever seen on the market has been WQXGA) would double the price. Heck, the only reason it's not a larger percentage increase is because Apple's 24" panel is so expensive. To pull from Dell's product line again (one of the few manufacturers who actually makes a 30" WQXGA panel, along with HP and NEC), their 30" ranges in price from $1,300-1,500, depending on where/when you buy it. So still a good bit less than Apple...but nearly as much less as the graphic makes it seem like it should be.

All that being said..

I really don't see the point of the Mac Pro anymore. I think the only reason it still exists anymore is because of the big-ticket Mac-specific software. If your company is already shelling out $10,000-20,000 for a piece of software, it's not out of the question to put out that much again for the computer to run it on...and as long as Apple keeps suing any companies that try and make hackintoshes, they don't really have any alternative. In time, though, I think the Mac Pro will probably go the way of the Xserve.

[AmEv]

The frustrating part about the Apple suits?

If a small company tried to sue a big company (any of them) for CR infringement or the likes, and they did, the small company would lose.

[TheGreatSatan]

Sagers are like Macs. You're spending way too much money for cheaper parts

[diluzio91]

what brand would you buy?

[TheGreatSatan]

I know, I know...........But I really love my Alienware.

[AmEv]

Voodoo PC!

[Drum Thumper]

The picture seems to be down.

[x88x]

The picture seems to be down.

Still up for me.

[Konrad]

I think Mac and iStuff prices are robbery, too.

To be fair, though: Apple does provide phenomenal customer service/support. They hire Apple Geniuses, after all. I think that's worth something, though certainly not as much as they make you pay to get it.

Also, Macs are always going to be 100% intercompatible with iTunes, iPads, iPods, iPhones, iEtc ... that's great if you buy into their gadgets, seamless functionality. You pay the premium to walk their proprietary path, generic "standard" stuff is helluva lot less expensive and equally functional. Apple products are always very good (not always the best, but often close) so fanbois can easily avoid getting stuck with Shenzhen cheapies ... the rest of us simply do some research instead of spending buckets o' money, but hey, even ignorant lazy people deserve good tech if they really want to pay for it.

I'm ambivalent about brand name. Some people go ape for that Apple logo, it's slick and sexy and speaks money. Doesn't excite me at all, in fact it conjures images of condescending yuppies with too much money, but hey, sometimes you gotta impress the boss and the bimbos ... the sorts of people who don't get excited (don't even recognize) the brands that get me going (like Tux, Gigabyte, and Zalman).

[NightrainSrt4]

I don't have a mac myself anymore, but the build quality on many of their products is on an entirely different level than the "much cheaper" alternatives that are usually presented as argument.

EDIT: The Mac Pro is outrageously priced though.

[slaveofconvention]

The stupid "upgrade" costs arent a Mac exclusive - I remember seeing similar jokes on dells configurator in the past

[Konrad]

IBM and HP have used this practice for decades ... it just has less emphasis on gauging the consumer, more on gauging companies. You get the same (mid-end) sorts of part options at high-end (or higher) prices ... you're also stuck in their certified tech support trap because they remark or OEM useless bureaucratic part numbers over everything and provide no technically useful specs or documentation. The most criminal part, IMO, is forcing you to pay more for a junkware-crippled "value bundle" version of Windows or Office than Microsoft already charges for the proper hologrammed product. As if Microsoft's prices weren't bad enough.

I say more power to them if they can make buckets of money off ignorant or stupid people. I'm willing to make the effort to be informed of alternatives and save money while buying better tech. Sadly, that means no Macs for me.

[artoodeeto]

I have to hand it to Apple's marketers - they're brilliant. And they're smart enough to realize that the people they're marketing to are the ones who aren't the slightest bit interested in how a computer functions, they just want it "to work." Unfortuntately, due to the fact that non-macs have so many intercompatible possibilities that there's no way everything could be tested together, non-macs have picked up the stigmatism that apple plays up (ie, exaggerates/lies about) that they have all sorts of problems during everyday usage or that you have to be a total nerd to figure out how to use. Can't even begin to describe how many times Apple commercials have pissed me off because of their untrue claims of how unreliable PCs are. Maybe it was true 10 years ago, but not so much anymore (of course, I also don't buy cheap preassembled machines with substandard parts, so maybe it is still true for some PCs - for instance, it's amazing how many issues a cheap/bad PSU or motherboard can cause, and most people buying a preassembled machine will never even think about that).

Case in point - for many years my parents were using my old computers, ones I had built for myself but then upgraded from and didn't need anymore. They worked fine, and were far cheaper than their mac equivalents. But when my folks were ready for a new one, they chose to get an iMac and have been much happier with it. Yes, they spent more $$ than on an equivalent PC, but they spent it so they'd almost never have to worry about what was going on under the hood.

For me, though, the monetary savings is WELL worth the occasional bit of research or troubleshooting to figure out why something won't work. And to be perfectly honest, I've had absolutely ZERO issues with Vista and now Windows 7. Of course, I also like tinkering under the hood and such :D so no macs for me either.

[AmEv]

I have an iMac, as some of you know.

It was free, so.....



No OSX for me though. Ubuntu FTW!

[LiTHiUM0XiD3]

i will say this now.. i will not tell you how... nor do i condone this.... but i run more than 1 PC that dual boots XP and OSX... i get the cheap parts... and the amazing OS...
i used to be a hardcore PC guy... if u look up my post im sure there r a few slanderin the mac name...
but here r some basic facts,

ive never seen a MBP over heat..
ive never seen a windows PC made from a CNC aluminium unibody
(wanna blow ur mind? compare MBP HD mounts to a regular laptop)
mac OS is an amazing modular OS... with a terminal and a stunning GUI aswell


so am i mac guy? no
i just cant afford their systems... do i appreciate the OS?
OH HELL YE

[Konrad]

I've always been fascinated with (and postponed learning about) OSX ... my understanding is that, ultimately, it's just an Apple GUI (and layers of Apple proprietary icing) sitting on top of a linux core ... I could be wrong.

True, you'll be hard pressed to find a stock PC with CNC aluminum unibody. Non-stock offers countless options for PCs and (to a lesser extent) Macs as well ... who uses stock anyways?

[x88x]

I've always been fascinated with (and postponed learning about) OSX ... my understanding is that, ultimately, it's just an Apple GUI (and layers of Apple proprietary icing) sitting on top of a linux core ... I could be wrong.

Well, it's based on the Mach kernel, which was developed as a BSD alternative. So no, it's not Linux, but it's similar. And, as of the 10.5 release, OSX apparently gained UNIX certification. Interestingly, NeXTSTEP (the OS that was used on NeXT computers, a company founded by Jobs in 1985) was also based on the Mach kernel....

[x88x]

...on the note of Apple being idiots...

....good holy ****, Apple... -_^ No, you can not trademark "App Store". :facepalm:
http://www.trademarksandbrands.com/2011/01/21/microsoft-opposing-apple%E2%80%99s-%E2%80%9Capp-store%E2%80%9D-trademark/

[LiTHiUM0XiD3]

im not gunna lie... i would try the same damn thing... monopolies r a no go... but if you own the most turf.. ur bound to make some money

[Lothair]

...on the note of Apple being idiots...

....good holy ****, Apple... -_^ No, you can not trademark "App Store". :facepalm:
http://www.trademarksandbrands.com/2011/01/21/microsoft-opposing-apple%E2%80%99s-%E2%80%9Capp-store%E2%80%9D-trademark/

Abbreviations can only be trademarked if they are not descriptive of the goods for which they are used. So in other words, no, they really can't. However I think they also tried arguing that it stands for "Apple Store". That's ridiculous though. Why would they pointlessly shorten it two letters? Without the word Application, there would have been massive confusion and it would have been a bad marketing move. Furthermore, the App Store sells and offers applications. It definitely stands for Application. As such, they can't trademark it.

I'd rather other companies just use "Marketplace" though. Like Amazon Marketplace. It just sounds better.

That or Apple could just call it the "Apple App Store".

[AmEv]

Same with Nintendo Wii and "Wii Remote." Courts said they couldn't trademark it because Remote was too commonplace.

WiiMote, on the other hand,....

[x88x]

WiiMote, on the other hand,....

What about nunchuck? :P

[AmEv]

Were originally called NunBarrys.
Until Mr. Norris came along.
Nobody knows what happened to Barry.

[Konrad]

im not gunna lie... i would try the same damn thing... monopolies r a no go... but if you own the most turf.. ur bound to make some moneyDisagree, in part. Monopolies are illegal. That doesn't make them impractical or mean they don't exist. It seems to me that regulations aren't very tightly enforced until a pack of would-be competitors lobby the courts enough that the government becomes convinced your business is too lucrative to be left untaxed.

[pcclan]

http://i55.photobucket.com/albums/g135/cheryl_hot/apple.png
vs the equal pc
http://i55.photobucket.com/albums/g135/cheryl_hot/pc.png
and the subtotal for the pc is $8,410.82 vs the summary for the mac is $13,917.00

[lynn's engraving]

i kinda like 'riimote' better. :)

[diluzio91]

and the subtotal for the pc is $8,410.82 vs the summary for the mac is $13,917.00

The apple screens are 27 inch cinema screens, with IPS panels, and 2560x1440 resolution, this would be a better replacement

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16824185011

[Lothair]

The apple screens are 27 inch cinema screens, with IPS panels, and 2560x1440 resolution, this would be a better replacement

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16824185011

A difference of only around $200? It's still a difference of about $5000. lol

[TheGreatSatan]

Why use a middle range 5770 for? Is that the best Apple has to offer?

[x88x]

Well, they let you have either two 5770's or one 5870. Though, he had that configured with just one 5770, so yeah, there is room for improvement.

[AmEv]

Still, you can use the money you saved and build a nice machine out of it!


IMM, old Macs are good for one thing:
Mod a ATX MoBo into 'em!

New ones?
Well, not much other than suck your money up!

[pcclan]

Why use a middle range 5770 for? Is that the best Apple has to offer?
the only reason why i choose it is cause i forgot about using the 5870

[diluzio91]

so apple is still selling what to pc users is a low end/entry level card, and a card that was outpaced by a newer generation, and thats your best option??? i see why they are called crapple.

[AmEv]

Yes. The sell 3rd-newest generation components and sell them as newer-than-newest prices.

THEN, they take other companies' hardware, re-brand it, and claim THEY manufactured it.
(the Apple HDD. Apple, you rebranded it; you did NOT make it!)

[Twigsoffury]

i have no idea who makes apples HDD's but i know samsung provides apples SSD drives for there what cha' ma' call it super thin cr'laptops