The ideal building material...

[Munty]

I'mn embarking on a search for that mythical compound and thought some advice from the guys here who have built with just about every substance known to man may help me on the way :D

It's not casemod related I must confess but it'll require many of the same properties so it's a good place to start asking questions I think. What I'm after is something strong and light, it'll be forming an essentially hollow shape (the largest cavity being about 60cm long by about 25cm wide) but there's more than one part to the build so that's not the only thing that's important...

I've been thinking of using thin wooden board for this project as I'm very limited with space and tools so I could manage wood much easier. It now seems I'm going to be needing to use a lot more material than I initially realised so in an attempt to keep the weight down I wonder if there may be something better.

Current suggestions include sheet styrene, fibreglass and wood. Metal is absolutely out of the question due to my inability to manipulate it in the necessary way.

Essentially I need to find something to build from that hits the right ratio of strong:light and something that I can work with fairly easily and inexpensively without a great deal of space and a serious lack of tools.

So if anyone has any ideas please let me know, I'm not asking too much right :D

[d_stilgar]

I would second fiberglass or even carbon fiber. If what you are building has curves, the curves will reinforce and strengthen the fiberglass or carbon fiber.

Angles can be done pretty easily with metal, but you are saying you don't have the tools to manipulate it in the necessary way, which leads me to believe there are complex curves.

Without knowing what you are doing, the best thing I can come up with is that you eventually have some sort of wood frame with a fiberglass shell, but it really depends on what you are building, how it needs to function, weight limits, strength specifications, stiffness specifications, etc.

[x88x]

What is the intended application? Sounds to me like Carbon Fiber would be an ideal fit...it can get a bit pricey though.

[Munty]

Thanks for the advice so far guys :) I know I'm not giving much in the way of details but I don't want to share too much before I start the build! There won't be any curves at all (save for some tubular sections that will be made from, you guessed it, tube!) so when I say manipulate I guess I really mean cut'n'connect.

I think realistically I need to ignore what tools I do/don't have and just plan to buy whatever is necessary for the medium I choose to work in so although that frees me up slightly more it is still very cost prohibitive...

Carbon Fibre would work fine but I'll end up with none of it showing whatsoever so the extra cost would essentially be wasted. (It's going to be decorated by the way, not covered with another material!)

Personally I'm a fan of the wood and fibreglass option as it's already something that's in my mind as possible. Wood doesn't require a great deal of gizmos to work with but it would certainly be worth my while to invest in a decent bench saw or similar if I use that. The sheer number of cuts will be pretty large by the end! As for the fibreglass I'd need a mentor of sorts as it'd be totally new to me :D I have an outdoor space provided the weather is good as I believe this s one of the times when ventilation is good yes?

I'd really like to finish what I'm already working on before starting with this but currently I'm having communication issues with 2 out of 2 suppliers so maybe I can start sooner than planned if I decide on materials :D

[Konrad]

The extra cost for carbon fibre is not only related to cosmetic/appearance. You won't find many other materials with a similar strength:weight ratio. Incidentally, engineers look at it as "the strength:weight:cost triangle" because materials exist for every conceivable application, an important question is how much you want to spend on them. The real trick behind all modern engineering is composite materials, that is, using more than one type of material so that strength:weight:cost can be most efficiently optimized, an example might be using a wooden frame supported with a few carefully placed metal ribs.

Your intended application is too mysterious to allow for specific recommendations. We don't know if it's intended to bear loads or stresses, we don't know anything about the complexity of scale and can only assume it might have something to do with computers and electronics. We don't know if you require balsa wood, ABS engineering thermoplastic, carbon weave, aircraft-grade titanium-magnesium alloy, or ceramic space shuttle tiles. We also don't know if any thermal or electrical considerations are involved.

Fiberglass and carbon fiber require some tools and chemicals which might be too costly for a small one-off project, though you might be able to shop it out economically. Ventilation is certainly required since inhaling fiberglass dust particles and the fumes from "industrial" solvents and resins is not good.

It's probably best for you to stick with whatever materials you can work with the tools and skills at hand. There are DIY sites and videos involving all the materials listed above (except maybe the space shuttle tiles), they should at least give you an idea of what else you might need to buy or learn before moving forward. You can always build a prototype of your Mysterious Mod Thing from the materials you know (wood, styrene), it might serve your intended application perfectly, it might require minor revisions or expose design flaws, it might demonstrate that a different material is required.

[Munty]

Thanks Conrad, I know I'm being very mysterious again aren't I? I seem to do that a lot :p Part of the reason I've not shared much is because this actually isn't a computer related build so it's a bit out of place here as it is, though I will most likely share some pics later :p

Right now I've been advised that 2mm plasticard is going to be my best bet for this. I think I'll get some plastic strut and bar to reinforce some of the joins and a few well placed braces should give me a good result. In the meantime though I'm having trouble finding anywhere that supplies the stuff cheap enough for me to fund the project!

I'm looking for 18 A3 sheets and 2 A2 (of just 10 A2 should suffice) but prices for those sizes are horrendous and my best quote so far is about £80 delivered! I'd like to halve that really but Anything less than £50 delivered would be feasible.

So I'm wondering is anyone here knows of somewhere I could get this stuff from? I know this is an international site but maybe it's dead cheap in America and postage isn't too bad :p (it's styrene sheet over there I believe) Anyone in Europe who knows of a cheap supplier would certainly be a bonus as it doesn't cost much to ship across the channel.

So anyway, I need some plasticard, lots of plasticard, and it needs to be ruddy big stuff too :p If anyone has any good suppliers who may be able to help me out please let me know so I can get started on this. The sooner I do the sooner I can share my grand desing lol

Cheers!

[Konrad]

You might be able to use thin sheets of wood, particle board, or cardboard; reinforced with metal or plastic sheets or ribs or struts, joined with adhesive (don't dismiss adhesives; some of them are seriously strong if given enough surface area). You don't need more than hand tools to do basic work with small pieces of metal, and it's readily available at scrapyards (or panels can be salvaged from old vehicles and computers).

Of course, plastics might be preferable ... you might need to use an cheaper (inferior) material.

[Munty]

Thanks Conrad, I have thought about thin wooden board but I think the weight would be a fair bit more than a plastic sheet. Even using a lighter sheet is ultimately not much more than a decreased density and therefore a compromise in strength...

I was thinking about foamboard very seriously as I can fund the whole build for £30 which is great. I've been advised that it's not really ideal for what I'm planning though so I'm not sure again now :( A thought I have had though is to use foamboard for the majority of the build and then a wooden subframe in addition to strengthen the central part of it and give it some added rigidity...

I don't really want to have to compromise just because of money but £80 is almost twice what I'd like to pay for the materials I'm going to need so I just don't know if I can justify that :(

[Konrad]

Wood might be your cheapest option. Wood panels usually have a grain, layering multiple panels in a criss-cross fashion (like plywood) provides tremendous strength. You can shape curves and complex shapes (like violins) with patience, clamping, steam, heat, and adhesives.

You could also go Mythbusters style and layer measurable thicknesses of duct tape ... it's basically cloth and adhesive, very strong stuff when used in quantity. Other forms of tape (even carbon-fiber tape) exist, but duct tape is probably the least expensive type which uses cloth weave.

[Munty]

Thanks Conrad, I've hit on a few sites selling plasticard at much more reasonable prices than I've seen so far so I may be able to go with that after all now! I think there will still be a small amount of wood used to strengthen the main body of the build though.

[Beta-brain]

I'm in the UK as well and if your still after plasticard I bought some from here (http://www.stationroadbaseboards.co.uk/cart_plastic.htm)

A3 size you wanted would be within the 325mm x 440mm x 2mm sheets they sell and 18 sheets would cost around £53, don't know about p+p as it would be quite heavy.
If you have found it cheaper somewhere else please post a link to them as I want some more plasticard soon myself. ;)

[lynn's engraving]

better late than never....

are you planning to vacuum form the plasticard? i have absolutely no idea what you're trying to form or the size, though if you've given fibreglass a consideration, i'm guessing it's large? is it possible to use a bit of wood or rebar for an armature, then some chicken wire (or any kind of support you want) and expandable foam, the kind you get in a can and you can shape/sculpt/hollow out? you can even paint the stuff once you put some filler in there.

vacuum forming was my first idea, though even that sounds out of your price range, unfortunately. bits of wood can often be had for nothing if you keep an eye out on trash day, lol. sometimes people can get you really nice wood skids if you ask around, though the quality of these can vary greatly. just thought i'd throw that out there. :)

[Munty]

Hey Beta Brain, sorry I missed your post as I can possibly help you out! I went ahead and ordered my stuff from Trylon and the page you want is here :

I called them up as I wasn't sure that the stuff for vacuum forming would be the same kind of stuff as standard plasticard but I was told it was so I bought a whole bunch of it and couldn't be happier. I got 9 sheets of the stuff for about £34 and it's roughly A2 size (though they're cut to fit formers so not available in actual paper-sizes) Not only do I feel I got myself a bargain but the stuff arrived the very next day and it also came with a little A4 catalogue of a whole bunch of awesome other bits and pieces they supply!

It's funny that you've used that station baseboards as I spoke to him myself some time ago about sourcing this stuff for me but it always seemed like a lot of hassle as he'd need to order it in and such.

As for what I wanted it for... No I'm not using it to vacuum form, just a standard build. And yes I am building something rather large.

Ladies and gentlemen may I introduce to you the X-88 Mammoth Mark 1 of Command and Conquer fame!
http://i1198.photobucket.com/albums/aa460/Tim_Munt/Mammoth%20Build/Mammoth.jpg
http://i1198.photobucket.com/albums/aa460/Tim_Munt/Mammoth%20Build/Mammoth41.jpg
http://i1198.photobucket.com/albums/aa460/Tim_Munt/Mammoth%20Build/Mammoth77.jpg
http://i1198.photobucket.com/albums/aa460/Tim_Munt/Mammoth%20Build/Mammoth119.jpg
http://i1198.photobucket.com/albums/aa460/Tim_Munt/Mammoth%20Build/Mammoth124.jpg
http://i1198.photobucket.com/albums/aa460/Tim_Munt/Mammoth%20Build/Mammoth132.jpg

This is on hold at the moment as I have some more stuff to be doing to the laptop case but it's come along very nicely so far. I need to finish 4 more small pieces to complete the two front track pods and then I can attach them to the body. two pieces still need cutting for the top but they'll be removable to allow internal access as I'm going to making the bad boy RC! After that it's just the turret to do before I have to start with the plating, detailing and hardware (all of which I already had but didn't come cheap!) The significance of the image of track is a comparison between 1:16 scale Tiger, King Tiger and hadn modified Mammoth tank tracks respectively. I need about 3.5meters of the stuff for the whole build and am currently 1/4 of the way there with it! I've figured out how to drive it but need more parts for the suspension and bogey wheels. Also need a battery, some crystals and a controller for it. Oh and I don't have any turning/lifting/firing hardware for the turret yet. I do have all the control boards, gearboxes and sprocket wheels for the tracks however (and Heng Long no less ;)) so it's getting there.

Anyway there's a build thread here > http://www.rctankwarfare.co.uk/forums/viewtopic.php?f=23&t=7270 for anyone interested in the journey so far. I'd have shared it here but it doesn't seem to fit with what we do so it's over at RC tank warfare which is turning out to be a very good site with some very helpful guys in it!

I'll let everyone return to their normal business now :D

[Konrad]

Always loved Mammoth tanks ;)

[lynn's engraving]

i'm just glad to see what you were working on. :) looks good so far.

i take it that that's the plasticard?

[msmrx57]

I'd have shared it here but it doesn't seem to fit with what we do

Whaaaa???? :? There's a little bit of everything on here. Yes most of it is computer related but not exclusively. We've got motorcycles, trucks, cars, mobile audio threads. If it's a matter of not wanting to do multiple work logs that's understandable.


By the way that thing is looking AWESOME!!!!

[x88x]

Whaaaa???? :? There's a little bit of everything on here. Yes most of it is computer related but not exclusively. We've got motorcycles, trucks, cars, mobile audio threads.

Heheh, yup. :D

http://i428.photobucket.com/albums/qq3/x13931x/modWalk.png

[Beta-brain]

Hey Beta Brain, sorry I missed your post as I can possibly help you out! I went ahead and ordered my stuff from Trylon and the page you want is here :

Thanks for that, I've not seen the Trylon site before and it has some really useful stuff on it, loving the tank build I used to build a lot of armour and military vehicle kits but never any RC models.

Have you seen this before? The Dension WiFi RC is a plug∧play wireless RC receiver.
It allows you to control your RC car, boat, tank, construction machine or any other RC vehicle with your iPhone using WiFi. The iPhone application, available for free in the App Store, lets you drive with on-screen joysticks or by tilting the phone, while watching the real-time video stream coming from your vehicle.
You can quickly access 8+4 channels of output, adjust the sensitivity and trimming, just like on a professional transmitter. (http://wirc.dension.com/)
VERY 8)

I'd like to build something just to try that out but I don't have an iphone although the Android app is under development.

[Munty]

Haha yeah soudns very cool but I also have no iPhone :D I figure a normal phone works just fine and anything a cheap one doesn't do, well that's what computers are for :p I have the luxury of not needing email and internet when I'm out of the house (though it's my personal opinion that 99% of people who have it are actually in the same boat) so why bother?

Anyway... Yes I'm aware there's a misc section here but I thought it would be simpler to have it just in one place which of course should be the most suitable for the type of project it is. In this case that's the tank site :D Maybe I'll make a thread here when it's finished but for now I'll leave you guys with just the link for it if you want to check it out.

Anyway still no progress on this OR the lappy right now as I'm trying to get fit and have been at the gym a lot :p Am further along with the lappy so that's taking precedence and is nearly done but I need to stay focused for one final push! After that I'll get back to the Mammoth, I do have 9 new games arriving this week too though so it might be a little longer yet before I carry on!

Stupid Easter holiday making me stop modding lol

(And yes that IS the stuff from Trylon, it's really great and I'd certainly recommend it! Thanks for the comments folks!)