Holy..... Well, at least it's Craftsman. :D

[x88x]

Right, so, the axle nut on my car is being a royal pain in the a**. Couldn't budge it without a breaker bar, so I went to Lowes and picked up a 7' section of blackpipe (hey, it was $2 more than the 4' pieces, ok?). That, plus my 1/2" Craftsman ratchet (yes, yes, I know...don't use a ratchet for that...well, as it turns out it wouldn't have mattered), I thought would be good to get it off. Well, I set it up, got the ratchet supported by the scissor jack, and heaved. ...and the wheel proceeded to spin, even though the car was in gear, sitting on the ground. Well, I tried again, and...POP! At first, I thought the nut had come loose, but nooooo....
http://i428.photobucket.com/albums/qq3/x13931x/snappedRatchet_00.jpg
http://i428.photobucket.com/albums/qq3/x13931x/snappedRatchet_01.jpg

It sheered off the freakin post!

...and this is one reason why I buy Craftsman. :P They're high quality (for non-professional grade), and when they do break, they replace it for free, no questions asked. I'll be swinging by Sears tomorrow and getting them to replace it. Also, I'll be picking up the proper tool to do this with. :P


Oh, and before anyone asks or recommends it, yes, the nut is now soaking in WD-40.

[mDust]

That's some pretty crazy torque! I've broken a few of those but never sheared the drive thingy (<--technical term) off. The ones I broke were all 1/4" and 3/8" drives too. Not a 1/2"!:eek:

[altec]

If you were at Home Depot why didn't you just get a breaker bar? A Husky one is $20. Would have been worth it when you count the cost of the pipe, with the fuel to go get the ratchet swapped seems like the breaker bar would have been about the same. Pretty sure a Craftsman one is under $30 as well.

Oh, get you some PB Blaster. I don't even have a can of WD40... Blaster is worth its weight in gold for all my rusty junk. I use that, and I have a couple cans of different ZEP lubes. I believe they are 45, and 2000. The 2000 is sweet because it goes on really thick, but when it sits it thickens into a grease. Makes it great for lubing parts you can't take apart.

[x88x]

why didn't you just get a breaker bar?

Honestly? Because I didn't think of it. That's how my dad always did it, so I figured, hey, if it works, why not? :P ...of course, the pipe he has for that is only about 3' long...but still. I'll probably still use the pipe with the breaker bar just because it makes it so damn easy. Leverage FTW. :D Oh, and there's a Sears on the way to work, so it won't be much extra driving.

[blaze15301]

id watch that lifetime warranty with craftsmen. i broke the lock on my torque wrench and they refused to replace it something about its not a hand tool or some bs.

[Oneslowz28]

I break several craftsman ratchets a year. Usually I strip the locking mechanism inside. I have bent the handle before, replaced one that had visually been beaten to hell with a hammer, and even returned one that was missing everything but the handle. Sears honors that warranty no matter what.

[mDust]

I break several craftsman ratchets a year. Usually I strip the locking mechanism inside. I have bent the handle before, replaced one that had visually been beaten to hell with a hammer, and even returned one that was missing everything but the handle. Sears honors that warranty no matter what.

This. You sound like my dad. :D He abuses the hell out of his tools (when he can find them). He usually only buys the Craftsman stuff because it tends not to break, but if it does there's never any cost to replace it. He's definitely gotten some strange looks from Sears staff before and I'm sure everything he's brought in was expedited to a secret Craftsman engineering lab to find out what happened to it and why it broke. I'll bet my dad has a mile long case file of unsolved mysteries.:whistler:

[blueonblack]

When I was turning wrenches professionally I went through a lot of Craftsman ratchets also. I had one that I used a lot, always for the same job, and it always broke the same way, stripping the teeth, and my elbow always ended up slamming the floor when it did. What sensible engineer puts fine teeth on a ratchet with an eleven-inch handle??

Sears replaced three of them with brand new units, but the last two I broke they reached into a box under the register and tried to hand me a "refurbished" ratchet. Needless to say I wouldn't take it, but it took a lot of complaining those last two times. In fact, the only reason I got it was because I had one particular sales guy that I liked and I would wait until he was working to buy my tools (and my tool box) whenever I could. They worked on commission. Here's hoping you have better luck at your local Sears. That has been a long time ago, they may have given up the "refurbished replacement" policy.

The last one I got from them has never been used. I bought an eleven-inch Mac ratchet for $75 and it's been nothing but perfect for me. I've had a 3-foot cheater bar on it, and it's only 3/8" drive. That's a ludicrous price for a ratchet, but I know it will do anything I want it to do and not complain.

Edit: Let me add that since I'm not a professional mechanic any more you won't see me buying anything off the tool truck any more. Craftsman is fine for me now, didn't mean to make it sound otherwise. Honestly, Kobalt tools are my tool of choice now, sold at Lowes and they have the same warranty Craftsman does.

[Oneslowz28]

I forgot to mention that the only time I have had issues returning something, was when there was visible evidence that a non impact socket was used with an impact wrench. The square drive hole will have rounder than normal corners that come from the impact wrench pounding on them. Our local sears refused to take the cracked socket due to that visible damage on the drive hole. So I took it to another sears that was much larger, and they replaced it with no questions asked.

I am with BoB though, I use to have to replace the head gasket on one of my old eclipses every few months and the craftsman tq wrench I used kept breaking. I finally spent $180 on a Snapon from a tool truck I chased down and have not had a problem since. They even re calibrate it for me any time I think it needs it. But other than some stuff I bought off a Matco truck during a summer job one year, most of my tools are craftsman.

[altec]

Honestly? Because I didn't think of it. That's how my dad always did it, so I figured, hey, if it works, why not? :P ...of course, the pipe he has for that is only about 3' long...but still. I'll probably still use the pipe with the breaker bar just because it makes it so damn easy. Leverage FTW. :D Oh, and there's a Sears on the way to work, so it won't be much extra driving.

Haha, fair enough. Good news on the Sears as well. Should make things easier!


Over the years, I think I've gotten a good bead on where to spend, and where to save on tools. For example, I HATE using cheaper ratchets. For two main reasons. First being the fact that I find myself trying to hold the socket so I can get the ratchet to...ratchet properly since they aren't as smooth. Another random thought is, like blueonblack said, they'll try to stick you with a reburb. Like to see Sears give me a reburb socket that had the side wall blown out... Second simply being comfort. On the other hand as long as they have a warranty, and the size marks aren't going to wear off I have no problem with cheaper model sockets.

[Oneslowz28]

You say that about the sockets now. Wait until you are elbows deep in an engine bay and trying to break loose a starter bolt, and the socket breaks, causing your knuckles to slice and grind with all of your body weight into the corner of the oil pan....

[blueonblack]

You say that about the sockets now. Wait until you are elbows deep in an engine bay and trying to break loose a starter bolt, and the socket breaks, causing your knuckles to slice and grind with all of your body weight into the corner of the oil pan....

That's one thing I've never done, I have never broken a socket. I used Buffalo (read: cheap Chinese junk) sockets for a year or so and even they never gave me any trouble. I won't use 12-point sockets for that very reason. 6-point sockets are a little harder to use but they are a LOT stronger.

[altec]

You say that about the sockets now. Wait until you are elbows deep in an engine bay and trying to break loose a starter bolt, and the socket breaks, causing your knuckles to slice and grind with all of your body weight into the corner of the oil pan....

bin dar, dun dat. although I go underneath for 90% of starters. :D

Honestly, I've had Snap-on sockets brake. It is going to happen no matter what. The best you can do is inspect your sockets for cracks, stretching, and other damage on a regular basis. Most all of the breaks I've had involved already cracked sockets, sockets that were stretched causing all the force to be applied right on the corner where it is thinnest, or the socket was used for something it shouldn't have damaging it. One of the bonuses of chrome sockets is it is a lot easier to spot damage then black ones. Although I do prefer non-plated sockets. It only takes one spin with your fingers around the socket to get either the most painful cut of your life, or the most painful sliver of your life. OWWWWW!!!!! :mad:

[Airbozo]

I have broken many sockets working on my old 69 Chevelle. Seems everything was put on with a torque wrench and bender bar... I have never had anyone question me when I took any Craftsman tool in for exchange when it broke.

Here's a funny story:
My SO's grandfather broke his Craftsman hammer (wooden handle) so he took it back. The clerk called everyone in the tool area over to examine the hammer. Turns out it was about 40 years old. He wanted the same model, but Sears had not sold it in several decades so they let him pick out his replacement. When he died several years ago, his son got the hammer (it was a family joke), all nicely packaged in a velvet lined hat box. It still sits in that box as a joke.

[dr.walrus]

I thought this is why everyone had a few big-ass non-ratcheted ones, just to break the seal?

[x88x]

lol, nice story about the hammer. :D

This wouldn't work anymore, since they dropped their lifetime replacement on hoses, but many years ago my dad bought, iirc, 3 Craftsman rubber garden hoses. Over the course of ~15 years, he got them replaced, iirc, 3 times, just as they wore out from regular use. Ended up working out to ridiculously cheap for each hose. :P Unfortunately, several years ago they dropped a lot of gardening equipment from their lifetime replacement policy. :(

As for breaking sockets, I've only ever had one socket break on me. It was a Craftsman, but it was at least 30 years old, and it was a 14mm 3/8" socket that I was torquing with that 3' pipe my dad uses for a breaker bar. I think that qualifies for being "used for something it shouldn't have". :P That was on a bolt holding the head on my 1980 Honda motorcycle....I seriously doubt it had been taken off in the last decade.


It's good to know that they don't consider torque wrenches to be 'hand tools' though. My torque wrench is a Craftsman, though it is probably older than me...picked it up at a yard sale for dirt cheap, still in the original box. :D

[x88x]

I thought this is why everyone had a few big-ass non-ratcheted ones, just to break the seal?

I will later tonight....just didn't have one yesterday.

[dr.walrus]

I will later tonight....just didn't have one yesterday.
That's the answer when you don't have the right tool...

HIT IT!

....

HARDER!

[blueonblack]

That's the answer when you don't have the right tool...

HIT IT!

....

HARDER!

I've found that this works better with the generous application of heat. :D

[x88x]

That's the answer when you don't have the right tool...

HIT IT!

....

HARDER!

lol. Or, if the lever's not big enough, get a bigger lever. :P I know the damn thing is supposed to move...I just need to find something that won't break first. :facepalm: Crazy thing is, I had the nut off just a couple years ago when I replaced the CV joints...I don't remember having anywhere near this much trouble with it then. ...I just had a really bad idea....no, no, reeeaaallly bad idea...no, I'd rather not break my car, thanks. I'm just gonna forget I thought of that.. :whistler:

[Collinstheclown]

lol. Or, if the lever's not big enough, get a bigger lever. :P I know the damn thing is supposed to move...I just need to find something that won't break first. :facepalm: Crazy thing is, I had the nut off just a couple years ago when I replaced the CV joints...I don't remember having anywhere near this much trouble with it then. ...I just had a really bad idea....no, no, reeeaaallly bad idea...no, I'd rather not break my car, thanks. I'm just gonna forget I thought of that.. :whistler:

Impact wrench. Ryobi makes a 200ft-lbs one that apparently runs on battery, should do the trick. I'm trying to find pics of what I did to ratchets trying to get the same bolt off of my old Corolla.

Ended up driving to a friends house breaking the nuts loose with his ~150ft-lbs impact driver, pneumatic of course. Then driving home with them loose lol. Wasn't a far drive luckily.

[altec]

Amazing what a impact can do... I was having trouble with the air compressor one day, and needed to replace the axle shafts on a Dana 44. Tried to get the axle nuts off by hand. Came down to a 3/4" drive ratchet, 5' piece of DOM tubing, and I started lifting the freaking Jeep off the ground. And this was a 4.7 V8 Grand Cherokee... Ended up putting a jack under the ratchet and raised it under the handle. Someone was going to break, I didn't care what... Moral of the story is, I've had similar cases where some Blaster, and a impact made it seem like a machine screw...

[x88x]

Yeah, I know that would be the right way to do it, but unfortunately any impact wrench would cost me at least $150 (no air compressor yet), and I just don't have the money to throw at it right now.

I finally figured out the name of the thing I've been trying to think of.. I think I'll pick up one of these tonight instead of a breaker bar:
http://www.sears.com/shc/s/p_10153_12605_00947641000P?prdNo=3&blockNo=3&blockType=G3
Impact driver. Same as an impact wrench, but I hit it with a hammer instead of air or a solenoid. ...also it's a helluvalot cheaper.

[altec]

Got one of those in both a 3/8" and 1/2". My opinion is they are handy to have around but if what you are using it on can come off with banging on that, it will most likely come off with a breaker bar. You just don't get the repeated action of a impact with the driver.

I, in fact find the 3/8" one useful with a set of Phillips sockets, Allen sockets, etc. Since you get the twisting motion at the same time as a downward motion it is good to keep from stripping the head. This all assumes you have the room though...

[AmEv]

That's wha.........


Uhm.....

Ooops.

[x88x]

I just got a 1/2" for now. If I run into a situation later when a 3/8" one would be handy, I'll pick one up then.

And I am happy to say that the Craftsman replacement policy is still alive and well. :D

[altec]

Lol, get any funny looks for the ratchet?

[x88x]

Actually, nobody mentioned it...I was a little disappointed. :( I kept the piece that broke off though. :D

[Cale_Hagan]

x88x your dad sounds exactly like mine, are we related? :eek:

[dr.walrus]

x88x your dad sounds exactly like mine, are we related? :eek:
That's what I was thinking...

When my father was 29, he was working on scaffolding and pulling out a nail with a crowbar. He snapped the head of the nail off, the crowbar hit him in the chest, he stood up hard and hit the back of his head on the plank above him.

It's not totally clear what happened to him, but they think he compressed his brainstem, because he had a stroke a few hours later and almost died - I was only a little kid, but he describes having a constant mingraine for the next two years.

Because of the risk of further bleeds to his brain, the doctor advised him to quit physical work, and he went and got an IT qualification, and became a consultant for small businesses. I worked for him since I was a little kid, so both types of work seem to have rubbed off.... Sounds similar to a lot of people here, actually

[x88x]

Ok, you were right altec...I couldn't get it to budge with the impact driver. ...plus, the little ball bearing that latches the socket in place fell out. :(

So, I stopped by Harbor Freight today and picked up an 18" long 1/2" breaker bar (hey, it's on the way, it's cheap, and while it's not as well designed as the Craftsman one, they have a similar replacement policy, and since I half expected to break this one too...). Ginormous socket + new breaker bar + 7' torque multiplier (aka, pipe), and it finally came off! :D :banana: :banana:

Now I can finally replace that stupid lower ball joint! :D ...right after I get some dinner...

[altec]

Dang. Honestly, I would much rather have been wrong. :(

Hopefully the ball joint puts up less of a fight...

[mDust]

Unless it's the cheapest of the cheap, good luck breaking a breaker bar. Those things are tough and almost never the weakest link. Using a ratchet to break a bolt loose is usually not a good idea anyway. Do I know this? Yeah. Do I do it anyway? Yeah. Hypocritical? Yeah. :D

With the breaker bar though, be careful how much torque you apply to a bolt with a pipe. It's pretty easy to twist the head of a bolt right off...even the big ones. At that point you may or may not be SOL. If the female threaded part is expensive, figure SOL 95% of the time.

[Collinstheclown]

Ok, you were right altec...I couldn't get it to budge with the impact driver. ...plus, the little ball bearing that latches the socket in place fell out. :(

Wish I saw that sooner, I could have told you those were useless for auto stuff. Especially the CV joint nut.

Oh well, glad to hear you got it off!

[msmrx57]

Unless it's the cheapest of the cheap, good luck breaking a breaker bar. Those things are tough and almost never the weakest link.

Well... uhmmmmmm..... not so much. :mad: I've broken 3 or 4 Craftsman 1/2" breaker bars off in the same place that ratchet broke. And that was only with a 2' pipe added. The weak point is the socket retention bb. But since I have never seen a breaker bar without that design flaw:facepalm: I'll stick with Craftsman since I get a new one every time.

[Konrad]

Interesting that the ratchet post failed before the gearlock teeth. Looks like a nice solid piece of hard white steel ... damned strong but zero flexibility. How much weight was resting on the 1/2" cross-section?

[x88x]

Interesting that the ratchet post failed before the gearlock teeth. Looks like a nice solid piece of hard white steel ... damned strong but zero flexibility. How much weight was resting on the 1/2" cross-section?

I think I was supporting it well with the scissor jack, but it may have had some downward force on it as well.

Well, I did finally finish the job, and....if anyone ever tells you that you have to take the axle nut off on a 96 Mazda Protege in order to change the lower ball joint, THEY ARE LYING! :evil: Stupid Haynes manual...why do you tell me to do stupid things... :evil:

[altec]

Well hell, I could have told you that. Didn't realize you were just doing the ball joint.

[x88x]

lol, yeah...that'll teach me to not bother reading the instructions all the way through before starting.. :facepalm:

[mDust]

Well... uhmmmmmm..... not so much. :mad: I've broken 3 or 4 Craftsman 1/2" breaker bars off in the same place that ratchet broke. And that was only with a 2' pipe added. The weak point is the socket retention bb. But since I have never seen a breaker bar without that design flaw:facepalm: I'll stick with Craftsman since I get a new one every time.

Huh. I've honestly never seen that part of a ratchet or any other similar tool break before. I used a ~4' pipe on a breaker bar on my rusted struts last summer. The end of the bar supported 170+ lbs of me...~650ft-lbs torque which is about half what that 1/2" steel stud should max at. Hehe, yeah, I could see a 7' pipe snapping it off pretty easily, but to have that happen repeatedly? That's terrible.


Interesting that the ratchet post failed before the gearlock teeth.Indeed. I've broken a couple of cheap ratchets and it's always been the teeth that failed. I can't imagine how they'd hold up better than 1/2" of solid steel regardless of grade.


Well, I did finally finish the job, and....if anyone ever tells you that you have to take the axle nut off on a 96 Mazda Protege in order to change the lower ball joint, THEY ARE LYING! Stupid Haynes manual...why do you tell me to do stupid things... Lol. I'll store that away for future reference! And Chilton manuals are better!

[x88x]

Indeed. I've broken a couple of cheap ratchets and it's always been the teeth that failed. I can't imagine how they'd hold up better than 1/2" of solid steel regardless of grade.

Only thing I can think is that the ratchet was brand new (so the teeth were at their strongest), and I must not have been supporting the ratchet as well as I thought. That's another nice thing about the breaker bar; it has a much longer, more uniform surface to support itself on the jack.

Oh, and fwiw, I think I was putting ~50-60lb of my weight about 1' from the end, so probably ~300-360ftlb of torque. Though, if it got really stuck, and I threw my whole weight on it, I could get over 1,000 ft-lb (over 1 ft-kip! heehee, kips...silly SAE people :P ).

[altec]

The teeth in 1/2" drives are pretty bulky compared to 3/8". I think the failure has to do with the hole going right through the center of the ratchet for the quick release, combined with possibly improper heat treating.

[Konrad]

I'm a chilton guy myself. Of course that might be because I don't tend to fix mechanical engines much larger than lawnmovers, lol.

[x88x]

I think the failure has to do with the hole going right through the center of the ratchet for the quick release

I wondered about that being a contributing factor when I saw the cross-section once it broke. IDK, the more I think about it, the more I think I just didn't have it supported properly so too much of the force I was putting on it was just going straight down at that line.

[Konrad]

It could be a deliberately engineered failure point. Too much force equals dead tool and something broken no matter how it's done, perhaps this failure is designed as the one which (somebody decided) would inflict the least damage to the user/etc. Or perhaps a grade of metal meeting higher specs for this application wouldn't be cost effective in the manufacturing.

I think it's really just geometry. The gears collectively have greater volumetric surface area and structural support (ie: the entire rounded armature of the tool head). The broken pin is square (which is an awful shape for twist-strain) and concentrates all the force in a 0.5x0.5" planar cross section (it's only going to break across the gap between the ratchet and socket, not within them). I'm a bit surprised, but my opinion of Craftsman ratchets has gone up; I've stripped ratchet gears many times before (in little ratchets, I admit) and even broken a few wrench and vice-grip handles (almost breaking my knuckles and half my arm each time) ... if only my driver pins had broken instead, lol.

[peterlonz]

Interesting to see so many instances of tools failing.
I agree with most of the comment but I would say a
better quality ratchet for all drive sizes is a "must", similarly for torque wrench.
And I have never had to use a cheater bar. But curled up in a restricted space under various cars I have certainly pounded many open end & closed end spanners (2 pound hammer of course) & broken only one - you won't believe it - on a bicycle pedal repair job.
Also I have never split open even the very low cost Taiwanese short sockets, sure I have worn them out but not split them.
Once I witnessed a comparison test on extreme loads on different brand sockets & the results amazed me, the better known brands all performed + or - 10% but "Koken" was 25% better, not a (Jap) brand you come across often.

[dr.walrus]

only this bloody forum could have so many posts about broken spanners... on car forums its a given, here we need to talk about everything in detail!

[x88x]

only this bloody forum could have so many posts about broken spanners

Hahaha, yeah... :whistler:

[Mark_Hardware]

I used to be a Craftsmen man myself... I still prefer their toolboxes. The locking mechanisms feel more solid as well as the ball-bearing drawers. However, it seems their quality control, and practices in general, have gone downhill.
I have started using Snap-On, and honestly I wouldn't look back. You can feel the quality. Plus if there's a problem, hey Steve, my Snap-On guy, comes to my work every week. That easy.
My most recent purchase was an 18V 1/2" drive cordless impact. Over 600ft-lbs of bolt break away force and 500-some odd ft-lbs of tightening. My friend used it to take the U-bolt nuts off a leaf spring on a semi-trailer. After taking off and putting back on said bolt as well as some rusty brake chamber bolts, the battery still read 3 out of 4 led's. Plenty of "holy sh!ts" abounded.
I assure you that is far far more than anything I will ever be doing with it lol.

[x88x]

Yeah, I hear lots of great things about Snap-On, but there is one little thing that keeps me from trying them at this point in my financial life....cost. Case in point; going off the online prices, the ratchet I broke goes for $22.99. The equivalent Snap-On? $145. I don't doubt that it's much higher quality (damn well better be, at that price), but it's not a cost-benefit analysis that comes up in my favor right now. If I were a professional mechanic and relied on my tools for my livelihood, yeah, that would probably come up different...but not now.

[Mark_Hardware]

Oh yeah the cost can be a bit.... ridiculous. You are paying for a name, pure and simple. The only good thing is, if you have a good rep and establish a good rapoor, you can get some killer deals.
But I make no excuse for their prices. Even if the tools will outlast my capacity to use them lol

[altec]

Hey, 88! I was at a farm today doing a oil change on a medium duty IH truck. Used a Craftsman breaker bar on the drain plug. It made me thing of you! :lick: