View Full Version : New PC for a client....
slaveofconvention
04-15-2011, 04:47 PM
So I got a call tonight from someone who wants me to build them a serious PC - they want fast fast fast lots of multitasking this that and the other and they have NO interest whatsoever in gaming.....
Bearing that in mind, I put together (and agreed) the following spec but I thought I'd ask for opinions before I actually go and spend more than many people make in a month on this box.
Case - TBC - I'm going to send him a list and have him choose one - he isn't after something blingy and bright - noise levels are a major thing as the PC lives in his bedroom and is on 24/7. Only real stipulation are size (which will allow most cases tbh) and NO door on the front.
PSU - Be Quiet Straight Power E8 680W Modular linky (http://www.ebuyer.com/product/247734)
Mobo - Asus P8P67 Pro R3 linky (http://www.ebuyer.com/product/260185)
CPU - i7 2600k linky (http://www.ebuyer.com/product/252535) which I plan to o/c to about 4ghz - I've heard 4.5 is a walk in the park with this CPU/Mobo combo, but I figure 4 will be enough and help maintain reliability.
Cooler - Coolermaster V8 linky (http://www.ebuyer.com/product/148238)
RAM - Corsair Vengeance 8GB (2x4gb) kit - 1600mhz 1.5v linky (http://www.ebuyer.com/product/248846)
Optical - Samsung Blu Ray DVDRW+- linky (http://www.ebuyer.com/product/240172)
Primary Drive - Crucial 128GB C300 SSD 6Gb/s linky (http://www.ebuyer.com/product/225805)
Secondary Drive - Samsung 2TB 5400 rpm F4 linky (http://www.ebuyer.com/product/237908) (5400 should be quieter than a 7200 and perfomance isn't important in this drive)
Internal Card Reader
VGA - Gigabyte GT430 OC 1GB DDR3 linky (http://www.ebuyer.com/product/241909) Chosen purely to get video to the monitor, with HDMI, and I'm hoping the big cooler will be quiet
Win 7 HP 64bit
Office Home & Student 2010
Hauppauge WINTV-HVR 1100 TV/Radio card linky (http://www.ebuyer.com/product/94512)
I may swap the Video card out for something passively cooled depending on the airflow in the case I end up buying - the CPU is locked 100% - he doesn't want to drop down to the 2500k i5. Everything else is up for negotiation but we HAVE agreed a final price (not set in stone) so any changes need to be more bang for same buck etc.....
The only problem I see at the moment is actually letting go of the PC once I've built it.... heh
Fuganater
04-15-2011, 06:38 PM
Looks like a sweet setup. I would put sound dampening in the case. And make sure the case has not window. Steel case will offer a quieter PC.
This setup is pretty close to the one I just bought.
slaveofconvention
04-15-2011, 06:44 PM
Actually just spent some time looking and I've pretty much decided to go with a CM 690 II Advanced case and a Silent Pro Gold Modular PSU - maybe even as little as 600w as a PSU calculator only calls for 320w total - those two combined with an SSD and a good quiet CPU cooler SHOULD make for one of those PC's where you do actually NEED the power LED to see if it's actually turned on or not....
As a bonus, we budgeted £110 for a case and £100 for a power supply, and those items come in at just under £70 each so an extra £70 to give back to the client (or maybe an extra 8GB RAM to total 16GB at almost zero extra cost) - 16GB RAM - THAT's multitasking overhead lol (it's also overkill I think) but it would allow me to tweak other parts a little...
Now to check out the quietest CPU cooler that'll fit in the 690 (might be a better option than the V8)
dr.walrus
04-15-2011, 07:01 PM
is the multitasking anything that could utilise the GPU?
slaveofconvention
04-15-2011, 07:11 PM
Not really, mainly things like over a dozen web browser windows open, email, word, excel, torrenting, Avi-DVD conversions, and speech recognition software all running at once.
He wasn't to be do all of that at once, and still have a responsive PC - I think this is about as close as he'll get to it. He's running a C2D atm with 4GB ram so this is a BIG step up...
Kayin
04-15-2011, 08:25 PM
Let me get something pulled up here, I might can beat the living daylights out of it.
I can get you into single G34 for less, honestly-and that's 12 cores and quad channel memory. Also, future upgrades are assured.
http://www.provantage.com/amd-os6128wkt8egowof~7AAMD2EV.htm
http://www.provantage.com/supermicro-h8sgl~7SUPM38V.htm
That setup is likely to be a lot more stable over the long run if you're not gaming, as well as the fact that G34 and C32 can take unregistered and non-ECC memory, not that ECC is expensive right now-1GB is less than $20 a stick here stateside.
This also has VGA onboard, so you don't have the extra expenditure of a VGA card, and is regular ATX, so you can put it in any case.
Given what you're looking at, i7 just seems pretty weak.
slaveofconvention
04-15-2011, 08:43 PM
The customer has specified that he must have HDMI output which is one problem (easily addressed with a video card, of course). I'm not sure how well that processor will stand up to the 2600k in many of the apps which he'll be using. Most of his apps seem to be ones which are single core reliant - with the exception of the DVD authoring - and I can't help but wonder if the 2600k @ 4ghz will fare better than the AMD @ 2ghz in the programs he'll mainly be running.
My other (lesser) concern is that I specifically chose this particular SSD because it has reviewed so well, mainly because of the 6Gb/s - this motherboard only supports 3Gb/s so there'd be a perfomance loss there too (although I know it isn't a huge one)
Feel free to educate me if I'm wrong though....
Kayin
04-15-2011, 09:13 PM
It really depends on what exact apps he's using, but in the encoding it'll take off on it.
When doing anything like encoding, HT isn't useless, but it's not that great either. You notice I replaced my i7 with a multisocket AMD setup for rendering and such...
At the end of the day, if he runs mostly single thread apps then yes, the i7 will do it mostly OK. The harder you hammer it, the more it will become apparent that it's a desktop trying to be a workstation. Even a six-core Xeon would be a better bet there, but the price of that is more than your build for proc alone.
dr.walrus
04-15-2011, 10:13 PM
Single thread applications are very much going to struggle with a clock speed that low... the truth about desktop multi-tasking is that you're mainly using one application at a time, and the rest just sit in the RAM. Very different demands to a server serving many concurrent sessions.
dr.walrus
04-15-2011, 10:25 PM
It really depends on what exact apps he's using, but in the encoding it'll take off on it.
When doing anything like encoding, HT isn't useless, but it's not that great either. You notice I replaced my i7 with a multisocket AMD setup for rendering and such...
At the end of the day, if he runs mostly single thread apps then yes, the i7 will do it mostly OK. The harder you hammer it, the more it will become apparent that it's a desktop trying to be a workstation. Even a six-core Xeon would be a better bet there, but the price of that is more than your build for proc alone.
A few things here:
For this sort of build, HT is actually going to be great, and the ideal scenario - rapidly switching heavy load scenarios between applications, applications that start and stop - for the sort of context switching we'll see here. I wrote a paper on this last year.
Also, I'd seriously argue that this does NOT represent a workstation. It's a souped up desktop.
I develop on my main box (8GB RAM, 6 core AMD @4Ghz), and you know what my favourite part is? EVERYTHING you normally wait for, you don't wait for. Run Photoshop and Illustrator and a virtual server or two, then build a project in Visual Studio and the anti-virus kicks in, while you're watching a show in HD on your third monitor? No problem!
I get the impression that's what the client wants, and I think that's a great spec. I'd argue that you could easily get away with a 1090T in it, but if the man has the money, then spend it!
Were I specifying a PC for this reason, I'd buy something nearly identical, but for one thing - once the client has 40GB of applications installed on the primary drive, he's going to start wanting a second one...
slaveofconvention
04-16-2011, 03:06 AM
We had that conversation - about considering a 256GB SSD but it's a real price hike, especially if we stick with the C300 drives - his current PC is a couple of years since last full reinstall and he's running a multi-drive setup now, and tells me that he is only using 70GB of his current C so he thinks 128 will work for him.
He's actually one of the "good" semi-technical customers - he DOES know what he's talking about, but he IS willing to listen to advice as opposed to that type of customer who thinks he knows everything already heh.
I don't know this myself but, is he likely to see any benefit by going from 8 to 16GB of ram? With the "savings" from the case and PSU I'm wondering if it's worth spending that £70 on a second ram kit (well £88 but I don't see him quibbling over £18) - or I may offer the option of a second 2TB drive so he's set with over 4tb from day one - he has told me that he has a stack of USB HD's lying around and I did mention the possibility of cracking a few of those open and putting the drives in the PC for improved performance if he wants.
I'm fairly sure he'd prefer to spend the £70 on an improvement than pocket it....
Fuganater
04-16-2011, 03:12 AM
I still vote to use the extra on case/fan silencing products.
slaveofconvention
04-16-2011, 03:15 AM
Actually, I can't believe that didn't occur to me lol - hmmm - back to ebuyer heh
Ironically, I got an email from ebuyer a little while ago asking "Where did you go, you used to spend nearly 1k a month with us and now nothing for a year - did we do something wrong?" lol - this build will probably reassure them somewhat :P
dr.walrus
04-16-2011, 07:45 AM
I don't know this myself but, is he likely to see any benefit by going from 8 to 16GB of ram?
I rarely go past 4GB of 8GB - once in 6 months have I been close to 8GB, certainly 16GB is absolutely insane. He might find a use for it at some point, but I doubt it!
If you want to spend an extra few quid, get a mobo with a 6Gb/s SATA controller and an OCZ Vertex 3 SSD...
slaveofconvention
04-16-2011, 07:48 AM
That Mobo is 6 Gb/s, as is the SSD (isn't it?)
dr.walrus
04-16-2011, 08:05 AM
Crucial 128GB Real SSD C300
Read: 355MB/s
Write: 140MB/s
OCZ Vertex 3 120GB
Read: 550MB/sec
Write: 500MB/sec
http://overclockers.co.uk/showproduct.php?prodid=HD-071-OC
The HDD upgrade is spot on budget and will really help give you that 'instantaneous' feel
slaveofconvention
04-16-2011, 08:10 AM
I see your point but I think I'll leave it as it is - spoke to him a little while ago about using the spare money to really push the quiet side of the PC - thinking extra fans so i can run more at lower speeds for equivalent CFM, and might step up to the V10 cooler - MIGHT lol - thats a pretty expensive cooler....
dr.walrus
04-16-2011, 08:19 AM
http://www.ebuyer.com/product/234187 ?
slaveofconvention
04-16-2011, 08:52 AM
Ok revised Hardware list - lots of minor tweaks but hopefully that's what will make the PC that little bit special....
Case: Coolermaster CM 690 II Advanced
PSU: Coolermaster 700W Silent Pro Gold
Motherboard: Asus P8P67 Pro
CPU: Intel 2600K OEM
Cooler: Be Quiet! Dark Rock Pro
RAM: 8GB (2x4GB) Corsair XMS3 DDR3 PC3-12800 (1600)
SSD: Crucial 128GB Real SSD C300
HDD: 2TB Samsung Ecogreen 32MB
ODD: Samsung SH-B123L BD-ROM DVD+-RW
VGA: Palit GT240 512MB GDDR3
Card Reader: Akasa Multi internal
TV Card: Hauppauge WinTV-HVR1300MCE
OS: Win7 HP x64 OEM
Office: Microsoft Office 2010 Home and Student
Total spend @ ebuyer inc delivery: £733.35
Total spend @ scan inc delivery: £489.06
Overall Total: £1222.41
I have a £1300 budget so there's still some room to play :D
Upgraded the PSU from 600 to 700 because I found a deal on the 700 - that TV card adds Digital radio AND costs slightly less - the corsair cooler DrWalrus listed does seem to be a really good cooler, but it's noisy from the reviews I've read when pushed and noise is a big thing for this customer so - the Be Quiet is apparently pretty awesome. Retail 2600k dropped in favour of the OEM - it's only a few pounds different but I'm going to use an aftermarket cooler anyway, so might as well save them.
My only concern was that the cooler may overhang the RAM slots, and the dominator sticks have pretty large heatsinks on them, so I swapped them out for XMS3 modules - they have all the same timings as the dominators and are much lower profile. Sandybridge overclocking leaves the FSB alone so it shouldn't have any real effect....
slaveofconvention
04-20-2011, 02:59 PM
And here come the goodies :D
First shipment arrived today - first of two but it turns out, with the cheap delivery option I took, and the two double public-holidays in the next 2 weeks, that may mean I don't see the second half of this order until NEXT wednesday....
http://www.thebestcasescenario.com/slaveofconvention/imagestore/order1.jpg
We have modkitty a.k.a. Hemi (who may go INTO the new case but won't be staying there heh) then from left to right, the Coolermaster Silent Pro Gold 700W PSU, the beQuiet Dark Rock Pro HSF, a Hauppauge 1300 Media Centre kit, a 2TB samsung hard disk, an akasa multi card reader, an OEM i7 2600k and a copy of Office home and student 2010.
The annoying thing is, that there is NOTHING in this order I can in ANY way connect to each other or make a start with - not until the mobo or case arrive from ebuyer some time next week.....
Damn my frugality with other people's money - if it'd been MY money, I'd have paid the extra lol
dr.walrus
04-20-2011, 05:34 PM
I'm not sure that cat is compatible with the motherboard
slaveofconvention
04-20-2011, 05:52 PM
How dare you - thats Modkitty!!!! She shows great interest in any photoshoot I do - and has proven herself, time and time again, to be utterly compatible with EVERYTHING :D
Ok she's called Hemi but details details lol
diluzio91
04-21-2011, 11:36 AM
i was under the impression that all kettehs were PCI compatable, if not, they can also be interfaced through usb or an open PS2 port. if its a really old machine they just use the mouseport
slaveofconvention
04-27-2011, 08:38 PM
The beast lives....
Today I came home and the rest of the order had arrived. Now doesn't THIS pile of toys look SO much more impressive....
http://www.thebestcasescenario.com/slaveofconvention/projects/2600k/00.jpg
But we can't just leave it sitting in boxes - here goes my night.....
And a few hours later we have this little box of tricks...
http://www.thebestcasescenario.com/slaveofconvention/projects/2600k/01.jpg
http://www.thebestcasescenario.com/slaveofconvention/projects/2600k/02.jpg
Nice and tidy inside too - only cable I couldn't do anything about was the USB3 cable....
http://www.thebestcasescenario.com/slaveofconvention/projects/2600k/03.jpg
That Cooler is HUGE - this is a pretty big case and you can see how little clearance there is....
http://www.thebestcasescenario.com/slaveofconvention/projects/2600k/04.jpg
Then the moment of truth - press that power button and - WHAT THE HELL IS THIS?????
http://www.thebestcasescenario.com/slaveofconvention/projects/2600k/05.jpg
My first run in with one of those new fancy EFI system BIOS's - oooh pretty - but it's really odd using a mouse to change Bios settings!!!
Windows installed, drivers updated - one nice system running at 3.4Ghz. Wonder what happens if I press this "Auto-tune" button....
http://www.thebestcasescenario.com/slaveofconvention/projects/2600k/06.jpg
An extra 1Ghz - what????? Heh - this CPU just NEEDS to be messed with. 4.427Ghz without manually changing a thing....
I am impressed :D
slaveofconvention
04-27-2011, 08:42 PM
After 20 mins or so of folding so all cores maxxed out, CPU is sitting at 62c in a pretty damned warm room - when the TIM settles properly - that's going to be nice :D
dr.walrus
04-28-2011, 08:04 AM
Oh, that's a present for me?
Blibbax
04-28-2011, 03:34 PM
Nice build. I'd worry about that cooler cracking the motherboard :D
What noise dampening stuff /fan controllers did you go for in the end, if any?
slaveofconvention
04-28-2011, 03:36 PM
Actually, none. The case is wide open and with the silent PSU and the REALLY silent CPU cooler (I mean this thing brings new meaning to the word quiet), along with the fact that the HDD only gets accessed for data storage while the SSD which IS silent does all the work - there really isn't any need for additional silencing :)
lynn's engraving
05-01-2011, 04:44 PM
good gravy, wavy! can this thing clean toilets, too? am i right in saying that this thing is a monster? :)
slaveofconvention
05-02-2011, 05:19 AM
With the exception of the graphics, yeah it's a monster. The client doesn't game on his PC so there was no point putting in a mega video card - but pretty much everything else is close to or top of the line.
It's a bit of a monster heh - it's most of a monster.....
Fuganater
05-02-2011, 05:23 AM
I have the same BIOS on my ASUS mobo. (Sabertooth P67) I like it alot. I also like the utility it has for windows. Makes managing your hardware so much easier.
slaveofconvention
05-02-2011, 05:27 AM
As I said, it's my first experience with this new type of mobo - the majority of the PC's I build for clients are "How cheaply can you build me something to replace xxxxxx that'll give me a good upgrade" so they usually end up with low-mid range components which will still kick 7 shades of nasty stuff out of the celeron 1.7 it's replacing etc. This guy came to me with a good budget and an open mind so I was able to strech my legs a little.
Course it's NOT going to be as much fun handing this one over as it's easily the most powerful PC in my house right now. My main rig, a Q6700 will trounce it in the graphics department, but that's about it....
lynn's engraving
05-02-2011, 06:56 AM
out of curiosity, would having a mega-graphics card help in any other way other than for gaming?
Fuganater
05-02-2011, 07:15 AM
It helps with graphic intensive programs like graphic design programs.
lynn's engraving
05-02-2011, 08:09 AM
that certainly makes sense. it struck me as funny that that guy had about the best of everything, yet didn't want a kickass graphics card. kind of like he wanted everything *but* the kitchen sink, lol. at least he knew what he wanted. were it me, a top shelf graphics card would have been an easy sell, thinking that i might as well have that, too, since i've got everything else. :)
slaveofconvention
05-02-2011, 08:15 AM
He's a big multitasker - often with the best part of 2 dozen apps open at once, but none of them are much more graphically intensive than an office application. He does like to do avi-dvd conversions in the background too etc but I've explained to him that with the raw power of the 2600k at almost 4.3 Ghz it'll take such a short amount of time to do that conversion that it probably won't be in the background for long lol
lynn's engraving
05-02-2011, 09:08 AM
and i thought my wife was bad having four apps open at once, lol. i wish she'd get out of that habit, though. having quickbooks and coreldraw open at the same time risks interfering with my bejeweled blitz, damnit!
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