Scratchbuilding C&Cs Mammoth Tank

[Munty]

Ok, after a long time of not posting this here I decided what the hell. I don't have much to do today so I'm going to spend it sharing my crazy tank building with you :D

This for those who didn't catch it in conversation elsewhere, is my brilliant idea to build a Mk.1 mammoth tank from the Command and Conquer series. And of course have it be radio controlled... And have a working turret... With firing guns...

So yeah, I've been at it for a touch over 2 months now but I'm very easily distracted and incredibly poor so it rarely makes leaps and bounds progress-wise. That said, I thought I'd been at it for longer than 2 months already so given that I have a child to look after and am perpetually broke (and actually I didn't really get started till April so that's less than 2 months ;)) So yeah that's not bad :D

Anyway I won't share the whole build right now as it already consists of nearly 200 images and a great deal of pondering. I'm going to take some exerts from my existing worklog elsewhere and post that here so it'll be a bit impersonal for now while I catch up you good folks but I promise it's not personal ;)

So first thing sfirst I had to figure out the scale of this tank as nowhere is it actually mentioned how big it is. I used in game screenshots and original promotional images to gauge it but by far the most useful shot was this one with a soldier in the foreground.
http://media.moddb.com/images/groups/1/1/897/432px-MammothBlueprint.jpg

With that and a lot of other comparisons such as in-game footage of it alongside the medium tank (which is an Abrams) I came out with some final figures and then stole a model from Google's 3D warehouse for this first comparison shot.
http://i1198.photobucket.com/albums/aa460/Tim_Munt/Mammoth%20Build/Mammoth.jpg

With the scale down I got my hands on the 3D model of the tank from it's appearance in C&C : Renegade in 2-dimensional format. I printed off a few copies for small scale prototyping and found I could pretty much make it angle for angle then got another set of the plans blown up about 370% to get myself a set of full size templates for my 1:16 scale build (typical RC tank scale of course!)

Got my materials from Trylon (UK company) which was great and delivered lightening fast at a bargain price and then I set to work!
http://i1198.photobucket.com/albums/aa460/Tim_Munt/Mammoth%20Build/Mammoth5.jpg

Honestly the hardest bit was probably knowing where to start but the central hull seemed the obvious choice so I started from the bottom and worked my way up, immediately hitting a snag as I realised the material I had was about 1" too short for the bottom piece! It was easily fixed anyway and things built up from there.
http://i1198.photobucket.com/albums/aa460/Tim_Munt/Mammoth%20Build/Mammoth8.jpg

Soon had the sides cut;
http://i1198.photobucket.com/albums/aa460/Tim_Munt/Mammoth%20Build/Mammoth11.jpg

And started building...
http://i1198.photobucket.com/albums/aa460/Tim_Munt/Mammoth%20Build/Mammoth14.jpg

The front panel turned out to be too narrow as I'd accidentally made the entire hull 4mm too wide by not applying a chamfer to the edges of the bottom piece and just building onto eitehr side. You'll see the result shortly!
http://i1198.photobucket.com/albums/aa460/Tim_Munt/Mammoth%20Build/Mammoth23.jpg

Here it is with both sides finished and the hull top cut but this is also 4mm too narrow and is currently topping off my scrap pile (though it's a good piece so will be used!)
http://i1198.photobucket.com/albums/aa460/Tim_Munt/Mammoth%20Build/Mammoth40.jpg

I don't have an image of the problem caused by the narrow pieces I used but it was basically pulling the right side of the hull inwards at the top which looked horrible and was somewhat devastating for me! Luckily it was only that front piece causing it and breaking the seal fixed the problem. This is how far out my measurements were due to that silly mistake of adding 4mm!
http://i1198.photobucket.com/albums/aa460/Tim_Munt/Mammoth%20Build/Mammoth44.jpg

Soon fixed that and moved onto the back which was horrible with some real nasty angles and not much to fix to! It has a large grill here which is kind of what the paper template represents here.
http://i1198.photobucket.com/albums/aa460/Tim_Munt/Mammoth%20Build/Mammoth52.jpg

It took a long time for that grill to arrive and it cost half as much as all the rest of the materials used to date! (9 big sheets of plasticard and one small grill!) It did the job nicely though and looks great. There'll be a finer grill on the inside of this at a later date. Topping the running right now is a kitchen sieve I um... liberated from it's handle...
http://i1198.photobucket.com/albums/aa460/Tim_Munt/Mammoth%20Build/Mammoth130.jpg

In between those last 2 images I actually did loads, built up some track housings, took a hardware delivery AND made up some track but that's enough for now. You get the hull today and then if people are interested I'll show you the rest later :D

[Twigsoffury]

I'm interested.

[slaveofconvention]

C&C features here from time to time in conversation so yeah, I have no doubt you'll get yourself some attention with this.

Course we WILL end up asking if you're going to put a PC in it, but thats just us :P

[msmrx57]

More, more, more, more, more, more, more, more!!!!!!! PLEEEEEEEAAAAAAASSSSSSE!!!!! :D

[Munty]

Haha thanks guys, took your time though lol I'll update with the track and side armour shortly but not right now I'm afraid, just this moment finished work on the turret though which is pretty cool as far as landmarks go! I only have one more piece to cut from the styrene and then it's onto hardware and detailing so it's getting exciting now!

And you know I really did consider whether to put a computer in it or whether to make it RC but for now the latter has won out! To be honest though the turret alone could hold a pretty decent system (or at least a complete laptop :p)

Just so you can see what I mean, here's a pic of my 1:16 tiger tank next to the turret alone of the 1:16 mammoth :p The ruler indicates how long the barrels will be! Of course I'm a lot further along than that now but everyone likes comparison shots don't they?!
http://i1198.photobucket.com/albums/aa460/Tim_Munt/Mammoth%20Build/Mammoth66.jpg

[msmrx57]

I'd have commented sooner, but worked Sat. after a full week do today is my "get caught up on interwebz" day.

As far as the PC/RC debate goes - once you've got it done the second one is easier. :D

[Munty]

Ok I know I said it wouldn't be tonight but I just posted an update on the other site for the turret so I guess I can spare ten minutes to stick a few old pics on here :D

Next up after the hull was the 4 track guards which are thankfully all the same and only consist of 7 pieces each. That's considerably less than the 30-something of the hull bottom alone!

It took me a long time to get all four of these done as it was really quite boring but here for you guys they're all done in one instalment! Enjoy :D

Obviously when I say all 4 corners are the same, I mean the pieces are the same, not the configurations! Here's a front view showing the angled top plate of these sections which will of course be reversed on each side of the tank.
http://i1198.photobucket.com/albums/aa460/Tim_Munt/Mammoth%20Build/Mammoth53.jpg

And here are all seven pieces from one of the tracks just waiting to have the chamfers filed into the corners before assembly.
http://i1198.photobucket.com/albums/aa460/Tim_Munt/Mammoth%20Build/Mammoth55.jpg

Due to the strange angles at the top of these assemblies I decided to start from one side and fitted the large front and rear pieces first.
http://i1198.photobucket.com/albums/aa460/Tim_Munt/Mammoth%20Build/Mammoth56.jpg

Next the other side went on...
http://i1198.photobucket.com/albums/aa460/Tim_Munt/Mammoth%20Build/Mammoth57.jpg

And then the top!
http://i1198.photobucket.com/albums/aa460/Tim_Munt/Mammoth%20Build/Mammoth58.jpg

The last two small pieces are different on every single corner of the tank for some reason but it's not overly noticeable so it's ok. Not sure how I managed it but with all the angles at play it doesn't really take much to throw these things off!
http://i1198.photobucket.com/albums/aa460/Tim_Munt/Mammoth%20Build/Mammoth59.jpg
http://i1198.photobucket.com/albums/aa460/Tim_Munt/Mammoth%20Build/Mammoth60.jpg

I took a moment to mock up the tracks here but this is only a standard Tiger one I think (waaaaay too small for my big mammoth!)
http://i1198.photobucket.com/albums/aa460/Tim_Munt/Mammoth%20Build/Mammoth61.jpg

Rinse and repeat for the opposite track... Here's the construction line as I finished the last two together!
http://i1198.photobucket.com/albums/aa460/Tim_Munt/Mammoth%20Build/Mammoth73.jpg
http://i1198.photobucket.com/albums/aa460/Tim_Munt/Mammoth%20Build/Mammoth74.jpg

Here's how she looked with all four tracks in place but they're only mocked up here. Notice how this is back before I recieved the rear grill and I haven't quite added the last smallest pieces of the last two tracks. This was due to their tendency to require odd shapes which took a lot of time! I think I ended up putting off making them for quite some time :p
http://i1198.photobucket.com/albums/aa460/Tim_Munt/Mammoth%20Build/Mammoth75.jpg
http://i1198.photobucket.com/albums/aa460/Tim_Munt/Mammoth%20Build/Mammoth76.jpg

And here it is again with the Tiger tank for comparison. Remember it's the same scale!
http://i1198.photobucket.com/albums/aa460/Tim_Munt/Mammoth%20Build/Mammoth77.jpg

Next come the tracks and then the turret, though I may post the other way round as the turret's finished now but only one of the four tracks has been done ;)

I probably said this in my first post but I need some wire to finish the rest. It's 19SWG apparently (Standard Wire Gauge) so if anyone has a few dozen meters of it lying around somewhere just pm me for a mailing address :D

I'll share some more tomorrow after a good sleep... Enjoy :D

[Blibbax]

Have you thought about having it hold an RC tank... and a computer :devious:

Would be a pretty pointless creation, given the need for trailing power cables, VGA cables etc., but epic nonetheless :D

[Munty]

Well I'll have plenty of space to fit more in it than just the RC gear. Maybe I could fit it with some wireless stuff... Or use it as mobile media storage and have a retractable USB cable somewhere lol Never be without those important documents (and a deadly entourage) again!

[Munty]

While I'm here I figure I may as well post up the turret build... Sorry for the double post (if noone ninjas me while I write this up!)

Anyway, I cut the turret base a long time ago during DVD night, before I'd even got the last two tracks built. You've already seen that piece a few posts back and I didn't take any more pictures until I built up the back of the first row of plating on it which is shown here...
http://i1198.photobucket.com/albums/aa460/Tim_Munt/Mammoth%20Build/Mammoth144.jpg

It then took a few days to do anything else but soon enough the front pieces followed and this shot shows the smaller topmost piece as well (it's on a box full of the track piees that I'll use for ONE of the four tracks later!)
http://i1198.photobucket.com/albums/aa460/Tim_Munt/Mammoth%20Build/Mammoth165.jpg

I'm skipping lots of pics and info here but this is with a start made on the second row. I actually had trouble with the long side pieces in the first row as following the templates left them completely the wrong shape to be useable. I took a few days off then came back and cut some new ones based off the turret I already had built. Here they are fitted along with 3 pieces at the nose of the assebly and a futher three pieces on the other sides.
http://i1198.photobucket.com/albums/aa460/Tim_Munt/Mammoth%20Build/Mammoth172.jpg

I was originally going to leave the top piece off until I had the cannons and turret hardware fitted but it was really hard getting all the angles right so I glued it down at this point. I'll cut a hatch in the bottom piece of the assembly to assemble the hardware later...
http://i1198.photobucket.com/albums/aa460/Tim_Munt/Mammoth%20Build/Mammoth174.jpg

Here you can see that the angles of the front three pieces are off so I removed them after taking this shot. I guess this is down to the front pieces being angled too far forward (something I've only realised as I sit writing this but would explain why the side pieces didn't fit and later why these angles were off!)
http://i1198.photobucket.com/albums/aa460/Tim_Munt/Mammoth%20Build/Mammoth175.jpg

Two easy bits go in at the back next, the plans having now been discarded in favour of custom build pieces based on paper templates and lots of filing!
http://i1198.photobucket.com/albums/aa460/Tim_Munt/Mammoth%20Build/Mammoth177.jpg

Then the front gets rebuilt. I'm able to reuse the central piece I removed earlier but the two side ones have horribly incorrect angles and so are discarded and replaced...
http://i1198.photobucket.com/albums/aa460/Tim_Munt/Mammoth%20Build/Mammoth179.jpg

Two more pieces at the front gave me some trouble as they required a slight flex to account for the fact that the in-game model actually uses 2 polys here and I'm choosing to make them from one single flat piece. After all I don't want to build in unnecessary angles just because they were necessary to create the original 3D model...
http://i1198.photobucket.com/albums/aa460/Tim_Munt/Mammoth%20Build/Mammoth180.jpg

Now the last pieces go in at the front...
http://i1198.photobucket.com/albums/aa460/Tim_Munt/Mammoth%20Build/Mammoth181.jpg

And the back... These were long narrow diamond shaped pieces which are also replacing 2 polys from the in-game model so it took some ingenuity to get them fitted correctly. Especially as they were the last pieces to go on!
http://i1198.photobucket.com/albums/aa460/Tim_Munt/Mammoth%20Build/Mammoth182.jpg

And voila the turret is done! Only need to make the Tusk missile pods now and then I'm finished with the plasticard except for bracing. I'm happy to announce I have 2 sheets of the stuff still untouched (I'll save that for the Mk.3 Mammoth ;))
http://i1198.photobucket.com/albums/aa460/Tim_Munt/Mammoth%20Build/Mammoth183.jpg
http://i1198.photobucket.com/albums/aa460/Tim_Munt/Mammoth%20Build/Mammoth184.jpg

I decided to have a test fit of the turret on the hull to finish my day and did so with the employment of a co-operative toothpick! Here she is in most of her current glory (she has a full hulltop now so no more gaps!)
http://i1198.photobucket.com/albums/aa460/Tim_Munt/Mammoth%20Build/Mammoth185.jpg
http://i1198.photobucket.com/albums/aa460/Tim_Munt/Mammoth%20Build/Mammoth186.jpg
http://i1198.photobucket.com/albums/aa460/Tim_Munt/Mammoth%20Build/Mammoth187.jpg

I'll post up work on the tracks and drivetrain next but I'm still working on that so you're almost up to speed with progress so far. I'm still desperately seeking 19SWG wire so I can finish all 4 tracks (it's boring but quite easy!) so please keep your eyes peeled for me next time you're out shopping!

Going to start on the interior detail now as I'm building an engine room in the back which will be as visible as possible when finished! I don't have all my materials yet though so don't expect updates on it any time soon.

That's all for now folks! Come back again soon for more ;)

[Beta-brain]

Yeah, great stuff, what are you sticking the parts together with is there a special glue like for plexi (you can also melt bits of plexi in acetone and use as glue) or can you use superglue etc, I've used plasticard in builds but never had to stick pieces of it together as it's usually bolted or screwed on to something.

Of course, once you've played war games with it and blown it to bits THEN you can put a PC in it's smouldering remains "scrapyard chic" ;)

Plenty of 19SWG on the Bay of pigs. (http://shop.ebay.co.uk/i.html?_from=R40&_trksid=p4712.m570.l1313&_nkw=19SWG+wire&_sacat=See-All-Categories)

[Munty]

Thanks BB, I've just been using ordinary poly cement like you would do for an airfix kit or similar! My material is 3mm thick and I've chamfered all the corners so most joins get a good 4-5mm seal which is proving pretty much rock solid so far. The crazy shape of the main hull and all those extra corners make it VERY tough but it'll be receiving further bracing before the hardware goes in as will the tracks and turret too.

That ebay link is actually really good as it's turned up piano wire (which none of my previous searches have!) The florists wire seemed like a good bet at first because it's just so cheap but I'm told it's plactic coated and not rigid enough for what I need. Each track link is made from two original pieces and has 5 points of contact for the pins along their 75mm width so I need to get some good replacement pins to reintroduce as much strength as possible.

Even now they're pretty strong mind you so with some new pins they should be good to go! That's an update for another day though... The trick seems to be not so much finding a good material but getting hold of 21meters of it cheaply! I think you may have solved that problem though as I'm now looking at what seems to be almost 5 meters of suitable stuff for less than £2.50 delivered... Tht means I could do the whole lot with five lots of these items, at a grand total of £12!

Beta Brain I love you :D I'm going to email this guy and see if he'll send me a few inches of 19 and 18 SWG as I really want to be certain of the diameter before I go ahead and buy the whole lot... Seems like this could be good though, cross your fingers for me!

[Beta-brain]

This might help and assuming the seller has the SWG sizes correct. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Standard_wire_gauge)

[Munty]

Cheers, I checked these a few days ago but the difficulty is I have no way to accurately measure the pins I currently have (I'm using tracks donated from several King Tigers!) I know they're just a touch over 1mm thanks to eyeballing it right beside a ruler but that's not enough for me to close a deal with!

A guy on the RC tank website was kind enough to measure a Heng Long (RC manufacturer) pin for me and said it was 19 but I really want to be sure as every penny I spend on this build is money I don't have to spare...

[Munty]

Ok so I was going to just post up a quick request for a service I needed (a turner, read on if you are one :p) but I realise I never posted up the track build here so prepare for that as well!

First off here's a massive box of bits I recieved a while back from Hawaii! It included everything I nneded to make and drive the tracks as well as most of the other hardware required to make it RC.
http://i1198.photobucket.com/albums/aa460/Tim_Munt/Mammoth%20Build/Mammoth80.jpg
http://i1198.photobucket.com/albums/aa460/Tim_Munt/Mammoth%20Build/Mammoth79.jpg
http://i1198.photobucket.com/albums/aa460/Tim_Munt/Mammoth%20Build/Mammoth84.jpg
http://i1198.photobucket.com/albums/aa460/Tim_Munt/Mammoth%20Build/Mammoth81.jpg

A quick comparison of normal Tiger tracks and the King Tiger tracks I got in this delivery reveals quite a difference!
http://i1198.photobucket.com/albums/aa460/Tim_Munt/Mammoth%20Build/Mammoth86.jpg

But they still aren't nearly big enough to fit the mammoth as seen here...
http://i1198.photobucket.com/albums/aa460/Tim_Munt/Mammoth%20Build/Mammoth87.jpg

I believe the King Tiger tracks were about 60mm wide and I decided I wanted a 75mm width. That left me with a lot of pondering as to how to create a track big enough and also how to drive it... I went through many iterations and prototypes. Below is my first attempt at a simple lengthening using just one sprocket. It didn't look up to the job at all and I realised very quickly it would need more than just the single sprocket to drive it.
http://i1198.photobucket.com/albums/aa460/Tim_Munt/Mammoth%20Build/Mammoth89.jpg

I played around with extending the sprocket and came up with this second prototype...
http://i1198.photobucket.com/albums/aa460/Tim_Munt/Mammoth%20Build/Mammoth92.jpg
http://i1198.photobucket.com/albums/aa460/Tim_Munt/Mammoth%20Build/Mammoth93.jpg

But it would have needed a lot of reinforcing to look right due to the skinny shaft so I kept thinking and then came up with prototype 3!
http://i1198.photobucket.com/albums/aa460/Tim_Munt/Mammoth%20Build/Mammoth95.jpg

It stuck and I decided to build it using sprockets like this. It gave me a track width of about 73mm so it's pretty much bang on what I wanted and I set about extending some links!
http://i1198.photobucket.com/albums/aa460/Tim_Munt/Mammoth%20Build/Mammoth98.jpg
http://i1198.photobucket.com/albums/aa460/Tim_Munt/Mammoth%20Build/Mammoth99.jpg
http://i1198.photobucket.com/albums/aa460/Tim_Munt/Mammoth%20Build/Mammoth108.jpg

After creating that short length I decided to ramp it up and made enough to wrap the whole sprocket. Next job was to create a small system with two sprockets that had some functionality. HEre they both are.
http://i1198.photobucket.com/albums/aa460/Tim_Munt/Mammoth%20Build/Mammoth112.jpg
http://i1198.photobucket.com/albums/aa460/Tim_Munt/Mammoth%20Build/Mammoth117.jpg

Soon enough I got a good system up and running and finished my first track of 74 links! It's a big step up from the King Tiger and a gigantic leap from the baby Tiger!
http://i1198.photobucket.com/albums/aa460/Tim_Munt/Mammoth%20Build/Mammoth122.jpg
http://i1198.photobucket.com/albums/aa460/Tim_Munt/Mammoth%20Build/Mammoth119.jpg

Next job was to figure out how to drive the thing... I had to use 2 sprockets on the bottom but they weren't for drive and would need to be sprung. Between them will be four bogey wheels, also sprung, and I need 2 more points of contact at the front and rear to give the track the right shape so it follows the correct lines. This was an early idea.
http://i1198.photobucket.com/albums/aa460/Tim_Munt/Mammoth%20Build/Mammoth124.jpg

It's remained pretty much unchanged but I decided that drive sprocket at the top needed more contact with the track so it'll be moved to a corner rather than at the top.

A few days ago I finally took delivery of some piano wire which has since been used to replace the original track pins I used on this track. Their introduction has really strengthened the whole thing and now it's got no overhang I can test fit it inside the armour too!
http://i1198.photobucket.com/albums/aa460/Tim_Munt/Mammoth%20Build/Mammoth214.jpg
http://i1198.photobucket.com/albums/aa460/Tim_Munt/Mammoth%20Build/Mammoth215.jpg
http://i1198.photobucket.com/albums/aa460/Tim_Munt/Mammoth%20Build/Mammoth212.jpg
http://i1198.photobucket.com/albums/aa460/Tim_Munt/Mammoth%20Build/Mammoth213.jpg

I'm now ready to fit and test drive this track, as there's no point making the other 3 till I know it'll work as desired! For that I need to fit the gearbox, attach the drive sprocket, build and fit the 2 roller assemblie to keep tension at the front and rear then finally position the 2 sprung sprockets on the bottom and the 4 bogeys wheel alongside them.

So easy really!

Trouble is, I can't do any of that yet because I need a custom made driveshaft to fit my gearboxes... Becasue of the double sprockets I'm using and the size and weight of track the entire system is very unique. I need to replace the current final-drive shaft on my stock gearboxes with a much longer one which will pass all the way through the drive sprocket and then anchor into the far side of the track armour to help with the weight issue.

So to continue I need four of these making for me and I'd like to carry on as soon as possible so if anyone can help please let me know! Here are some images of the original shaft along with the one I need to replace it with. The second one shown was my original plan prior to deciding on an anchor in the outer armour wall.
http://i1198.photobucket.com/albums/aa460/Tim_Munt/Mammoth%20Build/Mammothfinaldrive.jpg
http://i1198.photobucket.com/albums/aa460/Tim_Munt/Mammoth%20Build/Mammothfinaldrive2.jpg

Please let me know if you or anyone you know can make these for me, it's a very simple job if you have the tools! It's basically an 8mm wide shaft that's 120mm from end to end. The last 25mm needs to be narrower (5 or 6mm didn't measure it!) and ideally wants splines to hold the gear onto it like the original. Really simple! Please help if you can!!!

[Twigsoffury]

man you think what with the hugeness of that tank track that motorcycle hubs would work great.

http://i01.i.aliimg.com/photo/v0/272055067/motorcycle_hub.jpg