A Mod or a Model - where do you draw the line?

[slaveofconvention]

Here's one of those random things that pops into my head and then returns over and over.... Trust me, if I posted every random thought, you guys would probably end up sending the men in white coats to my door heh

When does a mod stop being a mod and become a model. There are hundreds of casemods out there which are, undeniably, case mods - they are simply cases which have been modified for performance or appearance so yeah, definitely a "mod".

On the other hand there are scratch builds which are blatently computer cases first, and a mod second - I point you to the server case being planned as we speak by fuganater for example, or the Home Server build, Holocron which Darthbeavis recently completed. Again, I don't think there's any denying those are CASE mods.

Finally, I call your attention to Bods Tron lightcycle. Now don't get me wrong, Brian did an AMAZING job - his attention to detail and the end result are brilliant and all kudos to the man for a truly original piece of art.... and I back those comments up with my vote in the CM contest so I am in no way trying to berate or malign the project....

BUT

Is it really a casemod, or is it a kick-ass model which just happens to have a PC built into it. The Doom3 case which attracted (and still attracts) so much attention - the transformation was SO complete, there's almost nothing left of the original case - definitely not externally, so again, is it really a CASEmod, or again, an awesome model which just happens to have a PC in it? The Doom3 case is obviously a lot less debatable, as it DOES have a PC case in it as it's basis, but there is almost nothing stock in the Lightcycle for example.

What do you guys think - are builders straying too far from the essence of the PC to still truly be a CASEmod - or is it the natural course of things to constantly push the envelope and get gradually further and further from the "norm".....

[Fuganater]

Personally I think "scratch builds" and "casemods" are 2 different things.

Scratch builds are just that. You start with pretty much nothing and end up with some type of computer case.

Case mod is just that as well. You take any computer case. Strip it, cut it, tear it apart. But the end product is a mod around a prebuilt chassis.

To me, "scratch builds" and "models" are the same thing. Just my opinion.

[slaveofconvention]

Oh there's definitely a difference between a mod and a scratch build - there's no argument there - I think my point was "Where's the line between a scratch build PC case, and a Scratch build model which CAN hold a computer" lol - I know - confusing and stuff - I never said these random thoughts that pop into my head are well thought out heh

[Okele]

Here is where the difference come in.


Simple google searches based on these search terms yield two very different results:

Case Mod (http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&biw=1920&bih=994&gbv=2&tbm=isch&sa=1&q=case+mod&btnG=Search&aq=f&aqi=g10&aql=&oq=)

Scratch Build (http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&biw=1920&bih=994&gbv=2&tbm=isch&sa=1&q=scratch+build&btnG=Search&aq=f&aqi=g10&aql=&oq=)

I'm just guessing but the whole idea of classifying both forms as Case mods, is for simplistic searching. In my opinion, they are two completely different realms, but in terms of marketing a competition like CM's yearly contest, it's much easier to classify it all as case mods as opposed to case mods/scratch builds.

[Cale_Hagan]

i think its scratch build if its designed to have a computer in it as the end result. i believe its a model, if its already built, and is an after thought. i think thats what you mean. by the way, in the time it took you to read this, the men in white have arrived at your door SOC. have a nice day! :twisted:

[NightrainSrt4]

If they both serve the same purpose I don't see why it should matter whether you made the chassis or some big company did. It's just putting labels on things for the sake of having a label.

[dr.walrus]

I think you guy's are missing the OP's point a bit. Let's imagine you built a 12' tall statue of michael jackson as a computer case - I'd find myself describing it as 'a 12' tall statue of michael jeckson with a computer inside it', not a 'machel jackson computer case.

It's an interesting perspective and not one I've thought of before.

[slaveofconvention]

Yeah, I'm not talking about the difference between a case mod and a scratch build, I'm talking about the difference between a custom case (modded stock or scratch build), and something which is mainly a model which happens to have a PC inside it.

I guess the line COULD be drawn, inspired partially by dr.walrus's comment, based on if the computer is the "point" or the case/model is the priority. I was planning (and may still build but it's doubtful) a Doctor Who K-9 case for my son - and if I'm honest it was basically going to be me building a full size replica of K-9 which happened to have a PC in it - it would have been more about the model...

Having said that, I'd still love to do it just for the hell of it - I know if I don't, someone, someday will and I'll think "Crap that was MY idea" lol

[msmrx57]

Yeah, I'm not talking about the difference between a case mod and a scratch build, I'm talking about the difference between a custom case (modded stock or scratch build), and something which is mainly a model which happens to have a PC inside it.

I guess the line COULD be drawn, inspired partially by dr.walrus's comment, based on if the computer is the "point" or the case/model is the priority.

I think that pretty much nails it.

And if this is just one of many random thoughts like this running through your head maybe we should send the gentlemen in white coats as a matter of public safety. :whistler:

[Munty]

Personally I'd draw the line based on the materials employed and how they've been used. As mentioned by other people already, I think it's a case mod if you start off with a case. After all, if you don't start with a case you can't very well mod it can you?!

If you build the case from nothing and DON'T use any computer components except the hardware necessary for it to work then it's a scratchbuild. My laptop for example is a scratchbuild as it only uses the hardware from the donor and not a single case component. The fact that the case is stored untouched in a box in my kitchen means that this can't possibly be a casemod...

As far as models and scratchbuilds goes (I know this is an evolution of the thread and not the original question) this is harder to define. A model CAN be scratchbuilt but that doesn't stop it being a model... In a sense my laptop is more a model (well diorama really) than it is a laptop. But it's entire purpose is to be both of these things, a diorama AND a laptop. So what is it? Casemod, no. Scratchbuild, yes. Model, debatably yes.

The same is true for dozens if not hundreds of other projects both by the guys here at TBCS and elsewhere on the interweb. I think the line between casemod and scratchbuild is pretty final though. I put it down to whether you start off with a case or not. Simple ;)

[dr.walrus]

I think the line between casemod and scratchbuild is pretty final though. I put it down to whether you start off with a case or not. Simple ;)

http://www.stopgeek.com/hey-checkout-my-beaver-a-beaver-computer-pc-case.html

...?

[TheGreatSatan]

I love doing mods and models :D

[slaveofconvention]

http://www.stopgeek.com/hey-checkout-my-beaver-a-beaver-computer-pc-case.html

...?

That is so so SOOOO wrong heh


I love doing mods and models :D

I'm SO happy to be an Editor and not a mod....

[blueonblack]

"Where's the line between a scratch build PC case, and a Scratch build model which CAN hold a computer"

To me the line is clear: intent. If it was built as a computer case (meaning it was built to house a computer) then it's just that: a scratch-built case. Size and form are secondary to purpose.

If you build a 12-foot Michael Jackson statue (thanks for that image, Dr. W), it's a model albeit a big one. If you build it with mounting for internal PC components and a slot for an optical drive, it's a case.

[Munty]

Yah that's a beaver, not a case mod lol But as BoB says, it kind of comes down to whether you build a model with intent on having a computer in it or not. As someone else mentioned previously, putting a computer in an already build model/construction/item whatever, is a bit of a grey area. It's not a casemod as you didn't start with a case. It's also not a scratchbuild as you didn't start with nothing. But at the end of the day it IS a computer so what do we call these?

Whatever we call them, the beaver fits in that category as clearly it's been specifically and intentionally converted to house a PC BUT it's neither a casemod OR a scratchbuild. So what is it?

Hmm... Not really sure what I'd call it... Pretty funky but how do you classify these 'none of the above' projects?

I've just had a great idea. How about mounting pc inside the significant other? Then we get quality time AND I can play my games :D

[RogueOpportunist]

I touched on this in another thread but how do we even know what a mod is? I mean I've seen TONS of people put computers into their cars but never once have I seen anyone refer to their car as a 25,000$ computer case? So how does it work one way but not the other? Logic dictates that any modification could easily be classified a mod but when does something stop being a "mod" and become a plain old modification... and for that matter when is something not a mod at all?

I thought about this and tried to come up with some easy criteria for what could be considered a legitimate "mod"... The only thing I could think of that really stands alone in classifying what is a "mod" and what isn't is warranty... The warranty doesn't have to be real, only used in concept... The idea is that any existing product could have the basic premise of a warranty applied to it, whether it is a new item or a vintage item the idea that this is a product, manufactured by a company with a legal obligation to support their product should it be faulty and that you, as an individual, are making significant enough modification to that product that any legal obligation the company has is now null and void is grounds for being called a "legitimate" mod.

The idea with using the warranty as a basic starting point isn't to start pouring over your warranty card, finding the part where it says farting in the immediate vicinity of this product voids the warranty and assuming all your farts are mods... The idea is that any modification with an easy reversal isn't a "mod" and any modification with absolutely no chance of reversal is.

On the other side of the fence any "mod" that didn't start with a pre-manufactured object isn't a mod either because you aren't modifying anything, you are building something and the base materials you are using are just that, material. While material is a product, it is not consumer product and you are expected to modify material so any guarantee or warranty is going to reflect that.

In my own personal opinion warranty is the only starting point when trying to draw a line between mods and "other".

Do models come with warranties? If so does turning them into a computer void that warranty? If it does then I see putting a computer into a model no different that building a computer into any other object that wasn't originally designed to house a computer... A model with a computer in it isn't any different than a BBQ with a computer in it, a mini-fridge with a computer in it or a cabinet with a computer in it, case-modding isn't just about modding a case to be something other than what it was originally, it's also about modding something that was never designed as a case to be a case... but it takes more than dropping your tower into a beer fridge to call something a mod.

[Munty]

The idea is that any modification with an easy reversal isn't a "mod" and any modification with absolutely no chance of reversal is.

I don't really see the validity of this argument. A mod is exactly the same as a modification. It's the same word but abbreviated... The question here is mod or model, which are very different things (hence the point of this thread) not mod or modification which are exactly the same...



case-modding isn't just about modding a case to be something other than what it was originally, it's also about modding something that was never designed as a case to be a case...

And I must disagree a second time. Case modding IS about modding a case to be different than it was before. This is a modification, or a mod, same thing...

Modding something that was never designed to be a case to be a case however is NOT case-modding as the object you're tinkering with was not a case when you started. Therefore it's not case modding but fits into the 'other' category with the beaver and such.

If you start off with something that is NOT a case, as you suggest, it becomes refrigerator modding or cabinet modding or BBQ modding... True the end-result IS a computer case but it's not a modded case, it's a modded something else. That's my thoughts anyway :D

[RogueOpportunist]

I don't really see the validity of this argument. A mod is exactly the same as a modification. It's the same word but abbreviated... The question here is mod or model, which are very different things (hence the point of this thread) not mod or modification which are exactly the same...


Then by your logic putting an LED fan into an HP Pavillion is a "mod"... In my world it isn't... The question of mod or model is exactly the same as the question of mod or modification... Because they aren't exactly the same... "mod" does not simply refer to any and all modifications for most people in modding communities... Then again many others think blinking lights, water cooling and CFL's are all "modding"... I could take an old shoe box, tape an ITX system into it and call it a mod... But is it? Same thing goes for a model, I could buy a large scale B22, tape an ITX system into that and call it a case mod... But is it? Did you modify the model by putting in a computer? Sure, the original model didn't have any tape inside it... But is that a "mod" by the terms we use it by?

By the definition of the word "modification" I could tape a pencil to the side of my case and call it a mod... Hell I could do practically anything and it would be a mod, is everything we do really modding? Or is there a line? What then become a "site worthy" mod and where is that line drawn? You see the mod vs. modification question is exactly the same as the mod vs. model question... How do you determine what is and what is not when the definitions of the words themselves do not apply.



And I must disagree a second time. Case modding IS about modding a case to be different than it was before. This is a modification, or a mod, same thing...

Modding something that was never designed to be a case to be a case however is NOT case-modding as the object you're tinkering with was not a case when you started. Therefore it's not case modding but fits into the 'other' category with the beaver and such.

If you start off with something that is NOT a case, as you suggest, it becomes refrigerator modding or cabinet modding or BBQ modding... True the end-result IS a computer case but it's not a modded case, it's a modded something else. That's my thoughts anyway :D

You seemed to have missed the word "just" in my original post, I didn't say case modding wasn't about modifying a case to be different than before, I said it wasn't "just" about modding a case to be different than it was before.

Case modding is as much about modding something different to be a case as it is about modding a case to be something different... Whether you want to mod a case or mod a BBQ if the end result is a case, it is a case mod... If you want to mod a BBQ into being an air conditioner then that is an air conditioner mod... The final modding "category" is defined by the end use of the item, not the original use... I base that opinion off of practically every modding community seemingly thinking the same way since there are no plumbing supply modding communities, no carpentry material modding communities and no sheet metal modding communities... All modding communities plant their categorical flag in the end result, not in the materials used to get there... But that's just the way I look at it, I'm sure there are endless ways to view the same picture.

[slaveofconvention]

LOL - I started a war heh....

IMO, ANY change to ANY thing is a mod - hell if you want to get down to sematics, a modification is a change to the standard, and mod is an abbreviation of modification.

My original question, which is managing to raise its head from time to time amid the swamp of case mod vs scratch build answers, was MEANT to be (I freely admit it may not have been super-clear) was relating to the how far things have gone.

It is my opinion that, for good or for bad (I'm NOT judging) that in order to be original or unique, we're now at a point in modding (using modding as a catch-all to mean case mods, scratch builds, repurposing of non computer parts as puter parts) where the computer part seems to be less and less important in SOME builds.

I was wondering if other people had noticed it, and if they thought it was, in any way, taking something away from modding in general - if the mod (again as a catch-all phrase) had become more important than the computer....

Bod's lightcycle (which I repeat, I think is both truly awesome and awe-inspiring) is, in my opinion, more of a model which happens to contain a computer, than a custom case which happens to resemble a light-cycle or carry a Tron theme.

[AmEv]

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/modification

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/modify

So, out of the horse's mouth.
A modification, by definition, is a change from its original state.

*ninjaed

[Munty]

And furthermore...

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/mod



mod    
–noun Informal .
modification.
Origin: by shortening

It's not a word, it's an abbreviation. There is NO mod vs. Modification because only one of these things exists...

But anyway I don't want to drag this into some sort of dictionary link-off or help it devolve into some sort of flame war. The original post was a question posed to the whole community and therefore all opinions are valid. My initial response was my own opinion and my last response was also my own opinion (which I made quite clear at the end of said post) This response is also a matter of opinion and at no point in this thread or any other have I set out to belittle or disregard the opinion of others...

'Nuff said...

Anyway, back on topic... I agree with SoC, any alteration to something is a modification and he's quite right that really it doesn't matter what we call it or how we classify it. The question here relates to the amount of projects appearing which place the emphasis on something other than actual stock-bought computer cases. Like the Lightcycle and the Eurisko and such.

Much as I've been trying to classify all sorts of different mods that's not what SoC meant to be discussed here so maybe we'll do it elsewhere later :lick: There are only two types we need to think about here. The first are stock mods where the case remains mostly intact and things like lighting, cooling and other fancy gizmos are added. The second type generally isn't based on a store bought case at all and are scratchbuilt from a wide variety of materials and designed with a very specific purpose and appearance in mind.

Whereas the first type generally has a colour theme attached to it in lighting or paint, it's less often that it has a specific theme like the second type. Even if it does it's usually achieved by the presence of custom graphics and a few token additions to the overall design. The second type of case can still be unthemed (sorry probably not a word!) and rather be created to be a particular shape or style, but quite often they can be all out models and every aspect of the build save the internal hardware itself can follow the same theme.

Personally I really love the second type of cases, scratchbuilt and themed cases. The amount of extra work that goes into them makes them much more impressive as an end result and while there are some truly incredible cases out there in the first category that are more than 90% stock, they just don't do for me what the otehrs do...

Maybe it's because I'm a modeller at heart but that's my personal preference at any rate!

I still love both though guys, so don't stop cutting windows and running LEDs and such :D

[RogueOpportunist]

I'm sure we all know what the words mean and don't need links to teach us basic English but as is clearly being outlined in this thread and for a larger part amongst modding communities in general the term "mod" in these circles is no longer being used as an abbreviation for modification, it is an all encompassing term being used to describe things which have nothing to do with the word "modification".

Using the definition of the word modification as a blanket translation to what is and is not a "mod" is like trying to summarize calling someone a "badass" by using the dictionary and saying you called that person a poor quality posterior...

[Munty]

So clarify it for us. If you're so adamant that the term mod actually means something different to the word it's an abbreviation of then share with us what that is and why. Back it up with some facts from elsewhere and include some quotes from other modding forums. Do that and there will be some validity to your argument. Right now all your doing is saying that a phone is not a telephone and everyone knows it but you seem to be the only person who actually believes it...

[RogueOpportunist]

If I'm so stupid and using "mod" as an all-encompassing term never happens you would think an example of what I'm talking about wouldn't be present in this very thread...



It is my opinion that, for good or for bad (I'm NOT judging) that in order to be original or unique, we're now at a point in modding (using modding as a catch-all to mean case mods, scratch builds, repurposing of non computer parts as puter parts) where the computer part seems to be less and less important in SOME builds.

...ah well, at least I didn't have to go far to get a quote for you... Apparently by your standards me, SOC and all the other people who have ever used the word "mod" to describe the scene as opposed to the action are just idiots who have no understanding of the English language.

Oh and of course Coolermaster is clearly staffed by dolts since they published this...



Best Modder of Scratch Build Category
TRON Lightcycle PC (by Boddaker)
Total scores: 88.00 (CM judges: 60.05 + Public vote: 27.95)


Best modder of a scratch build? Kind of a contradiction don't you think? I mean clearly a modder isn't a modder when they aren't modifying anything, right?


The word mod is being "misused" all throughout the "modding" community and like any misused word it eventually stops being considered misused and turns into slang... Mod, modding and modder are quickly becoming "cultural" slang used to describe people, communities and activities that may or may not be directly related to the word modification... I don't need to hit every forum and link to every post where it happens, just look around for yourself, it happens on a daily basis.

[Munty]

Oh Gods I give up, sorry for starting this SoC, I think I killed your discussion :(

In parting Mod = Modification, Modder = Modifier, Modding = Modifying. What I asked you for was some evidence that you aren't the only person in the world who thinks the words mod and modification mean different things. Check my post history, I use all of the above terms in almost every post I make, because it's easier than writing the full words out!

If you really think that 'mod' means something different to modification then by all means go ahead thinking that. And just to clarify, I don't know why you started that post by saying 'if I'm so stupid', noone ever said you were. I just said you were wrong because you are...

Enjoy your tantrum in here, I'm going to leave you to it so hopefully this thread can be returned to use by people who understand what the word opinion means (maybe mod too lol)

Oh and by the way, if you see a bunch of funky computers coming this way, don't worry about it. It's just the mods on their way to close this topic :facepalm:

Turns out I didn't even finish reading your last post before responding. LMFAO, it's not slang it's an ABBREVIATION!!!

[RogueOpportunist]

LMFAO, it's not slang it's an ABBREVIATION!!!

An abbreviation that is being used to describe scratch builds, the people making scratch builds and the communities they are a part of with other people making scratch builds... Hmm...

If you have absolutely no room in your life to account for the fact that people naturally "bend" the English language and that "meanings" of words can be distorted by cultural groups that's fine and I'm sorry it upsets you to hear that words may be used in unintended ways to describe things that aren't direct relations to their literal meaning but unfortunately the world and the languages therein have worked like this for as long as people can remember.

A modder can't be a "modifier" when he is not modifying anything if literal meanings are all we are going to accept, a modder can only be a modder when not "modifying" anything if the word is being used as a culturally distorted term to label a group of people which includes a contingent that are not directly modifying anything yet are still regarded members of the larger group that generally do modify things... It's a cultural exception to the definition that allows the word to embrace the full community instead of trying to segregate and classify each individual niche with its own label... This behavior is seen all over in all branches of life.

I do apologize that you seem to be getting upset over this, it is not my intention to upset you but there are examples of the word "mod" being used to describe things that are not modifications all throughout the modding scene, if you want to bury your head in a dictionary and completely ignore their existence while getting upset at someone on a forum that recognizes their presence and in response to that person feel the need to passively-aggressively insult their intelligence because you think they are wrong then there's not much I can do to help you, again I apologize.

[slaveofconvention]

Ah screw it - it's easily resolved - after a fashion....