A farewell to the Space Shuttle program

[Twigsoffury]

P2FycYSEEyA

[mDust]

I wish I could go watch the last launch. I've never seen one.

Was it budget problems, safety issues, or what that forced the retirement of the shuttle with no immediate replacement?

[SXRguyinMA]

Was it budget problems, safety issues, or what that forced the retirement of the shuttle with no immediate replacement?

it was Obama who put the smackdown on the space program. He thinks going to space is meaningless and the gov't shouldn't spend $$ on it anymore, and to leave it to private companies. F**K YOU OBAMA :whistler:

[OvRiDe]

Gee Will.. I wish you would just quit beating around the bush, and just tell us what you think.. :P

As far as I know the Space Shuttle program ran its course. It ended as scheduled from the beginning of the program. The problem is it was going to be replaced by the Constellation Program which would have used the Ares launch vehicle. This is where the current Administration decided to not fund the Constellation program which pretty much left us dead in the water. Instead they figured we can just hitch rides with the Ruskies who promptly raised the price after we cut our funding.

[x88x]

It is a sad day for our country, imo. The end of an era. We took great leaps and strides in the last half century; climbing into space, to the moon even...and now we are for all intents and purposes stranded here on this rock once again; dependent on the good graces of our (metaphorical) neighbor (Russia) to even get into orbit.

As for why, I believe it was a combination of safety and budget problems. Really though, it boils down to budget. The shuttles reached EOL and there hadn't been any development, or budgeting for development, of a replacement. They were working on a replacement with the Ares rockets in the Constellation program, but the entire Constellation program got scrapped last year because of (surprise, surprise) budget problems. The Russian Federal Space Agency has apparently been working on a reusable shuttle (the Kliper project (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kliper)), but that also appears to have been shelved due to lack of funding. Honestly, I think the only way we're ever going to get a replacement at this point is through private development.

[Twigsoffury]

I don't care about budgets i want my flying space Cadillac back.

http://www.technodisco.net/img/tracks/s/sir-menelik/97550-sir-menelik-space-cadillac--nightwork.jpg

[Cale_Hagan]

you know it is scary that we know more about space than our deepest oceans.... you know the old saying, invest at home, before elsewhere? same with earth. look to the oceans, now. :banana:

[blaze15301]

Great we are going to outsource our space program like we do everything else now.

[Twigsoffury]

you know it is scary that we know more about space than our deepest oceans.... you know the old saying, invest at home, before elsewhere? same with earth. look to the oceans, now. :banana:

we can't live on our planet forever if we are to survive.

[NightrainSrt4]

Barring a celestial catastrophe, we could if we didn't treat the earth so poorly and people stopped pumping out large quantities of children.

[x88x]

But where's the fun in that? :P Seriously; even if we start treating our environment better (something I'm all for, btw) and every country on earth puts severe population controls in place (something I'm vehemently against, personally), we'll eventually run out of space and resources (though probably not in that order). It may not be for another thousand years or more, but it is a fact that the resources on this planet are finite; they won't last forever. But that all aside, why shouldn't we spread ourselves to places other than Earth? Why should be limit ourselves to a single planet when we could have so much more? When we could be so much more.

The way I see it, there are only two things that stand in the way if such a future: the belief that we first have to perfect life and society on our planet before we can even consider going anywhere else, and short-sighted people in positions of power.

The first I mention because the most common argument I hear against the space program is "There are so many horrible things happening here on Earth. How can you justify spending resources on something like this?", or something along those lines. The answer to this is quite simple. To borrow from a philosophy that I've seen in several places, there are two ways to improve the universe: by decreasing suck and by increasing awesome. I believe that these two goals are both very important, but all too often people (and governments especially) focus exclusively on decreasing suck...and while that is a great and admirable goal, there is more to life than that. Case in point...this entire website. Case modding is one example that is almost purely increasing awesome. There are a few exceptions, such as cases being auctioned off and the proceeds going to charity, but for the most part there is not much suck being fixed by casemodding. We do it almost exclusively just to make cool things. And that is, imo, just awesome. :D

The second thing, short-sighted people in positions of power, is a problem because until the last ~20 years or so, all space travel R&D has been funded almost entirely by governments. And almost all of the people in control of those programs' funding are, by necessity, relatively short-sighted people. The types of programs that would really move us forward in the endeavor to expand to places other than Earth are programs that would likely take decades to reach completion...and possibly even longer before major returns are produced....and that is not something that it is easy or likely for someone worried about getting re-elected to support because it is also not the type of program that the majority of the voting population would support. This is one reason why I do not think it is entirely a bad thing that space research is moving more and more into the private sector.

[mDust]

To be honest, I think the corporations chasing profit in space will be how we get to other planets. Greed and fame have always been huge motivators in the past.

I think NASA will always have a place in space though. Maybe they and foreign space agencies can form a sort of space UN. They can setup stepping stones that governments and corporations alike can use to reach out farther.

A National Environment Exploration Agency wouldn't be a bad idea either. They could find patches of our planet that are known but unexplored and study them. They could use university volunteers and make thousands of discoveries a day for pennies on the dollar. If they organize the list of unemployment collectors by 'most time suckling on the system's teet' and kick out the top 1-3%...boom! There's a year or more worth of funding right there. McDonalds is always hiring anyway. Or if they have a family to support and need more money, they can work for the NEEA loading and unloading equipment and such. They can get paid to perform a job and see the world instead of watching Seinfeld reruns from the couch all day. Then we can explore the Earth and beyond at the same time!

[x88x]

To be honest, I think the corporations chasing profit in space will be how we get to other planets. Greed and fame have always been huge motivators in the past.
Agreed. I do, however, worry about interstellar colonization..I know, probably not going to even have its foundations started in my lifetime, but I can dream. :) Going from target identification to recognizance probes to actual colony ships is a process that could take a century or more, barring the discovery of a method of traveling faster than light. That is an incredibly long attention span to ask any investors, public or private, to have. I believe that we will make it eventually because, well, I just can't really see us staying cooped up in this solar system forever, but I do occasionally wonder what incentive will be required for us to take that first step. I only wish I could be one of the ones taking it.

[Twigsoffury]

Agreed. I do, however, worry about interstellar colonization..I know, probably not going to even have its foundations started in my lifetime, but I can dream. :) Going from target identification to recognizance probes to actual colony ships is a process that could take a century or more, barring the discovery of a method of traveling faster than light. That is an incredibly long attention span to ask any investors, public or private, to have. I believe that we will make it eventually because, well, I just can't really see us staying cooped up in this solar system forever, but I do occasionally wonder what incentive will be required for us to take that first step. I only wish I could be one of the ones taking it.


sure would be a shame to stunt that by disbanding a government space program.

[Collinstheclown]

http://chzmemebase.files.wordpress.com/2011/06/memes-apollo-was-just-a-summer-fling.jpg

[SXRguyinMA]

LOL!!

on a related note - last launch tomorrow 11:26AM ET, weather permitting. Right now they're saying a 70% chance of a weather postponement, so we'll see.

[SgtM]

11:26 am!?!?!? I gotta go to bed! Seriously though.. tonight is my Friday. If they're launching tomorrow, I'm gonna be up for it.

[SXRguyinMA]

I'll be watching it @ work, I already told the boss lol. They're doing the final go/no go weather check @ 1AM. If all is good they'll start fueling up @ 2

[SXRguyinMA]

well it's fueling, still 70% chance of no-go though

[SgtM]

Watching on my phone and on CNN.

[mDust]

Live ustream of launch if anyone wants to watch:
http://www.ustream.tv/nasahdtv#utm_campaign=synclickback&source=http://mashable.com/2011/07/08/shuttle-launch-atlantis-video/&medium=6540154
Should launch at 11:26AM today.

[x88x]

And lo have I borne witness to the beginning of the end of the independent US space program. :(

[x88x]

Thought this was rather appropriate.
http://cdn.leasticoulddo.com/comics/20110709.gif

[Twigsoffury]

Thought this was rather appropriate.
http://cdn.leasticoulddo.com/comics/20110709.gif

ISS and STS can be seen chasing each other across the night sky on the 26th.


http://spaceflight.nasa.gov/realdata/sightings/cities/skywatch.cgi?country=United+States

just pick your state and city (other countries are available to for yall outside of the US)

my bad its the 16th not the 26th.

[TheMainMan]

A ten minute window at 4am, I think I'll pass. Cool site though to show you what you can see.

[billygoat333]

weak.

[CorsePerVita]

Realistically, I think with everyone complaining about the budget and everything, a temporary hold off may not be a bad thing. I have no doubt that it'll come back at some point. Lots of good things have come out of space. Cryo treatment came from space. Anyone remember that? It's used heavilly on race car applications. My understanding is that it was discovered when metal was noticed to have structural properties that were far stronger from temperatures. So out of curiosity was replicated here on our good ol' rock and they discovered that the properties of metal could be strengthened by cryo treatment. We're talking a good amount too!

I remember reading a really funny article about a place in seattle that does it, and the guy put one of his razor blades for his mach 3 shaver in the treatment and the blade lasted him like 4 months.

So to say going to space is pointless, well, sorry Mr. Obama. Not true.

However, I'm sure we'll see it come back again at some point. I do like the comment though about exploring the oceans. I mean, hell, how much have we NOT explored of the oceans?

Sucks that it's been ended, at least for now. Mankind will always be curious. So long as that is a fact, space will always be there and we'll always want to go there.

[diluzio91]

Realistically, I think with everyone complaining about the budget and everything, a temporary hold off may not be a bad thing. I have no doubt that it'll come back at some point. Lots of good things have come out of space. Cryo treatment came from space. Anyone remember that? It's used heavilly on race car applications. My understanding is that it was discovered when metal was noticed to have structural properties that were far stronger from temperatures. So out of curiosity was replicated here on our good ol' rock and they discovered that the properties of metal could be strengthened by cryo treatment. We're talking a good amount too!

I remember reading a really funny article about a place in seattle that does it, and the guy put one of his razor blades for his mach 3 shaver in the treatment and the blade lasted him like 4 months.



My step dad does this. lol... The difference is impressive... If anyone needs it done hit me up and I'll supply you his info.

[CorsePerVita]

Actually, I'd be interested.

[diluzio91]

I'll make a post in the trading post section, Send me a PM, I'll talk to him about it today.