So, I'm building a thermoformer.

[tybrenis]

Hey guys,

I'm about to build a vacuum former for future mods and whatnot. Simple versions are pretty easy to make, but I am making a fairly large, complex one that will be able to perform very well and get a lot of accuracy. I'll make sure to post pics of how it is made once I begin.

However, I need some justification for building this huge machine. I was just wondering, would anyone here be interested in some custom made vacuum formed parts? I thought that it would be a great thing for the modding community. I remember a guy on the PimpRig.com forums who did custom fan grills, and he really helped everyone out a lot. I'm not looking to open a business - but perhaps this could be beneficial to the modding community.

And, if anyone feels like taking a stab at it, you should try building your own thermoformer. There are plans out there for building some little ones, but none that I could find on building large ones, with ceramic heating elements and whatnot.

Give me your feedback.

[Rankenphile]

Interesting stuff, Ty. What do you have planned for it?

A great thread made by the guy building the UAL 737 case on GruntVille is here (http://www.gruntville.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=15519), and has a ton of great advice and such about building a thermoformer. You may notice that one of the regular posters in that thread that seemd very helpful was good ol' CrazyBillyBob. Make sure you talk to him about this, he seems like he knows what he's doing. Or at least he's good at faking it.;)

[tybrenis]

Lol,

Thanks for the link. I saw that thread on the homepage on TBCS a bit ago, thats where I actually got the idea for it. I always wanted to have a vacuum former (I've got a wierd thing for plastics), but never even imagined it possible in a home environment until I saw that. I have modified the design quite a bit, so the heating element is suspended in the air, with the plastic sheet below it. When heated, the plastic sheet will unlock from below the heating element and slide down, over the buck, where the vacuum will engage. Mine will be large by industry standards, but I don't think I will make it nearly as big as Boddaker's.

[crazybillybob]

You may notice that one of the regular posters in that thread that seemd very helpful was good ol' CrazyBillyBob. Make sure you talk to him about this, he seems like he knows what he's doing. Or at least he's good at faking it.;)

I spent Quit abit of time researching possible tools for making R2 parts. Very early on I looked into Vac forming (also how you make Stormtrooper Armor). I amassed a ton of knowlage and websites while working on R2....I really don't know everything :) ....But I'm willing to learn. That's one of the big reasons it's taken 2 years and R2 still is not finished...1/2 of it has been research!

Bods is a Huge Vac table for home use, and the quality of pulls he's getting just shows that buck preping is very important. Just as important as being able to generate enough heat, and more important then haveing a super strong vacum.

Good Luck Tyb, After the last case you did...you have my intrest peaked... Let's see what you can do!

Crazybillybob

[tybrenis]

Thanks for the kind words, Billy bob! I actually just came upstairs from finishing my mod once and for all (updates later)!

I have also been ALL over the internet looking for info on vacuum forming for a long time now, gathering and drawing up plans.

I am actually using a heating element from an indoor electric griddle... it goes up to 400 degrees F, but I think I will still need to build some sort of aluminum housing to keep in the heat.

I have very little experience working with scuplting, so I think making the bucks will be a challenge for me. I know you can use all kinds of different materials, but it seems like bondo has worked quite well for a lot of people. Perhaps I will use that for smaller bucks (it's expensive!).

[crazybillybob]

Drywall Joint compound. Comes premixed and you get 5 Gal for cheap. You can buy a bucket of pre mixed and if it's too thin, add some of the dry mix type. It shapes and sands well. Plus it will handle the heat (some people use it in lost wax\foam metal casting as an outer coating on the foam....better surface finish). Plus you don't have all the toxic vapors like with bondo.....Downside is you've gotta make sure it's good and dry or you may have steam issues (not likely but could happen). Also use wood or other materal to be the bulk of the buck, only the outer 1/2" or so needs to be filler.

Good man!

Crazybillybob

[tybrenis]

Drywall Joint compound. Comes premixed and you get 5 Gal for cheap. You can buy a bucket of pre mixed and if it's too thin, add some of the dry mix type. It shapes and sands well. Plus it will handle the heat (some people use it in lost wax\foam metal casting as an outer coating on the foam....better surface finish). Plus you don't have all the toxic vapors like with bondo.....Downside is you've gotta make sure it's good and dry or you may have steam issues (not likely but could happen). Also use wood or other materal to be the bulk of the buck, only the outer 1/2" or so needs to be filler.

Good man!

Crazybillybob


Thanks CBB!!! I never would have thought of that, that is an excellent recomendation. I am going to Depot soon for all the parts, and I will make sure to pick some of this up.

Thanks!

[tybrenis]

Hey guys, I've got a question for everyone who may know.

I am about to buy the supplies to build this, and I need to make a choice on material.

"L" angle aluminum is quite pricey, and I was wondering if I could just make an "L" angle out of wood instead of the aluminum to use as my frame.

This wood will be bolted to my griddle, which I'll be using as a heating element. The element's maximum temperature is only 400 degress F. Would wood be an okay material here, or will it burn/catch on fire? And if wood won't work, could I use something else, like say, MDF, etc.? I just am looking for something a bit cheaper than aluminum angle (*shudders at price of 12 feet of it*).

EDIT: Idea: I have never worked with backerboard before. It is mostly concrete, I believe. Would it be cut easily into strips that I could make into an angle?

[tybrenis]

Change in plans. I can't live with a little vacuum former. I KNOW that in the future I will always want bigger. It's just who I am. So I've decided, I will buy another heating element, and put it right next to my other griddle. That will give me about a 20" x 20" molding area maximum. I'll use some aluminum bar to support the griddles, and the bar will be connected to a wood frame.

The plastic sheet will be suspended below the element and will disconnect for when you want to mold over the buck. So, you will heat the plastic, unclamp it, and pull it over your mold, switching on the vacuum.

I am going to go build a mock-up.

Design drawings / a work log perhaps later.

[Aero]

Aluminium angle channel (that "L" shaped stuff) isn't that expensinve if you buy it in large amounts. I think 8-10 feet is about $10 at home depot). I would not use wood though, the plastic might stict to it or you might get grain in the plexi. If you can't find Aluminium cheap enough try a local scrapyard (yes they still exist), or look for scrap steel at a metal shop.

[tybrenis]

Aluminium angle channel (that "L" shaped stuff) isn't that expensinve if you buy it in large amounts. I think 8-10 feet is about $10 at home depot). I would not use wood though, the plastic might stict to it or you might get grain in the plexi. If you can't find Aluminium cheap enough try a local scrapyard (yes they still exist), or look for scrap steel at a metal shop.

Thanks for the tips Aero. I will be going to Depot tomorrow, so I'll see what the price will be. With my new design, I will be using aluminum bar to support the heating elements mostly, and the the aluminum bars will connect with the wood/metal frame. I think that with this design, wood should be alright. Apparently, wood combusts at 425 degrees F, and I don't think my wood will get anywhere near 300 degrees. We'll see. I'm drawing up plans now, perhaps an update later tonight or tomorrow.

Would any one be interested in vacuum formed parts? My formable area will be able 21" x 21" inches. I honestly am just building this vacuum former for the sake of it. My parents don't want me to because they say I won't have anything to form - they're right. I'm sure I'll use it for a lot of my projects, but it would be nice to make mod supply stuff and perhaps make enough money to break even with the cost of getting this machine up and running (around 150 USD).

[Aero]

just one more thing, you might want a way to control heat. Acrylic is flexible at about 220 F, much hotter and gas bubblke begin to from, making your clear plexi not so clear.

[crazybillybob]

You may also want to pick up some thin aluminum "flashing" (it'sthin acheap in the roofing section at home despot...YES I have most of the odd thing picke out I'm there all the time between my house and R2). Put it between the L's and the wood (shiny side toward the heaters). IT will do 2 things one it will help keep the temp down on the wood and 2 (most important) it will reflect the heat back down to the plastic. While it will take a bit of heat to get the plastic up (with that big of a box) Areo's right you either want a temp controler or make sure you buy extra plastic so you can test with it (cause you'll buckle a few pulls)

Good luck,
Crazybillybob

[Cevinzol]

Use steel angle iron.

[tybrenis]

Thanks for the tips guys.

I have never worked with aluminum flashing before, but that is what I was planning on using as I saw it in Bod's work log. Also, I will be using two electric griddles (like for making pancakes and bacon on). The griddles each have a temp. control that goes from like 50 all the way up to 400 degrees F.

I have some quick designs drawn up, they might need a bit of explaining. These designs are mostly for my own sake so I have a guide to follow loosely:

The whole thing:

http://powerpackedpc.com/images/tbcs/box_full.jpg

Here is how it works:

The bottom part is the vacuum table, where the buck will sit on and the plastic will get sucked down. It is composed of three parts. The bottom box, some stand-offs to ensure equal suction, and then a top, made of pegboard (it has pre-drilled holes for equal suction).

The first part:

http://powerpackedpc.com/images/tbcs/box1.jpg

Then, it gets the stand-offs added on:

http://powerpackedpc.com/images/tbcs/box2.jpg

Then, it gets the pegboard on top:

http://powerpackedpc.com/images/tbcs/box2_lid.jpg

Then it all goes together and gets covered with plywood:

http://powerpackedpc.com/images/tbcs/box1_full.jpg

http://powerpackedpc.com/images/tbcs/box1_final.jpg

Now that the bottom box is finished, I think the top needs some explanation.

On the very top will be the two heating elements. Under them will go two aluminum bars. The bars will bend up from under them and then will go OVER and sit on top of the wood frame on top.

Then, on the sides sorounding the box, there will be aluminum flashing to reflect the heat to the plastic. Right under the grills and still slightly in the flashing will be our sheet of plastic. The frame will look like in this image, taken from "http://marvin3m.com/vacuum/index.htm":

http://pinrepair.com/vacuum/vac2.jpg

The plastic sheet sits in between the frames, and once heated will begin to sag. On the side of the frames, I will put two long bars of wood, one bar on each side of the frame. So, the bars will extend from the frame, over the frame of the vacuum former. There will be wingnuts on the sides of these bars that will go into the frame of the vacuum former. So, once the plastic begins to sag, you just undo the wingnuts, and then slip the plastic directly down over the mold. Then you turn on your vacuum, and voila, your piece is cooling and on its way to completion.

Tips, advice, feedback, suggestions, compliments, hate mail, requests, threats, and orders will be kindly appreciated, I love feedback.

[tybrenis]

I bought all the parts today, and prepped the heating elements. I want to put a work log up, but where should I put it? In the work log section? I don't think it says anything about it only having to be for cases.

[Cevinzol]

Not to sound catty or anyting but why not post your work log on YOUR site. You advertise it in your sig on every post and yet it seems kinda empty to me. Might be the perfect thing to perk it up with.

P.S. You might want to update your home page. It currently has the generic greeting for PHP-NUKE web portal on it and a link to create a super user account.

[tybrenis]

Not to sound catty or anyting but why not post your work log on YOUR site. You advertise it in your sig on every post and yet it seems kinda empty to me. Might be the perfect thing to perk it up with.

P.S. You might want to update your home page. It currently has the generic greeting for PHP-NUKE web portal on it and a link to create a super user account.

I'll write a guide for my site when I'm done, but I always like TBCS, of course. Yes, the idiots at my hosting company effed up and deleted my whole site, and they STILL haven't fixed it after like three weeks. It's extremely frustrating. I think I'll take the link down today.

[Rankenphile]

Ty,

I think the Tips & Tricks section would probably be a better fit for this sort of worklog, as it is more about building a tool for mods, rather than a mod itself.

[Aero]

hmm, I might need something vacum formed. But it might be too big for this rig. I'll let you know once I get the plans finished. Good luck though, can't wait to see this, I love seeing stuff vacumed formed, always so smooth :D.

[tybrenis]

Thanks guys. Aero, send me a PM when you know what you need, if you want to make a buck (a mold) yourself and then send it to me, I would gladly form the part for you free of charge. As of right now, it is done.

Thanks Rankenphile, I'll be putting up pics tonight. Hopefully they will help everyone whom is interested with building one.