Scared ****less Of

[overdosedelusion]

Don't laugh..

A moth that keeps flying around :(

Man im so ****ing scared of these things. especially the big ones, and the really big ones. the one in my room now is about 2 inches long :'( its so disgusting the way it flys and has a icky body >_< everytime it gets near me i throw my laptop on the floor and have to run out of my room with a pillow >_< i must look like such a tit.

anyone kno how to get rid of them other than swinging cowardly at them with pillows?

[Slug Toy]

aw dont try to kill it... they're harmless and they tickle, and they vibrate when they land on you, expecially the big ones.

2 inches is nothing though. theres one we have around here called the polyphemus. its actually pretty common all over north america. the polyphemus can have a wingspan of over 6 inches. the atlas moth, commonly found in thailand after dusk, can have a wingspan of over a foot... you can hear them before you can see them.

if you have a net, and you're reasonably careful, you can definitely catch it that way. moths can take a bit of punishment. but for god sake dont kill it. the big ones are often the rarest because they're prime targets for birds and bats.

[Omega]

Polyphemus is the name of the Cyclops in the Oddesy (The one that Odysseus blinds with a wooden stake).

=D

[AKA_RA]

slug toy has a good point. dont kill it. catch it in a net and let it go outside so a bat can eat it. ;)

[overdosedelusion]

aw dont try to kill it... they're harmless and they tickle, and they vibrate when they land on you, expecially the big ones.

2 inches is nothing though. theres one we have around here called the polyphemus. its actually pretty common all over north america. the polyphemus can have a wingspan of over 6 inches. the atlas moth, commonly found in thailand after dusk, can have a wingspan of over a foot... you can hear them before you can see them.

if you have a net, and you're reasonably careful, you can definitely catch it that way. moths can take a bit of punishment. but for god sake dont kill it. the big ones are often the rarest because they're prime targets for birds and bats.


EWWW!! BIG ****ING EWWW

i dunno if its the same breed, probably wont, but there was one that flew into my computer room about 2 years ago, its body was at least 4 or 5 inches long and i coudnt even bring myself to kill it i was that scared. you could see its hairy segmented body >_< i agree 2 inches is nothing but to me a moth is moth *hides*

[Airbozo]

heh I love watching the bats out of my living room window, catching the moths and skeeters. We often sit out on the deck and watch them swoop in. you can see them about 2-3 feet above your head catching the insects your body attracts... Wish I could tape it for you but I dont have a recorder that can see in low light.

[CanaBalistic]

A frinkin moth... Are you for real?

Ill admit that they arent the cutest creature of the insect kingdom but they are harmless. If you going to be afraid of a bug why dont you pick somthing that has the slight probabillity of doing you harm. Like a spider or somthing..


Slug: Man you sure know your bugs... Some moths actually give off cyanide gas. Which we should all know is not a good thing to inhale :)

[overdosedelusion]

A frinkin moth... Are you for real?

Ill admit that they arent the cutest creature of the insect kingdom but they are harmless. If you going to be afraid of a bug why dont you pick somthing that has the slight probabillity of doing you harm. Like a spider or somthing..


Slug: Man you sure know your bugs... Some moths actually give off cyanide gas. Which we should all know is not a good thing to inhale :)

yes im for real, i have mottephobia :( theyre too ugly to be harmless, they freak me the **** out :( spiders in the uk arnt anything to be afriad of, i dislike them, but no where near as much moths

[GT40_GearHead]

tajking about spiders....
heh the spiders in my room are like 2 inches or even more, i feed them bugs,
and about the moth, DONT kill it, it wont do you nothing instead try looking at it, you wil see the beauty of it, i just cant kill an insect,thow i have no remorse killing an animal

[Airbozo]

yes im for real, i have mottephobia :( theyre too ugly to be harmless, they freak me the **** out :( spiders in the uk arnt anything to be afriad of, i dislike them, but no where near as much moths


Spiders where I live take chunks out of you and jump at you if you mess with them. I pretty much leave them alone since they control the bad insects in my garden and weed out the mosquito population.

[.jrauck]

Its so fun when you see a spider on his web when the spider is 7 inches or so if you toss a cricket onto his web he will ravel it in spider web... its so neat to watch.

[GT40_GearHead]

dude i think you wanted to say 7cm, even that is on the huge side, 7 inches thats a mutation(wich i would love around my home :D), LOL

[.jrauck]

dude i think you wanted to say 7cm, even that is on the huge side, 7 inches thats a mutation(wich i would love around my home :D), LOL
No im not I swear... I have seen spiders in Texas the size of the palm of my hand, and im not exagerating either im serious. It was out in the country and I live in the Subarbs so unfortunately I cant take a picture of one.

[overdosedelusion]

dude i think you wanted to say 7cm, even that is on the huge side, 7 inches thats a mutation(wich i would love around my home :D), LOL

ew, seriously, what is with you people. if a 7 inch spider was trundling round in my house id have to kill it and have my house fumigated just incase it layed eggs. thankfully, spiders in enlgand are tiny, if it were the brown recluse then id move country, ive seen what those ****ers do to you *shudders*

[GT40_GearHead]

you right, i just found one in some books i have
sorry
oaaa whi can't i have a 7inch spider(run down by the mob of jelous 2inch spiders)

[Slug Toy]

Slug: Man you sure know your bugs

before i got into rocks, i was into bugs. before i was into bugs, i was into dinosaurs. im also into anything dangerous and highly theoretical (you know... railguns, tasers, plasma... its a high voltage trend right now). anyways, ive pretty much catalogued every bug in sight here, and memorized it too.


spiders in the uk arnt anything to be afriad of

so you're in the uk. well its not a polyphemus in your room then. you get a lot of garden tiger moths... what colour is it?

and no, spiders in the uk are pansies. i found a black widow in a garbage can once. i picked it up too because i was 7 and stupid. we've got hobo spiders here too... they look like wolf spiders but you sure as hell dont want to get bitten... they cause local necrosis and i think in some extreme cases people have lost limbs and suffered neurological damage. we get big wolf spiders too... like 5 or 6 inch leg span. they like my room for some reason, and ive had many close encounters of the arachnid kind. not a very nice wake up call to say the least.


Spiders where I live take chunks out of you and jump at you if you mess with them

you sure about that? in CA? spider wont take chunks... they use fangs... they put holes in you. and jumping... well any native north american spider big enough to put holes in you probably cant launch itself very far.

interesting thing to note though. watch out when you get bananas. those banana spiders... the ones that sometimes hitch rides in the crates... those are ones to worry about, and ive found some in stores. banana spider is another name for brazilian wandering spider... this one can jump about three feet, has a notoriously bad temper, and has neurotoxins. you get bit by one, id say you have an hour. one good thing is they have a very distinct shape, so fidn a picture and know it. once you know it, youll never mistake the real thing... especially when it jumps at you.

so in conclusion... i forgot now.

<EDIT>

you guys talk too fast.


dude i think you wanted to say 7cm, even that is on the huge side, 7 inches thats a mutation

7 inches is possible. think about the bird eating spider. those get as large as a dinner plate. a mutation would be more like different colour... or death.


if it were the brown recluse then id move country

same sort of thing as our hobo spider.

[overdosedelusion]

so you're in the uk. well its not a polyphemus in your room then. you get a lot of garden tiger moths... what colour is it?


i cat really remember, it was a kindah greyish brown, but i remember it had a huge **** off body.

[Slug Toy]

greyish brown.... eye spots? did it look like it had eyes on its wings? and if it landed, what shape did it keep its wings in? like a V or more like a semi circle, or folded like a tent?

[overdosedelusion]

greyish brown.... eye spots? did it look like it had eyes on its wings? and if it landed, what shape did it keep its wings in? like a V or more like a semi circle, or folded like a tent?

i couldnt see its wings properly as it landed rather dodgy, i could see its arse through its wings if that helps, looked kindah V-shaped and think it did have black spots, but im not sure (this was 2 or 3 years ago)

[Slug Toy]

V shaped... say no more. its a hawkmoth. its the right size, colour, and shape to be something like a poplar hawkmoth... lots of them look alike though so if you dont get a good look, youll never know for sure. the caterpillars are huge (think tomato hornworm or something like that).

fun facts:

the deaths head hawkmoth can screech and make very unpleasant noises.

theres one type of hawkmoth that can actually hover and drink nectar from flowers kind of like a humming bird.

hawkmoths are the fastest moths in the world.

[overdosedelusion]

you learn something everyday ^^, man im glad it wasn't screeching, that would have creeped me so much

[FyR]

I dont mind moths, its the crane flys (in england we call them Daddy-longlegs, which is actually a type of spider in america) i hate, there so stupid and crash into everything. Im not scared of them, they just piss me right offf, buzzing around in no particular direction. I never kill spiders in my house because it brings me joy to see crane flys get caught in their webs and eaten :D spiders are like my little pest control unit.

I once thought my computer was going to blow up because one got sucked into the fan at the front and made a really loud bzzzzz before disloging itself from the fan blades. Needless to say i crapped myself thinking somthing had overheated until i saw lots of legs dotted around the case and bits of crane fly body splattered over my HSF.

[overdosedelusion]

I dont mind moths, its the crane flys (in england we call them Daddy-longlegs, which is actually a type of spider in america) i hate, there so stupid and crash into everything. Im not scared of them, they just piss me right offf, buzzing around in no particular direction. I never kill spiders in my house because it brings me joy to see crane flys get caught in their webs and eaten :D spiders are like my little pest control unit.

I once thought my computer was going to blow up because one got sucked into the fan at the front and made a really loud bzzzzz before disloging itself from the fan blades. Needless to say i crapped myself thinking somthing had overheated until i saw lots of legs dotted around the case and bits of crane fly body splattered over my HSF.

good, the son of a bitch deserved it in my opinion, all bugs should either die or leave me be, one or the other.

[nil8]

Slug Toy, you're bug knowledge is awesome.

Bugs get a bad wrap. 99.9% of them aren't dangerous.

Spiders get a worse wrap. Personally I rather like spiders and snakes. They do pest population control. Just don't mess with me while I'm sleeping.

As for moths, they rule.
Until you have one land on you and stay for over an hour, you don't realize just how awesome moths really are. They do shudder like stated before and it's really neat.

I feel the same way about fireflies. I've had them land on me while outdoors and stick around for a long time.

Does anyone else have junebugs?
Picture: http://www.cnr.berkeley.edu/citybugs/search/ident_images/IDed/Coleoptera/junebug.jpeg

[DaveW]

You guys are messed up, man.

-Dave

[tennysol]

Small moths I can take...when they get to be the size of small birds, that's when I back away slowly.

But I would take 200 bird sized moths anyday before I took roaches and palmetto bugs (which is a giant roach). I once was walking down a sidewalk at night and I wasn't paying attention and I stepped and heard this horrid crunching noise...I jumped about 3 feet in the air and ran about 6 feet. When I turned around I saw that I had stepped on a MASSIVE palmetto bug (it was the size of a saucer, or small plate) and it was still ALIVE and WALKING! I have never been so freaked out in my entire life. The really freaky part is that the palmetto bugs can fly...a giant flying roach...I shudder even as I write this...now that's gross!

[Rankenphile]

As much as I hate spiders (and I really, really hate spiders - it's a phobia, I know it is irrational, but I hate 'em regardless) I don't think any of us has room to complain until one of our Australian friends decides to chime in on this conversation.

You think your bugs are bad? Move to Australia. Hehehe.

[Aero]

2 things I hate. Spiders, and medical needles.

But the worst bugsI have seen have been in Flordia. I was landing a plane at camp once and had to swerve to avoid a beetle the size of a baseball on the runway. Dang I hate bugs.

[nil8]

Ranken is right. Aussies have it the worst. Look at their top 10 spiders and at least 3 are deadly.

The one bug I cannot stand is centipedes. I have been bitten by one before and I kill them anytime I see them.

I live next to a field and I had an 8 foot black snake in my front yard about a month ago. My neighbors have little kids and freaked out and I explained to them that black snakes arent dangerous at all and eat small vermin like mice. I wonder what happened to that snake.

As for moths, I would be ok with a moth the size of a small bird. I dont get bothered by most creatures.

Camel spiders and scorpions I am not a fan of.

[Slug Toy]

christ... if i saw something like an atlas moth (the one with the 12 inch wingspan) id be running after it. its on my list of things to hold.... poisonous centipedes, spiders, scorpions, and snakes are already crossed off.


Does anyone else have junebugs?

oh ya, we got those in the interior (penticton, kelowna, kamloops... those kinds of places). not huge, but probably golf ball sized.


You think your bugs are bad? Move to Australia

oh god, the poor aussies. i actually want to go there just for those reasons... get up close and personal with a funnel web or trap door spider. the most DANGEROUS thing we have here is rattlesnakes.


dont mind moths, its the crane flys

you know what i hate? horse flies, botflies, mosquitos, blackflies. i hate anything that goes out of its way to get you. other than that... some DO creep me out a bit, but curiosity always wins.

[nil8]

Biggest junebug I've ever dealt with was as long as my thumb. That is a loud thump against a tent.

Atlas moth does sound pretty cool.
I remember that Chicago had a rocking science museum that had an entire section on various bug species, but the name escapes me. It's not the popular science museum, it's the one that the University of Chicago uses for research.
Crap. Blegh.

In southwest MO we have copperheads, rattlesnakes, water moccasins, brown recluses and black widows. Those are the only really posionous things I know about.

Funny story, I was night fishing on a bank a few years back and I felt some pressure on the side of my foot. I turned on my flashlight to see a water moccasin slithering past me. I just stood still and it went on about its business. Freaking out only scares creatures, and I don't want to be bitten.

The creatures that scare me are ones larger and faster than humans. If you ever see a bear you really get a sense of how quick and how big they are.

[Slug Toy]

oh ive come face to face with bears too. i was doing some creek fishing with my friend just last year. we were about to head back up to the road, and a mother bear and two cubs came out of the bushes about 20 feet away.

needless to say, my friend got a little worried. i just told him to go and i backed away after him... i dont turn my back on things like that.

no problems though. i dont even think they heard us.

[Airbozo]

oh ive come face to face with bears too. i was doing some creek fishing with my friend just last year. we were about to head back up to the road, and a mother bear and two cubs came out of the bushes about 20 feet away.

needless to say, my friend got a little worried. i just told him to go and i backed away after him... i dont turn my back on things like that.

no problems though. i dont even think they heard us.

Yes, they probably did hear you and smelled you. Most bears are not afraid of humans. One exception is in alaska where you can get permits to hunt them in certain locations. We were an a kayak trip in alaska and on one island they were protected and they pretty much ignored us, on another island they were hunted at various times of the year and if they saw you or smelled you they would run...

I have a great story about bears and huntington lake in norcal. You drive in to the campgrounds and they have all of these polaroids showing the damage bears do to peeps cars who leave food in them. One picture showed a bear ripping the door off of a truck to get at the ice chest. The first night we were there, there was a couple with their 2 kids. Looked like their first time camping (and probably their last), and they left their food in their car. The camground was awoke to the sound of a LARGE bear busting open the window and pulling the door off. The bear proceeded to pull out the ice chest and one by one open tupperware and devour the contents. The cans of soda seemed to be playthings for him since he kept poking them with his claws to get them to fizz. He fell asleep on top of their car (not sure how since the mother never stopped screaming) and the ranger showed up about half an hour later to shoo him away. The tow truck showed up the next day to take the car away and the noob campers left with him.

I still love going to that place! The people are more fun to watch than the animals...

[monoflap]

I live like 45 min. from chicago and I've seen that collection. There are cases and cases of butterflies and such, I'd say they had like a 5-6 inch wingspan. I don't mind bugs, my brother is a huge bug guy though, we have two cases of like 50 different bugs from his collection. I would put up a pic but I have no image host.

[Slug Toy]

we have two cases of like 50 different bugs from his collection.

even though im a bug guy too, i really dont agree with collecting. i take pictures and let everything go. in most cases its a shame to kill something that looks so awesome. the worst i do is hold on to them for a while and have a good look, and if it doesnt fly, i watch it walk around on a table or something.


Yes, they probably did hear you and smelled you

well if it were a single bear, i might assume that. in this case we're talking about a mother and two small cubs (i figure maybe a couple months at most). at that stage.... if the mother had known we were there... well i probably wouldnt be talking right now... those maternal instincts.

[simon275]

Right time for an Aussie to step and knock all your pissy American spiders off.

In my garden right now there are Australasian funnel-web spider. One bight from them and you are dead with in a minute or so. No time for an ambualance you are screwed.

The funny thing though there is a spider I cant remember its name is the msot posioniss but its fangs are to small so it can't bight you. it can only kill other spiders and bugs.

Then there is what is in the ocean.

Up in queensland on the great barrier reaf there are sea snakes which have neuro venom which screw with the ability of your neurons to fir or something. Pretty much you are swiming around one bights you. and you drown. Mostly they will leave you alone I have swum with them just don't touch them.

Also there are stone fish which lie on the bottom that look like rocks. If you step on you will die pretty soon. Unless a boat is near.

Also a few people a year get taken by sharks. They think people in wetsuits are seals. Also they are attracted to urine in the water.

Then there are snakes.

So many. Tiger Snakes, Brown Snakes, Taipan, Dugite (causes pralasis instantly) All these snakes are venoums and cause death some within hours some within minutes. Most wont attack unless hungry or frightened. If you come across one stand perfectly still and it will go away hopefully.

Dont try and kick it they will bight through your shoe. Unless you go bush walking with steel caped boots but who would.

This has being a public service anoucment. Ding*

Come to Australia just dont get bitten or stung.

Oh and nil8 we have posionious centapedies and catapillars here to.

[nil8]

Yep, screw Australia. If I want what a trip there would be like I would just handle 5 deadly creatures at once, standing in an ER, while someone threw salt water and a small shark at my face.
How about New Zealand? Any large amount of super deadly creatures there?

[FyR]

lol and i was moaning about crane flys ;)

[simon275]

In NZ there is stuff all to bloddy cold for snakes. There some spiders but mostly the frost kills em. Most dangerous thing in NZ are sheep baaaaaaaaa!

hahaha lol :D

Australia's not that bad. If you leave those things alone they will leave you alone. I.e dont touch things they dont just bite they kill

[overdosedelusion]

i think Aussies and people in the southern states of US have it worst. the US have the brown recluse spider, once it bites you, within 3 days the skin around the bite in about a 5 or 6 inch radius dies. in 5 days, the dead skin slowly turns into a hole in your leg. in 2 weeks it would be easier to aputate the limb than save it. and there is no antidote. once youre bitten you just have to hope that cutting the infection out worked. now thats ****e, just as bad as death imo, seeing your limbs rot and smelling the dead flesh *shivvers*

[simon275]

We have those. Same venom and effect execpt the spider is a little white one. I never new it could get that serious though. :eek:

At least we dont have scorpions like in the middle east.

[.jrauck]

Me and my uncle were fishing on the beach out in the water up to our waste. We saw 2 fins swiming about 2 or so feet away.We got out of te water for our safety then we decided to go back in the water after about 10 minutes of not seeing them. Then about 5 minutes later of in the water 2 fins swimming pretty fast at my uncles leg once i saw that I hauled off and screamed at my uncle and he was out of the water pretty quick as well.

[DaveW]

then we decided to go back in the water after about 10 minutes of not seeing them.

You guys are either really brave, or really crazy-no offence meant! Jesus, if i saw fins in the water offshore i'd not go back into the sea for years! 2 feet away...christ, you're nuts!

-Dave

[nil8]

i think Aussies and people in the southern states of US have it worst. the US have the brown recluse spider, once it bites you, within 3 days the skin around the bite in about a 5 or 6 inch radius dies. in 5 days, the dead skin slowly turns into a hole in your leg. in 2 weeks it would be easier to aputate the limb than save it. and there is no antidote. once youre bitten you just have to hope that cutting the infection out worked. now thats ****e, just as bad as death imo, seeing your limbs rot and smelling the dead flesh *shivvers*

That's worse case scenario only and rarely happens. I've been bitten by a brown recluse on my knee and it just made a hard lump under the skin for 3 weeks or so and went away.

The bad part is there's nothing that can do about it. There's no way to reverse the wound, all they can do is deal with the damage.

Good basic info about the brown recluse.
http://ohioline.osu.edu/hyg-fact/2000/2061.html

Amazingly good info about control.
http://www.uky.edu/Ag/Entomology/entfacts/struct/ef631.htm

A bite forum, shows the various levels of brown recluse damage.
http://www.highway60.com/mark/brs/default.htm

Man, I love the internet.

[Airbozo]

At least we dont have scorpions like in the middle east.


Not just the middle east. I could walk out my back door and under 1 out of 10 rocks I turn over there will be a scorpion.

Just in my garden I have scorpions, centipedes (or millipedes, not sure the difference), black widows, brown recluse (not very poisonous here but still painfull), fiddler spiders, wolf spiders and these nasty little wasps that sting you if you bump into them (or visa versa).

But if you ask me the most painful thing in my backyard is poison oak (Toxicodendron diversilobum). That stuff can be NASTY!

http://waynesword.palomar.edu/ww0802.htm

[nil8]

Fiddler spiders are brown recluse spiders.
Wolf spiders are 100% harmless and if you're bitten by one the wound will probably get a little pink and sensitive and nothing else.
No worse than chiggers really.

Millipede
http://www.life.uiuc.edu/edtech/entomology_slides/images/30807-millipede.jpg

Centipede
http://images.encarta.msn.com/xrefmedia/sharemed/targets/images/pho/t025/T025675A.jpg

Millipede's aren't dangerous until they get into your food supply. They like a lot of different types of grains and flours.
Certain centipedes are deadly.

All wasps sting you if you bump into them. It's there nature.
Nastiest flying stinging creature is the Japanese hornet.

http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2002/10/1025_021025_GiantHornets.html
http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2005/10/1012_051012_hornet_video.html

Second link is a sweet video showing the natural defenses of the Japanese bee against the hornets.

[Airbozo]

Fiddler spiders are brown recluse spiders.
Wolf spiders are 100% harmless and if you're bitten by one the wound will probably get a little pink and sensitive and nothing else.
No worse than chiggers really.

Millipede
http://www.life.uiuc.edu/edtech/entomology_slides/images/30807-millipede.jpg

Centipede
http://images.encarta.msn.com/xrefmedia/sharemed/targets/images/pho/t025/T025675A.jpg

Millipede's aren't dangerous until they get into your food supply. They like a lot of different types of grains and flours.
Certain centipedes are deadly.

All wasps sting you if you bump into them. It's there nature.
Nastiest flying stinging creature is the Japanese hornet.

http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2002/10/1025_021025_GiantHornets.html
http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2005/10/1012_051012_hornet_video.html

Second link is a sweet video showing the natural defenses of the Japanese bee against the hornets.


Did not know about fiddlers being B.recluse. They look a little different though.

Wolf spider are not 100% harmless, they take a pretty good chunk of skin out but no they are not poisonous. Just have to watch for infection.

Nice links...

[overdosedelusion]

That's worse case scenario only and rarely happens. I've been bitten by a brown recluse on my knee and it just made a hard lump under the skin for 3 weeks or so and went away

you're lucky, ive seen a few people on tv that have had worst case scenarios and theyre horrible, someone really needs to invent an anti-venom for that thing :S

[Durrthock]

Lol we have moths the size of birds.
Called lunar moths.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/wiltshire/entertainment/days_out/images/butterfly_270b.jpg

[Slug Toy]

Called lunar moths.

luna. luuuuna. theres no R on the end, although with some accents it might sound like lunar.

that picture doesnt look like a luna moth though. theres another one that looks almost identical but isnt quite the same. for the life of me i cant remember what its called though. if you look up the saturnidae family of moths youll probably find it. i think it lives in india... but im drawing a lot of blanks. all i know is luna moths should be pale green, and slightly smaller than that picture.

[onelegout]

Wow some of you realy know your stuff when it comes to bugs!
Maybe you could help me find what got me 2 weeks ago....

I basicly woke up in bed at 5am with the whole left side of my body in what seemed like a cramp. It was the same feeling as cramp but it was EVERYWHERE, especialy in my joints and deep inside my leg. It started in my leg and deep in my pelvis then moved to my stomach then neck then arm, but never reached the right side of my body. After about 2 hours of writhing around in pain thinking that I was dying it faded and I fell asleep.
When I woke up my inside lower leg was sweating heavily in an area the size of my hand. it was swollen in a bump and on top of the bump was a smaller white bump like a mosquito bite, but it didnt feel like one (didnt itch at all). It continued to sweat for the next day. When the sweating stopped and the swelling went down (it was only a little bit swollen) there were 2 red dots about 4mm apart. One of the spots has almost died away now but the other has stayed.

Id LOVE to find out what caused it, even if it isnt a bug! I want to know what's lurking under the bed and breeding! :D

Thanks,
H

[simon275]

I shudder to think.

Yes children their really is a monster under your bed and onelegout was bitten by it. Do you go and see a doctor or something. Just winging it like that would have been pretty boring.

[nil8]

That is totally a doctor's call. They should be able to do blood tests and find out what bit you.

That sounds like a mild neurotoxin designed to paralyze its victims. If you ever get tazered, it's basically the same feeling.

[Slug Toy]

they wont be able to tell now. its been too long. toxins are basically proteins, and once the symptoms are gone, that means the proteins have completely denatured. most times it should just show up as an excess of amino acids.

yes, that was most definitely a neurotoxin, and from the sounds of it, you're damn lucky. those symptoms you described are characteristic of non fatal black widow bites, but the 4mm spacing is too big. black widow bites are almost invisible. id say it was either a quick defensive bite, or the spider was large enough to be able to overpower prey and not need to rely on strong toxins.

its interesting to note how the pain travelled. heres a little tidbit of biology for you. toxins like that travel through the lymphatic system, and dont travel too fast either. why you ask? because the lymphatic system is basically a drainage system for fluids in your tissues (the fluids originally come from your blood through the vessel walls). so obviously that fluid wont travel with the same pulse as your blood does because it travels through tissues first. the fluid is also the reason why the toxins end up in the lymphatic system in the first place... the bite is in tissue (skin), so naturally it follows the draining fluid.

the biggest thing i need to know is where you live. that narrows things down a lot, and the 4mm spacing will too because that means it was a larger spider. the neurotoxin part does a little more narrowing for me... although a lot of spiders use that sort of thing (the whole keeping the prey alive thing).

any bruising, bleeding, or tremors? that will help too.

and one last thing. check your bed, then your room, then your house. if you didnt wake up with something squishy on you, that means its still loose, and i doubt you'll want to go through that crap again. you never know, you might develop an allergy too (thats pretty common for poisonous bites).

[CanaBalistic]

Holy mother of Neptune!.. I went to that bite forum posted on page 5 of this thread. That is the sickest nastiest most disturbing site ever. I searched through the post with pictures only. I viewed EVERY pic ranging from somewhat severe to fataly severe. I would never want an extreme case of neurosis as i seen in thoes pictures.

One woman went in for sergury to remove the disolved tissue and afterwards she had a hole in the back of her neck the size of a 10 yr olds fist. Seeing her spinal colum was rather disturbing.

wow...

[nil8]

The reality of the damage a spider about the size of a quarter can cause gives real insight into our biology. If you get away from a cellular design, that kind of breakdown is almost impossible, but then again, so is organs.


BTW, it's not neurosis. It's neucrosis. It's the killing of tissue.

As for the bite, a good endocrinologist should be able to determine what bit you even days afterwards.

Slug Toy makes a good point. It sounds like the thing that bit you didn't die. I would suggest cleaning your sleeping area and possibly rearranging it entirely.

As for the allergy, one of the strangest things someone can do to their body is to make it immune via exposure. I will give poison ivy as an example because it's common to be allergic.

If you start of with minute amounts of poision ivy, extract the chemicals that cause the allergic reaction(aka brew tea), and drink it daily for many years, you can alter your body chemistry to accept the chemical and lose the allergic reaction. It's long, slow, difficult, and not much fun, but it's a way to lose your allergy. With bugs or creatures it's more difficult and normally involves being bitten or dealing with high levels of biological chemistry and making a serum you can inject.

On a positive note, flypaper still works.

[Airbozo]

RE: Immunity via exposure:

Where I live poison oak is EVERYWHERE and it can leave scars on you and disfigure you terribly, sometimes permanantly if your body is sensitive to it. It can effect some people so badly that they won't let you give blood if you have had poison oak in the last couple of months!

To point: Goats will eat the stuff and not have any reaction, but people will drink the goats milk to build up an immunity.

[Slug Toy]

If you get away from a cellular design, that kind of breakdown is almost impossible

say what now? if you get away from a cellular design, life isnt possible, but biological actions arent affected. proteins still fold, enzymes still bind, hydrolysis still occurs. lots of toxins dont destroy cell membranes... they usually are very specific in what they attack, in fact the only reason necrosis occurs is because the toxin attacks something that is key to holding a cell together (im not going to say anything specific here because there are way too many mechanisms).

while we're at it... im pretty sure its necrosis and not neucrosis... neucrosis would be like the break down of nervous tissue... and anyways i dont even think thats a proper word. only reason im being picky is because a slight spelling mistake can change the meaning entirely.

now as for immunities.. thats another route that can be taken. you usually develop an immunity or an allergy. it depends on how many exposures and how much each time. two very large doses will probably cause an allergy. 20 small doses will set you on a path to resistance. in the case of being cramped up on one side and in extreme pain... id say that will lead to an allergy. genetic predisposition plays a part here... so if you take that into account... it turns into more of a guessing game, so ill leave that alone (no one knows anything about the genetic aspect anyways).

oh, and i just saw where you live, onelegout... maybe i should check before i ask from now on. ill start looking into this tomorrow then.

<EDIT> i just googled this to see what i could find real quick. i dont know how old the story is, but apparently a nest of some poisonous spiders was found near windsor castle, and they certainly fall into the right size range (apparently 9cm leg span). they are supposed to live underground (this gets me thinking because you said it happened in bed... probably under the covers). other than that, i havent found much. you have black widows in the area, but the only way you can get such a large bite mark is from multiple bites by them. now that i think of it though, im pretty sure black widows are more than happy to bite multiple times.

my suggestion now: find the spider... find any spiders in your house, take pictures or describe them to me. keep an eye on the bite too. just because the pain hinted at neurotoxins doesnt mean you're in the clear once the it stops (ive found a few cases where bites look like blisters and once they were popped... well they turn into one of those nasty situations). there could be other poisons in there too.

[nil8]

It is necrosis. My bad.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Necrosis

It's hard for us to biologically think about anything but a cellular structure because we don't have any examples of it. All life we see is celluar. The reactions and chemical interactions would be completely different. It would be alien biological structure. This is the kind of crap that pops in my head after a long day at work.

If you want a good sample of the spiders in your house, put glue boards in corners or in dark areas for a week or so should give you a decent sample of spiders.
If it is the black widow like slug thinks, it's easy to identify.

I still hate chiggers.

[b4i7]

thats cuz he meant lunar moth.....they fly here from the moon...hoping to take over our planet :P:eek:

[Slug Toy]

The reactions and chemical interactions would be completely different. It would be alien biological structure.

define different in this case. if you take away the structure of a cell, the organelles and enzymes will act just fine, but they will be much less effective because there is no confinement (the surface area to volume ratio thing). this of course happens only if everything is in reasonably neutral water. things will start going weird if you change temperatures, pH, or change solvents. its completely possible to have things form in acetone that will perform a function similar to how a protein that acts in water.

also... i would tend to think that a cell structure is inevitable in any situation. it would be a random occurence (just like how the cells we know supposedly originated), but its an eventuality seeming as chemicals are constantly forming, breaking down, reorganizing, and acting on each other in weird and wonderful ways. heck, we've already been able to create large polymers that mimic cell membranes. if you havent... i would suggest checking out "the RNA world". its not a book, or a course... its more like a way of thinking about primitive single cell origins. after i read up on it, life started to seem like a very large fluke.

now, getting back to that spider... im not saying its a black widow... yet. its a possibility though, seeming as there are black widows in britain. lets just leave it at "its a spider, and its something to be concerned about" for now.

[DaveW]

Slug Toy, you're a walking wikipedia. It amazes me the stuff you can come out with.

-Dave

[CanaBalistic]

define different in this case. if you take away the structure of a cell, the organelles and enzymes will act just fine, but they will be much less effective because there is no confinement (the surface area to volume ratio thing). this of course happens only if everything is in reasonably neutral water. things will start going weird if you change temperatures, pH, or change solvents. its completely possible to have things form in acetone that will perform a function similar to how a protein that acts in water.


Another point to touch on. The cell membrane contains little "docks" for peptides, antibodies and other such things. Thies basicly tell the cell what to do. I would think that without the membrane the cell would be (for lack of a better word) brain dead. Certin functions would still occur but im sure they would be erratic at best.

[Slug Toy]

Another point to touch on. The cell membrane contains little "docks" for peptides, antibodies and other such things. Thies basicly tell the cell what to do. I would think that without the membrane the cell would be (for lack of a better word) brain dead. Certin functions would still occur but im sure they would be erratic at best.

ok, ill forgive you for some things here... and correct while im at it. there arent really any docks on a cell membrane, and definitely no docks for peptides (peptides are what make up proteins, and they dont latch on to a cell membrane). same for antibodies because those things latch on to foreign objects. and they definitely dont tell the cell what to do... the nucleus, along with some hormones, tells the cell what to do. whats on the surface of a cell may tell another cell beside it how to react (like a friend or foe reaction). moving on....

actually, the membrane doesnt really have any critical functions beyond cell recognition and transport. there are things like cholesterol and various other carbohydrates for recognition. the carbohydrates and the transport agents (carrier proteins like the proton pump) arent too much of a loss. in fact, if you get rid of the membrane, you no longer need active transport to get the larger molecules in... it simplifies things, although makes them harder because of a lesser chance of actually running into a useful molecule.

by no means would a cell be braindead without membrane. mitochondria and chloroplasts still have their own dna (i wont go into that but suffice to say they started as something else) and can carry on just fine without being inside a cell. ribosomes will function, the endoplasmic reticulum will, the nucleus would too providing the chromosomes dont start tearing apart from exposure to bad things. speaking of chromosomes... not being bound by membranes would probably give rise to all sorts of crazy mutations because the enzymes that remove mutant parts of dna would probably drift away. youd see all kinds of stuff popping up, and if you reinsterted it into a membrane... who knows what youd get.


Slug Toy, you're a walking wikipedia. It amazes me the stuff you can come out with.

meh, i apply knowledge well. just dont ask me to write a test, i always screw those up real good. its not that i suck at theoretical stuff... i just suck at school and tests. im always arguing with teachers about why im right... and why gravity really isnt that important. get me out of a class room though, and thats when i start to shine.

id say the biggest reason i know a lot is because i have a reasonable background in every science. when you take courses in everything, you start to see how biology depends on chemistry, and chemistry depends on the physics of atoms, and physics depends on math, and math is an art form. and then things like engineering, cancer, and experimental weaponry seem very interesting and not too hard to understand.

[archmaille]

Don't laugh..

A moth that keeps flying around :(

Man im so ****ing scared of these things. especially the big ones, and the really big ones. the one in my room now is about 2 inches long :'( its so disgusting the way it flys and has a icky body >_< everytime it gets near me i throw my laptop on the floor and have to run out of my room with a pillow >_< i must look like such a tit.

anyone kno how to get rid of them other than swinging cowardly at them with pillows?

They're easy to get rid of... Get a cat!!! :D My cat (Snickers the warrior kitten) loves killing moths, well any bug for that matter she loves summer time when she can hunt bugs around the house.

[nil8]

Really dumb dogs eat bugs too.
I love dogs. Love the big ones. An old friend of mine has 2 that I am a godparent too. I like wrestling with them both. Full size hounds. Beautiful happy dogs.
http://www.ifhd.net/assets/images/Redbone_Coon_Hound_8.jpg
Basically what they both look like. One is red, one is black.

As for the link between sciences, that applies socially too. If you spend a lot of time looking at the parallels between philosophy, sociology and psychology it is rather interesting and to separate them removes some of the noticed influence. Strange, but fascinating. One of the ways I enjoy wasting my time.

[CanaBalistic]

RECEPTOR PROTEINS extend through the cell membrane. As the communication office of the cell, they allow the cell to interact with other cells. The part of the receptor protein on the exterior of the cell surface binds to a molecule. This causes the portion of the protein on the inside of the cell to change shape, triggering a reaction within the cell. The specificity of receptor proteins allow the cell to respond to the outside environment in many different ways.
MARKER PROTEINS are like nametags that identify the cell to other cells. Each organism has its own unique marker proteins on its membranes. One of the functions of marker proteins is to enable a person's immune system to distinguish its cells from those of invading cells.
TRANSPORT PROTEINS are responsible for shipping and receiving. They move materials in and out of the cell. Some of them function as pores that allow substances to diffuse through the membrane. Others act as pumps that use energy to pull molecules across the membrane, a process called as ACTIVE TRANSPORT.

A receptor is a dock on the surface of the membrane
peptides are molecules which dock on the receptors. So are antibodies.

I think there is another reason why your grades are poor.... :D

On Topic:
I ran into about 20 spiders at work today. Nothing special but i was keeping an eye out for the deadly violin ;)

[Slug Toy]

no no, trust me. theres no such thing as binding molecules to the surface of a cell in the way that you're describing.

the receptor proteins that you have specified ARE transport proteins (they are the receiving stage of transport). how do i know?


This causes the portion of the protein on the inside of the cell to change shape

in this case we are talking about passive transport because the incoming molecule causes the deformation, and there is no energy required. the whole mechanism is driven by polarities and hydrogen bonds.

that whole quote you have is kind of misleading. there is no "interaction" in that sense of the word. sure, proteins allow cell recognition (for macrophages) but a skin cell cant tell another skin cell how to act just by presenting these proteins. the "interaction" is more like a reaction... the receptor proteins react to the molecule they are designed to transport (hence specificity). this CAN allow molecules to pass from one cell to another, but this isnt an intended effect (it is much easier to transfer sugars and proteins through plasmodesmata... little tunnels that link animal cells).

clear as mud on this now?


now... onelegout... find me that spider!!!!

[DaveW]

experimental weaponry seem very interesting

Should i worry about this line?

Anyway, as interesting...and confusing...as this debate is, please keep it a debate, and not an argument folks ;) (Not that anyone's out of line, just forewarning)

-Dave

[Razors Edge]

Don't laugh..

I had to

[Slug Toy]

Should i worry about this line?

nah, you dont need to worry about my destructive tendencies. my next door neighbours and insurance companies should worry.