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triton
03-16-2005, 10:48 PM
Hi,

I have been working in the IT industry for more than 10+ years, and have stumbled over the world of PC modding, and would like a general consensus on the future of PC Modding, and possible business careers for aspiring builders.

Tell me what you're thoughts :)

Thanks.

Chapel
03-17-2005, 12:21 PM
I feel that the modding community will continue to grow with time. As for making money at it all, i think that would be much tougher. Since the whole point of modding is to create your own work i think that there will never be much of a pre-fab modded box market. Although I do see a lot of potential in mod sales and the sales of parts. There are already pleanty of modding sales sites out there, but one more could never hurt.

triton
03-17-2005, 11:15 PM
I agree, modding is through individual preference, but not everyone has the time to mod, or even build their own PC's. Ergo, the rise of DELL, IBM, etc etc :) But yes, alot of sites are popping up now selling modding supplies which is great. This is how I came to realize the growing popularity of Mods.

Thanks for the response, Chapel :)

Triton

427
03-20-2005, 03:58 PM
Well, just look at any auto modding. That has grown hugely within years and now people are starting to pay to have their Ricers modded for them! I think the same might happen with computers.
As far as where and when...Nobody knows. All I know is that a Cyber Cafe with a "mod bar" in it would be cool (so instead of drinks ordered to your liking you throw down a little cash and you get a comp made to your taste). Just an idea.....:)

Seven
03-20-2005, 05:34 PM
I see computers becoming much more personalized in the future.

I have to disagree on the point that modding will become mainstream. Most people know only of Dell and AOL. However, if Dell started computers geared towards specific demographics, then maybe some families would be interested.

For example, a Pink/White mITX box for their teenage girl with her name on it would fit perfectly for her, and would make an awesome christmas present.

It just takes the OEMs to do it.

7

Chapel
03-21-2005, 02:03 PM
It seems like people tend to go exreams. Most people really dont care, just soething that looks easy on the eyes (eg. dell, ibm, apple; and there trendy designs). And then it seems you have people that want a badass case with a badass system (eg. Voodoo, Alienware, Falcon NW). Though i wonder if someone could make money just selling aftermarket cases that were modded for people to put their own parts in. Ebay? i guess.... couldnt hurt;)

jonopaul01
03-21-2005, 06:04 PM
Well I think that Chapel made two very important points. The look of a nice looking computer really falls into two sections. Those that are easy to look at and cases which can only be described as cool. I would love to own a G5 as they look very nice, with clean lines and above all take up next to no space on the desk, (How do they fit a entire computer in there?) which all adds up to a wonderful computer for all. I would get one if not for the price. However on the other side of the market there is an Alienware. Just say the word Alienware and you automatically think quality, power, beauty (after a fashion) and price. In fact one of my friends has an Alienware and he likes to show it off to me whenever he can. And to tell you the truth I am really quite jealous of his case (but at least I can figure out how to open my computer up, he has never figured out how to get into his Alien). Both of these designs are very popular but for very different reasons. In fact they are almost opposites. The G5 is unobtrusive, clean and you could almost miss it if you weren't careful while the Alien ware is big, loud and completely unmissable. I would love to have both if I could but I never will.

JesDer
03-23-2005, 01:07 AM
Future of modding ...

In order to predict where it is going, you really need to take a step back and look at it's history so far. A few years back, modding was something that really not many people dared to do. Most mods where more function than form. I remember installing a large fan to the back of a PC to help suck the hot air out of it. At the time the internet was not even invented yet. Some people at that time also did some artistic mods like painting, but nothing too extreme. Sometime about 6-8 years ago, the hardware community sites started taking shape and with it, people started showing off their simple mods. It didn't take long for communities to grow around modding and well human nature took over. People started to try to outdo each other and the mods got more complex and more artistic. The size of the new communities start to hit the point where there was a target market for modding supplies. This is when some of the older modder supply sites started. At the time I honestly didn't think the market was ready, but it was and soon many people started targeting modders. It didn't take long for manufacturers to start mass producing products designed around this new communities ideas (this is when color PCBs also started showing up). Once that happened, some of the larger retailers took notice. This is basically where we are today. Right now the smaller supply stores are losing a large amount of ground to the NewEggs out there. What does seem to be picking up is custom cases as more of artwork than PCs. Right now the market for them is low due to the high cost. The main cost issue is the amount of time it takes someone like CrimsonSky to produce his works of art. The functional mods are covered very well by the high volume manufacturers and so the only way to make anything from modding is to either find someone willing to pay you for modding a single case, or to invent the next big thing and patent it. The other option is to mod and hope you win contests :)

There is also the whole area of writing for a publication or running a website. Both are not easy to make money at.


Umm .. I really could go on about where I think Modding will go, but I could end up writing a very long post about it and I don't feel like it at this time.

Seven
03-23-2005, 01:50 AM
^^
Agreed.

Eventually, I believe there may be a schism between the JoeSixpack computer using community and the DexterModder computer enthusiast.

JoeSixpack couldn't care less what color his PCB is, while Dexter uses it as a point in buying his components.

I really do believe that if Linux becomes compatible and easy enough for everyone, we may see a big big divide in users. Imagine if half the world was using windows, and the other enthusiast half Linux. I believe it will happen, and with it, the divide between computer users.

I think the OEMs will stick to their guns, still selling bland PCs to those who want Windows and AOL pretty much, and a more decentralized group will sell more unique PCs to the rest custom tailored how they like.

In the future, buying a PC will be like buying a suit.

When you walk into 3 day suit broker, they don't just hand you a suit and ask for your credit card. They take the time and effort to have you try the suit on, have it tailored to fit you perfectly, and to find perfect matches for everything. In the future, I believe PCs will be "tailored" for the customer. We may not see the "pick the processor that sounds the nicest to you" option, but instead a very detailed and intricate poll before regular users go to buy their PC. I believe custom orders will take hold among the more independent companies (Falcon NW, Alienware, Voodoo especially), and we may see PCs that are truly individial. Imagine if you could pick a case, pick a design, and have it laser cut as all part of your purchase. We're getting there, and Voodoo is leading the pack.

7

JesDer
03-23-2005, 02:10 AM
Imagine if you could pick a case, pick a design, and have it laser cut as all part of your purchase. We're getting there, and Voodoo is leading the pack.



Actually it has been done on a very small scale. The issue is still cost and market. The problem .. is laser cutting really enough? Honesltly if I was paying for a custom case, I dont think I would be happy with just a standard style case with a custom sidepanel. Modding has grown far beyond just cutting a design in a case. This isnt even taking the functional modders into consideration.

Have you ever priced out having a simple single part custom made from a machine shop? If not, I think you would be shocked to find out just how much custom work can be due to the setup time. Now, if you limit the customer's options then you can greatly reduce your design and setup costs. The trick is finding the happy medium.

Do I think that this type of service would be profitable rightnow? If someone can pull it off without having to charge $500 for a case, then yes I think there is enough demand for high quality work out there.

siege
03-23-2005, 02:20 AM
I think I may have somewhat of a different view on this. Some of you may remember maybe 6 or 7 years ago when modding first started becoming popular. Back then, the really "awesome" mods basically consisted of a window, some fans, interior lighting, and some buttons and switches - mods of the quality that CrimsonSky does were few and far between - they were just unreal to the crowd. So what happened? Manufacturers started picking up on this and started making us some cool stuff to work with - but, something else happened. Case manufacturers saw what we were doing and thought to themselves "hey, this is what they like, lets do it for them," and now I don't think I have seen 1 case at Fry's Electronics that is just a plain no-frills case. Everything has windows, lights, fans (ok, fans are always good), and weird designs to make them "cool" cases. Frankly I think most of whats out there now is just plain ugly - though most people say its cool because they haven't been exposed to this kind of thing for nearly as long so they think a window and green lights is freakin' awesome. I've actually resorted to saving old cases from the trash at work because plain cases are becoming scarce.

Anyway I think I'm off on a tangent a bit...But what is all this doing to the modding community? Well, forcing us to be more creative, which is a good thing. We are getting more full case makeovers now - no longer are we happy with a window and some fans. Will the case manufacturers ever go as far as we are now going? No way - too much time and money for not enough return. But I do think that mainstream case manufacturers are going to continue to make gaudy "futuristic" junk until the public gets sick of it. Then I think we may see a trend toward the "retro" simplistic cases (something I look forward to). I don't think the retro trend will affect modders though, we will always be more and more creative - I don't think the community will move back to the old days with just a window and some fans. OK I really don't know exactly where all that was going....

I don't think that PCs will be tailored to individuals at all in the future. I think the current trend of having a few models per brand to pick from, because you guys have to remember - the majority of PC users are not enthusiasts at all. They just want to check their email, play solitare, scan some photos, listen to music, etc. The fact of the matter is the majority of the computer using public just doesn't know or care. I think the extent of "personalizing" we will see is exactly what we have now...if you order a mac, dell, etc, online you can upgrade the processor, HD, ram, etc. It will never be profitable for a major company like Dell to offer personalized cases or anything like that.

I don't see the modding industry ever 'booming' or being extremely profitable. Sure a few companies are making decent money at it, but I don't think it will ever match the automotive market - not by a long shot.

I hope that makes sense, I'm never good at these long explanation things...

just my $0.02...

Crimson Sky
03-23-2005, 02:27 AM
Honestly I hope the future lies simply in people picking up some tools and working with their hands to create something cool with their computer--Working with your hands and creating even simple mods gives such a great feeling of accomplishment that any beginner can be proud of.

The future of modding is in helping the first-timers out with their projects; by lending a helping hand on the forums with positive feedback and constructive input.

wow there are some really good replies here--lol..I'm like.. ::shrivel::

JesDer
03-23-2005, 02:41 AM
Makes sense Siege

I remember all too well what it was like back before Modding became popular. I remember people telling me I could NEVER pull off my first Window (if you want to call it that) (http://www.jesder.com/lain/casenight1.jpg) ... mainly since no one had ever done anything but simple shapes before. I think the date on that file was sometime around 1998. Looking back, it looks so umm.. eeew :)



And Crimson ... My feelings exactly. I never liked the whole Pre-mod thing. You get so much more out of it by creating the case. Yet, I know some people dont care about that. Oh well, their loss.


BTW -
One big issue with custom cases ... While I have not done much research into this, it seems you could get into trouble with the FCC for selling an untested computer. FCC Part 15, Subpart J, Class B covers home and office computers. For this you need to have the system tested and the results submitted to the FCC, then can then make you send them a sample so they can run in house tests. Really I think this would only apply to complete systems.

Crimson Sky
03-23-2005, 02:47 AM
BTW -
One big issue with custom cases ... While I have not done much research into this, it seems you could get into trouble with the FCC for selling an untested computer. FCC Part 15, Subpart J, Class B covers home and office computers. For this you need to have the system tested and the results submitted to the FCC, then can then make you send them a sample so they can run in house tests. Really I think this would only apply to complete systems.


Hahaha! Come and get me FCC Coppers! :D

Wow if this law was enforced a good lot of mom/pop pc stores would be in trouble.

JesDer
03-23-2005, 02:57 AM
Hahaha! Come and get me FCC Coppers! :D

Wow if this law was enforced a good lot of mom/pop pc stores would be in trouble.

As long as the mom and pops are not building custom cases, they could not get into trouble. That is, if I am reading this right. :)

http://www.part-15.org/fcc/part15/15-101.htm

I hate reading this stuff ... makes my head hurt.

Really the FCC doesn't care much about this type of stuff unless someone complains that your device is causing problems. Even then, sometimes they dont care :)

CompChopper
03-23-2005, 11:18 AM
Hahaha! Come and get me FCC Coppers! :D

Wow if this law was enforced a good lot of mom/pop pc stores would be in trouble.


Yes yes, bring it :D :banana2:

fishies
03-23-2005, 01:16 PM
Honestly I hope the future lies simply in people picking up some tools and working with their hands to create something cool with their computer--Working with your hands and creating even simple mods gives such a great feeling of accomplishment that any beginner can be proud of.

The future of modding is in helping the first-timers out with their projects; by lending a helping hand on the forums with positive feedback and constructive input.

Agreed.

I do think that modding will turn to uncnventional cases even more. Sure the taster PC is cool, but a toilet PC, that is functional (in both respects) is where things will go. Convert your house into the ultimate computer case, though I have seen this before, will become larger.

Lights and switches are always fun, and tech for those alone is likely to change as well.

siege
03-23-2005, 08:25 PM
Honestly I hope the future lies simply in people picking up some tools and working with their hands to create something cool with their computer--Working with your hands and creating even simple mods gives such a great feeling of accomplishment that any beginner can be proud of.


This actually brings something to mind that I thought of last night after I made my other post...

In my mind, a truly 'personalized' case doesn't have to have a lot of bells and whistles and all sorts of crazy stuff. It can be quite simple really. But the only thing it has to be is PERSONAL. In otherwords, I don't see an off-the-shelf case as 'personalized.' It's just like new cars really. People have been putting on body kits to personalize their rides, now they doing it from the factory, so its not very personal now is it? For something to be personal, you have to do it yourself (ok some stuff some people can't do themselves, but their ideas and personal touches will work). Which reminds me of a quote from 'The Incredibles,' which I just saw for the first time the other night (good flick, btw), which in a nutshell said that it everyone was "super" then no one would be. I find this true of the mainstream 'personalization' we're seeing today...

Gordy
03-24-2005, 05:10 AM
Modding has come a long way in the last few years, I remember back when putting a window in an aluminium case was shocking to most people hehe.

The cost of modding supplies has dropped so much and the coverage of it has increased so much that the modding audience is now quite massive. It can only be good for the hobby.

In terms of future, what I'm hoping for is for people to still come up with ground breaking mods which everyone likes. There are some talented people out there who have yet to get into it yet.

Oh and hello tis my first post here :D

altec
03-24-2005, 07:50 AM
I feel that the modding community will continue to grow with time. As for making money at it all, i think that would be much tougher. Since the whole point of modding is to create your own work i think that there will never be much of a pre-fab modded box market. Although I do see a lot of potential in mod sales and the sales of parts. There are already pleanty of modding sales sites out there, but one more could never hurt.


Ditto.

Frakk
03-25-2005, 12:54 PM
I think buying a premodded case is for ppl who are lazy to make their own or dont know the knowledge, but still want it to look good and show it off. There are ppl around who dont even know what each part does inside the computer, how they connect to eachother and all that, but they already have like 3 cold cathodes in the box to show it off. They will never mod anything because they dont know how and dont have the resources to do it, therefore they will always look for premodded stuff. Personally I dont like the look of alienwares and voodoos because I know that I can personalize my case the way I want and I dont have too look at someone else's style when I can look at mine. However when I shop for a case, I look at its potential to be modded and its layout.

Sky
03-25-2005, 03:17 PM
Honestly I hope the future lies simply in people picking up some tools and working with their hands to create something cool with their computer--Working with your hands and creating even simple mods gives such a great feeling of accomplishment that any beginner can be proud of.



I agree. At the same time I feel that most modding is an art. For a perfect example, take Paul's (Crimsonsky) work. Yes, he's a modder....but really Paul is an artist. As with all artists, it can be difficult (which I am sure he will agree) to get your work out there. Many will appreciate modding as an art and others will not. I believe that the future of modding is up to the artists AND the people that appreciate art.

As for making money, it depends what you want out of it. Most artists NEVER get the money they deserve for the amount of hours required to build and create a piece.

I think think the modding community has had tons of effects on PCs today. Common PC users see colorful computers in local BestBuys. I dont think we can rag on people that want a premod. No everyone is an artist, not everyone could afford to buy a PC like Paul designs, but everyone deserves to have a riteous looking box in their home.

mashie
03-25-2005, 10:29 PM
The future of modding, hmm, that is a good question really. For me it's about moving from modding to design and then to potential massproduction. For example right now I'm in the process of starting up production of a completely new kind of bay device. This is by the way the reason why I have not done any new mods since November. As for modding in general I think it will take two directions, one is to make artistic/theme cases like Crimson Sky and the other is to make ultra clean installations. With ultra clean installations I mean those who get <random aluminium case> adding watercooling, fans and lights and then do a killer job hiding the wires and tubes. I might go towards the latter in my future mods since maintaining/repairing custom cases is a royal pain, not to mention costly when you have to buy an XPC just to replace a motherboard for example.

Who knows, in a far distant future a computer purchase might be like buying a car. You sit down with a sales rep and select the colour and options from a glossy brochure. ;)

Gordy
03-26-2005, 07:15 AM
That second bit about the sales rep aint too far off mashie

As someone who's doing the modding to design to mass production steps as well its not easy is it :( Its taken over a year so far with a couple of months of work still to do :(

I remember chatting about the bay thing at that film shoot in birmingham hope its going well :)

mashie
03-26-2005, 11:19 AM
I would say it will take just under a year from starting to work on the idea to the delivery of the first batch which I expect to receive before the end of April. Then the really interesting part of the project will start...

Seven
03-27-2005, 01:36 AM
Who knows, in a far distant future a computer purchase might be like buying a car. You sit down with a sales rep and select the colour and options from a glossy brochure. ;)

Oh so true.

I think in the future, it might be easier for families to simply buy a small cluster type setup and put it in it's own room designed for it. People would connect with terminals and have their own sort of "system" running off it.

7

JesDer
03-27-2005, 11:51 AM
Far distant future ...

3D printers ... that is all I will say :)

mashie
03-27-2005, 01:49 PM
Far distant future ...

3D printers ... that is all I will say :)
Been there, done that ;)

Crimson Sky
03-27-2005, 03:09 PM
Been there, done that ;)


Pretty much in its infancy...3D printers of today are crude compared to what we might have 25 years from now :D

Matthew
03-27-2005, 07:15 PM
Who knows...we may order a pair of shoes offline and our printer may print them out for us...

mashie
03-28-2005, 10:44 AM
Pretty much in its infancy...3D printers of today are crude compared to what we might have 25 years from now :D
True, but I would be surprised if they manage to make a 3D printer that can do say a CPU within the coming 100 years. Within 25 years they might be able to make multilayer PCBs without problem but I doubt any components will be possible to make in the same process.

JesDer
03-28-2005, 11:51 AM
Nah .. I wasn't thinking that complex.

I was thinking more of case design. Open up CAD, design your case any way you want or download something someone else already created. Then just hit print. With the current tech, you could even put in some basic circuits. Really the tech just needs to get cheaper and then we will see this type of thing in the home. I have seen what some of the early 3D printers can do, and it is really cool.

ZeD
03-28-2005, 12:59 PM
printers that can create chips, PCBs, cases and sneakers are great and all but I'm not gonna be happy until I can request fettuccini alfredo and magically have a nice steaming bowl ready in 10 seconds. Once they make those I'll be all set. I have read about a resteraunt that makes eatable menu's, the paper is edible and the ink is made from like vegetable oils

Matthew
03-28-2005, 07:44 PM
That brings a whole new meaning to chillies.com...you pick what you want to eat...check out...and it prints it for you.

jyhad21
03-29-2005, 04:44 AM
I am a believer in the concept of only having a job/career if you truly enjoy it. That is why I am going to Art school. I have been switching back and forth between multimedia and industrial design. Computers will no doubt be part of my job/career/hobby and so will art/design. Case modding seems likethe perfect combination of the two. I have done minor modding on my pre-windowed case, and have tons of ideas for more casemods, I also have been modding Nerf guns lately, for function and form. Anyways. I am almost done with school and I find myself thinking about what the hell Im gonna do when I'm out. I want to make some killer case mods and I enjoy machining and model making and my conclusion is that a freelance model/prototype shop is the perfect place to work/play. If anyone else out there has made a move similar to this or works anyplace like a model/prototype shop, let me know what you know.

fishies
03-30-2005, 11:03 AM
printers that can create chips, PCBs, cases and sneakers are great and all but I'm not gonna be happy until I can request fettuccini alfredo and magically have a nice steaming bowl ready in 10 seconds. Once they make those I'll be all set. I have read about a resteraunt that makes eatable menu's, the paper is edible and the ink is made from like vegetable oils


What you want is a star trek replicator.

Funny thing is, so do I.

ZeD
03-31-2005, 05:20 AM
yep thats what I was thinking.

fishies
03-31-2005, 05:36 PM
When I finish building mine, you can commission me to build you one also.