for UK drivers!

[GT40_GearHead]

http://www.thisislondon.co.uk/news/article-23370879-details/Drivers+can+avoid+speeding+tickets...by+changing+l anes/article.do

what do you think of it

[DaveW]

Do you want feedback on the site or the article?

The site is nice, the article is well written and presented.

-Dave

[GT40_GearHead]

i am asking you guys what you think about the thing with the cameras

[DaveW]

Oh. Well, i think the whole speed camera system sucks ass. A third of all tickets issued are sucessfully appealed against-and the cost of those court cases far outweighs any other cost.

-Dave

[GT40_GearHead]

do you agree that they do more harm than good

except for the huge sum of money that goes to the goverment, wich is why i think they made this in first place

[DaveW]

That's what i'm saying. The government actually loses money with the current system, as they have to pay to defend themselves in court, and lose constantly. Your average fine is what, £60? And a day in court costs a couple of grand. Now, if a third of all speeding fines are succesfully appealed against...that leaves the governement over a grand out of pocket for every 3 speeders.

That's why the government is steering away from cameras altogether-these signs that tell you your speed are more effective and MUCH cheaper.

-Dave

[GT40_GearHead]

these signs that tell you your speed are more effective and MUCH cheaper.


that is the smartest thing i have heard in great deal of time,
i wonder what the road- police had to say about the cameras, after all it says in the article that the patrols droped by some %

[Airbozo]

The only cameras I have seen in use in norcal, are used only for red-light runners. If they want to give you an auto-ticket they have to use one of the radar detector trailers that show the posted speed and your speed. Most of the places I have seen don't even use them to issue tickets (since they also get defeated in court the majority of the time), they only use them to guilt you into slowing down.

[simon275]

The Cameras in Australia just have a radar and if you are going over the limit bang the flash goes off and ticket simple as that. They are signposted to so most people slow down then speed up again. They have allways worked. We only have distance to speed comparsion systems on the freeways. Most of the money the cops make from speeding here is from police setting up and hiding in bushes with laser speed guns.

Also do you allow systems to be installed because you can get licsense plate covers hear which are sought of in a gray area of the law. Yes the plates can be easily seen except they get obscured when the flash goes off.

[GT40_GearHead]

you can get licsense plate covers hear which are sought of in a gray area of the law. Yes the plates can be easily seen except they get obscured when the flash goes off.

i have heard of a thing like that but now i see its real

[Airbozo]

i have heard of a thing like that but now i see its real

They also have some that defract the laser signal from the cops gun so they cannot ping you off your plates.

[GT40_GearHead]

if thye want to reduce speed related acidents, why dont they introduce speed training, why dont they stop using steel and concreet in guard rails, and start puting in energy absorbant materials in them, why dont they raise the age limit for geting a drivers licence....

did you know that most bikers that fall get killed by the guard rail

[Airbozo]

if thye want to reduce speed related acidents, why dont they introduce speed training, why dont they stop using steel and concreet in guard rails, and start puting in energy absorbant materials in them, why dont they raise the age limit for geting a drivers licence....

did you know that most bikers that fall get killed by the guard rail

I like my wife's idea: Think NERF car... Anything that _may_ come into contact with a vehicle should also be made of NERF material.

I like the speed training idea too. In order to move over and use the leftmost(in the US anyway) lane, it should be mandatory to take the high speed training, otherwise you are limited to the slow lanes on the freeway and city streets.

Here in California, it is legal for Motorcyclists to "share lanes". You can legally drive between the cars as long as you obey the normal road rules and a few extra safety rules, such as not exceeding 10mph over the lane you are in. You cannot ride the lane markers nor constantly switch lanes, and I have even seen a chp officer giving a ticket for not using a signal when changing lanes while you are splitting them.

[GT40_GearHead]

NERF car...
.......
what is NERF material

[DaveW]

I think they mean like soft foam from a NERF gun. It's a kids toy.

-Dave

[Airbozo]

.......
what is NERF material

It is a soft foam material that is light and retains it's shape. Originally used in nerf footballs and darts that could be played with indoors since it is soft enough not to break everything it comes into sudden contact with.

Were you even a kid?:think: hehe JK!:lick:

http://www.answers.com/topic/nerf

[CanaBalistic]

Here's a thought no one has even hinted on...

If the maximum limit for the entire Country (Canada for example) is 100km/h, why make a car that exceed's that limit? Every car in Canada is capable of surpassing the maximum speed limit by at least 50km/h. This and this fact alone is the only reason people die from speed related accidents...

Would you need to spend all that money to catch speeders if they cant speed in the first place?

Think about it; I did.

[GT40_GearHead]

i cant agree with you on this one Cana-Balsitic,

lets say your mobo goes dead, you take to the store you got it from, and the says "well you use it to damn much"

its the same thing here

the driving school program is retarded, this is in my opinion the leading cause of car accidents...

they teach you to park, and a few other rules, but nobody is teaching you to corect oversteer/understeer, to brake the right way,

some of you may tell me that this is for the racing track,
but what do you do if your doing 90km/h, you start to overtake some one and your backend starts to swing.... not knowing what to do there is a big possibility that you will end up in the ditch

[Airbozo]

i cant agree with you on this one Cana-Balsitic,

lets say your mobo goes dead, you take to the store you got it from, and the says "well you use it to damn much"

its the same thing here

the driving school program is retarded, this is in my opinion the leading cause of car accidents...

they teach you to park, and a few other rules, but nobody is teaching you to corect oversteer/understeer, to brake the right way,

some of you may tell me that this is for the racing track,
but what do you do if your doing 90km/h, you start to overtake some one and your backend starts to swing.... not knowing what to do there is a big possibility that you will end up in the ditch

Very good point. Yes here in the US they do teach you some of the _basic_ recovery techniques like turning into skids, but that is so generic as to be almost useless.

In california, (as in other states I would guess), there is a motorcycle saftey class that is put on by the highway patrol. If you are under 18 it is a mandatory class to get your motorcycle license, but optional for those above 18. In the class they teach you how to avoid highgsides, what to do if you start skidding and the correct procedures for braking and avoiding obstacles (and how _not_ to become one yourself). The added benefit of the class is not having to take the driving portion of the DMV test and your insurance compaqny will lower your rates (more than paying for the class in the first 6 months).

Even though I had been riding motorcycles for more than 20 years I learned alot in that class and it made me a better rider and driver. I was even able to utilize the skills I learned about 2 years later as my bike slipped out from under me in a corner due to a fuel spill. That class saved me from some nasty and possibly permanant damage to my head and legs... I think that class should be mandatory for everyone and there should be something like it for people driving cars. I still shudder when I watch the kids around here riding crotch rockets in tank tops and shorts.:hurt: :dead:

As to the speed limitation on a car, I have been in a couple of situations that the extra speed from my car actually prevented an accident since I was able to accelerate around the offending incedent. Without that extra oomph, I would probably have made a trip to the hospital. I do like the idea of a proposal that came out many years ago to have a device built into the ignition system that would allow law enforcement officials to remotely disable your car. That would all but eliminate car chases, but the downside would be if someone with ill or malistic intent were to get a hold of the device.

[ajmilton]

I do like the idea of a proposal that came out many years ago to have a device built into the ignition system that would allow law enforcement officials to remotely disable your car. That would all but eliminate car chases, but the downside would be if someone with ill or malistic intent were to get a hold of the device.

yeah, i'd rather my car not be hackable :P that could easily ruin my day

[DaveW]

You can get speed caps in some European cars. It doesn't affect the acceleration of the car at all, i know that much: but when the car reaches a certain speed, i think the accelerator locks out or something, preventing you from going faster.

For some reason, a lot of imported cars in the UK have their speed locked at something like 110mph.


That would all but eliminate car chases,

All for this, i think i was involved in a car chase the other day, but i didn't stick around long enough to find out. I heard sirens, and a white van tried to cut in between me and the car behind me, into a space about 1 inch bigger than the van. I thought he had hit me at the time, but as soon as i realised he hadn't, i accelerated away-speeding fine be damned-and the vun cut across 2 lanes at 70mph up a slip road. Believe me, when you're one of the guys on the road in those situations, you really don't know what's happening, and all you can think is "Get me the hell out of here!"

-Dave

[klingelton]

everyone is missing the point here, alot of speed cameras here in the uk are not on motorways but "blackspots" and also places where people speed, whether by accident or on purpose (it's been known to put speed cameras on hills where people creep over the limit just to get a few pennies). placing a limiter on the car (which works by limiting revs so the acceleration would be compromised too) would be ineffective in these areas as the limit of the car far exceeds the imposed limit of the surroundings.

my proposal would be:-
alot of people now have sat nav, if not sat nav, then they have trackers fitted to their cars which can monitor the speed of the vehicle. (a friend of mine has this on his company car)

if they can monitor the speed this way, then they could, in effect, do it on alot of cars for more or less the same cost as maintaining GATSO's.

tickets could be issued after warnings - repeat offenders get points on their license and hey presto, much safer roads. also you could track people's acceleration with this meathod. if you accelerate too hard, you get a warning etc.

personally i think this system would be better trialed with people who have been caught for speeding in the past, they'd be far less likely to speed if they knew big brother was constantly watching!

[ajmilton]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Governor_%28device%29

i guess i'm just turning into the link-man around here :p

lots of cars have governors on 'em, it's presumably based on national regulation...i doubt that you find many speed-governed cars in germany, for instance. it'd make the Autobahn a lot less fun.

[CanaBalistic]

I seen somthing on the news last night about drunk drivers. Apparently Manitoba has the lowest amount of impared drivers on the road. This is because they've adopted a new way to fight the problem. If your caught driving drunk, typically you'd get a warning or a suspension of your licence and after a few offences, you'd loose your licence for good. The way Manitoba has it set up is that you get one warning by means of a suspension. Anything after that and they will take whatever vehicle your driving and you dont get it back, no matter what.


Another note about the fine situation: I believe fines should be based off a percentage of your income. This would make a fine just as much of an inconvience to the rich as it is to the poor. A millionaire who drives around in a Lotus probly could care less if he gets a $200 speeding ticket. However, to the poor, a $200 ticket could be more than half of a pay cheque. Making it a huge deal which could cause them to possibly loose thier house(renters). I think a better method would be to charge a certin percentage of the offenders fiscal income for the previous year based on income tax or somthing simmilar.

[GT40_GearHead]

fines should be based off a percentage of your income

you hit the nail on the head an this one

they should adopt this, as for the drunk drivers, in my opinion they should be shot, a man who doesn't gives a **** an the lifes of the people around him, does not desirve to live

[klingelton]

where's nokia based, aint it norway or somewhere. anyways one of those countries has a percentage system, that's where the owner of nokia mobile phones had to pay the biggest speeding ticket ever issued!

[klingelton]

oops, double post but i thought of a new thing.

im my experience, the people who speed the most are those from less priviliged backgrounds, meaning if they're on the dole, (job seekers allowance if you're being PC) you'd probably get your speeding tickets paid for you by the local council (they get everything else paid for em) and the people that have actually worked for their money would have to pay extortionate amounts. A prime example of this is the council tax system that's currently being proposed. They're stating that they're going to offer council tax on a means tested basis. the bigger your house, the more tax you pay. basically rob from the rich and give to the poor (who again don't need to pay council tax because the government pay it for them)

I worked as a bar person for 2 years, earning below the minimum wage (there's a way around paying mimnimum wage, it's worked by the hour, not salaried, so you simply give your staff less hours) and was still expected to pay full council tax, tv licence, electricity bills, gas, rent, car tax, insurance and any tickets i picked up. I needed perpertual help from my parents in order to pay my monthly bills. then a friend lost his job and went onto benefits for 4 months. he got £88 every 2 weeks "spending money" he got his rent paid for him, council tax and something towards his bills. absolutely rediculous!!

[GT40_GearHead]

just back up what we where talking about

Driving Kills, Not speed (http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,2-2379124,00.html#cid=OTC-RSS&attr=Britain)