Terrorist Tshirt

[Airbozo]

Anyone see this yet? A bit off color, but funny!

:twisted:

http://www.freewebs.com/ttshirt/

[Razors Edge]

Easiest way to make it to the news. Just wear it to school! You're spot on the FBI's most wanted list will land you next to the great Bin Laden himself.

[public_eyesore]

that's awesome

[Zephik]

Wearing that would be like supporting terrorism. If I saw a person wearing that I would beat him into a heap of pulp. Even as a halloween costume. That is just dumb.

We should be fighting terrorism and supporting those who suffer from it. Not wearing novelties. Unless of course they are anti terrorist novelties. Nothing wrong with that.

But that is just my opinion after all. You of course can have a different one I suppose.

-SF

[public_eyesore]

i still think it pretty damn funny, I know its rude, and I probably wouldn't waer it. But its just fun to laugh at

[Zephik]

Sorry, I just dont think terrorism is something to laugh at.

-SF

[AKA_RA]

its not supporting it, so calm down. if anything theyre mocking it. and you know why those terrorist bastards are so pissed off? they dont laugh. they culture is too uptight. i can almost gaurentee you that if they poked fun at one another more often theyd have less of an urge to blow the hell out of our country. and poor is not an excuse to not laugh. ever been to the bad parts of northern mexico? they may bot have good living conditions, they may be starving, but they dont let it get to them.
And SF, if you would beat someone up for what they wear, what makes you better than the terrorists?

[Zephik]

A. I am calm, Sorry if I came off as not. But now you know.
B. I am stating my opinion, dont like it? Tough.
C. You know nothing if you think you can get away with comparing me to a terrorist for saying that I would beat someone up for wearing a T Shirt that mocks something so serious as terrorism. You can get away with almost anything around me. But terrorism is serious. Its nothing to joke about. Even in a mockingly way. But of course. That is just my opinion.

-SF

[tybrenis]

I'm going to have to settle with SnowFire 100%.

Terrorism isn't funny. Period. There isn't a single funny thing about it. I don't care if your mocking terrorism, terrorism isn't something to laugh about. And don't take this as a personal attack, but I don't think terrorists do some of the things they do because they don't "poke fun at each other once in a while".

I also would probably beat someone up for wearing this shirt. Sure, you can say, would you really beat someone up for what they wear? Usually, no. I'm very much all about individuality. But in the case of mocking or supporting terrorism, no.

For wearing something different? No. I won't beat you up. For supporting or even mocking terrorism? You'd better run.

[AKA_RA]

I completely respect that fact that you each take such a strong stand on that. I'm not goingto debate whats right or wrong, cuz its your opinion. People are entitled to their own, mine just happens to be differant. so lets leave it at that and go mod. Agreed? ^_^

[CanaBalistic]

What if i believe that wearing a **** like that is ok? You'r saying, you'd beat me down because you think what im doing/wearing is wrong? And you think your better than a terrorist? What happened to freedom of speach? I for one think anything can be funny if its delevered right.

Thoes views of yours, makes you a terrorist. Even though you'll disagree, hurting soming because of what they wear is an idiotic and self demeaning act of terror...

I used to respect you...

[AKA_RA]

Now thats an opinion I agree with. Down with hate!

[Airbozo]

Didn't mean to piss anyone off. Violence is never a good thing especially over a clothing item. Terrorism is not funny, but I didn't see the shirt as promoting terrorism. Humor is a good quality and I agree with AKA_RA that extremists (of all religions) would be better off with a few jokes than with a few guns or bombs.

I think the term terrorist is way over used to describe someone with an axe to grind with society (or someone that needs a little deprogramming (mental or religous))

I personally would not wear it, but would giggle instead of resort to violence. Just like someone with a 12" green mohawk they are only looking for attention.

[GT40_GearHead]

a thought this is a great way to make fun of them (terrorists)

this does not mean i ignore the phenomenon, but i have no respect for the people behind it, so i see no reason not to make fun of them

[DaveW]

What if i believe that wearing a **** like that is ok? You'r saying, you'd beat me down because you think what im doing/wearing is wrong? And you think your better than a terrorist? What happened to freedom of speach? I for one think anything can be funny if its delevered right.

Thoes views of yours, makes you a terrorist. Even though you'll disagree, hurting soming because of what they wear is an idiotic and self demeaning act of terror...

I used to respect you...

Now THAT is what i call a valid point.

I don't mean this as an offence to Americans, but do any of you realise what effect your "Hardline on Terrorism" approach has on the rest of the world? What happened to the Danish when those comics were published? You're saying you'd do the same to anyone who poked fun at Terrorism?

-Dave

[tybrenis]

Look,

I didn't mean the comment about beating someone down, it'd sure piss me off, but I am the last person to do that - I'm very much supportive of freedom of speech.

I understand the humor in it, but things like that just can't make me laugh. To me it just seems disrespectful, especially with 911 in America, as well as thousands of other innocent lives claimed around the world every month. I's not right. No more is it funny than rascist or sexist jokes.

Laugh at what you want, I personally am just taking a stand for what I believe in.

[gaz_the_chav]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/4287446.stm

So what do you think of these t-shirts then designed by the legendery Vivienne Westwood?

They have the slogan 'I am not a terrorist. Please don't arrest me'

Are these t-shirts a sin or can they be acceptted in society?

-gaz

[Crimson Sky]

Freedom of Speech and Bad Taste are often caught in bed with one another, and one of them is usually getting reamed.

Is it a T-Shirt meant to spark tongue-in-cheek good humor?. Probably, but it's my guess it was designed to stir controversy and nothing else.

Do I find it offensive? Yes I do. Not enough to beat someone senseless in the street, but wearing this shirt will not get you invited to my home for a nice hot homemade meal to discuss over fine cigars and scotch whiskey by the fire afterwards the Bill of Rights.

It might however get you into a rockin' dorm blowout party where your drunken peers who have never witnessed the horrors of terrorism and think they will live forever will say: "Dude..thats not right..but I love it!!"

[DaveW]

Look,

I didn't mean the comment about beating someone down, it'd sure piss me off, but I am the last person to do that - I'm very much supportive of freedom of speech.

I understand the humor in it, but things like that just can't make me laugh. To me it just seems disrespectful, especially with 911 in America, as well as thousands of other innocent lives claimed around the world every month. I's not right. No more is it funny than rascist or sexist jokes.

Laugh at what you want, I personally am just taking a stand for what I believe in.

No-one's denying you the right to believe what you want. The line is when you start trying to force the world to see things your way. Who crosses this line? Terrorists, religeous extremists, racists, sexists, homophobes...people who stop other people from being free.

(this next bit isn't aimed at anyone i know, at any group, orgonisation, or religeon: almost the whole planet is guilty of this.)

If what you believe is that your opinion allows you to cross that line, and to force other people into your way of thinking, or infringing on their own personal rights, then i think you're the problem with the world today, it's your fault that there's things like global warming and war.

What i'm saying is simple: if you smoke, you're allowed to. But why should everyone around you have to? Again, if you want to drive a big huge car, that's fine with me. But why should tommorow's children put up with global warming because you religeously claim that any alternative to petrol infringes your freedom?

In conclusion, don't threaten someone because they made a joke you didn't like. In bad taste you may claim, but it's a completely different situation than threatening smoeone for being different. At the end of the day, is it really any different from threatening someone for being gay, or being black?


So what do you think of these t-shirts then designed by the legendery Vivienne Westwood?

They have the slogan 'I am not a terrorist. Please don't arrest me'

Are these t-shirts a sin or can they be acceptted in society?

Interesting question gaz...i think these T-shirts are probably just designed as harmless fun, in the same way that certain comics were. Any wearer would have to be aware that some people, like Americans or Iraqis, would find these in extremily bad taste and offensive. But they don't have a right to tell you to stop wearing them. You won't make any friends wearing them though.

I'd also like to point out before i finish that there is a difference between accidental offense and intended offence. I doubt either of these T-shirts are intended for more than harmless fun. If, on the other hand, they said "American pigs must all be killed", then these would be deliberately offensive, and I would consider that a threat or a provocation.

-Dave

[gaz_the_chav]

Following what I said :


Launched to raise money for human rights group Liberty, the group says the tops are trying to draw attention to government proposals to create new terrorism offences and to allow three months' detention without charge.

These t-shirts had a reason. To protect the inosence of people who can be arrested and detained for 3 MONTHS. Atleast this is what Vivienne Westwood has said but considering they are being sold as a designer product for £75 in my local Vivienne Westwood shop (I live right next to Boheme - a Vivienne Westwood Stockist) I don't really understand how this is going to be effective. People buy a t-shirt for £75 which goes into Vivienne Westwood's pocket to say 'I am against this new law.'

This world is silly now and I don't personally see it turning back.

-gaz

[Ironcat]

I am an American who served my time in the military, where the people that actually fight and die for our free speech do not have that luxury and I see it like this...

Any time you use the words "free speech" to do something inflammatory, you get what you got coming... whether that be lauds and accolades or a smack in the back of the head.

It's like watching an American burn the American flag. As an American I wholeheartedly support your freedom and RIGHT to burn that flag. it's what our ancestors, grandparents, parents, and some of us have fought for.
But... as an American... after I tell you how much I wholeheartedly support your RIGHT to do what you just did... I'm gonna beat your ass for doing it.

[gaz_the_chav]

On a lighter note of haloween,

http://i39.photobucket.com/albums/e160/russdj/HalloweenCostume.jpg

-gaz

[Airbozo]

Freedom of Speech and Bad Taste are often caught in bed with one another, and one of them is usually getting reamed.

Is it a T-Shirt meant to spark tongue-in-cheek good humor?. Probably, but it's my guess it was designed to stir controversy and nothing else.

Do I find it offensive? Yes I do. Not enough to beat someone senseless in the street, but wearing this shirt will not get you invited to my home for a nice hot homemade meal to discuss over fine cigars and scotch whiskey by the fire afterwards the Bill of Rights.

It might however get you into a rockin' dorm blowout party where your drunken peers who have never witnessed the horrors of terrorism and think they will live forever will say: "Dude..thats not right..but I love it!!"

Damn, I don't think I could have said it better. That is the problem with freedom. Rarely do you see freedom and responsibility in the same conversation. One is nothing without the other. Sure we in america have freedom of speech but almost no-one preaches "responsibility of speech". Thinking out the long term affects of your actions _should_ be the temper to that action. People just don't seem to think that way though.

Crimson, I would gladly pass up that dorm rager if you are serving up a single malt!

Ironcat: I too served time in the military, in a situation that got me shot at several times, and we were not allowed to shoot back (and the one time we did we became the rescuers of those who shot at us). You will never hear of my friends deaths nor suffering and they were not celebrated or supported. Nor will their families ever know the cause or location of their deaths. It is that experience that made me feel the way you do about things like flag burning. I would be the first one to support the right for you to burn that flag and the first one to admonish you for it. I do however feel that the _true_ old glory is in our hearts and minds, not hanging on some pole.



I am glad now that I posted this since it got a good conversation going and that was my intent.

[DaveW]

I think that's what i was trying to get at. Responsibility with freedom.


I am glad now that I posted this since it got a good conversation going and that was my intent.

Your right, this is a pretty insightful discussion.

-Dave

[Razors Edge]

Yeah, Differn't people have differn't opinions. Some of us don't give a **** enough to make a movie claiming terrorists didn't bomb the towers and bush did it. Some of us care enough to join ot military to hund down the alquida mother f*ckers.

Either way, no one has any right to say that some one else can't have a differn't opinion. These guys want to find humor in the terrorist attacks, they can. Nothing wrong with it. I wouldn't expect the government to be too happy about it but they have a right, and Anyone has a right to wear the damn shirt.

However if you lived in Turkey, If someone affends you in anyway, you can beat the **** out of them legally lmao. Whatever, Me, you could probabley find me wearing that ****, Not to piss people off, but im a teenager, i find it funny. If I did end up wearing that to school, just flip to channel 5 news, im sure you'll see me :)

[CanaBalistic]

I see almost all of you, with your hate filled eyes and thoughts towards the alquida and terrorists in general. The thing that i am most shocked over is the fact that none of you have asked why you (americans mostly) are the target of that hatred. Maybe its because you live such lavish lifestyles and cherish the allmighty dollar. All the while thies people and thier children starve and die from deases, poverty, and drought. Maybe its because north america has lost any sence of the word culture it once had. We the majority of the first world countries have the power and abillity to end world hunger and dease. We all, allways think of ourselfs and our pocket books as more important than a starving child, than building farms so people dont have to wage wars over food stocks. We all have this vision of equality in the world. That, more often than not means everyone below our selfs is equally "bad", "poor", "to blame".

If there is someone who hates you, you first have to think of "why do they hate me". Tragically we only think of how we can get even, how we can settle the score, how we can make our selfs hate thoes who hate us.

I am much more then i think i am, i can be much more even then that.
I can infulence my enviroment, the people, i can infulence space itself, i can influence the future.
I am responsible for all thoes things. i and the surround are not seprate they're part of one. im connected to it all. im not alone.

Have you ever seen yourself throught the eyes of someone else have you have become? what an anitiation. Have you ever stoped for a moment and looked at yourself throught the eyes of the ultimate observer?

We are the most greedy, fat, obscene, dirty sons of bitches on this overcrowded god forsaken piece of desolate rock. Lets be the vision of the future and a model society that the rest of the people who share this rock can aspire to be. Untill that happens, you have no right to cast thoughts of hate towards thoes who hate you.

[Razors Edge]

God does hate me. I wouldn't go far as god liking me.

I for one still think of american history. Its sort of a feeling I get, sort of like the world cup. When Im cheering for America (they suck in socca), I think why do I like america so much. I have no reason to stand behind america, Other then the fact that I live here, There is no more moral hope of this land. It turned into a place where people gamble, kill eachother over a few thousand dollars, and betray each other. All over money and power.


Compare that to African lives or Afghanistanians, 10 or 20 people worknig together at a stream, filling pots of water just so they have stuff to put on the table tonight. Countries where people still have to hunt there afternoon meal. A place where people still barter with baffalo hide. Place where the roads are only ment for horses.

We just go to our sinks for water, or buy a bottle of Poland Spring. We just go stop by Mcdonalds for an afternoon snack. We barter money for cheap electronics. Have enough money to blow thousands of dollars on cheap electronics where only purpose is to play a damn game on a screen.

This is land is run by fake christians, fake politions. Look at all there Mansions and then take a look at the conditions you live in. If another country envaded tonight, We wouldn't be fighting for America or Bush's "dream", We would be fighting for our people, survival and self esteem.

..............Ok im starting to sound gay. Just pick off wherever you guys where talking from. Im just trying to back up balistic here.


EDIT*- This is my official Watercooled post :)

[Ironcat]

Wow...

[Airbozo]

Cana: I don't have hate filled eyes for anyone. I understand (as much as any american can (which is not comparable I know)) the feelings of doom and gloom people can have when they have nothing. I also understand the weakness of the soul and mind under such conditions to want to see hope in a religion/cult/whatever that promises you everything you could want. I have compassion for those that would converse and barter and tollerate others (including any religous beliefs or lack there of). My compassion ends when overwhelming befliefs and ideals turn to murder and threat of pain and horrible deaths to force a lifestyle. But i still do not hate.

Don't blame me for their situation. I have busted my ass to pull myself out of the dredges of society, worked hard for every drop of water that comes out of my faucet (that I pay to maintain and be serviced), and the few luxuries I have are enjoyed with others. I believe that the reason we have all the amenities we have in the "western civilizations" is that we would stand for nothing less from our leaders. Once religion is taken out of running a country (at least in theory anyway), advancement and quality of life always follow.

I lay blame on the past and (sometimes) present leaders of Afghanistan, Iraq and Iran (although their culture is really close to what most Islamic countries would call western). The people that have been in power in those and other countries have used the people and resources of the place they rule to boost themselves up in the world. To provide for them and their families for many many years past and present.

I am not saying that consumerism is a better model of society either but it does help to feed some of those starving children and does help to provide shelter and clothing for refugees. I once read that for every dollar the us government spends feeding poor children in the us, it spends $1.25 to feed children in africa. The kid sees ~$0.25, ~$0.50 goes to getting the food/supplies/medical to the child and the rest goes to greedy warlords to fund thier militia as tarrifs. That does not count the money private citizens donate directly to charity organizations.

Does society in general (not just the u.s. in on that one), cherish money? Hell yeah. The dolar/pound/drachma/peso has made this world all it is, good and bad. The lifestyle you call lavish is what most people see on tv. America is not like that. But that is what most people judge this country by when that is the only thing they see of this country. Just like thinking that Iran is anything like Iraq and even believing that the people of Iran support their presidents ideals. That is like saying all americans support president shrub and wanted to invade Iraq.

I know I missed something

Whew, man I gotta go drink a cider...

[Indybird]

I definitely would not wear it...Thats the kind of thing where I see someone wearing it and go "Woah...Oh its just a T-Shirt, whatever." I don't think its funny but its is most definitely not supporting Terrorism.

[simon275]

One thing we should remember is who actually trained Osama and his mates to make bombs and use explosvies and terror tatics. The Americans did during the cold war so the Afgansanties would harrass the russians who where invading their country.

Also a lot of foregin powers messing around in the world have messed over some regions And there is only a small success rate of countries that when they become indepdent acutally survive and work.

While this has some merrit we also need to look at other sources of tension.

The thing about most stable countries is their is usually one major ethnic majority. With a single unifiying religon. While in Africa and the Middle east there is a melting pot off different ethnic cultures and religions and this creates a lot of tension. And so they can't agree on anything. This is not completly true though as evident in the USA.

One argumnet is countries are held together as they have lots of resources. That is true to some extent for example South Africa. But Sudan has lots of oil and thats a nightmare.

The thing that makes a country stable is good governmnet.

E.g. Singapore no natural resources its a giant swampy island that has being built on. Sure it is a good geogrpahic trading point but it is held together by good goverment.

And with freedom of speech you can say and do what you want as long as it doesnt harm others.

[nil8]

Lots of things have been said that I could spend the next half hour debating.
Instead, I will just say I found the shirt funny and I would laugh if I saw someone wearing it. Bad taste be damned.
Don't ever legislate morals.

An example was the South Park episode dealing with Mohammed. That episode addresses a lot of issues that aren't easy to solve. Religious observance, freedom of speech, political correctness and censorship.

These aren't easy things to discuss rationally and I don't think any Congress will represent me in any future I can imagine, much less make the decisions I think are correct.

As for the statement about beating people up in Turkey, I've been to Turkey and I've dated a girl from Izmir. That's completely false. You assault someone, you get arrested.

"And with freedom of speech you can say and do what you want as long as it doesnt harm others" - simon275(just caught my eye)

No. You can say what you want despite the fact that it might harm others. Speech doesn't kill. Idiots who can't change their world view kill.
Radical words lead to radical thoughts. Radical thoughts lead to radical actions. If people can't say what they think, then their being censored and censorship of any form is wrong.

I haven't seen the founding fathers mentioned, so I'll start it off with my favorite moldy radical idealist, Thomas Jefferson.

Not all of these are on our current topic, but they are some of my favorites and well worth the thought.

"Shake off all the fears of servile prejudices, under which weak minds are servilely crouched. Fix reason firmly in her seat, and call on her tribunal for every fact, every opinion. Question with boldness even the existence of a God; because, if there be one, he must more approve of the homage of reason than that of blindfolded fear."

"The will of the people is the only legitimate foundation of any government, and to protect its free expression should be our first object."

"We in America do not have government by the majority. We have government by the majority who participate."

"An honest man can feel no pleasure in the exercise of power over his fellow citizens."

"I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it."

"All tyranny needs to gain a foothold is for people of good conscience to remain silent."

"All, too, will bear in mind this sacred principle, that though the will of the majority is in all cases to prevail, that will to be rightful must be reasonable; that the minority possess their equal rights, which equal law must protect, and to violate would be oppression."

"Conquest is not in our principles. It is inconsistent with our government."

"Determine never to be idle. No person will have occasion to complain of the want of time who never loses any. It is wonderful how much may be done if we are always doing."

"Every generation needs a new revolution."

"Experience demands that man is the only animal which devours his own kind, for I can apply no milder term to the general prey of the rich on the poor."

"Experience hath shewn, that even under the best forms of government those entrusted with power have, in time, and by slow operations, perverted it into tyranny."

"History, in general, only informs us of what bad government is."

"I am mortified to be told that, in the United States of America, the sale of a book can become a subject of inquiry, and of criminal inquiry too."

"I do not find in orthodox Christianity one redeeming feature."

"I hope we shall crush in its birth the aristocracy of our monied corporations which dare already to challenge our government to a trial by strength, and bid defiance to the laws of our country."

"I predict future happiness for Americans if they can prevent the government from wasting the labors of the people under the pretense of taking care of them."

"I was bold in the pursuit of knowledge, never fearing to follow truth and reason to whatever results they led, and bearding every authority which stood in their way."

"It does me no injury for my neighbor to say there are twenty gods or no God."

"It is more dangerous that even a guilty person should be punished without the forms of law than that he should escape."

"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms."

"Rightful liberty is unobstructed action according to our will within limits drawn around us by the equal rights of others. I do not add 'within the limits of the law' because law is often but the tyrant's will, and always so when it violates the rights of the individual."

"Taste cannot be controlled by law."

"The democracy will cease to exist when you take away from those who are willing to work and give to those who would not."

"The spirit of resistance to government is so valuable on certain occasions that I wish it to be always kept alive."

"The strongest reason for the people to retain the right to keep and bear arms is, as a last resort, to protect themselves against tyranny in government."

"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants."

Sounds like TJ was a bit of a libertarian.
For those of you who actually read that, thank you and I hope that this helps explain why most Americans hold the founding fathers in high regard. A lot of them do so without understanding why, but that's the joy of uneducation.