PC Cooling Whats Best?

[FireFoxConn]

Ok so Im new here but i've been moding cases and electronics for a while... I'm only 16 but I started at 10 thanks to my dad... I'm working on a Borg Cube case With an ABIT SL6 Mobo and two 40 gig hdds. I want to put my two Nvidia Gforce 4000MX video cards in with a TV tuner PCI card and a USB 2.0 PCI Card. It runs on a 1 GHZ pentium III and 3 PC133 256mb sdram. I know this is kinda out of date but it's cheaper then getting the latest stuff. But i need to find out what the best way of cooling it would be. Here's the upload on the research I found: A large amount of fans could put a load on the psu but if you balance it with a few fans with good rpm you could survive. Then there is the water cooled technique. But that can get expensive. and then there was an article on this new liquid that remains at a cold temp and does not carry electrical current, you can submerge your mobo and hdds in this liquid and it will not corode or damage any electronics. but again, that is really expensive. What should i do? :think:

FireFoxConn a.k.a Evil Genis:evil:

[Airbozo]

Assimilate the fans. You can get different sizes and speeds for airflow and noise.

[ajmilton]

Ok so Im new here but i've been moding cases and electronics for a while... I'm only 16 but I started at 10 thanks to my dad... I'm working on a Borg Cube case With an ABIT SL6 Mobo and two 40 gig hdds. I want to put my two Nvidia Gforce 4000MX video cards in with a TV tuner PCI card and a USB 2.0 PCI Card. It runs on a 1 GHZ pentium III and 3 PC133 256mb sdram. I know this is kinda out of date but it's cheaper then getting the latest stuff. But i need to find out what the best way of cooling it would be. Here's the upload on the research I found: A large amount of fans could put a load on the psu but if you balance it with a few fans with good rpm you could survive. Then there is the water cooled technique. But that can get expensive. and then there was an article on this new liquid that remains at a cold temp and does not carry electrical current, you can submerge your mobo and hdds in this liquid and it will not corode or damage any electronics. but again, that is really expensive. What should i do? :think:


well, if you do it right, you can do that with distilled water or some synthetic oil. but yeah, that's expensive. lots more expensive than, say, buying a second 200 watt power supply to drive the fans :p i saw an article on using oil to cool a pc ... think it was on tom's hardware, but i'm not sure now

i'd guess that if you're interested in seriously cooling that standard watercooling is probably the best bet ...


Assimilate the fans. You can get different sizes and speeds for airflow and noise.

hee hee. borg cube.
"your distinctive cooling will be added to our own. resistance is futile."

[sirkillalot617]

im only 15 and wanted watercooling so im making it myself from copper pipe max it should cost me 50 pound inclueding the pump

[AKA_RA]

and then there was an article on this new liquid that remains at a cold temp and does not carry electrical current, you can submerge your mobo and hdds in this liquid and it will not corode or damage any electronics. but again, that is really expensive. What should i do? :think:

FireFoxConn a.k.a Evil Genis:evil:

theres dielectric grease but it doesnt stay cold, nothing will. amd are you sure they submerge a HDD, sounds like it would die instantly seeing as how there are moving parts inside and there are actually areas where liquid could flow in.

[ajmilton]

if it's nonconductive and doesn't impede the movement, i don't know why it would kill a HD.
you do bring up a good point - any cooling system is going to require something to radiate the heat that it picks up, somewhere. otherwise you're ****in with some pretty solid laws of physics :P

[Omega]

if it's nonconductive and doesn't impede the movement, i don't know why it would kill a HD.
you do bring up a good point - any cooling system is going to require something to radiate the heat that it picks up, somewhere. otherwise you're ****in with some pretty solid laws of physics :P

There's the problem -- It will impede the movement. Water is denser then air, 'tis a fact. Even if you use de-ionized water, It's non-conductive, but still denser. And it'll probably mess up the drive needle and how it reads, as well.


Submerged Optical or Hard drives isn't a good idea. At all. It is, however, a good concept...

[Omega]

if it's nonconductive and doesn't impede the movement, i don't know why it would kill a HD.
you do bring up a good point - any cooling system is going to require something to radiate the heat that it picks up, somewhere. otherwise you're ****in with some pretty solid laws of physics :P

It's impossible, as far as we know, to cool any other way. Even if you have Liquid N, it's still radiating the heat (or rather, since Liquid N tends to evaporate quickly, it would evaporate quicker due to the extra heat.)

[AKA_RA]

its dissipation. the returning of natural balance basically. hot to cold and vice versa until both surfaces are the same temp. if you introduce a heat source, lets say an Intel Pentium 4 CPU, you need to, in turn, provide proper heat dissipation, using a medium of some sort, water/air/etc. active cooling implies circulating the medium via fan/pump. for my next trick, i shall attempt to employ said tactics in my current project without introducing a completely separate type of "element," and thus far, my only true adversary, Fire. Ug, Me no like electrical fires.

[nil8]

What you're talking about is immersion cooling. I have tried my hand on it with an old 500 mhz k6-2 and a fishtank and all I have to say is that it is REALLY MESSY. You have to have a good airtight seal or else after a few weeks you get impurities in your oil. Dead bugs, dust and hair don't mix well with computers dunked in oil.

Another problem is what can't be submersed easily. The power supply, hard drive, and optical drives can't be submersed. They will stop working.

Another concern is hookups. You have to extend the keyboard, mouse, usb, video, etc hookups from the submersed mobo to a level where you can hook them up without problems.

There's also the matter of moving the oil around so you don't create hotspots. Air is a fluid as well and the same concepts work for air as most liquids. Dissipation can occur, and a moving fan helps.

Water cooling is much better for large cases or open designs where if there is a problem, you can get to it easily and quickly. It's all about spotting the problems before they fry equipment.

Your best bet is to design it with a couple of 120 mm fans in mind. They're low db and they shouldn't suck up enough power to cause problems. Plus, running the hardware you are, there shouldn't be that much heat with a nior amount of thought put into ventilation.

Whatever you choose, good luck and I can't wait to see it in the worklogs.

[FireFoxConn]

theres dielectric grease but it doesnt stay cold, nothing will. amd are you sure they submerge a HDD, sounds like it would die instantly seeing as how there are moving parts inside and there are actually areas where liquid could flow in.

Well from what i read it is more like a gel and is a blueish color. it does stay cold by acting like a heat sink and transfering heat to the coolest areas. basic heat transfer. but it doesn't actually come in contact with the hdd's moving parts. the article also suggests that a seal be placed around the seam of the hard drive so that no leaks accure. again this is kinda iffy on the submerged gel cooling because its expiremental.

[FireFoxConn]

What you're talking about is immersion cooling. I have tried my hand on it with an old 500 mhz k6-2 and a fishtank and all I have to say is that it is REALLY MESSY. You have to have a good airtight seal or else after a few weeks you get impurities in your oil. Dead bugs, dust and hair don't mix well with computers dunked in oil.

Another problem is what can't be submersed easily. The power supply, hard drive, and optical drives can't be submersed. They will stop working.

Another concern is hookups. You have to extend the keyboard, mouse, usb, video, etc hookups from the submersed mobo to a level where you can hook them up without problems.

There's also the matter of moving the oil around so you don't create hotspots. Air is a fluid as well and the same concepts work for air as most liquids. Dissipation can occur, and a moving fan helps.

Water cooling is much better for large cases or open designs where if there is a problem, you can get to it easily and quickly. It's all about spotting the problems before they fry equipment.

Your best bet is to design it with a couple of 120 mm fans in mind. They're low db and they shouldn't suck up enough power to cause problems. Plus, running the hardware you are, there shouldn't be that much heat with a nior amount of thought put into ventilation.

Whatever you choose, good luck and I can't wait to see it in the worklogs.

This does make alot of sense. The research iv'e done suggests that a water cooled tower with combined "direct contact thermal liquid" and air cooling is the best bet for this project. You are right however on the fact that this system should not create a lot of heat. but because of the extended load i intend to put on it and the super cunductor theory i'm introducing i need to have a pretty cold case. i've found that system performance can be extended by 100-900 LCM (lines of command a minute) that is a pretty nice boost in performance. so the borg cube project will introduce the super conductor theory into the design. lowering the temperature to just above min operating temp for the cpu and hdds will be a chore because it is around 45*F or maybe lower. I might end up ditching the plan if it becomes too extravigant. I will be starting a work log pretty soon so keep in touch.

[FireFoxConn]

I just started my work log at the work in progress forum.
The Borg Cube asimilation will comense

I am such a geek:twisted:
If you have any further cooling ideas direct them to my inbox:glasses:
THNX

[ownaginatious]

I know a harddrive can survive after being submerged in water, even if it was on at the time. My dad's studio flooded in the basement from a water main burst last february, and all the computers died, but most of the HDs still worked. I wouldn't suggest putting it in that "naturally cool" liquid though for the reason that if you leave it in there long enough, there is a great chance that the seal will brake eventually under the pressure of the fluid and will f up the inside.

[Ronyx]

you could submerge in liquid ethanol. that would work fine.... if you can get your hands on some of the stuff lolz.

[intergalacticman]

umm it is impossible to seal up the holes in a hard drive. they are there on purpose because a either really high or really low pressure is created when the disks are spinning at high rpm. i heard this somewhere and if anyone knows more about this please expand.

i think submerging everything in liquid nitrogen is ftw:banana:

[Ronyx]

Liquid nitrogen will just freeze your components. If you want to take overclocking and cooling to the extreme:

liquid nitrogen for watercooling
liquid ethanol for submerging

[AKA_RA]

you know, there are already proven techniques with all those methods, except the ethanol. i honestly would not put electronics into something that could potentially light me on fire...maybe its just me, but i like my face regular, not extra crispy.

[nil8]

Extreme cooling has to be extremely controlled or else you are just causing a mess. Submersion into liquid nitrogen? No. Hell no.

As for ethanol, I'm with AKA on this one. Tread lightly.

[Ronyx]

Don't get me wrong, it's not everyday that you see someone submerging their comp in liquid ethanol but it does work lolz =P

[Custom]

umm it is impossible to seal up the holes in a hard drive. they are there on purpose because a either really high or really low pressure is created when the disks are spinning at high rpm. i heard this somewhere and if anyone knows more about this please expand.

i think submerging everything in liquid nitrogen is ftw:banana:

I would have to disagree with liquid nitrogen, liquid helium has a boiling point of -459.7°F (-272.2°C, 0°K)

[usely340]

try working in aircondition area

[tybrenis]

What if you built a CO2 condensing kinda rig?

When CO2 becomes a gas quickly, it turns liquid again. So, say you had a bottle of co2 shooting out fast enough that it was extremely cold, due to it being liquid. Then, as it became a gas, it would condense again into a liquid, in turn then be collected and recycled through the system.

I know that is ridiculously confusing. I'm just thinking about paintball guns - when you shoot one with co2 quickly, it starts freezing up the gun. What if you put that in practice with a collection system kinda thing?

[Omega]

What if you built a CO2 condensing kinda rig?

When CO2 becomes a gas quickly, it turns liquid again. So, say you had a bottle of co2 shooting out fast enough that it was extremely cold, due to it being liquid. Then, as it became a gas, it would condense again into a liquid, in turn then be collected and recycled through the system.

I know that is ridiculously confusing. I'm just thinking about paintball guns - when you shoot one with co2 quickly, it starts freezing up the gun. What if you put that in practice with a collection system kinda thing?

That would be a good idea, but only if the CO2 bursts were controlled. Now, for a watercooling radiator to have these....

[UserX]

Theyve been using CO2 in oil well applications. Its wild how it goes from gas to liquid!